EU presses U.S. to change Internet gambling law

[bigboydan]

They can express their views all they want too, but the U.S. will never change it's views on this matter until a Dem wins the presidency (hopefully 2008).

EU presses U.S. to change Internet gambling law

Reuters
Thursday November 8 2007

By Doug Palmer

WASHINGTON, Nov 8 (Reuters) - The United States must change an Internet gambling law that discriminates against European companies by preventing them from offering services in the U.S. market, the European Union's top trade official said on Thursday.
"What we need to see is a change in U.S. legislation that removes that discrimination against EU operators," EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson told reporters before heading to Capitol Hill to discuss the issue with U.S. lawmakers.
"It's not in the interest of American consumers to have good responsible competitors in this market excluded by regulatory mechanisms."
The European Union and other trading partners have been in compensation talks with the United States over Washington's decision to retroactively remove gambling services from the market-opening commitments it made as part of the 1994 Uruguay Round world trade agreement.
The United States took that step after the World Trade Organization ruled in a case brought by the tiny Caribbean nation Antigua and Barbuda.
The U.S. Congress has since passed a broader online gambling ban.
EU-based gambling firms have urged the bloc to seek as much as $100 billion in compensation for being shut out of the U.S. market.
"When a member of the WTO defaults on its commitments, compensation is due. That's the case of online gambling," Mandelson said.
"We're in talks about the magnitude of that compensation. I think what we're asking for is reasonable and realistic. The numbers aren't quite as large as has been advertised, but they need to be substantial."
Mandelson said he would talk on Thursday with Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House of Representatives Financial Services Committee, about his bill to roll back the online gambling ban.
"I think he takes a fair-minded, a common sense, approach to this and we look forward to that being effective legislation," Mandelson said.
"We're not telling the United States how to regulate this industry. That's not for us to do. All we're saying is, however you choose to regulate, don't discriminate against non-American operators." (Editing by John O'Callaghan)

[robzilla]

I dont see why European sites dont just let americans as members. They might be helping american citizens break laws but so what? What is America gonna do? Put sanctions on a country for allowing americans to gamble?

I say show America who's boss and that Europe, Canada and the off shore gaming community wont be pushed around.

Technically the betting, poker or whatever is taking place where the site is located, not in the USA anyways. Shouldnt the responsibility be on the american citizen to obey the laws? not the gaming company.

[robzilla]

We need some rosa parks of online gambling to stand up to the great dictator Barbara Bush!

[jolub]

I wish americans were welcome at European sites. It would sure beat the hell out of playing, and getting ripped off, in Central America.

[robzilla]

Riot in the streets dude. get all your gamblers together and knock down the washington monument or something.

We Canadians burned down your white house in 1867 i think it was. Give it a shot.

I even created in America SUCKS thread the other day. People I thought I was wrong. I dont understand the reasoning. Your country takes away your right to gamble and you still stand behind it? Canada embraces gambling... I can even go to the corner store and play a 3-6 game parlay if i want.

[Seattle Slew]

Why would this matter? You think if Hillary or Obama are in the White House, the U.S. will alter course on its anti-gambling stance? I don't see that regardless of who is president.

They can express their views all they want too, but the U.S. will never change it's views on this matter until a Dem wins the presidency (hopefully 2008).

[jon13009]

Once the UIEGAlaw was passed, I don't see any party willing to repeal the IUEGA. The law was passed under the most suspect of circumstances (attached to a rider of an anti-terrorism bill at 4am so few legislators had any real time to read it), and what party in their right mind would wan to support a bill supporting on line sports betting bill.

The sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB) will spend whatever it takes to stop on-line sportsbetting because it threatens the integrity of their respective sports (regardless of the popularity gambling/fantasy leagues brings to the sport.)

So far popular efforts to legalize on-line poker through the PPA have done little towards allowing on-line sports betting, and the PPA would support throwing on-line sports betting into the fire (see the "opt-out" clauses that would prohibit internet sports-betting in many states through such efforts by the Frank on-line gambling proposal.)

