Betphoenix.com Scammed me for $24,470

[FishFace5]

It is not illegal to place a wager, but it IS illegal to transfer the funds.

It pains me but he is correct.
BigDaddy, I live in NY. I have no access to vegas.
We use offshore books because we have to. The purpose of this site is to rate the offshore books and provide a forum for complaints and disputes when they arise. All though some of your info is accurate your redundant message of just bet in vegas is getting old. You wanna be my agent out there or put me on with someone who does??? If not can you save all your vegas is the holy land crap.

[WileOut]

It is not illegal to place a wager, but it IS illegal to transfer the funds. You had better learn the law. Like so many of you guys who think that they are Monday Morning Lawyers, you guys think you know it all. The entire Federal Government's case against off shore books and their customers rests with banking laws. If it were not illegal, why do you have to go through an entire song and dance to make a depoist, or withdrawl? A federal agent could arrest you tomorow if he chose to. All they have to do is have probable cause to hack into your computer, see if you made any types of deposits into an of shore book, and you are nailed. If you have won money, the IRS has your tail unless you declared it. While this is rarely done, it IS done.

While some of you guys blindly brag about your winnings, there are a few people who read all of these posts, hack into your computer to see if what you say is legit, and if so, report you to the IRS for tax evasion. If convicted, or if a deal is made, they get 10% of what the feds collect. That is why I always suggest that no one ever talks about specifics when it comes to money. You have absolutely NO privacy on a computer. The feds can hack into your computer whenever they wish. So can thousands of hackers out there. It's the pits, but get used to it. It will only get worse. Big Brother is watching you.

Its not illegal for the player to transfer funds. U.I.G....E.A. (which has been pushed back until this summer and may be pushed back for good soon) only makes it illegal for a bank to transfer funds to an internet gambling site. It doesn't even make it illegal for a bank to accept funds from an internet gambling site, only to the site. Players are not put at risk under U...I.G.E.A.

Now as a result of the U...I...GEA, many banks adopted a policy of overblocking internet gambling transactions. They decided on their own not to allow any internet gambling activity. But again that was a decision made by the banks themselves, not a law.

[BigdaddyQH]

And is it illegal for players who win money not to declare their winning or pay taxes on them? If what you say is ture (and it is not), then how come gaming sites do not make direct deposits of winning into players bank accounts? How come off shore books give information on players to the federal government in exchange for being allowed to operate in the U.S? How come some A or A+ rated books, like Pinny, VIP, and 52 other sports books around the world will not do businees in the U.S? That number is growing monthly. If everything was as simple as you simpletons make it,there would be no problem, whould there? Again, do some research. There has to be reasons why books like Pinny, VIP, and others will not accept business from the U.S.

[WileOut]

And is it illegal for players who win money not to declare their winning or pay taxes on them? If what you say is ture (and it is not), then how come gaming sites do not make direct deposits of winning into players bank accounts? How come off shore books give information on players to the federal government in exchange for being allowed to operate in the U.S? How come some A or A+ rated books, like Pinny, VIP, and 52 other sports books around the world will not do businees in the U.S? That number is growing monthly. If everything was as simple as you simpletons make it,there would be no problem, whould there? Again, do some research. There has to be reasons why books like Pinny, VIP, and others will not accept business from the U.S.

They don't make direct deposits because of what I said above......bank overblocking of internet gambling transactions, not because of any law. Well, they may not want to draw attention to themselves like that either. Its safer to do transactions other ways because of other laws against bookmaking (laws that have nothing to do with players). Now in certain states, it is illegal at the state level for players to make certain wagers. You have to decide that for yourself depending on what state you live in, but there is no national law that penalizes gamblers, that I have ever heard of anyway.

I followed this law for a long time at 2+2, must of read hundreds of posts from real lawyers and tax people there analyzing the law, and I am sure about the legality issues.

Yes it is illegal for players who win money gambling to not declare the money on their tax forms. If you win money doing any gambling, you owe taxes on it.

Pinny, etc. won't do business because of the w...ire act and because of P...A...SPA. Pinny decided it was not worth the fight with the US DOJ to do business with Americans anymore. Other books decided it was worth it and their owners stay out of the US and try to lay low, unlike Bodog in their early years.

[WileOut]

To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% sure why online books will do certain transactions and won't do others, I am not an insider and I don't know the motives. All I know is what I have typed and I know its not illegal at the federal level for a player to gamble or transfer funds. At the state level it varies from state to state as far as wagering goes. I don't think moving funds is illegal in any state but all I am mostly familiar with are my own state laws.

But don't take my word for it, research it yourself. There are thousands of articles about this at various places.

Let me make myself very clear here. Don't listen to anything I typed. You do your own research on this subject and make your own judgments about what it is legal for you to do. The stuff I typed is what I gathered myself through my own research about gambling laws.

