Biased SBR ratings

tomcowley · 02-21-09, 09:26 PM

Tote has a complaint over pretty ridiculous behavior pending right now, fwiw.

betpartners · 02-21-09, 09:35 PM

Hi tomcowley, are you refering to the wolverhampton bet +1, i did a search and that appears to be the one.

If it is then the punter that placed that particular bet will never get his money, to think you would get those sort of odds on wolves +1 is crazy, clear error and rules cover that.

Also you called the tote another euro trash book destined for a D

serious mate the tote is a A+ in any persons book, your money cannot be safer with any other book on SBR, dont think there are any others owned by a government are there

All the things that are reason for downgrades , low ratings just dont apply to them.

tomcowley · 02-21-09, 10:24 PM

Sure, he won't win the bet, but the book can't change the spread he's betting on. That's nuts, and they don't even have a rule that allows it anyway. It should be voided.

Justin7 · 02-21-09, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by betpartners

Ok been looking through the the SBR ratings and one thing struck me,

European books dont seem to compare favourably with non European books.

The A+ has 2 European and 9 non European
A has 3 European and 8 Non European

Thanks for the feedback.

One thing I have observed... The European books as a whole are less willing to work with SBR to resolve disputes. I have a hard time recommending any book as "A" if they wont respond to complaints. The ones we get were the ones where players were ignored.

I actually suggested that we only give out "a-" ratings or higher if the book works with SBR to resolve complaints.

Peep · 02-21-09, 11:05 PM

I actually suggested that we only give out "a-" ratings or higher if the book works with SBR to resolve complaints.

Not a bad idea Justin, it puts more pressure on books to be open for discussion. Also, it helps clear up that a "SBR A" is just that, no more or less. Anyone whom you couldn't work with could certainly be a "B" and you could let everyone know the book was solid.

betpartners · 02-22-09, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

Thanks for the feedback.

One thing I have observed... The European books as a whole are less willing to work with SBR to resolve disputes. I have a hard time recommending any book as "A" if they wont respond to complaints. The ones we get were the ones where players were ignored.

I actually suggested that we only give out "a-" ratings or higher if the book works with SBR to resolve complaints.

Hi Justin, thanks for the response

Thats a form of blackmail to me mate, work with us or you wont get an A.

the thing is that the tote as an example has over 500 shops in the UK, they are owned by the UK government, they are a byword for trust in the UK and so any UK person seeing them below a lot of other books just makes us wonder how relevant the ratings are.

they may well not use your service because they utilise IBAS and there are many services online that act as dispute mediators, they must get hounded to explain this to explain that.

You are also mainly an offshore facing forum/service, thats certainly how it looks from all the adverts on here, virtually none from europe.

You may well want to mediate in european books but first impressions are that this site is hardly related to european books.

Maybe you need someone to work with you that can work with european books (not me) who can establish these relations and so on.

The bottom line is the ratings here are dependant on how they work with you and not on how trustworthy they are and so on.

I am not talking just the tote, a quick scan and i can see quite a few with false ratings, this undermines the sbr ratings

If i wanted to use a offshore book then i would use your service to find a good book, but not european books, the ratings are just not accurate enough.

tomcowley, yup they did that wrong if they changed the handicap without giving the punter the option of voiding or accepting the reverse handicap, cant argue with that, but maybe this is a British thing i dont know but anyone taking that bet on Wolves was taking the mick.

But i cant argue with you on that, they were wrong.

durito · 02-22-09, 10:10 AM

It's hard to rate places you can't even communicate with. SBR's rating focus in for USA based players. Most of the members here can't play at Euro books anyway.

I mean BetFair surely deserves an A+, but there have been an occasional complaint and they won't even speak to SBR. How are you supposed to handle something like that?

Stumpage · 02-22-09, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by durito

I mean BetFair surely deserves an A+, but there have been an occasional complaint and they won't even speak to SBR. How are you supposed to handle something like that?

That's a good point, and it's been that way for years or so it seems. Many of the Euro books just couldn't give a rat's ass about SBR, if they know it even exists. Ladbrokes and Will Hill could also care less when I recall disputes they've had in the past with any SBR members.....

betpartners · 02-22-09, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by durito

It's hard to rate places you can't even communicate with. SBR's rating focus in for USA based players. Most of the members here can't play at Euro books anyway.

I mean BetFair surely deserves an A+, but there have been an occasional complaint and they won't even speak to SBR. How are you supposed to handle something like that?

I understand that, but if Betfair have a A+ and they wont speak with SBR why are some others not treated the same way

I know SBR is USA focused then why rate European books if the books are not fairly reflected.

If the only criteria is that they wont speak with SBR then why rate tham at all, that said i do think if SBR wants to cover European books then they should get someone on their staff that can communicate with them.

betpartners · 02-22-09, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Stumpage

That's a good point, and it's been that way for years or so it seems. Many of the Euro books just couldn't give a rat's ass about SBR, if they know it even exists. Ladbrokes and Will Hill could also care less when I recall disputes they've had in the past with any SBR members.....

Again i understand, but if Ladbrokes and W Hills wont communicate then why are they A+ and not Tote as an example.

Seems that the treatment of European books is a little skewed, some are rated highly even if they dont communicate and some are not rated high enough because they dont communicate, strange

tomcowley · 02-22-09, 11:17 AM

One of the big factors in SBR ratings is how fairly books treat players. No US-facing A book would take the shot against a player that Tote has done, much less force the player to regulators/courts to resolve it. Other than BetOnline, which is probably the biggest mistake on the list, the managers of those books basically don't take shots at players, period, and when the book does make a bet-related mistake, it gets fixed to the player's satisfaction every time. I was ripping on WSEX in another thread, but it's just a GIVEN that they won't mess with your bets- I haven't even heard a bet-related complaint about them, ever, and I have that same security with Cris, Greek, Betjam, Matchbook, etc. I haven't played at pig/legendz, but I've never heard a bet-related complaint about them either. You don't have that level of behavior at euro shops. I think the euro-As are there because nobody has complained about the- I've seen one willhill and it was multiaccount related and WH still paid, never seen a complaint against ladbrokes or stanjames, and the only complaint against betfair was really weird. Maybe those behave well enough without dealing with SBR.

By the standards of behavior SBR expects, Tote isn't an A book. I don't know enough about the various euro shops to put them in any kind of order, so there well could be mistakes, but that's just a little perspective on that aspect of SBR ratings.