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And if it is flagged as sharp, it gets limited. I suppose this is proof Pinnacle DOES limit winners/sharps. My limits are now half of what they used to be and I presume only 70% of a "fresh" account. This is not an agent account.Originally Posted by Optional
In the past, they have had a base limit that everyone gets when they join. Limits only go up from there.
You need to compare your limit to a new account holder, or a known sharp account holder, to know your current position and if the policy has changed.
I wonder if that's a regional difference now for fresh accounts.
Total guess.
I remember a thread, which I can't find now unfortunately, where we compared limits and we concluded all agent accounts had a 50% limit in regards to "fresh" accounts. My current limits are proof they do slash limits even for non-agent accounts.
So far we have this:
Personal non-sharp account: 140% of base limits
Fresh or normal personal account: 100% of base limits
Sharp limited personal account: 70% of base limits
Agent (sharp) account: 50% of base limits
Betfair clones are forced to take 50% of the action too- Orbit does this. Ridiculous of Betfair, but who is surprised honestly, when they have a "premium charge" to steal their client's winnings.
Last edited by Craig22; 08-06-18 at 10:13 AM.
What do you guys think is the reason for that:
A) Pinnacle is getting greedy.
B) The number of sharps increased over the years, Pinnacle's profits decreased, they consequently had to take measures against the sharps.
Do you think this could be a temporary measure or will it get even worse in the future?
I'm afraid the smart money/square money ratio has increased over the years. More and more people have learned how to be profitable in the long run. The information research is getting easier with social media and improved google algorithms. People use trading bots and build their own little programs to beat the market. The number of professional players who make a living out of sports betting surely has massively increased in the past years and be aware online sports betting is still a young market, so the development could even get worse for sharps.
or perhaps C) They've lost access to a lot of countries, eg much of Europe. You can get around that with brokers, but that's likely to be sharper action on average.
B and C combined IMHO. You can see them increasing the juice for a lot of markets and starting to open lines a tad later (VS Maxbet and SBO) etc as well. Clearly they are struggling to remain as profitable as they were before.
I can only see it get worse untill there is some kind of balance again (as Pinnacle makes it harder to win, less sharps will be profitable so more will step out of the market altogether).
They're increasing vig on smaller markets(volleyball) and dropping limits also.
Last edited by Craig22; 08-06-18 at 10:22 AM.
Let's repeat that? My pin88 via molly has .....
ManUtd (vs Leicester), EPL 10/August: 1446GBP (1615 euros) @2.12
Which market is that?
I can bet 4284.26 on the united ML (1.505) through PS3838 and 5997.95 on my regular account.
Sorry, it was the hcap-1 (although it's gone up to 7304euros now)
ML is 4262euros atm @1.505, so same as your ps3838.
Opened a Sportmarket account a few days ago...it has 50% of the agent limits so that means 25% of normal limits. My other Mollybet account has 50% of the standard limits. Is every Sportsmarket account the same?
I still dont understand Pinnacle grading customers sharp or non sharp. Ever since they founded they have been banging on about their unique business model where sharp players shape their lines, arbers are welcome, and they dont limit anyone etc etc
If they start limiting then their business will rapidly decline and they will turn into the next Bet365. Its a competitive market out there, and Pinny wont be immune to falling if they start soft book tactics!
I've mentioned this before. By profiling players and giving their sharpest customers lower limits, they still get the same info they need to sharpen their line but at a lower cost. If you limit a very sharp (winning) player to 25 or 50%, it costs you 75% or 50% less to adjust your line and get the same info than it would if you allowed that player 100% limits. Sbo and Maxbet do the same thing now with their agent accounts.
informative thread. i believe the other bookies follow the ps3838 and set their odds accordingly. saw this first hand when placing a bet there and the lines moved and the rest followed. My adivce if you want to bet huge limits is to wait for the actual Pinny web to release the odds then hit it with all you've got.
Except this does not work because Maxbet (and SBO a bit later) bring out their early lines almost a full day before Pinnacle. You can pound those to what they are supposed to be if they are off. Pinnacle will follow them when they open more often than not.
not true. i have seen quite a number IBC/SBO give horrible early lines and the ps38 just give a much better one. could be depending on the popularity of the game.
