[WizoWizo]

Edit by SBR: We spoke with Pinnacle trading and there were some other considerations here that never ended up being fleshed out publicly. Pinnacle has a strong appetite for large wagering limits as many here know, the size of the bet has no influence on account statuses. They welcome large action. But because the OP has requested this topic to be locked and this issue is now resolved, we'll accommodate his request.

Hello,

On February 23 I placed 8 bets (a total of 33600$) on the tennis match John-Patrick Smith vs Radu Albot and won, however, my bets were cancelled and I didn’t receive my winnings. A few months ago (on November 12 2020) I placed 10 bets (7 of the bets 5600$, a total of 53224$) on the tennis match Mannarino vs Radu Albot and lost all my bets. Just 2 days before that on November 10 2020, I placed another series of bets (a total of 14700$) on the tennis match Shapovalov vs Radu Albot with odds 7 and higher (riskier) and again lost all my money. I decided to bet on that player (Radu Albot), until I finally win. For some reason, when I was losing by placing big bets, nothing was wrong or suspicious, but as soon as I won a bet, it suddenly became suspicious and my winnings were held. Before that on September 24 I placed a single bet of 30750$ and again lost it. On January 31 I placed 10,000.00$ on another tennis match and again lost and, of course, everything was okay. In the last half year I lost around 110,000.00$ and around that much 1 year earlier and everything was fine for Pinnacle, until I finally won a small part of my lost money back. This looks like a primitive attempt to steal their customer’s money. I didn’t know their reputation was worth 73000$. You can have my betting history and check what I am saying is correct. While playing I always placed tens of thousands of dollars with the same style (betting on odds 5 or higher) and as I lost, naturally, they never told me anything was suspicious. I don\'t know how to attach screenshots to this form, maybe I can send it via email? P.S. I also remembered that when I was placing big bets on November 10 and 12 the games were also suspended, but because I lost, and of course, it was favorable for Pinnacle, they saw nothing suspicious, and now they are trying to hold my money. This is really cheap and funny.
If needed I can show all the screenshots that prove what I say. I also made a video very detailed explaining the whole situation in Russian, in the video you can see my betting history. My total rollover is around $3,000,000.00 and only last year I lost around $200,000.00.

[Optional]

Did you bet live or pre-match?

What exact reason did Pinnacle provide for the cancellations?

[WizoWizo]

It was live. They said that suspicious betting activity was recognized, but as I mentioned previously, I have always placed my bets in that manner. Always placing max bets until the betting was suspended, but whenever I lost, my money was never returned, this was my first time winning (when after my bets the markets were closed) and they immediately took my money: their decision took only 3 hours to make. They didn't even do a thorough investigation (if they suspected the game not to be fair) I am sure 3 hours is not enough. I don't know how to attach screenshots of my betting history here. You can see how many times I lost tens of thousands of dollars placing bets similar to this one.

[Optional]

It was live. They said that suspicious betting activity was recognized, but as I mentioned previously, I have always placed my bets in that manner. Always placing max bets until the betting was suspended, but whenever I lost, my money was never returned, this was my first time winning (when after my bets the markets were closed) and they immediately took my money: their decision took only 3 hours to make. They didn't even do a thorough investigation (if they suspected the game not to be fair) I am sure 3 hours is not enough. I don't know how to attach screenshots of my betting history here. You can see how many times I lost tens of thousands of dollars placing bets similar to this one.

Did they cancel the bets before the match ended or afterward?

Were all 8 bets on the same thing?

What type of bet?

[WizoWizo]

After the match was ended, about 3 hours later, yes, they were on the same thing.
As I mentioned earlier, I like placing maxbets whenever I bet, and if you see my history, you can see that all my bets are maxbets and multiple times on the same thing. These are the id-s of the bets I placed 1269322699, 1269322735, 1269322757, 1269322798, 1269322892, 1269322941, 1269322968, 1269323125.
P.S. Is there any way I can upload the screenshots here or send it directly to you? I think it will provide you more information and also proof of what I am saying.

[randomuser]

Is it the first time you had won such a big sum at Pinnacle?

[WizoWizo]

No, as I always bet big bets, and sometimes I win, the sum is also always big. To be honest I never had bad experience with them, they always paid my money on time and without any problem, maybe just a few times with a delay, but that was okay.