[BigdaddyQH]

REad 18 USC Section 1084. Here is subsection a: "(a) Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering knowingly uses a wire communication facility for the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest, or for the transmission of a wire communication which entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

Now that is about as broad and vague as you can get, but it is the title that allows the feds Carte Blanche in the gaming industry. The bottom line is that you can not win if the feds want you. The cost would be astronomical, as pointed out by WileOut.

Again, the solution is for the Government to legalize on line gaming in the U.S. using U.S. based books and casino's only. This gives the feds a whole new tax base to tap. Remember, every game you play on an on line "casino" is considered to be a slot maching, not a game. So you guys who think you are playing blackjack and poker are actually playing against a machine, not againt real people or a real dealer. This is how the feds make the determination.

There is a movement to allow the states to legalize on line wagering. New Jersey is actively seeking to do so, allowing on line wagering in their casino's. Iowa is also reportedly looking into the same thing. As far as sports books go, their may have to be a change in federal law to allow that. The good news is that the movement is on.

[WileOut]

What you just put up is the W....I...RE aaact. It is applied to those who are bookies. I don't believe its ever been applied to small time gamblers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

"The business of betting or wagering" is translated to "the business of being a bookie". So everything after that applies to bookies. But you are correct in that the govt can really stretch some laws if they want somebody.

It does sound like it can be applied to different situations but I think it is meant for just bookies.

[BigdaddyQH]

It is not illegal to place a wager, but it IS illegal to transfer the funds.

It pains me but he is correct.
BigDaddy, I live in NY. I have no access to vegas.
We use offshore books because we have to. The purpose of this site is to rate the offshore books and provide a forum for complaints and disputes when they arise. All though some of your info is accurate your redundant message of just bet in vegas is getting old. You wanna be my agent out there or put me on with someone who does??? If not can you save all your vegas is the holy land crap.

I and my associates, want you to be able to wager on line, legally, and safely. The best way to do this is to legalize on line gaming in the U.S. and specifically limit the gaming sites and sports books to U.S. based sites. Have these sites fall under the jurisdiction of the United States Government. Allow the casinos in Las Vegas and other states to operate these sites. The advantages? We will not have page after page of complaints about off shore books, and how they screw players in any one of hundreds of ways. The disadvantages. If you are a consistant winner, you WILL have to pay taxes on your winnings. This is our goal. If that flake Barney Frank had not abandoned us, we would be a lot closer to that goal today. He was suppose to lead the way in the House for legalized on line gaming. Instead, he flaked out.

[FishFace5]

BigDaddy I still havent figured you out.
It seems you make 1 good post and then 1 real bad 1 or even a mix of the 2 in a single post.
Poker is just as illegal as betting with any offshore book and is most certainly played against other players.
Just legalizing or regulating gambling does not solve our problems. Our greedy ass government wants to tax these gambling winnings as normal income and smash us the standard 25 or 30%. Other governments treat it as a lottery tax and take 5%.
Who here is gonna turn a profit after coughing up 30% of there winnings?????
For me its fine just the way it is. If you have a GREAT year you better be reporting if not hopefully we just keep flying under the radar.

[Vince Lombardi]

What the ****? Why not do everything on the net or use moneygram? Meeting a runner at BestBuy? Might as well play with a local.

[THEGREAT30]

BigDaddy I still havent figured you out.
It seems you make 1 good post and then 1 real bad 1 or even a mix of the 2 in a single post.
Poker is just as illegal as betting with any offshore book and is most certainly played against other players.
Just legalizing or regulating gambling does not solve our problems. Our greedy ass government wants to tax these gambling winnings as normal income and smash us the standard 25 or 30%. Other governments treat it as a lottery tax and take 5%.
Who here is gonna turn a profit after coughing up 30% of there winnings?????
For me its fine just the way it is. If you have a GREAT year you better be reporting if not hopefully we just keep flying under the radar.

He is another of the many points whores who adorn this place these days

[THEGREAT30]

You should only play on the big places like sportsbook.com or bwin.com and not with those smaller sites that can scam you like this.. hope you resolve this issue!

[remove off-site images]

Joke

[triqy]

Still no resolution?

[BET THE HOOK]

I think I am gonna go back to my old book. I have sent emails to Richard and my acct manager and still getting shafted. I know Richard is out of the country but hoped he was like me and checking my business email. Charles has turned into a little Phil and could not care less how they treat the customer. If they were in the US and had to see us face to face they never talk to us in the tone they do. Not to me anyway.

[vitalyo]

I know Richard is out of the country but hoped he was like me and checking my business email.

