Matchbook downgraded to B-

[Bill Dozer]

Matchbook payouts have been good outside of a speedbump a few months back. Rumors and other factors aside, let's see what these books do over the next few weeks.

What Justin7 says is what I heard 8 months ago. SBR stood firm with their A- rating then. Now MB stops paying SBR, and their rating goes down. It was posted many months ago that MB had new ownership and after settling with credit players, all monies going forward would be guaranteed. I also read at another forum from a credit player at MB. Says MB is short on cash and will take 4-6 weeks to pay.

WSEX wasn't 4 months behind in payouts and was an A- 8 months ago too. I don't know where "it was posted that MB had new ownership" but it wasn't at SBR. It sounds like a website doing PR for a book that was paying fast but linked to one that wasn't.

[yellowman]

The downgrade to B- is significant because that's the lowest rating I'll play at these days (used to play at lesser Books but was getting burned too often). And if Justin7 says they are more likely a C- Book that confirms that the downgrades are indeed behind the curve. Sure MB is paying on time now, but what happens after Football is over and many decide to withdraw? If their liquidity doesn't pick up with the Hoops, we may be seeing the beginning of the end for MB.

I don't play NBA, but it does seem their NBA liquidity is lacking...not sure why. However MLB seems very good...I think they have a reputation as a good MLB book...that will be the test for me. Honestly I can't figure out why anyone would NOT play there or at least have MB as one of their top 3 outs...Pinnacle is the only one even in the same ball park as far as lines go and MB beats them handily most of the time. I get my offers matched no prob in NHL and NFL.

I am surprised that someone hasn't opened up an exchange - it's such a good value for bettors and a good moneymaker for the owner (when run right)...I do like MB and will stay with them but if a better option opened up, I'd sure like. Imagine shopping lines between 3 or 4 exchanges...OMG I'd be in heaven. I am keeping an eye on Betmaker, but they don't seem to be catching on at all...plus their fees are outrageous ATM...

[Dark Horse]

Justin rates them at C- .

Pay attention. Dangerous territory. SBR can downgrade a book very fast.

[Dark Horse]

Fishhead,

I have to agree with durito on this one. I cannot comment on my sources, but my "personal" Matchbook rating is about c-, and possibly heading down. I would not post up here at this time.

I have had two different sources (both of which are very reliable) warn me that MB had debt it cannot sustain. I have seen problems on the credit side that confirm this.

They have a great product that can be very profitable if managed properly. However, they hit some nasty speed bumps on the way, and I want to see how they recover.

I will not answer any other questions on MB. The information I received was not in the capacity of an SBR mod, and a condition of receiving this info is that I not disclose more.

Question. Did Matchbook decide they no longer want to advertise here, or did SBR refuse their continued advertising?

[blix177]

Man if Matchbook disappear it would be even worst than when Pinny left the States. MB is the only place I can place bet with fair value to +EV. Suppose I place $10k bet, I would have lost 250 at pinny at half juice and 500 at most other places.

[UV82]

Man if Matchbook disappear it would be even worst than when Pinny left the States. MB is the only place I can place bet with fair value to +EV. Suppose I place $10k bet, I would have lost 250 at pinny at half juice and 500 at most other places.

You mean it will be like the end of the world

[durito]

Fwiw i put in for a 9k transfer to bookmaker after reading this and it was done in 10 minutes

[UV82]

they may be good but there is a lot of smoke around them, so I would be cautious too.

last night I have withdrawn $2500 into moneybookers and it took a reminder after 18 hour + 5 minutes after the reminder.

If things go wrong they can go wrong in one day, doesnt have to be a slow death like WSEX.

[JoeVig]

1/18/2010 01:18 PM
matchbook downgraded from B to B-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12/30/2009 10:35 AM
matchbook downgraded from A- to B

Dozer, Justin, et al,
Suggestion: I would prefer to see explicit notes in the ratings article when a book is moved (up or down). It's a little difficult (albeit informative) to have to hunt through the threads and find out the why's. Both of these moves had no comments that I saw.

[20Four7]

WWTS

WSEX

ACES GOLD


Three giants in their hay day..............

You forgot CASCADE A+ at one point......

[Fishhead]

You forgot CASCADE A+ at one point......

YES

I've been very fortunate to only lose money at ACES GOLD in my long tenure offshore............and I routinely have 100,000+ offshore.

[tltaylor89]

cascade was the saddest

[SPECULATOR 13]

Fishhead,

I have to agree with durito on this one. I cannot comment on my sources, but my "personal" Matchbook rating is about c-, and possibly heading down. I would not post up here at this time.

