Soon the cops won't need the Patriot Act to Enter Your Home Without A Warrant

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  • RonPaul2008
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 06-08-07
    • 6741

    #1
    Soon the cops won't need the Patriot Act to Enter Your Home Without A Warrant
    ​Can Police Can Kick Down Your Door If They Smell Pot? Some Justices Think So

    Police smelling marijuana coming from behind an apartment door can enter the home without a warrant if they believe the evidence is being destroyed, some U.S. Supreme Court Justices said on Wednesday.

    More than 60 years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police couldn't enter a residence without a warrant just because they smelled burning opium, reports Adam Liptak at The New York Times.

    On Wednesday, during the argument of a case about what police were entitled to do upon smelling marijuana outside the door of a Kentucky apartment, two justices were concerned that the Court may be ready to eviscerate the 1948 ruling which stemmed from a Seattle case.

    ​"Aren't we just simply saying they can just walk in whenever they smell marijuana, whenever they think there's drugs on the other side?" asked Justice Sonia Sotomayor, considering what a decision against the defendant would tell the police. "Why do even bother giving them a search warrant?"

    The old ruling, Johnson v. United States, involved the search of a Seattle hotel room. The smell of drugs could provide probably cause for a warrant, Justice Robert H. Jackson wrote for the majority, but it did not entitle police to enter without one.

    "No suspect was fleeing or likely to take flight," Justice Jackson wrote. "The search was of permanent premises, not of a movable vehicle. No evidence or contraband was threatened with removal or destruction."

    Since the War On Drugs was re-started by President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, the Supreme Court has steadily given police more leeway to search cars, travelers and baggage, reports David Savage at the Los Angeles Times. But the justices have been reluctant to allow searches of homes without a warrant.

    In the new case, Kentucky v. King, police in Kentucky were looking for a suspect who had sold cocaine to an informant. They smelled burning marijuana coming from another apartment -- where Hollis King and his friends were smoking marijuana -- knocked loudly, and announced themselves.

    When they heard sounds coming from inside that made them think evidence was being destroyed, they kicked the door in and found marijuana, cocaine, King, two friends, and some cash, but not the original suspect, who was in another apartment.

    King was sentenced to 11 years(!) in prison, but the Kentucky Supreme Court overturned his conviction and threw out the evidence, ruling that any risk of drugs' being destroyed was the result of the decision by police to knock and announce themselves rather than to obtain a warrant. The Kentucky court ruled that officers had entered the apartment illegally and that the evidence they found should not have been considered in court, reports Robert Barnes at The Washington Post.

    The key issue is whether an "exigent" or emergency circumstance allows the police to enter a residence without a warrant. Sadly but no longer shockingly, Obama Administration lawyers joined the case on the side of Kentucky's prosecutors.

    The police who broke into the apartment "reasonably believed that there was destruction of evidence occurring inside," said Ann O'Connell, an assistant to Obama's Solicitor General.

    Prosecutors for Kentucky and the federal government told the justices Wednesday that the Kentucky court had erred. They claimed there had been no violation of the Fourth Amendment, which bars unreasonable searches, because they claimed police had "acted lawfully."


    But Justice Elena Kagan had doubts about that approach.

    If the court looks only at the lawfulness of police behavior, Justice Kagan said, that "is going to enable the police to penetrate the home, to search the home, without a warrant, without going to see a magistrate, in a very wide variety of cases."

    All the police would need to say, Justice Kagan said, is that they smelled marijuana and then heard a noise. "Or," she added, "we think there was some criminal activity going on for whatever reason and we heard noise."

    "How do you prevent your test from essentially eviscerating the warrant requirement in the context of the one place that the Fourth Amendment was most concerned about?" Kagan asked Kentucky Assistant Attorney General Joshua D. Farley, who claimed the police had done nothing that violated the Fourth Amendment.

    Justice Sotomayor was even more direct, asking "Aren't we just doing away with 'Johnson'?"

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg asked why the police could not simply roam the hallways of apartment buildings, sniffing for pot, knocking whenever they smelled marijuana, then breaking in if they "hear something suspicious."

