[stevenash]

As much as I dislike ESPN (for their political agenda) and as much as I try to steer clear of them as much as possible I'm going to watch the 30 for 30 tonight.

If you've been paying attention to your pal Nasher (and I know you have been because I'm unavoidable even if you don't want to pay attention to me) I have this passion almost obsession with baseball.

Long Gone Summer focuses on the homer run summer featuring Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire (and Barry Bonds as well) Three sluggers with mega power and caught up in the shit storm of anabolic steroids.

The home run derby that was the summer of 1998 that made Barry Bonds almost insane.
I wouldn't say hate but Bonds disliked what NcGwire was doing pretty much because he was white.
Here's one of several quotes that is documented.

"You know what," he said. "I had a helluva season last year, and nobody gave a crap. Nobody. As much as I've complained about McGwire and Canseco and all of the bull with steroids, I'm tired of fighting it. I turn 35 this year. I've got three or four good seasons left, and I wanna get paid. I'm just gonna start using some hard-core stuff, and hopefully it won't hurt my body. Then I'll get out of the game and be done with it."

Another quote from Bonds at a sports writer dinner.

"I have nine writers standing here, McGwire had 200 writers back when he had 30 home runs. What they're doing is huge, phenomenal. Two guys might break the record. I mean, what's the chance of that ever happening again?"

And yet another quote this time Bonds was speaking to a few of his teammates.

"I use that stuff too, the difference is Mac's doing stuff I wouldn't think of."

Bonds jealousy of McGwire was rampant.
He wanted to be the Michael Jordan of baseball and McGwire was stealing his thunder.

My intentions are not to turn this into a "Bonds is a racist" discussion thread but a discussion thread about my favorite baseball summer (1998) from a rare terrific ESPN production.

Then 2015 came along and that replaced 1998 as my favorite baseball summer.
I remember where I was in 1998 when McGwire hit his land mark homer.
I was in a sports bar across the street from Bally's in Atlantic City where an entire packed sports bar had their eyes glued to all the TV sets,

I'm not going to miss this 30 for 30 tonight.

[pologq]

i remember that summer right before college for me. i got on creatine because of how popular it was then.

that homerun chase was exciting and made my summer that year.

[stevenash]

^
Thing is creatine is not a PED according to the World Ant- Doping Authority.
It's always been legal and not banned by MLB

[zam77]

I will watch this. McGuire is one of the most polarizing players of all time. The 89' Oakland A's with the bash brothers, eckersley, ricky, welch, stewart, parker... that team was awesome to watch.

[pologq]

yes i remember. it was the andro that led to the all things with prohormones and designer steroids.

[stevenash]

I will watch this. McGuire is one of the most polarizing players of all time. The 89' Oakland A's with the bash brothers, eckersley, ricky, welch, stewart, parker... that team was awesome to watch.

Thing about McGwire is he doesn't think he should be in the Hall of Fame.
He's pretty much like "take away my power numbers and I was just an ordinary major league player".
He did have a good glove for a 'big man' though.

So did Bonds, they didn't need the crap in my opinion, they had talent to spare without 'outside help'

[The Kraken]

Im glad they used, they made baseball fun to watch. Possibly saved it at that time. BOBDS, Sosa, Mcgwire, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc.... Damn those were the golden years

Lance Armstrong the same, no one watched cycling until Armstrong.

Arnold and bodybuilding.

Anderson Silva and fighting (to a lesser extent bc ufc was growing) but Silva is the goat

[Sam Odom]

Sosa is a Vampire now... Scary

[stevenash]

Im glad they used, they made baseball fun to watch. Possibly saved it at that time.

Many historians believe it did save baseball at that time.
I'm in the camp of the home run barrage did not save the game all together, but it got many, many, and I mean many people excited.
Which is why Bud Selig knew damn well what was going on and turned the other way.
I detest Pete Rose for a lot of reasons but it was A-OK to toss him in the toilet for betting yet turn the other cheek when it came to injecting poison in your veins as long as viewers tuned in, and fannies were being crammed in the seats of stadiums.
Before 1998 many a housewife did not know Mark McGwire from Phyllis Mcguire suddenly he's a household name.

Bud Selig was the epitome of a used car salesman, maybe because that's how he made his fortune, by selling cars.

Lance Armstrong the same, no one watched cycling until Armstrong.

I'm in agreement with you about Armstrong.
I for one didn't give a shit about cycling until he came along.
In my eyes Armstrong was/is a bigger pecker head them all of them, he threatened peoples lives if they dared reported on what Armstrong was really doing, I detest Armstrong more than Bonds, part of Bonds racism stemmed from the burning desire to be the best of the best, I get that, doesn't mean I excuse it but I get it.