I have had two different sources (both of which are very reliable) warn me that MB had debt it cannot sustain. I have seen problems on the credit side that confirm this.

They have a great product that can be very profitable if managed properly. However, they hit some nasty speed bumps on the way, and I want to see how they recover.

I will not answer any other questions on MB. The information I received was not in the capacity of an SBR mod, and a condition of receiving this info is that I not disclose more.

Thanks for the tip Justin,i respect and trust your opinion because your credibility cannot be question,therefore for you to come out as strong as you did is enough for me to bail out.All i had to bet with last September was 600u$,i got 3k now with MB,that's all i have!!
I was planning to built on that but i am going to stop betting all together till next September,because there isn't a day that goes by without some upsetting news to come out.I notice that it wasn't the same people that where there when i 1st join in Aug.07,they seem to take everything as a joke.They give me the impression that they take a whole lot for granted.I have been having a bad feeling for while now and i reach my limit.
Hopefully by next September the anti-gambling laws would have been repealed and therefore bring stability back to the offshores.
Also by that time the final nail in the "New Las Vegas" coffin:
CITY CENTER will have been firmly planted,ushering in the process the rebirth of Las Vegas as a sportsbooks centric city as it was in it's golden days between (1980-1996) with M Casino heading the parade.
I think it is unfair for some to attack you as some sort of company shill just because you are saying things they don't want to hear

[durito]

Also already got a tracking # for a check requested monday.

They certainly don't appear to be broke or even slightly slow paying.

[Dark Horse]

Also already got a tracking # for a check requested monday.

They certainly don't appear to be broke or even slightly slow paying.

It's an exchange. lol The topic shouldn't even be on the table. And yet, there it is.

For an exchange to get to the point where its financial security is seriously questioned, by SBR, is unbelievable. This is not remotely in the same category as a book being in that position. The level of mismanagement at an exchange would have to be staggering. That is, if they kept to what an exchange is supposed to do. Apparently they are far more 'creative' than what they want traders to know. The first red flag was when they started to f*ck with their fee structure. An exchange should be as boring as a bank (bad example, these days, but you get the point).

[coldhardfacts]

It's an exchange. lol The topic shouldn't even be on the table. And yet, there it is.

Not exactly true. They have to invest their deposits somewhere, don't they? It's hard to believe they, like virtually all other businesses, weren't affected by the worldwide economic collapse. Unless they kept the majority of their funds in FDIC insured American banks, which is highly unlikely.

That being said, I agree with Durito - no withdrawal problems for me so far, or anyone I know of. But I greatly appreciate the caution flags raised by Bill and Justin. For those who are critical of SBR, just be thankful that there's a site like this that's watching out for the players and keeping an eye on the books. I know I am.

[Thremp]

Investing player funds is epic stupid.

[aceking]

matchbook is still safe

[coldhardfacts]

Investing player funds is epic stupid.

How big do you think their mattresses are?

[Fishhead]

Also already got a tracking # for a check requested monday.

They certainly don't appear to be broke or even slightly slow paying.

There has never been a question on their paying ability............

I have faith in Macthbook, but just because they pay does not mean that tommorrow or next week that they will.

However, it sure beats SLOW paying and NON-paying books.............so in that regard, it is a positive.

[katstale]

Except for my desire for liquidity on ncaa hoops, i have seen virtually nothing for last 6months that would scare me.

[blix177]

Except for my desire for liquidity on ncaa hoops, i have seen virtually nothing for last 6months that would scare me.

For the last 3 days, most NCAAB games are around nickle juice to 2 cent juice 10 min before game time. Also I was able to clear $1200 on both side of the line on the same game with -102/-102 by seeding. So there is still demand.

But there isn't many people seeding over $1k on NCAAB.

[FreeFall]

Not exactly true. They have to invest their deposits somewhere, don't they? ...

Not if they are running it like a true exchange they don't... They just need to sit back and move money too and from their book. Why invest when you get .08% on all bets WITHOUT EVEN HAVING TO MONITOR LINES. They just sit and collect. All they have to do it open the "market."

[Dark Horse]

Upon further reflection, the Martingalian speed with which they have increased rollover, from no rollover, to 1x rollover a few months ago, to 2x rollover last month, and 4x rollover today, tells the whole story. That is how they plan on paying people. Basically, they're down to a ponzi scheme. If they get in deeper trouble, they'll just increase rollover more.