"The NFL and Major League Baseball have been among the loudest in calling for a ban on Internet gambling. The leagues lobbied hard for the UIGEA while working to ensure that the bill included exceptions for fantasy sports leagues. The IGREA allows leagues to decide whether licensed sportsbooks can offer odds on their games. If the league decides against allowing bets on its contests (and it is very likely that all the major sports leagues and the NCAA would do so), then licensed sportsbooks must abide by that decision or they will lose their license."

Source:

http://aarontodd.casinocitytimes.com/articles/34305.html

[louis]

You know it is just an embarrasment to the world, to represent ourselves as leaders of "demoracy" and "freedom". There is no more freedom in this country. You can go to whatever church/synagogue/mosque you want, but that's about it. The U.S. is the only country that sportsbooks find themselves forced to avoid. The U.S. has a higher percentage of its citizens in jail than any other nation in the world. I am seriously thinking of moving out of here. Places like Costa Rica and Russia have A LOT more freedom than the United States. Canada may allow online gaming, but also has a lot of rules, laws, and lack of freedom in their own way. One of the most basic concepts of freedom is that you own the money that you earn. Not only are we taxed to death, we are now told what we can and can not spend our income on. If people want to spend money on gaming, then that is their problem, not mine.

[noyb]

I dont see why European sites dont just let americans as members. They might be helping american citizens break laws but so what? What is America gonna do? Put sanctions on a country for allowing americans to gamble?

How about arresting the management of these sites?
It's not so difficult to imagine these bigshots of online gaming firms actually would like to travel to other countries without looking over their shoulders every time a policecar comes driving by.
It's not just about not visiting the US anymore, a boss of a Swedish firm was arrested in the Netherlands on a French arrest-warrant. This only shows these guys, if they allow US players, are not safe anywhere anymore; I would do the same if I were them.

[capitalist pig]

[QUOTE=robzilla;405896]I dont see why European sites dont just let americans as members. They might be helping american citizens break laws but so what? What is America gonna do? Put sanctions on a country for allowing americans to gamble?

So by that reasoning, if Igla SA-18s are legal to own in XYZ country in Africa, then US or Canadian or European citizens should be able to buy and have them shipped to their respective home country, regardless of the home countries law being broken.

later

[robzilla]

You know it is just an embarrasment to the world, to represent ourselves as leaders of "demoracy" and "freedom". There is no more freedom in this country. You can go to whatever church/synagogue/mosque you want, but that's about it. The U.S. is the only country that sportsbooks find themselves forced to avoid. The U.S. has a higher percentage of its citizens in jail than any other nation in the world. I am seriously thinking of moving out of here. Places like Costa Rica and Russia have A LOT more freedom than the United States. Canada may allow online gaming, but also has a lot of rules, laws, and lack of freedom in their own way. One of the most basic concepts of freedom is that you own the money that you earn. Not only are we taxed to death, we are now told what we can and can not spend our income on. If people want to spend money on gaming, then that is their problem, not mine.

You cant be serious! Canadians arent taxed to death. You have to think about what that pays for me.

-Heathcare. I dont have to have health care insurance or anything. My city for example is leading the world in sports medicine and cancer research. Watch the movie SICKO.
-An environment that is far superior to the US. When I travel to the USA i feel like im going back in time. The roads are shit.

i could go on and on but im too tired.

[robzilla]

[QUOTE=capitalist pig;406209]

I dont see why European sites dont just let americans as members. They might be helping american citizens break laws but so what? What is America gonna do? Put sanctions on a country for allowing americans to gamble?

So by that reasoning, if Igla SA-18s are legal to own in XYZ country in Africa, then US or Canadian or European citizens should be able to buy and have them shipped to their respective home country, regardless of the home countries law being broken.

later

so? in Michigan You may not swear in front of women and children. it is actually illegal. so if you are a kid and reading this...fuk you ya little sh!t ! See i just broke a law. pwned.

[Rollins08]

The people on this board are out of touch with the real world. They spend to much time on line gambling. Normal people look down on gambling and gamblers, there is not push to legalize online gambling. The majority of the population doesn't want it or doesn't care about it. The truth is that gambling is NOT a good thing to do all the time, it is a fun activity. Very few people make money at it, it rips families apart and besides a few outcasts, the population doesn't want it. Normal people go to AC or vegas, maybe bet a few horce races and lose a few bucks. The people on this forum lose tons of money they don't have, and go broke.