Alfa, not sure that you are correct on the 25% statement, I have been using SM for a while now and they have 50% of the regular limits (I also have unaltered private account with Pinnacle, personal one - never deposited a single dime there; and it is exactly 50% limits when compared to it).
Checked other brokers recently, they take position on their limits it seems.
We can compare what we see, might be that I'm in the wrong.
Mine had half the agent limits:
Random game Zulte Waregem VS Kortrijk ML1 and AH1 min -0.5 at 1.854 and 1.84
Sportmarket: Respectively 255 and 502
Agent account: 510 and 1003
Personal account: 714 and 1405
My point...if those lines were horrible they would have been pounded to something more correct. Pinnacle opens later and will follow the line at that time. If those lines were not off, they were not horrible and would not move. Pinnacle would not open very far off the SBO or Maxbet line.
255, 502 on my SM
510, 1003 on my Pinnacle account
SM pinny account has same limits as on Molly platform, so it can be that agent account is being taken position on (who you got pinny account from?) and your personal one might be marked as not sharp one
Same here (molly with 50% limits).
interesting thread
Molly worth it?
Molly is the service provider, many agents are using them (SM, PT, BIA, B-I); but I grew fond of the SM as they don't charge commission on every placed bet via Molly platform and they have flat deposit/withdrawal fees unlike other agents. So overall am satisfied with their services.
To be honest, since I have been using most of the Molly agents, I might decide to open special review thread about it if SBR would agree on that.
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My personal account started off normal at 100%, then went to 130% limits and is now at 70% from what I gather. I miss those 130% limits.
If you aks agents and they profile you positively, you can get a Mollybet account with higher limits because some agents may be willing to take a stake in your betting. The commission is also negotiable.
Actually all agent accounts have 50% of the normal personal starting limits. This used to be 100% until Pinnacle forced them to either lower the limits by 50% or take a stake of 50% in those bets. The sportmarket account is the only one I've ever seen that has 25% of base limits...255, 502 on my SM
510, 1003 on my Pinnacle account
SM pinny account has same limits as on Molly platform, so it can be that agent account is being taken position on (who you got pinny account from?) and your personal one might be marked as not sharp one
Don't think you are correct with the 70% limits on your account now as you have higher than my regular (never funded, never used) account - so personally I think you actually do have 130%
Not a single agent will take action on +ROI customer, it would be unsustainable for them in the long run as they would have to cover PT from their own pockets, so I would say you are -ROI player, thus you have larger limits across the board (apart from SM).
edit for quote:
Can't agree with you, you simply got the math wrong in same cases and I have displayed that for you.
Maybe, but my limits are somewhat weird.
Corners handicap Barca VS PSV. Barca -4.5 at 2.1
SM: 643 (25%)
Agent account: 1286 (50%)
Personal account...a whopping 3601 (140%)
Schalke VS porto draw at 3.35
SM: 6431 (25%)
Agent: 12862 (50%)
Personal 18007 (70%)
They have profiled my personal account depending on the market it seems.
I would say percentage is more like 50%, 100% (Agent PT, Normal), 100%++ Pinnacle Profiled
I have 6431 (50%) via molly, and someone I know with a native pinny acct is at double that.
The thing that does not add up is, my agent account always had the same limits as my personal account up until I think it's 2 years ago when Pinnacle demanded that 50% stake from their agents.
Then, my agent account all of a sudden got 50% of my personal account limits and that didn't change. Then a little while after it became what I thought was about 35%, but actually my personal limits had gone up to 130%.
By your reasoning, Pinnacle gave me a 200% account to start and I got "limited" by my agent to 100%. That does not make sense because if my agent had profiled me as non-sharp, they would not have given me 50% limits in Maxbet and SBO either (where I'm at 50% of standard).
My personal account would now have 280% standard limits on some markets, which does not make sense either I think.
Not saying I'm profiled as sharp by them (I don't want to be) but the numbers do not add up.
If what you say is correct and Sportmarket is at 50%, I would have an agent account at 100% and a personal account with varying limits of 140 and 280%. Historically that cannot be right and it does not add up with the limits I get from my agent in Maxbet and SBO.
I have another Molly account with double those limits, but the Sportmarket (Molly) account the same as yours.
SBO have a different PT% I think. Dunno how standardised it is, but my molly is on 33%.
Mine are all at 50% for SBO, so is my standard agent (non molly) account and my sportmarket account.
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lonnie55 gave Alfie White 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.