Ryan Braun was another one.
He made up lies on how the blood collector botched up his sample, blah, blah, blah.
One of the biggest assholes on this planet are the ones who did wrong, know they did wrong, yet try to blame everyone else but themselves for being wrong.
I'm sorry, take it from someone who has been wrong a lot of times, people respect these words "I was wrong, I messed up and was not thinking correctly when I messed up..." I know if one is contrite and said those words to me, 90 times out of 100 I'll forgive and you'll get a second chance out of me. (as long as it's the first second chance if you know what I mean and I think you do)
Ruined that man. (Dino Laurenzi Jr. was the sample collectors name)

[jjgold]

That story played
Out

Not watching

[stevenash]

That story played
Out

Not watching

Thanks for dropping by Coach.

[jjgold]

Nashy that story so old it is not even funny

Every clip played out over 10000x times

Squares will be watching

[lakerboy]

I will watch this. McGuire is one of the most polarizing players of all time. The 89' Oakland A's with the bash brothers, eckersley, ricky, welch, stewart, parker... that team was awesome to watch.

Yes. I was at the game when canseco hit the ball into the upper deck here in Toronto.

[cincinnatikid513]

can't be worse than the bruce lee one

[stevenash]

can't be worse than the bruce lee one

I'll let you know at 10:00 pm.
This one has a ton of promise.
Can't wait for it.

[DiggityDaggityDo]

It was a great season.

I remember watching NFL games with my Dad, and they would put up a picture in a picture when McGwire or Sosa were up to bat.

My dad HATES baseball and even he was entertained by the home run race that year.

Growing up an an A's fan during the Bash Brothers era it was special for me, even though that mother fukker cheated.

[clockwise1965]

Many people feel this was one of the more entertaining errors of baseball.

[Bcatswin]

Im glad they used, they made baseball fun to watch. Possibly saved it at that time. BOBDS, Sosa, Mcgwire, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc.... Damn those were the golden years

Lance Armstrong the same, no one watched cycling until Armstrong.

Arnold and bodybuilding.

Anderson Silva and fighting (to a lesser extent bc ufc was growing) but Silva is the goat

St. Pierre, Jones is great to.

[The Kraken]

St. Pierre, Jones is great to.

GSP never finished enough fights for my liking, he was too risk averse. but ya he’s gotta be up there in the discussion...

[19th Hole]

Sosa is a Vampire now... Scary

[Heltah Skeltah]

Bonds was a hall of Famer before he started taking steriods. Once he took them he became the best hitter of all time. I don't think Bonds was a racist..more of that he saw the attention MsGwire and Sosa were getting from it. Bonds knew and was justifiably right he was 100x the player those two guys were. Only guy in Bonds class was Griffey in that time. Definitely didn't help Bonds he didn't play the game with the beat reporters..he gave them shit and wasn't giving them stories they needed for their papers. Look at A. Bell another guy that deserves HOF and just because the voters didn't get what they wanted from him they won't vote for the guy..classless

[Bcatswin]

WTF Michael Jackson move? Wonder how he feels with all going on and turning White.

[jjgold]

Lol good one

[MinnesotaFats]

Personally I feel that:

Bonds
McGwire
Sosa
Palmerio
Clemens
Beltre
Sheffield
Canseco

All deserve a special HOF vote by players only.

The ERA was special and different... they saved the game, they weren't alone in this (Brady Anderson, Gregg Vaughn, etc) but these are the men that put up the numbers.

Bonds is the greatest player ever.

Palmerio has 500/3000

Sosa hit 60+ 3 times and never lead the league lol

Canseco was himself a baseball attendance booster

[Bcatswin]

Jr. by far best player in that era imo. Oh yeah no Roids im pretty sure.
And the purest swing in Baseball History Ever. Always respect your thoughts fatty

[Heltah Skeltah]

Albert Bell!! Go take a look at some of those seasons that guy put up. Criminal he not mention or in with some of the best hitters of all time.

[stevenash]

First and foremost, this is an outstanding documentary so far.
It is what a documentary should be, it accurately documents the 1998 season (and deeper than the 1998 season)

Albert Bell!! Go take a look at some of those seasons that guy put up. Criminal he not mention or in with some of the best hitters of all time.

Albert (Joey) Belle for sure deserves a mention for the Hall.
Most are aware of his power numbers, most are not aware of the fact he had a cannon for an arm in the outfield.
For a power hitter he had a solid .295 career batting average and a lofty career OBA as well.

If I had a Hall of Fame vote he would not be on the top of my list but he would be on my list.