[WileOut]

very true Rollins.

Robzilla, you sound like a you have a little teenage rebellion still left in you. How old are you? The truth of the matter is that the US is probably the world leader in personal freedoms. No they dont like online gambling but that is just a small fish in the ocean of personal freedoms. And in time believe me, online gambling will be legal in america.


robzilla The US is and has been the greatest economic and military power in history. There are always things to point out like the weakness of the dollar etc., but these things always correct themselves. Everything runs in a cycle. Its called capitalism.

Canada could not fight its own war. Canada does not call any shots in the international arena, they have no power. The power Canada has comes from being a close friend with the US. Much of Canadas economic prowess comes from being so close to America. If someone were to attack Canada (which would never happen simply because of the presence of the US), they could not defend themselves. America would have to do it for them. At best, Canada is Americas little infant sister.

louis Russia is a communist nation. That ends the debate about whos better, the US or russia. In russia, if you made any money gambling or any other way you would not be able to keep it because the government would take it from you. Why do you think the soviet union collapsed? Corrupt communism.

[tblues2005]

Rollins,

I do disagree there is some players that don't wager a lot here and I am one of them, I enjoy it but I like to have fun doing it but I don't wager hundreds and thousands at a time, you can't say that everyone here is in that category. I just think it is a personal decision on this matter not the governments decision, that if you want to gamble online, I thought the Republicans we for less government, not in this case they aren't. I agree that it does tear apart families if gambling is a big problem, but as far as some they would rather do it at home than have to spend money to travel somewhere to do it or depend on a dishonest bookie that don't want to pay when you win, that has happened to me before. I would rather trust Bet Jamaica or TheGreek with my money than some dishonest bookie that may get caught around here than I would never see my payoff from him.

[capitalist pig]

The people on this board are out of touch with the real world. They spend to much time on line gambling. Normal people look down on gambling and gamblers, there is not push to legalize online gambling. The majority of the population doesn't want it or doesn't care about it. The truth is that gambling is NOT a good thing to do all the time, it is a fun activity. Very few people make money at it, it rips families apart and besides a few outcasts, the population doesn't want it. Normal people go to AC or vegas, maybe bet a few horce races and lose a few bucks. The people on this forum lose tons of money they don't have, and go broke.

I think you pretty much summed up the whole deal there, especially the part about no one is pushing to legalize online gambling, and I doubt anyone is going to. I dont think it matters who the next pres is either, none of them will put ol gambling on the top list of things to get done.

Im going to Biloxi for a few nights to throw some $ away like normal folks. I like to wager on sports online, but if I couldnt ever do it again, for whatever reason, my life would go on without missing a beat.

later

[Rollins08]

Rollins,

I do disagree there is some players that don't wager a lot here and I am one of them, I enjoy it but I like to have fun doing it but I don't wager hundreds and thousands at a time, you can't say that everyone here is in that category. I just think it is a personal decision on this matter not the governments decision, that if you want to gamble online, I thought the Republicans we for less government, not in this case they aren't. I agree that it does tear apart families if gambling is a big problem, but as far as some they would rather do it at home than have to spend money to travel somewhere to do it or depend on a dishonest bookie that don't want to pay when you win, that has happened to me before. I would rather trust Bet Jamaica or TheGreek with my money than some dishonest bookie that may get caught around here than I would never see my payoff from him.

If you don't wager hundreds and thousands at a time than you shouldn't be having problems right now. I know I'm not. There are plenty of books that are great for casual gamblers and the risk isn't that great because of couse because your not dealing with huge amounts of money. The gambling ban really hurts big time players. If the US legalized gambling than they would tax it and that would hurt the casual gambler. Your better off right now.

[Jamie_UK]

The people on this board are out of touch with the real world. They spend to much time on line gambling. Normal people look down on gambling and gamblers, there is not push to legalize online gambling. The majority of the population doesn't want it or doesn't care about it. The truth is that gambling is NOT a good thing to do all the time, it is a fun activity. Very few people make money at it, it rips families apart and besides a few outcasts, the population doesn't want it. Normal people go to AC or vegas, maybe bet a few horce races and lose a few bucks. The people on this forum lose tons of money they don't have, and go broke.

what a load of "nanny state" rubbish , a man should have the freedom to have a bet on his team with the money that he earns, your argument is the same as banning beer because some people become alcoholics, you are talking total shit.

