[The Madcap]

I remember detroit lions coach,(I think morningwig) won the overtime coin toss and chose to kick. Then lost without even touching the ball. That was no doubt the dumbest coaching move in the history of the NFL. No doubt.

hahaha. Yeah, I had forgot about that. I think coaching in Detroit makes you go crazy. Remember that guy who went through the drive-thru naked?

[ukbro00]

The timeout ended up meaning nothing, so there is no need for anyone to make a big deal over it.

[The Madcap]

More like Peyton having his guys ready to play.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just had a conversation with a buddy of mine and we came to the conclusion that they should just let Peyton be a player coach use the money they'd spend on a head coach to hire a top notch D-coordinator. But I think you're being a bit quick to underscore Dungy. He had the respect of all his players. Wanting to play and win for your coach is a big time motivator. Hell, Vick's credited him with being one of the biggest influences in his turnaround.

[The Madcap]

The timeout ended up meaning nothing, so there is no need for anyone to make a big deal over it.

What are you talking about? The time out allowed the Jets to collect themselves and figure out what the were going to do. If Caldwell doesn't call that time out the Jets were either going to have to rush their next play or call their own timeout, (their last) which means they'd have been under a shit load of pressure to get the kicking unit out there before the clock ran out. In late game situations having the mind cluttered with pressure/panic does you in more often than the other team.

[Mac4Lyfe]

How come Peyton get's a pass? He threw horrible passes today. If he would have thrown a better pass on 3rd down, they milk clock and win. His 3rd and long run play was stupid, no matter what color you are.

Manning is the one denominator in all this. He can't deliver in the clutch. Yes Indy's defense sucked balls but Peyton failed too.

[Mac4Lyfe]

What are you talking about? The time out allowed the Jets to collect themselves and figure out what the were going to do. If Caldwell doesn't call that time out the Jets were either going to have to rush their next play or call their own timeout, (their last) which means they'd have been under a shit load of pressure to get the kicking unit out there before the clock ran out. In late game situations having the mind cluttered with pressure/panic does you in more often than the other team.

I think the time out was a good call. Did you see Indy's defense? They were gassed and out of position. The Jet's were going up top to Braylon w/o that timeout and would have scored a TD IMO. Indy's defense couldn't stop traffic. Do you really think they weren't going to score or get better field position?

I would have called timeout hopefully to have a few seconds left for Manning to work with. It didn't work out. The real mistake was Peyton not getting that last first down to seal the deal in the first place. Caldwell made the right call but you guys are too much of a traditionalist. Belicheck would have called a timeout in that spot too if his defense was that poor.

[ttrace35]

What are you talking about? The time out allowed the Jets to collect themselves and figure out what the were going to do. If Caldwell doesn't call that time out the Jets were either going to have to rush their next play or call their own timeout, (their last) which means they'd have been under a shit load of pressure to get the kicking unit out there before the clock ran out. In late game situations having the mind cluttered with pressure/panic does you in more often than the other team.

Jets would have ran at least 3 more plays before kicking. No way they would have ended up kicking from there. 30 seconds is forever when you have a timeout to work with.

[Hall2Collie]

How come Peyton get's a pass? He threw horrible passes today. If he would have thrown a better pass on 3rd down, they milk clock and win. His 3rd and long run play was stupid, no matter what color you are.

Manning is the one denominator in all this. He can't deliver in the clutch. Yes Indy's defense sucked balls but Peyton failed too.

Yeah 70.0% completion with a 100+ passer rating and 0 ints is such an awful game

**** him for not throwing for 400 yards and 12 tds with "walk-on Blair White", Jacob Tamme, Reggie "shut down by Revis" Wayne and Pierre Garcon as his targets.

[The Madcap]

I think the time out was a good call. Did you see Indy's defense? They were gassed and out of position. The Jet's were going up top to Braylon w/o that timeout and would have scored a TD IMO. Indy's defense couldn't stop traffic. Do you really think they weren't going to score or get better field position?

I would have called timeout hopefully to have a few seconds left for Manning to work with. It didn't work out. The real mistake was Peyton not getting that last first down to seal the deal in the first place. Caldwell made the right call but you guys are too much of a traditionalist. Belicheck would have called a timeout in that spot too if his defense was that poor.

If there had been more than 29 seconds left to play I might agree with you. But when there's less than 30 seconds to play, and you've only got one time out left, and you still need to pick up a good 6-7 yards to have a real make-able field goal, coaches start having their brains cramp up and players are scrambling around like chickens with their heads cut off. The defense had the advantage in that situation, as they don't have to think. They just have to react. Ask your friends that played football what it was like in those late game situations, they'll tell you the same thing.

