BETWAY - new Terms & Conditions rule, WARNING! CANBET TOO!!!

[tartantipster]

htXp://betway.com/help/terms-conditions

1.3.4 Should any player be found to be involved in, or should we suspect any player of being involved in, Match Betting or Arbitrage Betting, We shall be entitled, at our sole discretion, to restrict your future play or withhold all funds due to You and/or de-register and exclude You and/or suspend You as a player on any or all of the Websites.

Note that CANBET (htXp://www.canbet.com/) Are imposing almost identical Terms & Conditions


Complaints coming in:

shouldn't your friends open a topic on sbr and make as much noise as possible?

yes they should, and on mse/tgt/rp too!!! As well as writing to Bookmakers Review & Sportsbook Review, now!!!

today, a friend of mine was told by BetWay that his account has been closed, winnings have been confiscated, and a 10% 'handling charge' had been applied to his moneybookers deposit. He is being accused of "cross-matching with other accounts" (not sure whether this is meant to be other betway accounts or what)

this is the second time in the last month that someone i personally know has been done over by these crooks. I therefore don't have any doubts at all that all the other reports on forums about betway withholding winnings can be taken at face value. The sbr d- rating ("avoid at all cost") is absolutely justified, particularly since their regulator (lga) is unlikely to even respond to any complaints about them.

Wouldn't touch betway with a bargepole now, even though they haven't stolen any of my money, and they keep sending me their weekly offers. Mind you, most of these are pretty crappy anyway, and they all go into my spam folder now.

the one from today has had the account for a few months, all winnings confiscated. Don't think he used any arb service, and don't think he told anyone else what he was betting on, or betting based on tips from someone else. But he was arbing (and definitely not "cross matching" with another betway account).

Not sure about the details of the other chap.

couldn't agree more - but the point is, they have given themselves the "right to steal" (see first post in this thread) and there appears to be no regulatr etc that will put a stop to it. Therefore the only option is to avoid them like the plague.

this is a bloody disgrace & bloody frightening!!! This man should appeal at once, if not successful he must go to court immediately - the courts will not see it betway's way ~ this is theft pure and simple!!!

They closed my account about 2 months ago. I had about £130 in there (which i did not get).
I only had 1 account and they shut my account saying my mobile number was registered with another account, i could not prove it wasn't obviously. They gave me the account id of the other person as well, which makes no difference. There was nothing i could do about it.

Bunch a stealing ars* holes

Full story here:
htXp://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/213926-betway-refusing-payout.html

What does it matter if someone was arbing them? They made an offer by publishing the odds and the punter accepted them. How can they subsequently claw back the winnings?

Certainly they can limit bets or close accounts later on, at no loss to the customer, but stealing back winnings is pure theft in my book.

You are exactly right here! They can limit you, close your account, but must pay you your winnings and deposit in full! I'm furious!!!

Always the sign of a struggling bookie. Don't canbet have a similar clause?

YES they do!



Cc'd to: BMR/SBR/TGT/RP/MSE

[chemist]

I see no evidence that canbet is involved in this. Are you just trying to attract attention?

[Justin7]

I just read Canbet's rules, and found nothing on it... Maybe someone else should double check.

I have a complaint open right now against Betway. The player was "suspected of betting an arbitrage", his account closed, and his winnings confiscated.

[tomcowley]

Should just make it simple.. any cashout for more than the deposit amount will be denied.

[tartantipster]

I see no evidence that canbet is involved in this. Are you just trying to attract attention?

Canbet are not involved in this incident BUT you must be aware that they are imposing almost identical Terms & Conditions - in their Deposit Bonus Rules. I cannot locate the thread & link therein on MSE to back this up. I'm hoping that this will surface soon and I can attach it. Thanks.

[tartantipster]

I just read Canbet's rules, and found nothing on it... Maybe someone else should double check.

I have a complaint open right now against Betway. The player was "suspected of betting an arbitrage", his account closed, and his winnings confiscated.