Anyway , you should all buy an umbrella and move to the UK, we are to gambling what Holland is to weed.

[Rollins08]

[QUOTE=Jamie_UK;406339]what a load of "nanny state" rubbish , a man should have the freedom to have a bet on his team with the money that he earns, your argument is the same as banning beer because some people become alcoholics, you are talking total shit.
QUOTE]

Jamie,
I'm all for online gambling, I'm not against it. What I'm saying though is true. There is no big push for legalized gambling in the US, most people aren't in favor of online gambling or don't care about it, and gambling does ruin families. You can argue these all you want, but they are true.

Beer is different because the majority of the people want it, if the people speak loud enough the government will listen or you have the freedom to elect new officials. We could try and get JJ as president to legalize gambling and that is our right, but he wouldn't win. I would think you would know how this works being from the UK.

[Jamie_UK]

Alcoholism runs in families as well, its not a case for prohibition, neither is problem gambling a case for gambling prohibition.

Also the hypocrisies astounds me, take your point about problem gaming and then consider if you are a Nevada resident or you live near Atlantic city or a river boat, or an Indian reserve then they dont give a shit about your gambling addiction or your family ......

Do not fool yourself that this is about anything more than pleasing some right wing bible bashers and some nevada based corporations.

If America is so worried about the families of problem gamblers as you say, then ban gambling all over the USA, there are no grey areas in this, either its fine for America or its not, but leave the "problem gambler" bull shit where it deserves to be.

[noyb]

robzilla The US is and has been the greatest economic and military power in history. There are always things to point out like the weakness of the dollar etc., but these things always correct themselves. Everything runs in a cycle. Its called capitalism.

Canada could not fight its own war. Canada does not call any shots in the international arena, they have no power. The power Canada has comes from being a close friend with the US. Much of Canadas economic prowess comes from being so close to America. If someone were to attack Canada (which would never happen simply because of the presence of the US), they could not defend themselves. America would have to do it for them. At best, Canada is Americas little infant sister.

louis Russia is a communist nation. That ends the debate about whos better, the US or russia. In russia, if you made any money gambling or any other way you would not be able to keep it because the government would take it from you. Why do you think the soviet union collapsed? Corrupt communism.

funny stuff. this kind of language is exactly what makes other countries around the world dislike the US so much.

[Rollins08]

None of what you says changes that fact that there is no push in America to legalize gambling. It is already against the law to do, so there would need to be a large amount of people who want it overturned. That is not happening.

I'm not saying that the ban is the right thing, or that the ban has anything to do with problem gamblers. I'm simply saying that it will not be overturned. Please try and understand my post this time.

[Jamie_UK]

funny stuff. this kind of language is exactly what makes other countries around the world dislike the US so much.

Its odd how much in common some Americans have with the French , they both seriously beyond doubt or question feel they live in the best Country in the world , I think its a product of high school brainwashing, all that saluting of flags they do and singing anthems.

The fact is both America, France and almost any other Country in the civilised world have both good points and bad points, what make a good citizen is the ability to see both.

Anyway, you North Americans should all remember whose language you speak and show a bit of respect.

[Rollins08]

I think its a product of high school brainwashing, all that saluting of flags they do and singing anthems.

What do you guys do to your flag in the UK?

[Jamie_UK]

None of what you says changes that fact that there is no push in America to legalize gambling. It is already against the law to do, so there would need to be a large amount of people who want it overturned. That is not happening.

I'm not saying that the ban is the right thing, or that the ban has anything to do with problem gamblers. I'm simply saying that it will not be overturned. Please try and understand my post this time.

I wasn't trying to change that fact, I was simply debunking some of the nonsense you were posting before about the public and Americas worries about the families of problem gamblers.

[Jamie_UK]

What do you guys do to your flag in the UK?