P.S. This is the first time that I win, when after my bets the markets are being closed and betting was no longer available. Before this I always lost all my bets in such situations.

[randomuser]

Did they provide you some explanations about the cancelled bets?

[WizoWizo]

Only the one I mentioned above: that my betting activity was strange and suspicious. That's the most frustrating part, when I lost $200,000.00 with the same betting attitude it was never strange and I never received any lost money back. Also As mentioned above on the same player I lost around $68,000.00 just a few months ago placing in the same manner. The odds were even 7-10 that time. Now I am sure had I won my previous bets, I wouldn't have received my money.

[Optional]

After the match was ended, about 3 hours later, yes, they were on the same thing.
As I mentioned earlier, I like placing maxbets whenever I bet, and if you see my history, you can see that all my bets are maxbets and multiple times on the same thing. These are the id-s of the bets I placed 1269322699, 1269322735, 1269322757, 1269322798, 1269322892, 1269322941, 1269322968, 1269323125.
P.S. Is there any way I can upload the screenshots here or send it directly to you? I think it will provide you more information and also proof of what I am saying.

It sounds like it is worth asking for a manager review. If you send in one of our Sportsbook Complaint forms, we can do that for you.

[WizoWizo]

It sounds like it is worth asking for a manager review. If you send in one of our Sportsbook Complaint forms, we can do that for you.

Thank you for your time. Actually I have already sent a complaint form on03/14/2021 - 11:47:56pm, but didn't receive any reply. Just in case I completed the form once more right now. Thank you very much for your time and help, I really appreciate it.

[SportsBettor74]

This is the first complaint I have seen re: Pinnacle since I have been "active" on this forum - approx 2 years.

I really hope this is sorted out.

I consider Pinnacle to be the only A++ book of the sporting world - Pinnacle really ought to give you a complete explanation of their suspicions and also an explanation as to why the previous wagers (as per the above) were not regarded as suspicious.

I (and I am sure countless others) will be monitoring this thread with considerable interest.

[randomuser]

Did they ask you any documents? Proof of funds, etc..

[WizoWizo]

I don't remember exactly when(a few years ago), but I have sent all the necessary documents and my account is fully verified. However, I don't think cancelling those bets have anything to do with the documents/proof of funds. Even if I hadn't sent them any documents, they could have temporarily disabled my withdrawals or close my account until I send them all the documents they want. So, that can't be a reason to cancel my bets.

[WizoWizo]

This is the first complaint I have seen re: Pinnacle since I have been "active" on this forum - approx 2 years.

I really hope this is sorted out.

I consider Pinnacle to be the only A++ book of the sporting world - Pinnacle really ought to give you a complete explanation of their suspicions and also an explanation as to why the previous wagers (as per the above) were not regarded as suspicious.

I (and I am sure countless others) will be monitoring this thread with considerable interest.

To be honest it was a big surprise for me as well. As I mentioned earlier I am a customer of Pinnacle for many years, my total rollover reaches a few millions of dollars and I have never had a problem with them, always placing big amounts of bets (unfortunately, losing most of them).
In the video above you can see the whole story fully explained. It is in Russian, but my betting history for the last 6 months is visible and you can see that what I am saying is true.

[SportsBettor74]

To be honest it was a big surprise for me as well. As I mentioned earlier I am a customer of Pinnacle for many years, my total rollover reaches a few millions of dollars and I have never had a problem with them, always placing big amounts of bets (unfortunately, losing most of them).
In the video above you can see the whole story fully explained. It is in Russian, but my betting history for the last 6 months is visible and you can see that what I am saying is true.

I have not watched your video.

HOWEVER - I do not doubt your story. I believe you and I believe your story is true.

This is why I (and I should think many others) are so concerned by this report regarding the only A++ book in the world.

We are concerned because Pinnacle is able to raise the "suspicious" flag on any given event and should that occur you might lose your winnings.

I have never had anything like that happen with Pinnacle however I have often thought about the implications of being unlucky and having Pinnacle do this.

Our styles are different - my max wager on any event might be only $500 USD to a max of maybe $3000 USD.

However - my overall turnover at Pinnacle (amount wagered) is about $3.75M USD. Hence your thread is very concerning.

I hope you get your winnings and that you get the assistance required.

