Which book is the best in lines (less juices) and payout (credibility and speed)?

[Netprofit]

I use BetFair, 5Dimes and Bookmaker but would like to add a couple more. Appreciate advice on this as these 2 factors are very important to me:

less costly lines - i think 5Dimes is the best but which is second best?

payout - these SBR rated ones like Greeks, Diamond, Pinnacle, they are rated highly but i want to know real experience from those of you.

[jgilmartin]

Pinnacle should be on your list for sure.

[Hareeba!]

Pinnacle is unquestionably the best allround bookmaker in the world. Has to be the #1 choice for any serious punter.
Betfair is by far and away the #1 Exchange.
Then it comes down to what you bet on.
If soccer, you should add SBO and 188 to your arsenal.
If US sports add Matchbook exchange.
If tennis, you might get some value out of Greek too.
imho you can dispense with 5Dimes and Bookmaker if you have the above as they offer nothing extra.
With those I've named you have the best odds available and fast and free payouts from all in my experience.

[Santo]

I agree with H except that 5Dimes reduced lines are worth keeping around, they'll sometimes be best price if you can (still) use them.

[lukahh]

yes. defenitely open account @ pinnacle.
lowest juice lines around, and instant payout (1 free per month). they used to have opening bonus, but have since figured they are competitive without it.

[HedgeHog]

5-Dimes and MatchBook are by far my two best Books for Football. Low juice, quick payouts and they can transfer to one another.

PS I agree with Pinny, but they are not an option for me anymore.

[pjesnik24]

take pinnacle, 188bet, 12bet and sbobet if you are betting soccer

[Netprofit]

Thank you all for all the input !!

[Fishhead]

MATCHBOOK

I can't imagine anyone and everyone not having an account with Matchbook

Complete no-brainer

[mtneer1212]

I think it would be hard to go wrong with pinnacle, 5dimes, or heritage --- you could also consider matchbook, betonline (low juice option) or betjam (-105 on fri evenings)

[gman2114]

DSI for horse betting.

[DBurton81]

betjam or thegreek

[Dr.Gonzo]

DSI for horse betting.

He has betfair dude. Why would he want to waste his time with DSI betting the ponies?

[Odessa]

MATCHBOOK

I can't imagine anyone and everyone not having an account with Matchbook

Complete no-brainer

I still can't understand what attraction other sportbooks offer? Is it bonuses or parlays?

[Hareeba!]

I still can't understand what attraction other sportbooks offer? Is it bonuses or parlays?

he can use Betfair and Pinnacle!! ... a myriad of other betting options

[vyomguy]

Pinnacle.

[wrongturn]

I still can't understand what attraction other sportbooks offer? Is it bonuses or parlays?

Beside the obvious bonuses and parlays, there are also teasers, more bet options, more sports, also sometimes you get better price at other books if you price in MB's commission.

[wrongturn]

I use BetFair, 5Dimes and Bookmaker but would like to add a couple more. Appreciate advice on this as these 2 factors are very important to me:

less costly lines - i think 5Dimes is the best but which is second best?

payout - these SBR rated ones like Greeks, Diamond, Pinnacle, they are rated highly but i want to know real experience from those of you.

Looking at the price of your posted MLB bets, often you could do better at Matchbook. So definitely add MB for baseball, or all big American sports for that matter.

[Chuck Sims]

Matchbook

Matchbook NFL sides, totals, & moneylines are the lowest juice by far.

[jgilmartin]

I still can't understand what attraction other sportbooks offer? Is it bonuses or parlays?

Matchbook's lines are very good close to the start of the game, however they are a lot less appealing earlier in the day / the day before.

[Max009]

I still can't understand what attraction other sportbooks offer? Is it bonuses or parlays?

If you are a serious handicapper you need early lines. MB is very competitive late...basically nothing early. Pinnacle defines a sharp player as someone who consistently beats the closing line...hard to do that betting 5 minutes before the game starts. Also, sharp players often like smaller markets which MB usually does not have much liquidity in. MB has its place in my opinion but just as part of your overall arsenal. In my opinion if you are in the US you need 4 books to cover all options (all sports, parlays, and teasers)......Bet Phoenix, Matchbook, 5 Dimes and Parlaymakers.....some combination of those 4 will give you the best possible line with high limits about 99% of the time. You can use GP with all 4 so you have your own built in book to book transfer method.