Two things are keeping Belle out of the Hall.
One may or not be fair and that is he was a nasty nasty human being in his playing days.

I'll back him up by saying he's publicly admitted he was a nasty person and he has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has mellowed out a ton.

How nasty?
His misogynist outbursts towards Hannah Storm for one.
How nasty, he tried to mow down some teenagers with his car who egged his house on Halloween.
The stories are endless.
I get that Belle didn't want to be pestered by the media, I get that, he was like McGwire, he didn't want the to be surrounded by the media circus. I can understand this but I can't excuse it.
When you are a superstar in any sport, and to a lesser extent a box office matinee idol film star the media circus is a part of the job.
Like it or not you have to deal with it with at least some class.
But I don't keep players off the Hall of Fame ballot for being a colossal jackass.
I'll also defend Belle for not using steroids, he was anti-drug, and never implicated one iota in any steroid controversy.
A-Rod was, Bonds was, McGwire was

I put Belle on my ballot for the reasons I mentioned, the power numbers, the outfield defensive numbers, the batting average, the OBA.

I do put him in the middle of my ballot because he really only played eight full seasons (even though he was in the majors for 12 years.
I can 100 percent relate to as he retired, I suffer from the exact same thing. Severe, and I mean severe osteoarthritis of the hip.
I just had major hip surgery, I can totally relate, that pain you wouldn't wish on Hitler.

We can play the 'what if' game all night with Belle and others who had brilliant careers cut short.
What if Belle played 14 full seasons and not eight?
Then those 380 career home runs look like 540 career home runs.
He hits 540 home runs he's on everybody's Hall ballot, top three. Period.
But he didn't hit 540. He 'only' hit 380 and to some (not me) that is not a 'magic' number.
For that reason (lack of longevity) he gets my vote, just not at the top.

You want to play the what if game?
You can't compare Sandy Koufax to Albert Belle (two different eras, one was a pitcher, one was a position everyday player for openers)
Koufax only pitched nine full seasons, if Belle played 14 full seasons he hits 540 or so homers, if Koufax pitches 14 full seasons he wins 340 games or so.
What if, what if what if....
What's the old joke about if my aunt had a pair of balls.......

I don't think Bonds was a racist..more of that he saw the attention MsGwire and Sosa were getting from it. Bonds knew and was justifiably right he was 100x the player those two guys were. Only guy in Bonds class was Griffey in that time

Bonds bitterness towards McGwire is the reason he's perceived as a racist.
There are no degrees of racism but if there was Joe Morgan is a bigger racist than Bonds ever was.
Belle was nasty, not a racist, I respect Belle's natural talent as he was anti-drug, never used steroids, was never implicated in a steroid scandal.......


I'm in agreement, Bonds was so much more a complete player than both Sosa and McGwire.
Bonds was the second most complete player of his generation.
Griffey Jr. was the best all around player of that generation, followed closely by Bonds.
In third place is everybody else.

Now if you are paying attention with open eyes and a clear mind you are seeing probably the greatest ball player of all time in Mike Trout.
He's doing everything Mantle has done after nine years, Trout is doing everything Bonds has done and Griffey Jr. has done so far.
Nine years is not a small sample size, Trout is a five tool player, excels in all five tools. Speed, defense, power, average, you name it.
Shit, if there is such a thing as a six tool player Trout is it.
All these years of multiple drug testing year in and year out suggests Trout is steroid clean.
He's come back clean every time.

[BigJay]

Sammy Sosa

Looks like if Edward G. Robinson tried to act in blackface but totally fuckked up the make up

[Brock Landers]

That was a very well done documentary

Excellent footage and music

[Bcatswin]

Brocker sharp tonight

[stevenash]

Not that it's a big deal, because it isn't a big deal, but I'm curious as to why a baseball discussion thread would be moved from PT to saloon?

I'm not butt hurt or anything like that, just curious.

[19th Hole]

Not that it's a big deal, because it isn't a big deal, but I'm curious as to why a baseball discussion thread would be moved from PT to saloon?I'm not butt hurt or anything like that, just curious.

~~~~
Agreed. Not like there's a fistful of sports being played.
Moderator's whimsy?

[MinnesotaFats]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz...alue-home-run/

Guy lost his ass on this ball

[Heltah Skeltah]

Not that it's a big deal, because it isn't a big deal, but I'm curious as to why a baseball discussion thread would be moved from PT to saloon?

I'm not butt hurt or anything like that, just curious.

They would rather if you started a thread on how a girl looked or who you'd pick in a lineup. When you start posting at 14hrs straight like some of these handles you get the A treatment