Canbet are not involved in this incident BUT you must be aware that they are imposing almost identical Terms & Conditions - in their Deposit Bonus Rules; I should have made that clear. I cannot locate the thread & link therein on MSE to back this up. I'm hoping that this will surface soon and I can attach it. Thanks.

EDIT: Justin7, please see, Today, 08:08 PM, Post #8. Thanks.

[Dunder]

What is most ridiculous about this is that Betway actually pay sites like Oddsportal.com which have entire sections dedicated to "Sure Bets" (i.e. arbitrage opportunities).

They could "suspect" anyone who uses odds comparison sites (mostly value bettors) of being an arbitrageur. I have a very rarely used account with Betway. I think I will express my concern with them about this clause. Will report back if anything interesting in their reply.

[chemist]

I just read Canbet's rules, and found nothing on it... Maybe someone else should double check.

I have a complaint open right now against Betway. The player was "suspected of betting an arbitrage", his account closed, and his winnings confiscated.

The only thing I could find in the promotion rules is

3.1 Before any withdrawals are processed, play will be reviewed for any irregular betting patterns e.g. placing of equal or zero margin bets, or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular wagering for bonus wagering requirements. Other examples of irregular betting for wagering requirements include, but are not limited to, placing single bets using the entire (or majority) of your account balance on a single bet, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance.

I'm not sure what "equal or zero margin bets" is. I assume "hedge betting" means betting both sides of a proposition at Canbet. This is a fairly common bonus rollover condition. The last quoted sentence seems like it's trying to stop people arbing their whole balance out in one bet, but whose balance is going to be mostly bonus? Their bonuses aren't that generous.

[tartantipster]

What is most ridiculous about this is that Betway actually pay sites like Oddsportal.com which have entire sections dedicated to "Sure Bets" (i.e. arbitrage opportunities).

They could "suspect" anyone who uses odds comparison sites (mostly value bettors) of being an arbitrageur. I have a very rarely used account with Betway. I think I will express my concern with them about this clause. Will report back if anything interesting in their reply.

Exactly! You are so right! And they are on BetBrain, the mother of all "Sure Bet" sites.

[tartantipster]

The only thing I could find in the promotion rules is
I'm not sure what "equal or zero margin bets" is. I assume "hedge betting" means betting both sides of a proposition at Canbet. This is a fairly common bonus rollover condition. The last quoted sentence seems like it's trying to stop people arbing their whole balance out in one bet, but whose balance is going to be mostly bonus? Their bonuses aren't that generous.

YES! Thank you so much chemist! That is the one I meant.

htXp://www.canbet.com/help/sportsbook_promocompetition_rules.aspx

3. Irregular Play

3.1 Before any withdrawals are processed, play will be reviewed for any irregular betting patterns e.g. placing of equal or zero margin bets, or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular wagering for bonus wagering requirements. Other examples of irregular betting for wagering requirements include, but are not limited to, placing single bets using the entire (or majority) of your account balance on a single bet, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance.

3.2 The Sportsbook shall reserve the right to decide at its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular bets" for bonus wagering requirement purposes, and may at any time withhold any withdrawals where irregular play has occurred in order to meet wagering requirements.

Canbet going the same way as BETWAY? Will this be part of their main T&C's soon? Will others follow suit?