    "That would be perfectly fine," Kentucky Assistant Atttorney General Farley replied.

    Justice Antonin Scalia revealed some unflattering things about his worldview -- which, God help us, seems to be that of a judgmental 10-year-old -- as he said he was not troubled by the standard the government lawyers proposed. He said that police can't go wrong by knocking loudly on the door.

    "There are a lot of constraints on law enforcement," Justice Scalia said, "and the one thing that it has going for it is that criminals are stupid."

    Scalia said that "criminals" often cooperate with police when not legally required to do so. They might open the door and let officers inside -- and if not, the police can break in, he said.

    "Everything done was perfectly lawful," Scalia said. "It's unfair to the criminal? Is that the problem? I really don't understand the problem."



    4th Amendment
  • Ian
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 11-09-09
    • 6096

    #2
    It's only a matter of time before this gets horribly abused. Any time police want to **** with somebody, whether they have a legitimate reason to or not, they can just say they smelled pot and then knock the door down.

    On a different tangent, with Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy all in their mid to late 70s, an Obama re-election would likely allow him to replace two of the three. If either Scalia or Kennedy goes, that would substantially change Supreme Court decisions for the next two decades. Not that that would cause me to vote for Obama instead of the 3rd party candidates I usually vote for, but it does make him a little less unappealing than the likely Republican alternatives.
    Comment
    • RonPaul2008
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 06-08-07
      • 6741

      #3
      Originally posted by Ian
      It's only a matter of time before this gets horribly abused. Any time police want to **** with somebody, whether they have a legitimate reason to or not, they can just say they smelled pot and then knock the door down.

      On a different tangent, with Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy all in their mid to late 70s, an Obama re-election would likely allow him to replace two of the three. If either Scalia or Kennedy goes, that would substantially change Supreme Court decisions for the next two decades. Not that that would cause me to vote for Obama instead of the 3rd party candidates I usually vote for, but it does make him a little less unappealing than the likely Republican alternatives.
      Why do you think Obama is any better then the Republican alternatives?
      Seriously, what has he done that you like so much?
      Is it locking people up without any legal recourse indefinitely?
      Is it continuing raids of medical Cannabis cooperatives in states where it is legal?
      Is it the pat downs and radiation machines at the airports?
      Is it all the bailouts of foreign banks and other entities?
      Is it the Obama administration joining the Kentucky AG in this very case?

      Seriously, what do you like about this fascist?
      Comment
      • BWest
        SBR Wise Guy
        • 05-05-10
        • 940

        #4
        I say, if you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to fear from your govt. In fact, you should be happy to have the police, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security entering your home without notice at any time to look around so that law and order are maintained and troublemakers are nipped in the bud. Any left wing nutjobs can be identified and dealt with before they do damage. We need more Supreme Court justices like Scalia who will help keep are democracy healthy by arresting and prosecuting people before they commit serious crimes. The more people we round up and put away the safer we will be. Start with low-income persons as they are the ones most likely to commit crime due to their circumstances. Require anyone with an income of $200,000/ yearly (persons who really never commit crime) to participate in "civilian law and order patrols (CLOP)" which will be conducted 24/7 in low income areas. All CLOP members will be required to carry firearms at all times including "off duty" hours. By doing small things like this, we will ensure that the responsible members of society are also it's caretakers. Glad to see we finally have a Supreme Court that is looking out for our constitutional rights.
        Comment
        • Indecent
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 09-08-09
          • 758

          #5
          Originally posted by BWest
          I say, if you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to fear from your govt. In fact, you should be happy to have the police, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security entering your home without notice at any time to look around so that law and order are maintained and troublemakers are nipped in the bud.
          Fine. Let me do that with police officers/government officials at their home and place of work, and we have a deal. I have a strong suspicion that they would never allow this.
          Originally posted by BWest
          Glad to see we finally have a Supreme Court that is looking out for our constitutional rights.
          Re-read your preceding paragraph, and then really think about your last sentence. If your plan held out, would they be upholding the Constitution, or would they be setting it on fire and pissing on it?
          Comment
          • Indecent
            SBR Wise Guy
            • 09-08-09
            • 758

            #6
            Double post - delete please
            Comment
            • rkelly110
              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
              • 10-05-09
              • 39691

              #7
              Yeah bwest, let's see what you will do when they break in, while you're on top of the 'ol lady.