[Hall2Collie]

Jets would have ran at least 3 more plays before kicking. No way they would have ended up kicking from there. 30 seconds is forever when you have a timeout to work with.

Well the jets had 2 timeouts really... since Indy called one for them

[The Madcap]

Jets would have ran at least 3 more plays before kicking. No way they would have ended up kicking from there. 30 seconds is forever when you have a timeout to work with.

Yes, 30 seconds is a lot of time, but NOT WHEN THE CLOCK IS RUNNING.

If Indy doesn't call that time-out then the Jets have to get up there and spike the ball. 20-23 seconds left. Then they've got 2 plays to pick up the 5-6 yards to get the field goal. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't. But you don't give them the opportunity not to make a mistake, which is what teams do when they are behind and running out of time. That time-out by Caldwell took all the pressure off the Jets and basically told his defense: "I don't trust you to make two plays."

[C-Gold]

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just had a conversation with a buddy of mine and we came to the conclusion that they should just let Peyton be a player coach use the money they'd spend on a head coach to hire a top notch D-coordinator. But I think you're being a bit quick to underscore Dungy. He had the respect of all his players. Wanting to play and win for your coach is a big time motivator. Hell, Vick's credited him with being one of the biggest influences in his turnaround.

I played college football and nobody really super respected our coach but everybody still gave 100%. In high school our coach was a former NFL player, EVERYBODY HATED him and everybody gave 100%.

I was friends with a girl who was friends with the star players on Penn State and they didn't respect Joe Pa... They saw him for the figure head that he was.

I agree they should let Manning run the show, and hire some top notch DC. Imagine if Manning had Bellicheck or Rex Ryan his whole career instead of Dungy running the same old boring cover 2.

FYI: I don't think Dungy is a bad head coach. I just think he's average, but gets so much unnessesary hype. Some people... not all... but some people put him up there as a top 5 head coach. He's maybe middle of the pack for me.

[ttrace35]

Raheem Morris

[C-Gold]

Yeah 70.0% completion with a 100+ passer rating and 0 ints is such an awful game

**** him for not throwing for 400 yards and 12 tds with "walk-on Blair White", Jacob Tamme, Reggie "shut down by Revis" Wayne and Pierre Garcon as his targets.

This is what people don't get.

If Mike Vick or any other QB had a bad game with walk on white, tammie, reggie wayne, and gar-stone hands they'd have the simple excuse that he had "no talent" to work with.

It's really amazing Indy even got to the playoffs with this roster. The line wasn't very good either. They could NOT run block. The only time they gained yards was on draws and trick type plays. They NEVER blew the guys up in front of them all year.

[biff]

that game cost me over $300 on a really late under and indy SU and that is a lot for me. It pretty much cleaned me out. worst part is that even though i could live bet on it the game pretty much never gave you a chance to get out of it as it was too close.

Anyone else get cleaned out from that game? and the best part is i was winning all damn day and did not even need to bet that game.

[Hall2Collie]

This is what people don't get.

If Mike Vick or any other QB had a bad game with walk on white, tammie, reggie wayne, and gar-stone hands they'd have the simple excuse that he had "no talent" to work with.

It's really amazing Indy even got to the playoffs with this roster. The line wasn't very good either. They could NOT run block. The only time they gained yards was on draws and trick type plays. They NEVER blew the guys up in front of them all year.

Manning had an above average game with below average talent to work with

Not his best or worst post-season game but he can't be blamed for this game at all.

After watching every Indy snap this season (I support them), I was expecting last night to happen. This roster has at least 10/15 players getting meaningful minutes who probably shouldn't even be in the NFL.

18 players on IR will kill any team in the long run

[C-Gold]

Yes, 30 seconds is a lot of time, but NOT WHEN THE CLOCK IS RUNNING.

If Indy doesn't call that time-out then the Jets have to get up there and spike the ball. 20-23 seconds left. Then they've got 2 plays to pick up the 5-6 yards to get the field goal. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't. But you don't give them the opportunity not to make a mistake, which is what teams do when they are behind and running out of time. That time-out by Caldwell took all the pressure off the Jets and basically told his defense: "I don't trust you to make two plays."

One of the worst calls I ever saw was Colts/Titans.

At the end of the game the Titans were going to punt the ball, concede and go into over time.... Fisher sent out the punt team, Indy had the FG block team out there... and Dungy used his LAST timeout... with 13 seconds left. Now that a missed FG couldn't really hurt the Titans anymore... Fisher sent out his kicker to attempt a 63 yard FG... If he missed it would have given manning so little time and no time outs.