[alex_as]

In this video we can clear see that this bets was fair. It's not the first time with Pinnacle, maybe later I'll add a story about the same situation, when they cancelled bets on top basketball league and block account with a big rollover, the same as yours.
Good idea to record a video. Also, hope you get your winnings back

[kakad]

I had a couple live basketball bets cancelled a couple weeks back by Pinnacle. First time it ever happened. The reason given? "Bet placed after event started" Ya, no shit

[Optional]

I have not watched your video.

HOWEVER - I do not doubt your story. I believe you and I believe your story is true.

This is why I (and I should think many others) are so concerned by this report regarding the only A++ book in the world.

We are concerned because Pinnacle is able to raise the "suspicious" flag on any given event and should that occur you might lose your winnings.

I have never had anything like that happen with Pinnacle however I have often thought about the implications of being unlucky and having Pinnacle do this.

Our styles are different - my max wager on any event might be only $500 USD to a max of maybe $3000 USD.

However - my overall turnover at Pinnacle (amount wagered) is about $3.75M USD. Hence your thread is very concerning.

I hope you get your winnings and that you get the assistance required.

We can't really tell anything either way from his bets.

The most likely situation is that Pinnacle saw suspicious betting patterns from a group of people on the event and cancelled whatever market/s they were betting on.

Why they chose to include the OPs bets would probably come down to if he appears to be part of the sus group.

From the OPs description of his bet history, making similar style dog bets many times before for big money, I think it is worth asking a senior Pinny manager to double check why he is included.

But his betting history alone does not prove he is not part of a syndicate. Millions of dollars of losing bets on dogs could also indicate a syndicate account that is manipulating odds.

Basically, I am not making any assumptions. It could have been an overly zealous trader but Pinny could also be correct. I think our normal management contact will look at it properly and fairly for him.


And as far as you being very worried because they could do this on any given event... Pinny have been able to do this on any given event for their entire history. Are you suggesting they should NEVER be allowed to do it or something? If not, then you make no sense having also said you have never seen it before from them.

BUT, for you info. I would guess Pinny actually do this more than any other big book in the world. Because so many books follow them so syndicates target them more than any other book. The reason you have not heard about them doing it is because they rarely are wrong and syndicates usually do not want members bringing any extra attention to the group by complaining in public.

Hope that helps calm your frazzled nerves about this. ;-)

[Ant23]

We can't really tell anything either way from his bets.

The most likely situation is that Pinnacle saw suspicious betting patterns from a group of people on the event and cancelled whatever market/s they were betting on.

Why they chose to include the OPs bets would probably come down to if he appears to be part of the sus group.

From the OPs description of his bet history, making similar style dog bets many times before for big money, I think it is worth asking a senior Pinny manager to double check why he is included.

But his betting history alone does not prove he is not part of a syndicate. Millions of dollars of losing bets on dogs could also indicate a syndicate account that is manipulating odds.

Basically, I am not making any assumptions. It could have been an overly zealous trader but Pinny could also be correct. I think our normal management contact will look at it properly and fairly for him.


And as far as you being very worried because they could do this on any given event... Pinny have been able to do this on any given event for their entire history. Are you suggesting they should NEVER be allowed to do it or something? If not, then you make no sense having also said you have never seen it before from them.

BUT, for you info. I would guess Pinny actually do this more than any other big book in the world. Because so many books follow them so syndicates target them more than any other book. The reason you have not heard about them doing it is because they rarely are wrong and syndicates usually do not want members bringing any extra attention to the group by complaining in public.

Hope that helps calm your frazzled nerves about this. ;-)

Interesting to say the least. I hope this story gets some traction and is followed up on b/c if there is "shady" practices going on by OP or Pinny it should be public knowledge especially since the OP has come here to voice concerns. I will be following this thread.........

[SportsBettor74]

We can't really tell anything either way from his bets.

The most likely situation is that Pinnacle saw suspicious betting patterns from a group of people on the event and cancelled whatever market/s they were betting on.

Why they chose to include the OPs bets would probably come down to if he appears to be part of the sus group.

From the OPs description of his bet history, making similar style dog bets many times before for big money, I think it is worth asking a senior Pinny manager to double check why he is included.

But his betting history alone does not prove he is not part of a syndicate. Millions of dollars of losing bets on dogs could also indicate a syndicate account that is manipulating odds.

Basically, I am not making any assumptions. It could have been an overly zealous trader but Pinny could also be correct. I think our normal management contact will look at it properly and fairly for him.