              I would shoot their asses as I would a criminal breaking down my door.
              Comment
              • BstHcpr
                SBR Sharp
                • 01-02-11
                • 377

                #8
                Originally posted by BWest
                I say, if you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to fear from your govt. In fact, you should be happy to have the police, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security entering your home without notice at any time to look around so that law and order are maintained and troublemakers are nipped in the bud. Any left wing nutjobs can be identified and dealt with before they do damage. We need more Supreme Court justices like Scalia who will help keep are democracy healthy by arresting and prosecuting people before they commit serious crimes. The more people we round up and put away the safer we will be. Start with low-income persons as they are the ones most likely to commit crime due to their circumstances. Require anyone with an income of $200,000/ yearly (persons who really never commit crime) to participate in "civilian law and order patrols (CLOP)" which will be conducted 24/7 in low income areas. All CLOP members will be required to carry firearms at all times including "off duty" hours. By doing small things like this, we will ensure that the responsible members of society are also it's caretakers. Glad to see we finally have a Supreme Court that is looking out for our constitutional rights.
                Someone tell me this guy is kidding?
                Comment
                • BstHcpr
                  SBR Sharp
                  • 01-02-11
                  • 377

                  #9
                  Go on scotus blog. If you read the officers statement he said "I heard people moving around and based on my experience I thought they were destroying evidence." This is what caused the exigent circumstance for him to enter the house. If the Supreme court overturns this (which they won't) and the police knock on your door, don't move or answer it, otherwise you'll create an "exigent circumstance" and they will have the right to barge your door in.
                  Comment
                  • Chuck Sims
                    SBR MVP
                    • 12-29-05
                    • 3072

                    #10
                    This shit head Obama now thinks its cool to smash people's door down and barge in without a warrant. Just because they smell pot and supposedly hear people inside moving around.

                    Obviously the Kenyan is thinking about his re-election and it might not look good if he sides with the potheads. Even though their rights were stomped on.
                    Comment
                    • Turd Ferguson
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 08-26-10
                      • 7260

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Chuck Sims
                      This shit head Obama now thinks its cool to smash people's door down and barge in without a warrant. Just because they smell pot and supposedly hear people inside moving around.

                      Obviously the Kenyan is thinking about his re-election and it might not look good if he sides with the potheads. Even though their rights were stomped on.
                      I'm sure that pointing this out is an excercise in futility, but "the Kenyan's" appointees are against this.
                      Comment
                      • golfrulz
                        SBR MVP
                        • 02-02-10
                        • 2425

                        #12
                        Dow hits 30-month high.
                        Comment
                        • subs
                          SBR MVP
                          • 04-30-10
                          • 1412

                          #13
                          Originally posted by RonPaul2008
                          Why do you think Obama is any better then the Republican alternatives?
                          Seriously, what has he done that you like so much?
                          Is it locking people up without any legal recourse indefinitely?
                          Is it continuing raids of medical Cannabis cooperatives in states where it is legal?
                          Is it the pat downs and radiation machines at the airports?
                          Is it all the bailouts of foreign banks and other entities?
                          Is it the Obama administration joining the Kentucky AG in this very case?

                          Seriously, what do you like about this fascist?
                          he even worse than the bush IMO. at least the bush was so blatant and arrogant that he actually opened some people's eyes...

                          obama < bush in the grand scheme of things.
                          Comment
                          • Indecent
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 09-08-09
                            • 758

                            #14
                            Originally posted by subs
                            he even worse than the bush IMO. at least the bush was so blatant and arrogant that he actually opened some people's eyes...