[Dunder]

Well, I did email Betway. Their (somewhat useless) response is below. Looks to me as if they are looking for excuses to avoid paying up. Personally, I will take the respondents advice and avoid Betway even though I don´t do arbs.

quote
Hi Alan, Thank you for contacting Betway Support about our Terms and Conditions. In fact, you have raised a very interesting point here. The difference between arbitrage bet and the way odds comparison website works is on thin line. In general, I would say that if you are using comparison websites, there is a good chance that our fraud team considers your activity suspicious and systematically close your account under the rule that you have underlined in your email. You may certainly be using comparison websites on a very ethical basis, however, you will never really know if another player is using the same website as you and this would be an obvious arbitrage bet scenario in our view. I would consequently not recommend that you use comparison websites when betting at Betway as this may have irreversible consequences for both parties. Please do not hesitate to contact our support team if you have any queries or comments. We hope that you will find this information helpful and wish you a good evening! Thank you for choosing Betway.com! Best Regards, xxxxxxx@ Betway.com
unquote

[Toit]

I have a complaint open right now against Betway. The player was "suspected of betting an arbitrage", his account closed, and his winnings confiscated.

Justin, is there any contact between you and their management?
Are they cooperating?

How on earth are they going to prove that someone is betting an arbitrage and is not just shopping for the best line for a chosen match?

[Toit]

Well, I did email Betway. Their (somewhat useless) response is below. Looks to me as if they are looking for excuses to avoid paying up. Personally, I will take the respondents advice and avoid Betway even though I don´t do arbs.

quote
Hi Alan, Thank you for contacting Betway Support about our Terms and Conditions. In fact, you have raised a very interesting point here. The difference between arbitrage bet and the way odds comparison website works is on thin line. In general, I would say that if you are using comparison websites, there is a good chance that our fraud team considers your activity suspicious and systematically close your account under the rule that you have underlined in your email. You may certainly be using comparison websites on a very ethical basis, however, you will never really know if another player is using the same website as you and this would be an obvious arbitrage bet scenario in our view. I would consequently not recommend that you use comparison websites when betting at Betway as this may have irreversible consequences for both parties. Please do not hesitate to contact our support team if you have any queries or comments. We hope that you will find this information helpful and wish you a good evening! Thank you for choosing Betway.com! Best Regards, xxxxxxx@ Betway.com
unquote

That's outrageous.
They can limit the player or show him the door, but confiscating funds is outright theft.

[Justin7]

Justin, is there any contact between you and their management?
Are they cooperating?

How on earth are they going to prove that someone is betting an arbitrage and is not just shopping for the best line for a chosen match?

Not any more.

And with a bullshit rule like this, they don't have to prove it. "Suspicion" is enough.

[Toit]

Not any more.

And with a bullshit rule like this, they don't have to prove it. "Suspicion" is enough.

That's unfortunate.

But suspicion of what?
Using a comparison site is fraud in their book.

I'm out of there.

[cinpls081]

this is total b.s and the rating of d- is the biggest joke of all you jokers at sbr calling this place d- does not fit the crime this is a joke. Anyone can be suspected of arb betting....run as fast as you can and never go back any winner I'm sure could be considered an arb better....they certainly aren't going to suspect any losing better as an arb bettor what a fing joke. change the rating to F.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Hrrrm, well I occasionally use them cos they have the best price. Guess I email them and have my account closed, mention this thread so they know why.

[Pareto]

This new policy is insane.

I was very surprised when Betway was downgraded to an F last year, as they had always paid me quickly.

But I for sure will not be playing there anymore.

[jazzmonkey]

Disgraceful - why should it matter if someone is "arbitrage betting" - they pay people to set the price that they are happy with, what does it matter who is taking that price?

The "suspicion" part is pathetic, allowing them to steal funds at a whim with no proof - obviously done because it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that someone is arbitrage betting unless they have access to the punter's accounts with other sites...which they dont. Clear out your account, close it and dont go back.

[cinpls081]

the funnies thing is you can be talking about pennies. Honeslty +105 and get -103 on the other side. What if you had -7 Ev and +6.5 -103 is that arb betting. By the way the second wager is better over time. Its so stupid...the book can win 50% of the time do they refund you if you lose? This is the single dumbest rule I have ever seen in my life. Its like saying if we want to take your money because you have a brain we are not paying you. And what if you don't bet the other side and just happen to be smart. This is obsurd

[Stifter]

This is just insane. Although I never had any problems with them in terms of slow/no-pay, or confiscating money,
I just had my account closed in the live chat. The guy on the other side was clearly a bit overwhelmed, and explained this rule was not added very recently, and saying this rule is quitte common in the industry.