This is a bit strange . Reading "Richard is out of the country" more then ones . Numerous issues arise with BP in the last few days . I should say serious issues .
How ever Richard is yet to reply to any of this trends, been a manager for BP i am sure he can access any account and obtain any info that he needs in the matter of 5min or less or talk to his staff . Now days you can be in China and deal with a most of the situations like been at home . Least that he can do just to come out and say look guys i am aver of your problems give me some time i will deal with it , or i should be back in my office in this many days , or whatever ... I am sure he has an access to internet . Any big company will get in touch with their top manager right away (it's not even an option) they have to report "swings" like the one above .Or they can ruin them self. This is a serious issue and we are yet to see BP representative . Numerous complains and guesses on hackers ,security bridge ,crooked employees ,BP stealing money . And BP is closing their eyes on all of this trends to reassure that players funds safe . For what ever reason they choose "it's all good".
Kind of sucks . Book doesn't even care about their reputation .

quote from Greek
"Letter To The Greek Sportsbook Players"
"it is better to lose an eye than to lose your name or reputation".

http://www.thegreek.com/introletter.asp

My 2 cents .

[FishFace5]

He is another of the many points whores who adorn this place these days

The only thing your great at is running your mouth.
Love the internet tough guys.
You contribute less than most yourself so save your crap about all the "point whores"

[gman2114]

it is like caddyshack here. 25k cheque. i dont have time to pick it up. i am sending my 3rd cousin twice removed to get. password vinny. meet at bestbuy? gambling asile 4.

this is all a scam. if 25k is not enough to go pick up yourself then it not real money. all a scam.

[philswin]

Bet Phoenix will be the new Bet Cascade - Richard has plenty of experience

[THEGREAT30]

Bet Phoenix will be the new Bet Cascade - Richard has plenty of experience

Not a great endorsement there

[polskboy]

it is like caddyshack here. 25k cheque. i dont have time to pick it up. i am sending my 3rd cousin twice removed to get. password vinny. meet at bestbuy? gambling asile 4. this is all a scam. if 25k is not enough to go pick up yourself then it not real money. all a scam.

i think the same way

[pimike]

He is another of the many points whores who adorn this place these days

[KGambler]

I gotta admit, back when I first saw this post I didn't believe you. Now that BP has pulled a similar scam on me, I am a believer. Yeah, too late

Anyway, you mention that you are/were receiving help in your dispute from another forum. I am unable to PM you on here, so I'll ask here. Can you tell which forum?

If you can, please unblock your PM box.

Thanks.

[ShamsWoof10]

Where are all the BetPhoenix JOCKERS now!!!???

[joe blow]

Who doesn't have time to pick up $25k
I think your brother received the funds,you guys split it.Now your trying to get paid twice...
I rule for the book

I am no BP fan either,they lied to me about my rollover not being done.But after i did it ,i did get paid.But i would never bet there again

[tachi]

I am no BP fan either,they lied to me about my rollover not being done.But after i did it ,i did get paid.But i would never bet there again

you are missing opportunities to win money. (esp. on soccer)
sometimes Pinny is -110 ,BP is -101
and this with the standard juice at BP.
this is the reason they are slow paying
with moneybookers and neteller.

[Dark Horse]

Who doesn't have time to pick up $25k

Bingo.

[Fishhead]

WOW, what a thread

[BigdaddyQH]

you are missing opportunities to win money. (esp. on soccer)
sometimes Pinny is -110 ,BP is -101
and this with the standard juice at BP.
this is the reason they are slow paying
with moneybookers and neteller.

Are you trying to convince us that BP is a slow pay because they give reduced juice for some Mickey Mouse Soccer games? Another experienced voice heard from.

[MileHigh_Club]

so the big question is :

Did u get this resolved genius ?

[Kitt3n]

Ok, some of these words mention here confuse the hell out of me. Guess it will take some time before I speak the gamblers lingo.

[bad_ass]

Ok, some of these words mention here confuse the hell out of me. Guess it will take some time before I speak the gamblers lingo.

I too just started out gambling .. lol.. sometimes I dont get things they're talimg but you'll have to get used to it.
good luck!

[DBurton81]

Stick to BetJamaica and will have none of these issues

[jetsjets1028]

i call bs on that

[flyingillini]

Whatever happened with this? Was it a real story or just another made up story bashing a book?

[BEANTOWNJIM]

I AM BULLSHIT AT THAT RAT BASTARD RICHARD I HEARD THEY OWN THE EOG FORUM AT LEAST PART OWN IT I AM SENDING THESE F-CKS MONEY AND I CANT POST IN THE FORUM

I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF RICHARD BROUGHT IN HIS OLD BUDDY LENNY FROM CASCADE SPORTSBOOK TO HELP HIM SLOW PAY THE CUSTOMERS.

I AM REALLY DOWN ON BET PHOENIX THEY WONT GET A PENNY FROM ME EVER AGAIN I SEND THEM MONEY AND I AM BANNED AT THE FORUM THEY OWE F-CK OFF