Wagering Requirement Used to Hold Money Hostage?!?

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  • Thremp
    SBR MVP
    • 07-23-07
    • 2067

    #1
    Wagering Requirement Used to Hold Money Hostage?!?
    Folks, I wanted to open a discussion on what level of limiting was okay. Lets take a scenario.

    Play deposit $100 and receives $100 freeplay with 12x rollover. Player wins nothing from the bonus and increases balance to $2200. The book is upset and limits the player to $5 before gameday and $15 on gameday.

    Is this reasonable?

    What should the WR be lowered to in this circumstance?

    How should this affect books ratings?

    It is clear the book doesn't want to book the players action, but why are they forcing them to complete this rollover? If the bonus hasn't resulted in any winnings, why are they trying to keep this player on board?
  • richsox24
    SBR High Roller
    • 01-10-10
    • 106

    #2
    Originally posted by Thremp
    Folks, I wanted to open a discussion on what level of limiting was okay. Lets take a scenario.

    Play deposit $100 and receives $100 freeplay with 12x rollover. Player wins nothing from the bonus and increases balance to $2200. The book is upset and limits the player to $5 before gameday and $15 on gameday.

    Is this reasonable?

    What should the WR be lowered to in this circumstance?

    How should this affect books ratings?

    It is clear the book doesn't want to book the players action, but why are they forcing them to complete this rollover? If the bonus hasn't resulted in any winnings, why are they trying to keep this player on board?
    Unfortunately, it all depends if this is a SBR sponsored book you are talking about or not. Just curious, how much of a rollover do you have left?
    Comment
    • Krashman
      SBR MVP
      • 07-24-09
      • 3743

      #3
      Originally posted by Thremp
      Folks, I wanted to open a discussion on what level of limiting was okay. Lets take a scenario.

      Play deposit $100 and receives $100 freeplay with 12x rollover. Player wins nothing from the bonus and increases balance to $2200. The book is upset and limits the player to $5 before gameday and $15 on gameday.

      Is this reasonable?
      Limiting players is boarder line scam activity. All books advertise that you can WIN with them but when you do, most of them limit you, they just want losers there. In other words they just want to take your money.

      The only true sport book that I know of that lets you win and never limits you is pinnacle.

      Those that say that a book must limit good players to remain profitable only need to look at Pinnacle to see that they are wrong.

      Originally posted by Thremp

      How should this affect books ratings?
      Books that limit should not rate higher than a B


      Originally posted by Thremp
      It is clear the book doesn't want to book the players action, but why are they forcing them to complete this rollover? If the bonus hasn't resulted in any winnings, why are they trying to keep this player on board?
      The winning player, when severely limited, is more likely to just give up on the bonus and withdraw, thereby voluntarily forfeiting the bonus. So less likely to complain in the forums etc.

      It looks bad if they boot you and revoke the bonus. Bad for business.
      Comment
      • Justin7
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 07-31-06
        • 8577

        #4
        If a player has a 1200 rollover, I'd call major foul if you couldn't meet rollover in 50 bets. So if your limit was lowered to below 24 on gameday, it is a clear foul. Realistically, any book lowering limits below 100 is just doing it to harass a player. If a book doesn't want a player (and the bonus lost) they should just toss the player and pay him. What book did this?
        Comment
        • bubba
          SBR MVP
          • 09-29-05
          • 2432

          #5
          Originally posted by Justin7
          If a player has a 1200 rollover, I'd call major foul if you couldn't meet rollover in 50 bets. So if your limit was lowered to below 24 on gameday, it is a clear foul. Realistically, any book lowering limits below 100 is just doing it to harass a player. If a book doesn't want a player (and the bonus lost) they should just toss the player and pay him. What book did this?
          couldn't disagree more. lowering limits should lower the rollover by the same percentage. there are a few exceptions i suppose. if a player had 1200 rollover with a 1000 limit (basically 1 wager away) lowering his limits to 24, or 100 or even 200 without lowering the rollover is not fair and a shady practice on the books part.
          Comment
          • mtneer1212
            SBR MVP
            • 06-22-08
            • 4993

            #6
            You gonna tell us who the book is?
            Comment
            • skrtelfan
              SBR MVP
              • 10-09-08
              • 1913

              #7
              agree with bubba. there are shit books that limit winners after a couple bets, the lowered limits should lower the rollover.
              Comment
              • Thremp
                SBR MVP
                • 07-23-07
                • 2067

                #8
                I currently have an open SBR complaint and have been previously advised that outting a book during the complaint process is a negative. Hopefully they assist in coming to an amicable resolution.

