SBR to conform to the new US law.(old thread from 2006)

[SBR_John]

SBR will create a website for US viewers that will not contain any links or even url's to any gaming companies. We will still maintain the current web site for international visitors.

The SBRForum.com and the http://www.sbrodds.com/ websites will remain as is. We are currently studying the idea of allowing the ads but possibly disabling the link function.

I apologize in advance to our many loyal visitors for any inconvenience while we are implementing these changes.

[imgv94]

Oh shit, I am going to quit gambling. I am scared now..

[Dark Horse]

I don't understand. Providing information about gambling is now illegal too?

[freebie]

if providing sportsbetting info is illegal.
then will beat the prick contest be illegal also?

Damn, I was just starting to like the contest more than last year.

[SBR_John]

The Beat The Prick contest will go on without any changes. Next year, we will have to eliminate the $100 deposit which is really more of a verification method to prevent cheating. I'm sure we can find a subsitute for the verification before next year. But for now, your only enemy is the other 280 cappers .

[scottyy11]

There has been a lot of people saying this is nothing don't worry but I see a hell of a lot of duck and cover going on. I'm trying not to be a fear monger but its getting tough

[SBR_John]

If you are NOT, as the new law states "in the business of wagering" then you have nothing to be concerend about. The A+ books will always take bets and pay the winners promptly. As a player, it would be prudent to play in the larger books for now.

But if you have a website then I think you should conform to the law. The US has every right to expect operators respect their laws and we will certainly do so. There is not a reason to panic for players but for operators there is plenty good reason to conform imho.

We receive about 62% of our traffic from the US market so this law is tough medicine that will have a significant effect on the bottom line.

[durito]

Why would an internationally hosted website be against the law in the US?

Are website owners around the world responsible for their content being legal in all countries that can access it online?

I realize there aren't easy answers to these questions, but I'm trying to make sense of it all.

[isetcap]

I've always been a big fan of SBR but I'm not overstating my opinion when I say this is pathetic.

[Dark Horse]

Will SBR be observing the 270 day period to see 'which way the wind blows', or is this a white flag?

Edit: I'm with Isetcap.

[SBR_John]

Why would an internationally hosted website be against the law in the US?

Are website owners around the world responsible for their content being legal in all countries that can access it online?

I realize there aren't easy answers to these questions, but I'm trying to make sense of it all.

Its a great question.

Lets take some examples. China blocks most gaming sites including SBR. If we wanted our site to not be blocked in China we would have to create a website that conforms to their censorship law. In that case, we choose not to create a website that conforms and they in turn chose to block us. According to the new law the US could choose to do the same if we do not conform. So our choice is to offer a website to their liking or be banned from the ISP's servicing the US market exactly like China. It's tough medicine either way. So the answer to your question is that operators have to create content that conforms with each specific country or have their site blocked. This is common in communist countries and now will be started in the US according to this new law.

Where your servers are or what your citizenship is, is simply irrelevant. Much like a foreign cigarette maker. Lets take an example. In the Philippines cigarette makers are free to advertise on TV. But they can not go into the US market and advertise on TV simply because it is legal to advertise cigarettes on TV in the Philippines, it is not legal in the US.

I suspect when the US orders an ISP to block the first gaming site that this part of the new law will be challenged. Although we are complying, we would strongly consider a legal challenge should the US ever block any SBR website.

[SBR_John]

Will SBR be observing the 270 day period to see 'which way the wind blows', or is this a white flag?

Edit: I'm with Isetcap.

The 270 days is the period that the different departments have to figure out how to enforce the law, its not a grace period.

The law goes into effect when the US President signs it. We intend to be in compliance with the new law the day it goes into effect or as soon as we reasonably can be.

Guys, I doubt anyone feels worse about these decisions than me or the brilliant SBR staff. The cost in terms of pride and even the ability to survive such a drastic cut in revenue is heart breaking to say the least. However, we intend to continue to build great new products and do so within the laws.

[isetcap]

I suspect when the US orders an ISP to block the first gaming site that this part of the new law will be challenged. Although we are complying, we would strongly consider a legal challenge should the US ever block any SBR website.

This is an absurd response to the situation. The US government allows its citizens to access any and every website under the sun. This recent measure has absolutely nothing to do with limiting access to anything on the internet, and it appears that SBR has received unbelievably poor counsel on this subject.

[Bone]

I suspect when the US orders an ISP to block the first gaming site that this part of the new law will be challenged. Although we are complying, we would strongly consider a legal challenge should the US ever block any SBR website.

John - Are you expecting the US to actually attempt to block gaming sites?

[isetcap]

I was certain when I saw the title of this thread that it was a joke.

It's a good one, John. You really had me going.

[jjgold]

Icer I do not think it is a joke

[moses millsap]

The 270 days is the period that the different departments have to figure out how to enforce the law, its not a grace period.

The law goes into effect when the US President signs it.

Was not aware of this. Everybody's got a different take on this deal; I think I'm just going to stick with my money in the big books and hope I don't get royally screwed.

[SBR_John]

John - Are you expecting the US to actually attempt to block gaming sites?