                            obama < bush in the grand scheme of things.
                            I'm not sure I can agree on who is worse, but it's tough to say anything just after one president leaves office and the other is still in office.

                            With that said, I will agree that Obamas blind followers certainly are worse than the Bush supporters of old, if for no other reason they are willing to turn a blind eye to the same type of things they actively condemned Bush for. I can't tell you how many Obama supporters I know who have shut up once I talk about how similar the two are in practice.
                            Comment
                            • Emily_Haines
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 04-14-09
                              • 15917

                              #15
                              Sounds like a good policy for the police to end up with holes in them
                              Comment
                              • Emily_Haines
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 04-14-09
                                • 15917

                                #16
                                Originally posted by BWest
                                I say, if you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to fear from your govt. In fact, you should be happy to have the police, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security entering your home without notice at any time to look around so that law and order are maintained and troublemakers are nipped in the bud. Any left wing nutjobs can be identified and dealt with before they do damage. We need more Supreme Court justices like Scalia who will help keep are democracy healthy by arresting and prosecuting people before they commit serious crimes. The more people we round up and put away the safer we will be. Start with low-income persons as they are the ones most likely to commit crime due to their circumstances. Require anyone with an income of $200,000/ yearly (persons who really never commit crime) to participate in "civilian law and order patrols (CLOP)" which will be conducted 24/7 in low income areas. All CLOP members will be required to carry firearms at all times including "off duty" hours. By doing small things like this, we will ensure that the responsible members of society are also it's caretakers. Glad to see we finally have a Supreme Court that is looking out for our constitutional rights.
                                If anything like this was ever enforced it would bring me to the point where I would violently riot. Unreal that we have trash in our country that thinks this way.
                                Comment
                                • Hotdiggity11
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 01-09-09
                                  • 4916

                                  #17
                                  The PATRIOT Act [Although stripped down a little from the original atrocity] needs be either be seriously reformed or flat out repealed. It is a piece of legislation both parties are responsible for and thus should be attacked for.
                                  Comment
                                  • Ian
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 11-09-09
                                    • 6096

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by RonPaul2008
                                    Why do you think Obama is any better then the Republican alternatives?
                                    Seriously, what has he done that you like so much?
                                    Is it locking people up without any legal recourse indefinitely?
                                    Is it continuing raids of medical Cannabis cooperatives in states where it is legal?
                                    Is it the pat downs and radiation machines at the airports?
                                    Is it all the bailouts of foreign banks and other entities?
                                    Is it the Obama administration joining the Kentucky AG in this very case?

                                    Seriously, what do you like about this fascist?
                                    Your reading comprehension is lacking as much as your understanding of the meaning of the word "facist." Obviously, I was referring in my post to the makeup of the supreme court. Also, obviously, the 4 liberal justices are almost certain to rule against the police here (3 of them were quoted as being against it in your own OP!), and the 4 right wing justices are likely to rule in favor of the police (according to your own post two of them have come out in favor of them). The court's decision on this case essentially rides on the usually conservative Anthony Kennedy, and if he sides with the Scalia wing you can expect the police to start busting down doors. My point, which was painfully obvious the first time around, is that if either Scalia or Kennedy (the two elderly conservatives) retire the President who appoints their replacement will change the whole balance of the court. With Romney, Palin, or another Republican in charge the liberal justices would get shot down on cases like this. With an Obama re-election the outcome is the opposite. Considering the age of the justices involved, and also the length of time involved in some decisions, the outcome of this specific court decision could very well hinge on the winner of the next Presidential election.
                                    Comment
                                    • Dark Horse
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 12-14-05
                                      • 13764

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by BWest
                                      I say, if you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to fear from your govt. In fact, you should be happy to have the police, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security entering your home without notice at any time to look around so that law and order are maintained and troublemakers are nipped in the bud.
                                      Nazi Germany reasoning. Or any police state, for that matter. People like you have no idea what freedom means.
                                      Comment
                                      • subs
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 04-30-10
                                        • 1412

                                        #20
                                        i think he playing devil's advocate - or at least i hope so.
                                        Comment
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