My Impossible Dream

[BigdaddyQH]

I play almost exculsively in Vegas. I will not get into the obvious differences between Vegas and offshore books. Here is my dream list if you will. A list of what I want to see an offshore book offer.

1. No limits on wagering. All books limit the amount of money that can be wagered on any particular event, and I do not expect that to change. What I do want is a book that will not cut my personal wagering limits because I win a lot. If the limit on a Pro Football game is 5K, I should be able to wager that amount no matter what my won-loss record is at a book. I should not be cut off because I have won a certain amount of money.

2. No changing horses in the middle of the stream. I have read many complaints about this. Wagers being cancled because of any number of reasons. Once a wager is placed and accepted, the ONLY reason why that wager should be cancled is because the game/match was cancled. In Vegas, once you get your wagering slip, the wager can not be cancled for any other reason.

3. No charges for withdrawls. Now I understand that there will be a limit on the number of withdrawls a player can make in a certain period of time, but there should be no charge for these withdrawls. These books are using your money. Your money can sit in an account for weeks or even months. The books are making money on your money. One free withdrawl per month for any amount should be allowed.

4. Safeguards for my money. I do not want to find out that some phantom player spent my money in a books casino for any reason. Every book must have a way to block this. Obviously there has been problems with this issue at certain books.

5. Current times. I want to be able to see the start time of a certain event in my time zone. I do not want to have to keep a time table to determine what time it is that a certain event will start.

6. No wagering type limits. If I take a team, and the odds go crazy, I want to be able to wager against that team. Basically I am talking about "Middling" but I have seen others willing to eat the vig because they do not want so much money on a certain wager. Whom you wager on and when you wager on them is not the business of the casino. It is the players option.

7. I want to see a comprehensive explanation of all payout options, including the time it takes to receive payouts, the costs involved, the risks involved, and anything else tht involves payouts.

8. I want to see the elimination of so many disputes. This should be a simple process. You make a wager. It wins or loses. It is that simple. These disputes over judgements as to what was a winning ticket and what was not is ridiculous. All the book has to do is look at the final score, determine if the wager is a winner based on the points taken or given, and pay the winners. It can not be any simpler.

Those are 8 things that I want to see happen in an offshore book before I would ever seriously consider giving them my action. There are way too many complaints in this site about failures to pay, cancled wagers during or after an event, lost monies, and limitations placed on players. I have never seen these types of problems in Vegas sports books, and I see no reason why they have to happen in offshore books. Can it be any simpler that making a wager, receiving a ticket, or an online conformation number, and either winning or losing?

[durito]

pinnacle w. the exception of 5. which basically require the ability to do 1st grade math in one's head.

[DBurton81]

LOL

[PRC]

pinnacle, bookmaker, olympic will love your action.

And if you think your money is 100% guaranteed in Vegas, look up Gary Austin. Plenty of dudes still riding around with uncashed tickets at his book in Vegas

[ringemup]

number 4- very true i agree

[BigdaddyQH]

pinnacle, bookmaker, olympic will love your action.

And if you think your money is 100% guaranteed in Vegas, look up Gary Austin. Plenty of dudes still riding around with uncashed tickets at his book in Vegas

I play the big books. Hilton. Caesars. The Mirage. I do not mess around with the small books out there. My money is 100% safe because the book does not get it until I give it to them. When you and your fellow partners wager upwards of 50K per game or more, you do not worry about crap like that. That is strickly for the offshore books. We have accounts in various Vegas Banks. We have accounts at all the major hotels. It is very simple if you know what you are doing in Vegas and who to talk to. It is no big secret.

As far as offshore action is concerned, I have accounts at all 3, though Pinny is a pain in the ass because of their no USA policy. But no book is going to hold my money unless that money is wagered. I am going to make the interest, not the book, and that is exactly what your off shore books are doing to you.

Offshore books are a bigger crap roll than their crap tables in their casinos. Sure they have nice bonuses and the occasional attractive vig, but for the B.S. they put you through, it is not worth it. If there was some way of regulating them, things could be different, but there is not. If you guys knew who really ran some of those books, you would understand.