And as far as you being very worried because they could do this on any given event... Pinny have been able to do this on any given event for their entire history. Are you suggesting they should NEVER be allowed to do it or something? If not, then you make no sense having also said you have never seen it before from them.

BUT, for you info. I would guess Pinny actually do this more than any other big book in the world. Because so many books follow them so syndicates target them more than any other book. The reason you have not heard about them doing it is because they rarely are wrong and syndicates usually do not want members bringing any extra attention to the group by complaining in public.

Hope that helps calm your frazzled nerves about this. ;-)

Fair and interesting points. I take all of it on board and appreciate this response.

One minor disambiguation: I should have stated "I have never had anything like that happen TO ME with Pinnacle" rather than "I have never had anything like that happen with Pinnacle". I have, of course, heard of Pinnacle doing this on events from time to time.

[jjgold]

Interesting

[Brooklyn Dick]

So Pinnacle can cancel winning wagers AFTER the event on suspicion, never having cancelled any losing wagers?
Straight garbage.......................

[jazzmonkey]

I was on the Albot - Smith match as well, or at least my bot was. I had the winners cancelled as well with the same explanation, suspicious betting patterns (not from me but in general)

[cristianbet]

what made it suspicious ? them not making profit on that match ?

[vampire assassin]

Normally, if you have a fixed match, you see a monster move. Like -200 to +150 -- 10-20% moves.

You can look at the odds history for that match here:
https://www.oddsportal.com/tennis/si...radu-prHLL38e/

Pinnacle's odds on the dog moved from +192 to +181. It's a nice bet on the dog, but it looks like the favorite won -- the non-sharp side.

The only thing suspicious about this match is that your winnings were canceled.

[jazzmonkey]

This is full text, not very exciting though:

"This wager was cancelled due to a general pattern of suspicious betting activity in this match. All wagers from all customers were cancelled. "

I didn't bother questioning it, have seen so many clearly fixed tennis matches over the years that just assumed this was another although they are far rarer these days. Maybe something to do with in-play? That became the method of choice a few years back

[WizoWizo]

We can't really tell anything either way from his bets.

The most likely situation is that Pinnacle saw suspicious betting patterns from a group of people on the event and cancelled whatever market/s they were betting on.

Why they chose to include the OPs bets would probably come down to if he appears to be part of the sus group.

From the OPs description of his bet history, making similar style dog bets many times before for big money, I think it is worth asking a senior Pinny manager to double check why he is included.

But his betting history alone does not prove he is not part of a syndicate. Millions of dollars of losing bets on dogs could also indicate a syndicate account that is manipulating odds.

Basically, I am not making any assumptions. It could have been an overly zealous trader but Pinny could also be correct. I think our normal management contact will look at it properly and fairly for him.


And as far as you being very worried because they could do this on any given event... Pinny have been able to do this on any given event for their entire history. Are you suggesting they should NEVER be allowed to do it or something? If not, then you make no sense having also said you have never seen it before from them.

BUT, for you info. I would guess Pinny actually do this more than any other big book in the world. Because so many books follow them so syndicates target them more than any other book. The reason you have not heard about them doing it is because they rarely are wrong and syndicates usually do not want members bringing any extra attention to the group by complaining in public.

Hope that helps calm your frazzled nerves about this. ;-)

Thank you for your help and time, I really appreciate it.

Of course there is no way for me to know for sure how much was placed on the same market I placed my bets on, the markets were closed 2 minutes after I decided to bet. I was watching the live match on TV and at Pinnacle, and I can surely say that the odds were changing according to the action of the game. But there is one fact that I am certain of, and that is the fact, that I am not in any such groups and I don't think that if such a group existed, they started placing at the exact same time I started, because the markets were closed after my 8 bets.
If for example a total of $40,000.00 was placed on that line and that looked suspicious, I would like to remind that only $33,600.00 was mine, which is 84% of this example. And I suspect that this game was voided only because of me, as Pinnacle didn't want to give my winnings and because of that they voided other players' bets as well (whose total $ of bets may be just a small percent of my total bets). And even if they voided the lost bets on that game that was just to show as if they are fair and can void lost bets as well. I think you agree that it is just an excuse for not paying my winnings. Therefore, I will be very happy if Pinnacle shows how much was placed on that line, so we can see and understand if the bets were cancelled just because of me or not. But once more I confirm that the markets were suspended just because of my bets (because this is not the first time when I start placing maxbets, the markets are being closed).