We don't go in for all that saluting the flag stuff, I think its seen as a bit crass and well........ a bit American....... if you now what I mean.

[Rollins08]

You don't think that there are a lot of American's who are worried about there families or other families gambling? Ask almost any wife if they want their husband gambling and see what answer you get. That is half the voters right there. Add that amount of people who just don't care and you wouldn't be able to overturn the ban.

[robzilla]

very true Rollins.

Robzilla, you sound like a you have a little teenage rebellion still left in you. How old are you? The truth of the matter is that the US is probably the world leader in personal freedoms. No they dont like online gambling but that is just a small fish in the ocean of personal freedoms. And in time believe me, online gambling will be legal in america.


robzilla The US is and has been the greatest economic and military power in history. There are always things to point out like the weakness of the dollar etc., but these things always correct themselves. Everything runs in a cycle. Its called capitalism.

Canada could not fight its own war. Canada does not call any shots in the international arena, they have no power. The power Canada has comes from being a close friend with the US. Much of Canadas economic prowess comes from being so close to America.

There is so much wrong with this i dont even know where to start. First of all, Canada is a commonwealth country so we are much closer to England, Austrailia etc. If England was at war with the US, Canada would be at war with the US.
The following are commonwealth countries and are allies during times of war.

Antigua and Barbuda Jamaica St Vincent and the Grenadines
Australia Kenya Samoa
The Bahamas Kiribati Seychelles

Bangladesh Lesotho Sierra Leone
Barbados Malawi Singapore
Belize Malaysia Solomon Islands
Botswana Maldives South Africa
Brunei Darussalam Malta Sri Lanka
Cameroon Mauritius Swaziland
Canada Mozambique Tonga
Cyprus Namibia Trinidad and Tobago
Dominica Nauru** Tuvalu
Fiji Islands* New Zealand Uganda
The Gambia Nigeria United Kingdom
Ghana Pakistan United Republic of Tanzania
Grenada Papua New Guinea Vanuatu
Guyana St Kitts and Nevis Zambia
India St Lucia

The population of the commonwealth of nations is. 1,921,974,000

[Rollins08]

We don't go in for all that saluting the flag stuff, I think its seen as a bit crass and well........ a bit American....... if you now what I mean.

You have the British flag in your avatar and UK in front of your name. Talk about Crass and well.....a bit British.

[Jamie_UK]

You don't think that there are a lot of American's who are worried about there families or other families gambling? Ask almost any wife if they want their husband gambling and see what answer you get. That is half the voters right there. Add that amount of people who just don't care and you wouldn't be able to overturn the ban.

Thats not the point, either your right or your wrong, if your right then there should be a nationwide gambling ban, if your wrong then gambling , be it online, in Nevada or whatever should be legal.

What your saying is Americans are worried about only the Americans who live in gambling restricted areas, and that is hypocritical .

[robzilla]

who exactly is this law protecting? The housewife worried about her husband or kid gambling? If you are going to base a country on freedom and rights and then put a limit on the freedoms...well that isnt freedom at all, is it?

[Rollins08]

Thats not the point, either your right or your wrong, if your right then there should be a nationwide gambling ban, if your wrong then gambling , be it online, in Nevada or whatever should be legal.

What your saying is Americans are worried about only the Americans who live in gambling restricted areas, and that is hypocritical .

I agree the ban is a bit hypoctitical but of course there are reasons for that, mainly the Vegas casino lobby, the right wing and taxes. That being said I don't believe this is as simple as you are making it. My point like I've said many times before is that the law will not be overturned.

[jjgold]

It will get worse, usa is going after western union next and very hard and that will end Internet gambling for good..

[Rollins08]

who exactly is this law protecting? The housewife worried about her husband or kid gambling? If you are going to base a country on freedom and rights and then put a limit on the freedoms...well that isnt freedom at all, is it?

Do you think people should be free to do whatever they want? Thats what it sounds like.

[Rollins08]

It will get worse, usa is going after western union next and very hard and that will end Internet gambling for good..

Western union is going down. How many people on this board to you think are already blackballed? The only hope to keep western union and to keep online gambling at its current state is if Hillary wins. Hopefully then the issue will be forgotten. It will never get better but it can get worse.