[durito]

I play the big books. Hilton. Caesars. The Mirage. I do not mess around with the small books out there. My money is 100% safe because the book does not get it until I give it to them. When you and your fellow partners wager upwards of 50K per game or more, you do not worry about crap like that. That is strickly for the offshore books. We have accounts in various Vegas Banks. We have accounts at all the major hotels. It is very simple if you know what you are doing in Vegas and who to talk to. It is no big secret.

As far as offshore action is concerned, I have accounts at all 3, though Pinny is a pain in the ass because of their no USA policy. But no book is going to hold my money unless that money is wagered. I am going to make the interest, not the book, and that is exactly what your off shore books are doing to you.

Offshore books are a bigger crap roll than their crap tables in their casinos. Sure they have nice bonuses and the occasional attractive vig, but for the B.S. they put you through, it is not worth it. If there was some way of regulating them, things could be different, but there is not. If you guys knew who really ran some of those books, you would understand.

Send spiro or wally a link to your posts here and greek will let you bet as much as you want on any football game you want.

[Coldpimpin]

I HAVE A DREAM too! .....that one day I will be able to play at Betus.... and get paid that calendar year! No line movement on games 4 days 17 hours from kickoff the moment I make the bet.....No refaxing documents because their pet komodo dragon happened to pis on my "withdrawal documentation".....

[PRC]

Offshore books are a bigger crap roll than their crap tables in their casinos. Sure they have nice bonuses and the occasional attractive vig, but for the B.S. they put you through, it is not worth it. If there was some way of regulating them, things could be different, but there is not. If you guys knew who really ran some of those books, you would understand.

What kind of crap does olympic put you through? None! Are you going to sit in the sportsbook all day and watch the lines or pay someone to do it for you? because if you're not monitoring the lines and playing at reduced vig then you are costing yourself money.

[sq764]

wow if you feel this way, dont play

[whatsgood5]

Agree with number two the most, nice list!

[BigdaddyQH]

What kind of crap does olympic put you through? None! Are you going to sit in the sportsbook all day and watch the lines or pay someone to do it for you? because if you're not monitoring the lines and playing at reduced vig then you are costing yourself money.

I have no problems with Olympic and we used them as one of our back-up books. They came out with some real bad College Football futures last year and almost immediately took them off the board, but they honored their wagers.

To answer your other question, when you play over 1 MILLION dollars a year on football like our group, and other groups do, you bet someone is going to monitor the live odds during the hours of operation for the books. That is called making a very comfortable living. That is what myself and my group does. We make a lot because we are at the point where we can afford to wager a lot on each game.

[durito]

I have no problems with Olympic and we used them as one of our back-up books. They came out with some real bad College Football futures last year and almost immediately took them off the board, but they honored their wagers.

To answer your other question, when you play over 1 MILLION dollars a year on football like our group, and other groups do, you bet someone is going to monitor the live odds during the hours of operation for the books. That is called making a very comfortable living. That is what myself and my group does. We make a lot because we are at the point where we can afford to wager a lot on each game.

Oh wow, 1 million risked in a 4+ month season. Get back to me when you do that in a day.

[tachi]

Oh wow, 1 million risked in a 4+ month season. Get back to me when you do that in a day.

wow,in Colombia the average salary per month is $400
so you are one of the richest guys there.

Do you control some parts of the internal politic in the country?

[durito]

wow,in Colombia the average salary per month is $400
so you are one of the richest guys there.

Do you control some parts of the internal politic in the country?

What part of my post said anything about me?

Bigdaddy claims to be in a big syndicate with dozens of bettors and yet they only risked over one million in the football season. Most big pros do that every week in the football season. I am not a big pro, nor a member of a syndicate. Nevertheless, yes during football season I risk way over a million over the 4+ months that it runs(that's not really a lot, most AP will get their whole roll or more in play every week ($1 million/16 weeks = $62,500 a week).