My request to the pinnacle from the very beginning was your above mentioned: "From the OPs description of his bet history, making similar style dog bets many times before for big money, I think it is worth asking a senior Pinny manager to double check why he is included." because I noticed that "double standards" are being used against me(when I lose in the same way, on the same player they take my money, when I win, they take my winnings).

About manipulating odds: I have never been involved in such things, I don't even know how that works. Pinnacle can easily check my betting history, check every single bet I placed and see that no such thing ever happened. Also, after my bets the markets are being closed, so I don't think there is a way to use that "manipulation."

Finally, I want to admit that I think very highly of Pinnacle and I really trust their reputation and that's the reason I played at Pinnacle and had millions of dollars of rollover. Now as well I hope that this is just a misunderstanding and the management of Pinnacle with your help will reconsider their decision and finally make a fair decision. Once more I repeat that I can send any screenshot necessary for proving my words.

[WizoWizo]

I was on the Albot - Smith match as well, or at least my bot was. I had the winners cancelled as well with the same explanation, suspicious betting patterns (not from me but in general)

I am very sorry to hear that, especially when I suspect that your bets were cancelled because of me. If it's not a secret, can you please tell us how much you placed and on which line?

P.S. I hope at least they cancelled lost bets as well, otherwise, it would be very funny, but even so, as long as they don't provide the wagering statistics on that match publicly, their word means nothing for me, and I will continue being assured that their main purpose is to hold my winnings, and for that they may have cancelled other bets(maybe lost bets as well), just for showing that they are "fair".
I am sure that the markets were suspected only because of my bets, because I was following that event from the very beginning and saw all the odds changes during the match. Unfortunately, this is the first time I win a bet, after the markets are closed because of my bets, so I don't know if this scenario continues all the time or not. But the opposite always happened, I placed maxbets, the markets were closed, I lost all my bets, but not a single bet was cancelled

[WizoWizo]

Also I would like to add that after I made the video, I lost around $65,000.00 again by placing bets in the same style and some markets were again suspended after my bets, however, after losing my bets, not a single bet was suspicious and not a single bet was cancelled. Please see attached my last bets, after which I withdrew the remaining $100,000.00 and stopped playing at Pinnacle.
screenshot #1
screenshot #2
screenshot #3
screenshot #4
I didn't know how to attach photos here, I hope it's not against the forum rules to post external links.
Thank you

[jazzmonkey]

Sure, it was $500 on Albot -3.5

I am very sorry to hear that, especially when I suspect that your bets were cancelled because of me. If it's not a secret, can you please tell us how much you placed and on which line?

P.S. I hope at least they cancelled lost bets as well, otherwise, it would be very funny, but even so, as long as they don't provide the wagering statistics on that match publicly, their word means nothing for me, and I will continue being assured that their main purpose is to hold my winnings, and for that they may have cancelled other bets(maybe lost bets as well), just for showing that they are "fair".
I am sure that the markets were suspected only because of my bets, because I was following that event from the very beginning and saw all the odds changes during the match. Unfortunately, this is the first time I win a bet, after the markets are closed because of my bets, so I don't know if this scenario continues all the time or not. But the opposite always happened, I placed maxbets, the markets were closed, I lost all my bets, but not a single bet was cancelled

[WizoWizo]

Sure, it was $500 on Albot -3.5

So that means I placed a bet on John Patrick's win, while you placed on Radu Albot's, however, both our bets were cancelled. This is really strange. It looks like they control the destiny of the bets as they wish.

[jazzmonkey]

Might be missing something or not ready carefully but I thought that we both bet on Albot otherwise there wouldn't be a problem?

So that means I placed a bet on John Patrick's win, while you placed on Radu Albot's, however, both our bets were cancelled. This is really strange. It looks like they control the destiny of the bets as they wish.

[WizoWizo]

Might be missing something or not ready carefully but I thought that we both bet on Albot otherwise there wouldn't be a problem?

My bet was on the tennis match John-Patrick Smith vs Radu Albot, John-Patrick Smith to win set 2.
Please see the screenshot for the detailed info on the bet.

[WizoWizo]

For those who don't know Russian, I have added English subtitles. Hope that will help you understand the situation a little better.