                Justin,

                Ask Lou. Specifics are all there rather than a general scenario outlined above.

                However, I completely agree. They could simply close my account, but instead they want to hold my money hostage. I actually requested this and was told, "Well I guess you'll have to come up with more plays". When a book cuts your limits by an order of magnitude, there is something fishy.
                Comment
                • Thremp
                  SBR MVP
                  • 07-23-07
                  • 2067

                  #9
                  The book is Bet Horizon.

                  SBR supported their decision to limit me to $50 before gameday and $250 on gameday and felt that the rollover was reachable (the remainder of 48k).

                  I'm not in support of this decision as its clearly absurd.
                  Comment
                  • bubba
                    SBR MVP
                    • 09-29-05
                    • 2432

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Thremp
                    The book is Bet Horizon.

                    SBR supported their decision to limit me to $50 before gameday and $250 on gameday and felt that the rollover was reachable (the remainder of 48k).

                    I'm not in support of this decision as its clearly absurd.
                    clearly absurd and unfair. i cannot understand how a neutral 3rd party can side with the book in such a situation
                    Comment
                    • wtt0315
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 01-18-07
                      • 8037

                      #11
                      so you have to wager 50 bucks on non gameday to achieve a 48k rollover.. dear lord
                      Comment
                      • BigDaddy
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 02-01-06
                        • 8378

                        #12
                        complete bullshit

                        $50 max wagers with a 48k rollover


                        even $250 max on gameday with 48k rollover is absurd

                        i take it justin did not handle the case?
                        Comment
                        • Thremp
                          SBR MVP
                          • 07-23-07
                          • 2067

                          #13
                          Lou handled my case.
                          Comment
                          • Darkside Magick
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 05-28-10
                            • 12638

                            #14
                            Don't heritage own bethorizon?
                            Comment
                            • richsox24
                              SBR High Roller
                              • 01-10-10
                              • 106

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Thremp
                              Lou handled my case.
                              Shocking...Its a wonder how this guy can look at himself in the mirror.
                              Comment
                              • Santo
                                SBR MVP
                                • 09-08-05
                                • 2957

                                #16
                                Decision doesn't make sense to me, but out of interest how much of the $48k is left?
                                Comment
                                • richsox24
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 01-10-10
                                  • 106

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Darkside Magick
                                  Don't heritage own bethorizon?
                                  Yes, hence the ruling that thremp received from Lou the goof. I guarantee that if this was a non-sponsor book that there would be downgrades, warnings, videos, etc.

                                  What Lou and Dozier won't do for a buck. Sad.
                                  Comment
                                  • Thremp
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 07-23-07
                                    • 2067

                                    #18
                                    Santo, I am told there is 18k left.
                                    Comment
                                    • SBR Lou
                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                      • 08-02-07
                                      • 37863

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by bubba
                                      clearly absurd and unfair. i cannot understand how a neutral 3rd party can side with the book in such a situation
                                      His rollover is about 18K and his game-day limits are $250 on most everything.
                                      Comment
                                      • Thremp
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 07-23-07
                                        • 2067

                                        #20
                                        Lou,

                                        That isn't true. It is true for major sports ML/Spread/Total. But for any sort of derivative, it is lower. $100 on an NBA 1H for example. Also, my entire rollover is 48k, not 18k. The 37.5% is what I have remaining. This book has limited my account in continual ways to prevent me from not only: 1) betting at an advantage 2) but to limit my ability to complete rollover.

                                        The absolute largest bet they will now take from me is is .52% of my rollover. Completely ridiculous.
                                        Last edited by Thremp; 11-07-12, 01:17 PM.
                                        Comment
                                        • Thremp
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 07-23-07
                                          • 2067

                                          #21
                                          I really don't understand why a book would limit wagers from a player, but enforce a rollover. It makes NO sense.