Kicker makes the kick and Indy looses... So WTF would have happened if Dungy didn't call the timeout? Titans punt and go into OT. Dungy was bad in game management also, and game planning was poor. Cover 2, cover 2, cover 2...

Other team is guanranteed to run for 100+ yards on the colts
don't have to prep for exotic blitzes
Dungy just keeps it simple, same boring cover 2, and hopes Manning will win the game for him.

He's an average coach, slightly above average at best. Jim Caldwell is not even average, he sucks.

[The Madcap]

I played college football and nobody really super respected our coach but everybody still gave 100%. In high school our coach was a former NFL player, EVERYBODY HATED him and everybody gave 100%.

I was friends with a girl who was friends with the star players on Penn State and they didn't respect Joe Pa... They saw him for the figure head that he was.

I agree they should let Manning run the show, and hire some top notch DC. Imagine if Manning had Bellicheck or Rex Ryan his whole career instead of Dungy running the same old boring cover 2.

FYI: I don't think Dungy is a bad head coach. I just think he's average, but gets so much unnessesary hype. Some people... not all... but some people put him up there as a top 5 head coach. He's maybe middle of the pack for me.

Oh, I agree he's over-hyped. For the same reason McNabb was. I'll always agree with Rush totally on that one.

And yeah, even if you hate your coach the guys still might rally around themselves on game day, but if you've got a coach you really like, then not only do you play hard, but you practice and prepare hard too. You can't tell me that players that don't respect their coaches are coming in as prepared as the players that do.

[C-Gold]

Manning had an above average game with below average talent to work with

Not his best or worst post-season game but he can't be blamed for this game at all.

After watching every Indy snap this season (I support them), I was expecting last night to happen. This roster has at least 10/15 players getting meaningful minutes who probably shouldn't even be in the NFL.

18 players on IR will kill any team in the long run

I watch a lot of INdy, I bought their futures at the start of the year. Don't normally like doing that for SB teams but manning always makes the playoffs... even in shitty years ( like this). A couple years ago the Colts O-Line was awful and they still made the playoffs. He had one of the 5 worst O-Lines in the league and they still made the playoffs.... I thought the defense would be slightly better this year and I think Bethea is a beast.

Why doesn't Polian draft some mauling O-Lineman?
Why don't they invest in some better DT's and LB's to stop the run?

I don't get it? They are horrible at running and stopping the run. I know the NFL changed to pass and stop the pass, but they are so anemic at both and I think with a little investment would go a long way. They don't have to change their team around, just get some beef on the lines.

[C-Gold]

Oh, I agree he's over-hyped. For the same reason McNabb was. I'll always agree with Rush totally on that one.

And yeah, even if you hate your coach the guys still might rally around themselves on game day, but if you've got a coach you really like, then not only do you play hard, but you practice and prepare hard too. You can't tell me that players that don't respect their coaches are coming in as prepared as the players that do.

I agree with Rush's comments too. I don't watch his show or anything like that but I agree he was right. It comes down to a MSM thing. The NFL is very PC. Look at all the pregame shows, most announcer teams etc.

but I disagree you prepare better with a coach you like. Most people would probably agree with you but in my experience I didn't see that and that was even in high school football and college. Guys have money on the line in the NFL. They are VERY aware of their stats. They mostly all do geniunely want to win. We had coordinators we hated and ones we liked. The best coordinator we had was the smartest one... He just knew football. He was extremely analytical, not particularly personable. He was like an accountant... No personality, but so damn smart with football x's and o's. The other guys, some we liked were "cool", but they didn't have 1/4th the knowledge of the other guy.

I think there are just too many cliches in football and I'm not buying that you have to "like" your coach. A lot of people hated Parcells ( but many liked him too) and he was the best.

[Hall2Collie]

I watch a lot of INdy, I bought their futures at the start of the year. Don't normally like doing that for SB teams but manning always makes the playoffs... even in shitty years ( like this). A couple years ago the Colts O-Line was awful and they still made the playoffs. He had one of the 5 worst O-Lines in the league and they still made the playoffs.... I thought the defense would be slightly better this year and I think Bethea is a beast.

Why doesn't Polian draft some mauling O-Lineman?
Why don't they invest in some better DT's and LB's to stop the run?

I don't get it? They are horrible at running and stopping the run. I know the NFL changed to pass and stop the pass, but they are so anemic at both and I think with a little investment would go a long way. They don't have to change their team around, just get some beef on the lines.

He had one of the 5 worst O-Lines in the league and they still made the playoffs

Yeah Polian called out the O-line last year and somehow made it worse. He has basically said that only Saturday will be back next year

I thought the defense would be slightly better this year and I think Bethea is a beast.