[vyomguy]

If you are a serious handicapper you need early lines. MB is very competitive late...basically nothing early. Pinnacle defines a sharp player as someone who consistently beats the closing line...hard to do that betting 5 minutes before the game starts. Also, sharp players often like smaller markets which MB usually does not have much liquidity in. MB has its place in my opinion but just as part of your overall arsenal. In my opinion if you are in the US you need 4 books to cover all options (all sports, parlays, and teasers)......Bet Phoenix, Matchbook, 5 Dimes and Parlaymakers.....some combination of those 4 will give you the best possible line with high limits about 99% of the time. You can use GP with all 4 so you have your own built in book to book transfer method.

Max...please tell me you are not serious about bet phoenix and 5dimes...both are scam books which stiff you and cut your limits when you win. If you are advertising those books, I am bit skeptical of maintaining account in your book.

[Max009]

Max...please tell me you are not serious about bet phoenix and 5dimes...both are scam books which stiff you and cut your limits when you win. If you are advertising those books, I am bit skeptical of maintaining account in your book.

I am not advertising those other books. That is just based on what I read and what they have to offer. 5Dimes does have the reputation of lowering limits but they do offer low juice although at low limits ($500) and I have not heard of 5 Dimes being a scam book so that would be news to me. Bet Phoenix offers low juice and higher limits but they have recently had a documented problem with slow paying. Not sure about BP's rep is for cutting limits. MB is great for late wagers but lack early options and variety of smaller markets and they have some unusual credit exposure for an exchange. Parlaymakers has for the US facing market high limits, excellent pricing (same as Pinnacle), won't cut limits and instant payout back to the ewallet but is newer than these other options. For low juice outs I think those four are the best options for US customers. Each have a drawback.

Other books like the Greek and Bookmaker are well established but with the higher juice you are paying a premium to play there. You could probably add Bet Jamaica to the mix for Baseball among the low juice options.

[Odessa]

If you are a serious handicapper you need early lines. MB is very competitive late...basically nothing early. Pinnacle defines a sharp player as someone who consistently beats the closing line...hard to do that betting 5 minutes before the game starts. Also, sharp players often like smaller markets which MB usually does not have much liquidity in. MB has its place in my opinion but just as part of your overall arsenal. In my opinion if you are in the US you need 4 books to cover all options (all sports, parlays, and teasers)......Bet Phoenix, Matchbook, 5 Dimes and Parlaymakers.....some combination of those 4 will give you the best possible line with high limits about 99% of the time. You can use GP with all 4 so you have your own built in book to book transfer method.

From Pinnacle web site: http://www.pinnaclesports.com/bettin...s/golden-rules
Essential Betting Tips Top 10 Gambler’s Resolutions
1. Get The Best Price
If you make only one NFL resolution this season, promise yourself to ALWAYS obtain the best available price. PinnacleSports.com offers -104 style pricing on NFL sides, saving bettors up to 60% of the juice, or vigorish, that other books charge.

A player has to win close to 53% of their bets just to break even at traditional -110 pricing offered by other sportsbooks. At a low juice sports book like PinnacleSports.com, you only need to win just 51% of your plays to break even.

Now, compare Pinny 5% juice to MB 1%.

Secondly, from Ted Sevransky:

FIVE SECRETS OF SHARP BETTORS

Make more straight bets and fewer parlays

Professional bettors make the vast majority of their bets as straight bets, not as parlays. For amateurs, the number is closer to 50:50, and there are many, many amateurs who rarely straight bet at all. But the straight bet is the pro’s bread and butter.