The most respected expert on the subject, Prof Rose, stated yesterday he thinks the US will shy away from this part of the new law. It certainly won't be before the 270 days plus probably a year. There would be a lot of input from the US goverment before they would pull that trigger.

The US government allows its citizens to access any and every website under the sun. This recent measure has absolutely nothing to do with limiting access to anything on the internet, and it appears that SBR has received unbelievably poor counsel on this subject.

Icer, I'm afraid that statement will only be true until this law is signed. This law absolutely orders ISP's to block websites that are engaged in the act of illegal gaming activety.

[durito]

The day the US gov't starts blocking website access is truely a sad day. I just hope the courts overturn something like that.

In the meantime, I'll be on a beach in Panama somewhere.

[Dark Horse]

Icer, I'm afraid that statement will only be true until this law is signed. This law absolutely orders ISP's to block websites that are engaged in the act of illegal gaming activety.

Are you sure about this? This is a very different interpretation from everything I have come across on this matter. The way I understand it from, among other things, watching the entire Friday night Senate session, is that the internet blocking was part of the Goodlatte bill, but did not make it into the current bill.

[scottyy11]

after this how long before they make you yanks start goose stepping behind mein furher bush

[SBR_John]

One clarification if I may;

The new SBR site for US visitors will contain the EXACT information as the main International site. The only difference will be there will be no links, advertisements, phone numbers or email addresses to any gaming business.

Several PM's seem to suggest we are caving in by offering US vistors a watered down SBR site for US visitors. That is not the case at all. US visitors will see the exact content less links and contact info on ALL SBR sites.

[increasedodds]

Unless the owners of this website are citizens of the US or live in the US, I think this is absolutely ridiculous.

If you believe the United States is going to block websites, I've got some sand to sell you in the desert.

If you really believe that, why not just wait till it happens?

I will let you know, kiddie porn has been illegal for about as long as any of us have been alive. Blowing up buildings has been illegal for years. Selling drugs has been illegal for years. Yet, not one kiddie porn site, not one site telling you how to build bombs, and not one site telling you how to make XTC has ever been blocked by the US government.

Just because congress passes a law, it does not void the constitution. The courts uphold the constitution.

Now if the owners of this site are US residents or US citizens, I understand, but otherwise, take the jar off the shelf, unscrew the lid, locate and reattach your balls.

Sean

[scottyy11]

well i am sure the owners will visit the US at some point and dont want to be arrested , if they aren't US citizens.......I understand the move.

[Dark Horse]

SBR John, I just went over Prof. Rose's analysis and unless I misunderstood you about blocking websites, this seems pretty clearcut:

The Act gives ISPs a little more security by declaring that they cannot be convicted of violating the Wire Act, unless, of course, the ISP is operating its own illegal gambling site.

Doesn't look like ISP's will have to block anything.

Full analysis here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7508486

[TLD]

I’m not much of a computer guy so I don’t even understand the logistics of this. How can there be sites on the Internet that are for some countries and not others? If I’m in the United States and I type in the URL for whatever the “international” version of SBR is, what happens?

[tacomax]

If I’m in the United States and I type in the URL for whatever the “international” version of SBR is, what happens?

I presume that the URLs will be the same, but the site will recognise your location from your IP address and divert you to the appropriate content.

[ourbet]

Welcome to my world (or not as is probably going to be the case). I’ve been blocked by Thailand’s Ministry of Information and Communication Technology ever since I started arbing, just over a year ago. I personally don’t think it’ll ever come to US citizens needing the services of www.findnot.com or www.metropipe.net to circumvent ISPs though, mainly because of the points raised by increasedodds’ powerful and well written post.

[pags11]

SBR John,

I appreciate you keeping us updated as to your thoughts as to things...also good to hear that Beat the Prick will go on...

[goldengoat]

bush's spreading freedom in action

our founding fathers are spinning violently in their graves

[SBR_John]

Right Darkhorse. They in all reality won't do much blocking. But I do think you could see a Neteller blocked at some point. It will be their way of combating those out of reach of the law.

I’m not much of a computer guy so I don’t even understand the logistics of this. How can there be sites on the Internet that are for some countries and not others? If I’m in the United States and I type in the URL for whatever the “international” version of SBR is, what happens?

We will not try to IP address identify or force visitors into a certain site. Viewers will choose the appropriate site.

[increasedodds]

To comment on neteller - they are happy to change your account to a canadian neteller account. All you have to do is open a canadian bank account. Both Bank or Montreal and Royal Bank of Canada are happy to comply.

Sean

[natrass]

Did you guys learn nothing from the 1930s prohibition fiasco???

The offshore bookies are the equivalent of the capones and the more you try to make gambling disappear the more it will flourish in a bad way.

Just like there was presumably a whole lot less alcohol consumed during the prohibition, there will be a drop in betting turnovers ... but it wont disappear.

If i was the president, id legalise it and then tax it massively.

Tax is best deterent in the world.

[jjgold]

To comment on neteller - they are happy to change your account to a canadian neteller account. All you have to do is open a canadian bank account. Both Bank or Montreal and Royal Bank of Canada are happy to comply.

Sean

Very few bettors are going to go through that hassle, maybe 1%.

[gummo]

It's less of a hassle than moving to Vegas, Costa Rica or Panama.