The defense probably would have been but injuries killed them. (I agree with Bethea)

And to answer your questions

1.We gave up a late first for Ugoh two years ago and he turned out to be an unmotivated loser. We also tried to pick up three centers (to play guard) a few years ago but they all failed to even crack the roster. Polian's a drafting genius but his weakness has always been the o-line

2.No idea really... the main idea is that if Manning gives us a lead... Freeney and Mathis can close the game out with intense pass rush. It's a broken theory that hopefully they fix soon.

[Hall2Collie]

Also, I'd like to defend Dungy a little.

While he was never a great X's and O's guy... he always had the team disciplined and ready for every game.

He was a pretty good coach until he had to come up against the more elite minds (Cowher and BB) then his weakness started to show

[C-Gold]

I'm not so sure Polian is a drafting Genius. He's been blessed with Peyton Manning and Jim Kelly for his coaching career. Those guys cover up for a lot of mistakes. Yeah yeah he had to pick Manning over Ryan leaf but Manning was still the "consensus"... Leaf was a "sexy" pick.

I think the O-Line was worse this year, but 2 years ago it was easily worse. Two years ago it could have been the worst in the league.

[Hall2Collie]

I'm not so sure Polian is a drafting Genius. He's been blessed with Peyton Manning and Jim Kelly for his coaching career. Those guys cover up for a lot of mistakes. Yeah yeah he had to pick Manning over Ryan leaf but Manning was still the "consensus"... Leaf was a "sexy" pick.

I think the O-Line was worse this year, but 2 years ago it was easily worse. Two years ago it could have been the worst in the league.

He is generally more hit then miss with his picks

Genius might be too strong but he certainly has a nose for talent at any position other then O-line and DT

[The Madcap]

I agree with Rush's comments too. I don't watch his show or anything like that but I agree he was right. It comes down to a MSM thing. The NFL is very PC. Look at all the pregame shows, most announcer teams etc.

but I disagree you prepare better with a coach you like. Most people would probably agree with you but in my experience I didn't see that and that was even in high school football and college. Guys have money on the line in the NFL. They are VERY aware of their stats. They mostly all do geniunely want to win. We had coordinators we hated and ones we liked. The best coordinator we had was the smartest one... He just knew football. He was extremely analytical, not particularly personable. He was like an accountant... No personality, but so damn smart with football x's and o's. The other guys, some we liked were "cool", but they didn't have 1/4th the knowledge of the other guy.

I think there are just too many cliches in football and I'm not buying that you have to "like" your coach. A lot of people hated Parcells ( but many liked him too) and he was the best.

I think you make a good point with the money angle in the NFL, but then look at guys like Vince Young, Jamarcu Russell, Albert Haynesworth, etc. All it takes is one guy to start disrespecting the coach for it to become a cancer that infects a whole locker room.

I had a coordinator like the analytical guy you described. We liked him the best too. At least the offensive guys. We had a good balance because our LB's coach was some crazy mutha-fucka Lattimore type.

I guess the way I see it is that if you play for a coach you really respect, then the game becomes something more, it opens your eyes to see the game in a way you wouldn't have otherwise. Treat it more of a family/loving/supporting network than an individualistic pursuit/business like so many pros seem to.

Look at Team USA basketball. I don't think it's an accident that our pros played like a bunch of lazy selfish ingrates for ten years and then after they bring a great motivator on board like Coach K the players completely change their tune and we get back to dominating.

[Chuck Sims]

Don't forget the wasted challenge Buckwheat used early in the game on the punt that Holmes clearly did not touch.

Going back to the Colts/Jax game. I had a large teaser on the Colts and the Jags were content on running out the clock to force OT. That was until Buckwheat started calling timeouts to allow Jax enough time to kick the winning FG.

[C-Gold]

Isn't it funny how the OC's are always the super smart guys? They always say the offensive guys are the guys with the clean lockers. Precision, analytical, knowing the true game. There are a lot of possibilities.

Defense?
Man
Cover 1
Cover 2
Cover 3
Cover 4
or some variation

Blitzes and stunts? They don't change

You could learn a defense in two weeks. Offense... no way.

I don't think liking your coach "opens the game up" or anything like that. They are like your boss or your dad or something but not really. I think you are marking THAT connection. Sometimes you just have to trust the coach and do what he says. They do have to lay down the law.

I agree that a cancer on your team, a TO, a Vince Young, or a Michael Vick (atlanta) could destroy your team... John Thompson the Georgetown basketball coach now has a radio show and he says a good coach needs to have a great relationship with his star player. If you are a coach you are going to go as far as your QB takes you and vice versa. You need a leader... a Matt Ryan type is ideal... a Peyton Manning is mroe than you can ever ask for. A lazy Jemarcus will get you unemployed.

