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Yeah, that's the unique position a book has. They can make the decision not to pay a customer but instead of telling him at once they can wait and see if the player is able to continue winning before he asks for a withdrawal. In the best case for the bookie the player loses his entire balance and will never learn about that he was flagged way before and never even had a chance to get his winnings.Originally Posted by gauchojake
That's kind of the problem. The book does not think the player would do this.
It looks to them like a software program, probably not operating as it should have been, placed the $1 bets.
The advantage of a robot would be the ability to log-in and place bets more rapidly than a human could pull off, and wager almost immediately when there is an edge or favorable line move. The rule was written because of this. YouWager's stance is to try to deter players who might think it's safe to do so at their sportsbook. We're waiting to review what they have on file concerning the OP and when they concluded their rule was violated.
Here's the advantage of using a bot as I see it.
NBA line
GS -400
MIL +330
News of Steph Curry not playing is announced, lines at all books change to:
GS -200
MIL +150
If the bot is able to log in to YouWager and place a bet on MIL at the old line of +330, say $1000 to win $3300, you could then go and bet on GS at a different book at the new -200 line and make guaranteed money.
If the OP was truly doing this, one would think it would be easily identifiable by the book by checking bet times vs line movements. Very surprising that they would let him roll up a $77k balance before giving any kind of warning.
Delay/limit/ ban the op all you want. Especially without defenitive 100% proof, stealing the 77k is wrong. If they had 100% proof, it's still wrong in my opinion but I guess I could see the argument.
I have no affiliation with anyone here, and have been using SBR since 2006.
This topic encouraged me to sign up. Namely, to write that I'm very eagerly awaiting the response of the SBR staff.
I have noted with some alarm in the past few years that SBR has a tendency to defend scummy, downright criminal behavior by sportsbooks while subjecting users to intense scrutiny. Even when the user goes above and beyond to prove his innocence, something they shouldn't even have to do (the onus should be on the book to prove wrongdoing), the response by SBR staff is frequently condescending, skeptical, and inevitably blames the user for their problems.
What I'm seeing in this topic might well be the last straw.
For all we know, the OP may indeed be using bots.
However, absolutely zero evidence has been provided showing this, and EVEN if that were the case, the behavior of the sportsbook in the OP is unconsciable and fradulent, from claiming they had sent him bitcoins when they never did, canceling his account only 6 months after the supposed fraud, changing their story, refusing to answer him or provide any evidence, trying to get him to sign some shady form admitting fault, etc.
SBR staff seems to be siding with the sportsbook here, and their justification is forum posts from 5-6 years ago asking about programming by the OP (seriously?) and how supposedly weird $1 bets are.
If SBR doesn't get to the bottom of this, and severely downgrade Youwager if the OP's accusations prove to be even half-true, I will avoid SBR as a corrupted, scummy resource themselves, and tell all my gambler friends to do likewise.
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He who pays the piper, calls the tune.
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FYI, I went ahead and sent youwager an email asking why I had a captcha before all wagers and if they could remove it. They didn't reply, but they did remove the captcha, so that's good news.
When's the last time you received a payout?
Your account under review also?
Not to my knowledge
If the book has details of the same bets being made on other accounts then they have strong of bot activity, but if they did then why did they wait?
Just out of curiosity...if someone normally bets in thousands what would be more suspicious - $1 bets or $50 bets?
The advantage of a robot would be the ability to log-in and place bets more rapidly than a human could pull off, and wager almost immediately when there is an edge or favorable line move. The rule was written because of this. YouWager's stance is to try to deter players who might think it's safe to do so at their sportsbook.
LOL How the hell could you program a "robot" to read sports news and then get it to log into a Sports-book account and make a bet on the side of the "positive news"??
And if that ridiculous shit was possible, then how would any online S-book EVER know (or prove) that it wasn't an actual person who was monitoring the news and then logging in and trying to quickly get a bet to gain an "edge" on the line?
I bet there are plenty of people on here that do just that! They monitor news and think they have "slight edges" on certain games, so they bet those games very quickly. Somebody is going to have to tell me how a S-book, or ANYONE else would ever be able to know whether it was a human or a robot that was doing this.
A S-book can't just say "We don't have any proof that you used a robot, but we think you did, so we are taking
$77 Grand from you." or it opens it up for them to say and do that to EVERY big winner on their site!
Last edited by JoeCool20; 11-27-18 at 08:40 PM.
Has nothing to do with reading news. If their bot logged into a book every couple of minutes and checked the lines, then compared the current lines vs the last time they checked it a few minutes ago, they could easily identify changes. Then compare those changes to other books to see if any are slow to move.
just another shot taker,even though i detest youwager,this guy is just another scammer
Now once again, if the bot was doing that, then since a human being could ALSO do it, (and plenty of people DO just that) then how the hell would the S-book or ANYONE else ever be able to prove which one it was?
For the second time now: A S-book can't just say "It could have been a human or a bot. We don't have any proof that you used a robot, but we think you did, so we are taking $77 Grand from you."
Or it opens it up for them to say and do that to EVERY big winner on their site!
Youwager went on record saying if you scrape their website, this is cheating, and they will void all your winnings? Can you say this is a fair rule with a straight face?
A quick sanity test is: do any other books have a similar policy that lets them seize a 77k balance? No other books void winnings for scraping their site or using robots to bet. A-rated books simply don't do crazy things like this.
How do other A-rated books handle robots?
Pinnacle: They use "Robot-assassin". If you ping more than about every 10 seconds, they block your IP until you agree to stop.
Bookmaker: If they notice, they will block your IP, and maybe suspend your account until you agree to stop.
No other A-rated books have ever seized a balance for robot betting (which hasn't been proven here).
I just can't get enough of this.