And yes 50% of the population in Colombia is very poor. The upper class parts of Bogota and Medellin however, are as nice or nicer than you'll find in most USA cities.

[username474]

wow,in Colombia the average salary per month is $400
so you are one of the richest guys there.

Do you control some parts of the internal politic in the country?

What he is saying is even a small syndicate that gets down 30k a game will make 45,000,000$ a year in wagers with only 1500 plays a year. The big offshore books see this action every day of the year.

[username474]

What part of my post said anything about me?

Bigdaddy claims to be in a big syndicate with dozens of bettors and yet they only risked over one million in the football season. Most big pros do that every week in the football season. I am not a big pro, nor a member of a syndicate. Nevertheless, yes during football season I risk way over a million over the 4+ months that it runs(that's not really a lot, most AP will get their whole roll or more in play every week ($1 million/16 weeks = $62,500 a week).

And yes 50% of the population in Colombia is very poor. The upper class parts of Bogota and Medellin however, are as nice or nicer than you'll find in most USA cities.

I was typing while you posted.

[Thremp]

GINI scores are useless IMO. I ain't poor so I don't curr. In fact I'd actually prefer a country with a "worse" GINI. 1 mil per season is laughably low as well. Like pathetically low. Like to the point of being low enough that you'll have trouble paying your bills if you're a professional. Try chopping that up and you're gonna be pressed to afford Mountain Dew and pizza in addition to a WoW membership.

[magynuck]

1 million wagered
57% win rate
ROI 9.7%
$97000 profit
10 people in syndicate ( I think this is a conservative estimate with all the combined skills drawn upon)
$9700 profit for big daddy (a just reward in terms of a yearly salary for his skill set I think even his detractors would agree)
$9700 = a very good WEEK

[durito]

9.7% is an absurdly high hold. I can't do that on jazette props let alone a real market.

[Smurf71]

Vegas questions

I have no problems with Olympic and we used them as one of our back-up books. They came out with some real bad College Football futures last year and almost immediately took them off the board, but they honored their wagers.

To answer your other question, when you play over 1 MILLION dollars a year on football like our group, and other groups do, you bet someone is going to monitor the live odds during the hours of operation for the books. That is called making a very comfortable living. That is what myself and my group does. We make a lot because we are at the point where we can afford to wager a lot on each game.

BigDaddy, since you are in this thing I wanna ask your opinion. How high do you think big Vegas books pain threshold is? I mean MGM Group, Las Vegas Hilton, Bellagio and others. I was talking to a guy last year who took Bellagio for 300k in 30 days and got flagged. There is number for everybody , just depends how high it is.

Secondly you have to keep your return under 10k in Vegas in order to escape filling out IRS forms... So you can not really bet much more than 5k/game.

Guys who are betting in several books have to run around with lot of cash, does not really matter if they are beards or not. What about security issues in that case?

[skrtelfan]

1 million in a NFL season is supposed to be "more than everyone else here combined?" GMAFB. I certainly wouldn't call any MGM/Mirage or Harrah's property particularly big, either. Hilton, sure, but M and South Point/El Cortez/Palms are certainly bigger outfits than any MGM/Mirage or Harrah's property.

Pinnacle also fits #5 for Vegas bettors.

[Ruifgalmeida]

you will have a lot less EV playing in vegas, that realy doesnt seem like a pro aproach

[Johnpoints]

Big Daddy always catches heat, but I don't see one item on his list that isn't reasonable.

[PRC]

there's nothing unreasonable about it, but he does seem to have some irrational disdain for offshore books while trumping up vegas every chance he gets. The fact of the matter is that if his group is as big as he claims it is, they would have no problem getting credit offshore and they'd be giving themselves a chance to make more money just as a product of having more outs.

[Justin7]

9.7% is an absurdly high hold. I can't do that on jazette props let alone a real market.

I generally agree, although smaller syndicates can hold 10% on college sports if they're betting 5k a game or less (and is that really a syndicate then?)