[frostno98]

Manning choked again and one of the greatest white QB ever just got owned by a Hispanic dude

Who's here has a crystal globe to predict that Folks was going to miss a 51 yard field goal, in perfect weather conditions anyways. The time out didn't cause them to lose that game. They lost because Manning didn't convert a 1st down when it mattered and the defense was too soft.

[Hall2Collie]

Worst thing is that Caldwell is a QB coach

He has said multiple times that he offers ZERO input to Manning.

So what does he coach? Players will get bored of all the half time speeches and love when you aren't actually teaching them anything

[C-Gold]

Manning choked again and one of the greatest white QB ever just got owned by a Hispanic dude

Who's here has a crystal globe to predict that Folks was going to miss a 51 yard field goal, in perfect weather conditions anyways. The time out didn't cause them to lose that game. They lost because Manning didn't convert a 1st down when it mattered and the defense was too soft.

Yeah, Pancho Sanchez had a great game and manning played bad. Maybe he should have thrown that pass to himself instead of blair white and caught it.

Nick Folk got cut from Dallas for a reason.

There is no excuse for Caldwells key blunder when the game was on the line. As a coach you want to INCREASE the chances your team wins, not DECREASE the chances your team is going to win.

There is only 1 reason why Caldwell was hired and it was a silly reason at that.

[The Madcap]

Isn't it funny how the OC's are always the super smart guys? They always say the offensive guys are the guys with the clean lockers. Precision, analytical, knowing the true game. There are a lot of possibilities.

Defense?
Man
Cover 1
Cover 2
Cover 3
Cover 4
or some variation

Blitzes and stunts? They don't change

You could learn a defense in two weeks. Offense... no way.

I don't think liking your coach "opens the game up" or anything like that. They are like your boss or your dad or something but not really. I think you are marking THAT connection. Sometimes you just have to trust the coach and do what he says. They do have to lay down the law.

I agree that a cancer on your team, a TO, a Vince Young, or a Michael Vick (atlanta) could destroy your team... John Thompson the Georgetown basketball coach now has a radio show and he says a good coach needs to have a great relationship with his star player. If you are a coach you are going to go as far as your QB takes you and vice versa. You need a leader... a Matt Ryan type is ideal... a Peyton Manning is mroe than you can ever ask for. A lazy Jemarcus will get you unemployed.

"A lazy Jemarcus will get you unemployed." hahaha. Yeah, that or something else...

Offensive guys are generally smarter because they have to be. Defenders can rely more on reaction/instincts. Plus offensive guys don't go running around into shit at 30 miles an hour play after play. That kills brain cells.

Well maybe it's just something I went through with the coaches. I didn't like any of my coaches until my junior year in high school. He had a way of putting the game in a perspective that allowed you to get more out of yourself than you thought you had.

[Brewers in 7]

Dungy was just as bad as Caldwell, people seem to forget that since he won a Superbowl against Rex Grossman... Mike Shanahan won 2 superbowls, and he's as bad a coach as there is

[C-Gold]

PS. How often is it that you see a "Rooney Rule" head coach from the offensive side of the ball?

The Raiders will probably hire Hue Jackson as their permanent head coach but it's rare. How about if you want more Rooney Rule head coaches start with more OC's first.

One of the teams is going to interview Ron Rivera for their Rooney Rule candidate instead of wheeling Perry Fuel out there like everybody else.

You know what annoys me. Tony Dungy always promoted Ron Meeks to be a head coach. He was horrible and didn't even deserve his job, he deserved to be fired and yet Dungy said he should be a head coach. Dungy and his politcs.

[Domestic]

Pretty horrible. Just fire him and let Peyton be QB/Head Coach and let the DC call all the defense plays.

[The Madcap]

PS. How often is it that you see a "Rooney Rule" head coach from the offensive side of the ball?

The Raiders will probably hire Hue Jackson as their permanent head coach but it's rare. How about if you want more Rooney Rule head coaches start with more OC's first.

One of the teams is going to interview Ron Rivera for their Rooney Rule candidate instead of wheeling Perry Fuel out there like everybody else.

You know what annoys me. Tony Dungy always promoted Ron Meeks to be a head coach. He was horrible and didn't even deserve his job, he deserved to be fired and yet Dungy said he should be a head coach. Dungy and his politcs.

I fukking hate Ron Meeks. My Panthers hired that jackass as our defensive coordinator, which wasn't quite as bad as my Wolfpack hiring Mike Archer the former D.C. at Kentucky, but it still makes me break shit.