I'm not replying to you, I'm replying to the ridiculousness of that scenario somehow "mattering" to the book!
So if you (or a robot) logs on to your S-book accounts quite often, and you (or a robot) see that some random line has moved from minus 5 to minus 6, then you immediately run to ANOTHER one of your S-book accounts and see if their line has moved to minus 6, and if it hasn't moved yet, then you quickly bet minus 5 before you think they might move the line to -6.
Well, who cares?
Lines move up & down ALL the time! LOL
But you can only bet the game at whatever line it is that they are currently offering!
You can have money at several books and "shop" for the best line, and then bet any line you want at whatever the book is currently offering it at!
Why would a S-book care, or try to steal your winnings if you bet minus 5 right before they moved it to minus 6?
How could they ever say that you (or a robot) somehow knew that they were going to eventually move the line?!
Who says that a line moving a point means the bet is going to win?
And who in the fuk would need a robot to "shop around" for the best line?
And who in the fuk says the bet is going to win because one of the books moved the line a point?
Last edited by JoeCool20; 11-27-18 at 10:33 PM.
Crap like this drives me nuts. Using a bot cannot be 100% proved. Card counting cannot be 100% proved. Saying a player is not recreational cannot be 100% proved. But they use these lame excuses all the time to screw a player out of their winnings. And even if they do they really are not wrong or illegal. A bot can still lose a game it does not magically see into the future if the team won or not. Card counting is using your own mind to win a game and how do you even determine what a recreational better is? If someone makes their entire living off sports betting and has no job so what .
What happened to OP ? Would like an update if he was not banned.
Break the rules and the book can boot you, it's their place.
Take all the winnings though? That's straight theft.
Support this Book and their actions by keeping your money with them. Protest this by withdrawing your balance.
OP: You mentioned tracking your Model by placing $1 bets. Does you wager provide detailed analysis of your P&L in their dashboard? I'm not sure as i do not use them now. Wouldn't keeping track of it in excel without betting provide better insight and reports?
The main problem about these things is not just that they happen. It's an unregulated book so such things do happen and a player will always be at the book's mercy. The main problem is that such a book is A rated and people trust on this rating.
In my opinion only Asian books (except Singbet) deserve an overall A rating because these are the only places where such things DO NOT happen. They always pay and give a shit about people using software, bots, manipulate games or whatsoever.
I know SBR is US-based and most of the forum members are from US and you guys are limited in your choice of books. But when I recap all the issues with BOL, 5dimes and other A rated CR books it doesn't look like these books deserve this rating. You will say these incidents are seldom. You know what? At Asian books these incidents do not even exist. So for me the ratings at SBR are not credible and it's obvious all these ratings are based on affiliate money. It's okay if you know. But it's sad if you don't and fall for these ratings, thinking you can win as much as you want and always get your winnings at these books because that's simply not the case.
Requested one last night and waiting on the payout.
You're right it can't be 100% proved. But Youwager tested him/his account by lowering his limits to a few dollars. His betting continued as usual right after that. They suspected he was doing something against their terms and when he went from betting thousands to $1-$3 in the same day his statement of betting to test his system or for tracking purposes is highly suspicious. To me, it's more likely whatever software or bot he was using placed 70 something bets before he logged in himself and noticed.
They wanted to see what his account would do when limited and when it made $1-$3 bets it confirmed their suspicions.Yes, a bot and software can't predict winners for certain so he was probably beating closing lines by reacting to line movements before Youwager could.
the bot wouldn't check back every few minutes, it would be constant, and it has been proven (by the OP and many others) that chasing steam is pretty profitable over the long-term.
the book DEFINITELY cares, and this wasn't total random luck building up a 77k balance... but just because the sportsbook got beat, that doesn't necessarily mean the player was cheating
fukkin shit book stole $25 from me and put me on delay
YepOnce again, they will point to their terms and there will be nothing that can be done. You can onky hope to shame these people and hope they think the bad publicity isn't worth not paying. HOPE is the key word
WTF is scraping? Never heard of it
I’m pretty sure OP stated that he placed the lower wagers to track not that he was limited. If he was indeed limited and just kept on hammering along like you say, then he may very well have violated the TOS but I don’t think we can draw that conclusion just yet. If that’s the case they should still come to a settlement.
So, where is the evidence of any wrongdoing? While youwager is looking for that evidence, shouldn't its rating be temporarily downgraded?
It's still an A book, and someone might open an account with them, without knowing that there is a possibility they just stole 77k from one of their customers.
From what SBR said I was under the impression that this is how it worked. Not that he was placing those micro bets while not being limited. I would hope OP gets paid if YW genuinely has nothing against him. That being said, why run up $77k balance on a site like Youwager when you can't even take more than $6k-$10k out a week tops. Draws lots of attention to your account.
Exactly, why would anyone run a balance up that high at a book that won't pay more than 1k a day in most payout forms unless they found a glitch in the system - if they were just beating normal lines they'd go to a book with higher payouts like Heritage or 5 dimes.
Pretty obvious the guy was using some sort of bot if what is said here is generally accurate.
I understand the advantages of betting with bots and being ahead of the moves but its still no reason to confiscate funds. They booked the bets and should therefore pay the man his money.
Rather than setting obscure terms in an attempt to deter bettors of this type books should invest in software to bettor monitor players action and they can then catch these types of player earlier and limit damage by limiting to peanuts or banning altogher.(because we know none of these shops want to actually use the info and be a book rather than just a deposit shop)
Using the type of methods they are using now they may as well put a disclaimer in their rules that states "Winners funds are subject to confiscation based on managements decision of how you won"
Sorry Player X, we feel you were running models at your house and therefore will be confiscating your funds.
This is bull-shit pay this guy his money
Pay him his money and send him down the road.
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