[coldhardfacts]

Not if they are running it like a true exchange they don't... They just need to sit back and move money too and from their book. Why invest when you get .08% on all bets WITHOUT EVEN HAVING TO MONITOR LINES. They just sit and collect. All they have to do it open the "market."

Yea, I see that. But let's say you and I and 998 other people send them $2000. They now have $2M in cash, only a percentage of which they are likely to need to access in the short term. They aren't going to just sit on the $2M, are they? One would hope they'd keep a fairly high percentage in safe, low yield, Government backed accounts, but who knows? Does the host country (Antigua) have laws which they enforce regarding sportsbook liquidity and maintenance of deposited funds?

[Thremp]

Actually, they should sit on the money. It isn't their money. They're holding it for players... allegedly.

[Scooter]

1/18/2010 01:18 PM
matchbook downgraded from B to B-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12/30/2009 10:35 AM
matchbook downgraded from A- to B

Dozer, Justin, et al,
Suggestion: I would prefer to see explicit notes in the ratings article when a book is moved (up or down). It's a little difficult (albeit informative) to have to hunt through the threads and find out the why's. Both of these moves had no comments that I saw.

Agreed. Rating changes need explanations.

[bradleysnyder]

i used match book once and had massive problems.Have not went back since

[RogueScholar]

I"m still waiting for the major betphoenix downgrade....... we'll see when that happens.

It'll happen about two hours after BetPhoenix is forced to stop giving those $50 and $100 freeplays to SBR for free. Right now SBR needs them just as much as they need SBR in order to keep the Points Store looking full and not costing them tons of cash. I'm guessing it'll happen right after the Final Four. The same reasons they recently changed the bonus rules are going to affect their ability to give SBR freeplays for nothing.

[Dark Horse]

Agreed. Rating changes need explanations.

In this case I would be more concerned that there is no explanation. If there were, there could be a run on the bank.

Lot of gamblers here. Investors err on the side of caution. Gamblers err on the side of risk. Both make assumptions, but only the gamblers pay for wrong assumptions.

For the record, I shorted the MB 'stock' when they changed their fee structure earlier in the year. Had seen it before at Tradesports. MB had an A rating back then. Now they're B-. Where is TS now?

TS held all player funds in a separate bank account. They never touched it. Unlike MB...

[coldhardfacts]

Lot of gamblers here. Investors err on the side of caution. Gamblers err on the side of risk. Both make assumptions, but only the gamblers pay for wrong assumptions.

Which is exactly why the stock market is correctly referred to as the "world's biggest casino".

[RickySteve]

You forgot CASCADE A+ at one point......

Cascade was never rated A+.

[losturmarbles]

Upon further reflection, the Martingalian speed with which they have increased rollover, from no rollover, to 1x rollover a few months ago, to 2x rollover last month, and 4x rollover today, tells the whole story. That is how they plan on paying people. Basically, they're down to a ponzi scheme. If they get in deeper trouble, they'll just increase rollover more.

wtf are you talking about?

i'm pretty sure the standard policy has been 4x for a while. it's like that for the same reason it is at the greek, because people were using them as a proxy to get a quick payout from a slow paying book. b2b transfer to matchy, then request a check.

they probably showed you some discretion if they didn't enforce it until recently.

[Dark Horse]

They were 1x rollover at the start of football, up from no rollover. They are 4x rollover now, and a poster in this thread mentioned they were 2x rollover a month ago.

The pass-through is probably just a convenient excuse. It gives legitimacy to a policy that would otherwise raise all sorts of red flags. (After all, 1x rollover would not be pass-through).

(4x rollover means funds are in the exchange four times longer than with a 1x rollover, so it buys time).

[losturmarbles]

They were 1x rollover at the start of football, up from no rollover. They are 4x rollover now, and a poster in this thread mentioned they were 2x rollover a month ago.

The pass-through is probably just a convenient excuse. It gives legitimacy to a policy that would otherwise raise all sorts of red flags. (After all, 1x rollover would not be pass-through).

(4x rollover means funds are in the exchange four times longer than with a 1x rollover, so it buys time).

i understand what you are trying to say, but it's still a baseless accusation.

like i said, i'm pretty sure they have been 4x for a lot longer than just the past few months. if i had to guess, almost a year. i don't know for sure because it's never been an issue for me.

but you have to be one degenerate fuk to send money to matchy, bet 1x and then request a payout.

wouldn't it make more sense, that they just wanted to preserve their processor from getting clogged up by degenerates continuously depositing and withdrawing?