I don't tough these crooks anymore (the same applies to Canbet). In my opinion they don't have the personnel to check the odds in terms of market average.(I guess there are other ways to do this). With this rule they want to filter out people who are continually taking highest odds with Betway with accusing them of arbing.

I advice anyone to stay far away, and avoid these thieves at all cost.

[Dunder]

In my opinion they don't have the personnel to check the odds in terms of market average.

I would tend to agree. I took a quick snapshot last night. Some of those odds are miles of where the market average had moved to.

[DIF]

BETWAY; you fuxxing joke. you have at least hundreds of surebets/every day. Shall I watch my bets made 10 hours to start- to closing time.

Betway is a joke and Im worried other follow, this is the end for on-line gambling. AVOID BETWAY TO ANY COSTS This is all about human behaviour.

[Toit]

After reading this topic I withdrew a substantial amount of my balance.
I got paid within 24 hours.

I'm not saying the new rule is okay, far from it, but maybe they've used a few people as an example to scare matched bettors off?

[Stifter]

After reading this topic I withdrew a substantial amount of my balance. I got paid within 24 hours. I'm not saying the new rule is okay, far from it, but maybe they've used a few people as an example to scare matched bettors off?

I honestly don't think so Toit. In my vision they want to get rid of the smarter/more winning/odds shopping customers when adding such rules. Their quitte fast payouts is the one thing only that lets me not shout out loud Betway is a sinking ship. But I have a gut feeling this is the case rather sooner than later. If you only look at the mails you get from them almost every day (at least 3 a week) with a 'new and exclusive' casino reload bonus, they must be desperate for cash.

[tartantipster]

TT Says: AVOID!

OK, I've seen enough of Betway's behaviour now. Note above issued.

You know I'm astutely aware of betting linked environments. Balance confiscations, account closures, possible multiple thefts of deposits (..more ongoing..), "as a result of customers opening multiple accounts". I would have said OK to sign-up bonuses & occasional £10.00 freebets some months back, not now!

Their previous rule seems to have been removed **:
"1.3.4 Should any player be found to be involved in, or should we suspect any player of being involved in, Match Betting or Arbitrage Betting, We shall be entitled, at our sole discretion, to restrict your future play or withhold all funds due to You and/or de-register and exclude You and/or suspend You as a player on any or all of the Websites."

This remains:
htxp://betway.com/help/terms-conditions

"“Match Betting” or “Arbitrage Betting” means any way of betting, with or without offers, such as freebets or other offers, that will give the Customer/s a sure win at no risk."

See this:
"1.3.3 You may only open and hold one account at Betway. Duplicate accounts will be unilaterally closed by us. All bets and bonus bets on such duplicate accounts will be void and all funds deposited by you will be returned to you less a 10% handling fee. In the case of a player registering multiple accounts in such a manner that would indicate clear intent to mislead Betway.com as to the true identity of the player concerned, we shall be entitled, at our sole discretion, to withhold all funds due, including initial deposits."

mconley, did you see this**:
"2.10. Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met, unless that is allowed in the specific term of a campaign. Should it be deemed that irregular game play has occurred, we reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings."

TGT

i placed a bet with my free bet and layed it at 6 it won so i lost 100 at betfair but they have no record of it at betway and i still have my free bet
anyone know what i should do

The WEBPAGE link I gave is for the Sportsbook T&C's/Rules. However, it has been pointed out that the Sportsbook T&C's/Rules have been mixed with a few Casino T&C's/Rules, e.g. 2.9 & 2.10. However, Canbet has a similar type of term in their Sportsbook T&C's/Rules to Betway's 2.10, as highlighted in my post on this thread. Bearing in mind Betway's past it is best to be aware of this inclusion.