                                          Can someone explain this at all? It seems like harassing winning players and holding their money hostage are the only reasons.
                                          Comment
                                          • bubba
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 09-29-05
                                            • 2432

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by sbr lou
                                            his rollover is about 18k and his game-day limits are $250 on most everything.
                                            lower the limits, then lower the previously agreed upon rollover by the same percentage. Really a no brainier. What if he doesnt want to bet the day of game? Either way, he did not agree to this 18k he has left with 250 limits. What is so hard to see here?
                                            Comment
                                            • richsox24
                                              SBR High Roller
                                              • 01-10-10
                                              • 106

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by bubba
                                              lower the limits, then lower the previously agreed upon rollover by the same percentage. Really a no brainier. What if he doesnt want to bet the day of game? Either way, he did not agree to this 18k he has left with 250 limits. What is so hard to see here?
                                              ^^^ Exactly^^^
                                              Comment
                                              • Thremp
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 07-23-07
                                                • 2067

                                                #24
                                                bubba, I should mention that I've completely around 16k at 250s already. It is just that they have further disabled my account to limit the few bets I could place. So to close, Justin7 says major foul, SBR Lou says no big deal (while making some minor errors about the status of my account), and I'm left grinding $50 bets unless I wanna bet major markets on game day. Seems "fair".
                                                Comment
                                                • richsox24
                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                  • 01-10-10
                                                  • 106

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Thremp
                                                  bubba, I should mention that I've completely around 16k at 250s already. It is just that they have further disabled my account to limit the few bets I could place. So to close, Justin7 says major foul, SBR Lou says no big deal (while making some minor errors about the status of my account), and I'm left grinding $50 bets unless I wanna bet major markets on game day. Seems "fair".
                                                  Thats because Justin7 has half a brain and Lou is as scummy and corrupt as they come
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Monitor-Tan
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 02-20-11
                                                    • 4460

                                                    #26
                                                    Looks like we got ourselves a case of:

                                                    Comment
                                                    • Thremp
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 07-23-07
                                                      • 2067

                                                      #27
                                                      Why is there still no SBR comment on my question?

                                                      Justin and Lou clearly disagree. Why no discussion?
                                                      Comment
                                                      • richsox24
                                                        SBR High Roller
                                                        • 01-10-10
                                                        • 106

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Thremp
                                                        Why is there still no SBR comment on my question?

                                                        Justin and Lou clearly disagree. Why no discussion?

                                                        Because Justin was prolly told to be quiet on the matter since it involves a sponsor book and Lou is trying to do 2 things at once...stick his foot in his mouth and count his dirty money.


                                                        Absolutely brutal that sbr doesnt want to help you with such an easy no brain decision.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • cutter2225
                                                          SBR High Roller
                                                          • 07-15-09
                                                          • 187

                                                          #29
                                                          Click image for larger version

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                                                          Its clear SBR will no longer take a neutral position when dealing with a sponsor book or any of its subsidiaries. This includes the ratings for some sponsored books. SBRs motto was taken from Rod Tidwell...Show me the money!
                                                          Comment
                                                          • richsox24
                                                            SBR High Roller
                                                            • 01-10-10
                                                            • 106

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by cutter2225
                                                            [ATTACH]50228[/ATTACH]

                                                            Its clear SBR will no longer take a neutral position when dealing with a sponsor book or any of its subsidiaries. This includes the ratings for some sponsored books. SBRs motto was taken from Rod Tidwell...Show me the money!
                                                            ^^^Exactly^^^
                                                            Comment
                                                            • marcojuiceman
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 05-25-11
                                                              • 2870

                                                              #31
                                                              So Heritage just limited you...??
                                                              dam heritage WTF should i take my money out and contuiue with BM??
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Thremp
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 07-23-07
                                                                • 2067

                                                                #32
                                                                No. Horizon Sports.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • marcojuiceman
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 05-25-11
                                                                  • 2870

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Thremp
                                                                  No. Horizon Sports.
                                                                  Never heard of them unless it was bethorizon who Heritage owns now
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • SBR Lou
                                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                    • 08-02-07
                                                                    • 37863

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Normally a book will just prorate and both parties end the relationship. In this case, Thremp allegedly ignored a warning about how he was betting and ruffled the feathers of the floor.

                                                                    Ultimately, it will not take him very long to simply finish the rollover. That's the quickest path to moving on.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Justin7
                                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                      • 07-31-06
                                                                      • 8577

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Your example wasn't quite the same as your case. There's a big difference between limits of $24 versus $250. Limits of $24 is just to piss off the player. $250 you can at least bet something.

                                                                      I still think pro-rating and closing the account is the better way to go... But if you pissed them off, any book will make your life difficult.
                                                                      Comment
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