Professionals are satisfied with the return on investment from a 3-2 day, or a 12-8 week. They are in it for the long haul, not always looking for the quick score that parlays provide. Amateurs are often lured by the big paydays that winning parlays provide, conveniently forgetting that a season largely consisting of steady 2-1 type days will be even more profitable than the big hits that parlays provide even in a good overall season

[Max009]

From Pinnacle web site: http://www.pinnaclesports.com/bettin...s/golden-rules
Essential Betting Tips Top 10 Gambler’s Resolutions
1. Get The Best Price
If you make only one NFL resolution this season, promise yourself to ALWAYS obtain the best available price. PinnacleSports.com offers -104 style pricing on NFL sides, saving bettors up to 60% of the juice, or vigorish, that other books charge.

A player has to win close to 53% of their bets just to break even at traditional -110 pricing offered by other sportsbooks. At a low juice sports book like PinnacleSports.com, you only need to win just 51% of your plays to break even.

Now, compare Pinny 5% juice to MB 1%.

Secondly, from Ted Sevransky:

FIVE SECRETS OF SHARP BETTORS

Make more straight bets and fewer parlays

Professional bettors make the vast majority of their bets as straight bets, not as parlays. For amateurs, the number is closer to 50:50, and there are many, many amateurs who rarely straight bet at all. But the straight bet is the pro’s bread and butter.

Professionals are satisfied with the return on investment from a 3-2 day, or a 12-8 week. They are in it for the long haul, not always looking for the quick score that parlays provide. Amateurs are often lured by the big paydays that winning parlays provide, conveniently forgetting that a season largely consisting of steady 2-1 type days will be even more profitable than the big hits that parlays provide even in a good overall season

Yes, and the best price may very well be the early line. Getting the line early for most pros is often more important than what the juice is ten minutes before the game starts. There is a reason Pinny will let you bet 100k 20 minutes before the game starts and only 2k when the line comes out. I am not saying MB isn't valuable but you are needless limiting yourself if you dont have other low juice options that offer early lines. Not to mention a lot of smaller sports or variety MB doesn't even have.

[Odessa]

Yes, and the best price may very well be the early line. Getting the line early for most pros is often more important than what the juice is ten minutes before the game starts. There is a reason Pinny will let you bet 100k 20 minutes before the game starts and only 2k when the line comes out. I am not saying MB isn't valuable but you are needless limiting yourself if you dont have other low juice options that offer early lines. Not to mention a lot of smaller sports or variety MB doesn't even have.

My strategy is to determine a winner of the game and unfortunately it takes time for me. And if they line moved against me from +125 down to +120 it's insignificant to me in the long run when I have a winner. And to determine a winner in MLB I need to know posted starting line ups. Secondly, what are the guarantee that early line is the best? Did you noticed how line moves after the stating line ups are announced? That's when REAL money start flowing.

[Max009]

My strategy is to determine a winner of the game and unfortunately it takes time for me. And if they line moved against me from +125 down to +120 it's insignificant to me in the long run when I have a winner. And to determine a winner in MLB I need to know posted starting line ups. Secondly, what are the guarantee that early line is the best? Did you noticed how line moves after the stating line ups are announced? That's when REAL money start flowing.

The point about early lines is exactly what you said...that they are often not the best which means that you might see a line that you think should be -220 and it is -180. The closing line might end up being -200 and the difference between the MB price and Parlaymakers price at closing might be MB -197 and Parlaymakers -200. So if you bet the early line that would have been much more significant than the smaller difference at closing. I don't think it has to be or should be an either or answer for anyone. Having the right outs that get you the best price when you are ready to make the wager I think is the best strategy.

[Fishhead]

If one doesnt have a MB account they are pretty much just betting as a hobby.

[Netprofit]

I am really glad that this thread is turning out to be one where useful discussions are made to improve our chances to make a profit by using the right book and having the right strategy about when to make a bet etc.

Now, I would like to start a new thread under the think tank section along this line with another question which I think is important to make us a winner in this challenging business.

The timing of making a play is something very relevant to me personally. A signaificant part of my betting strategy relies on line movement and consensus. Now since I am almost all the time making a play against the consensus especially taking into account reverse line movement (or no play for me if my conclusion is that the majority will win), almost all the time I make my play at the last minute and on the line which has moved against me (the books discourage the play by paying out less).

Now, my question is, I believe I have the winning strategy but I am taking the worst line at the last minute all the time. Is there a way out of this?