Fellow Americans - feeling cheated by the point devaluation?

[pavyracer]

Shari this is a sports gambling oriented site. You take away the sports gambling perks you will see a drop in Pro membership. You think people will sign up in large numbers for American Airlines if you can't use your miles to buy airline tickets but can use them to order pizzas and buy t-shirts?

[shari91]

Shari this is a sports gambling oriented site. You take away the sports gambling perks you will see a drop in Pro membership. You think people will sign up in large numbers for American Airlines if you can't use your miles to buy airline tickets but can use them to order pizzas and buy t-shirts?

You're not taking into the consideration that many were here before the perks; many never bought cash even when they could; and there are still Americans becoming a Pro daily even with no cash currently available.

[Footballtime]

I'd think the same regardless. To you sportsbook cash is valuable - to me it's not. I have enough cash in my books and won't be redepositing any time soon. But I will be buying things for my son and gifts for others - I'd sure as hell love free gift cards to be able to do that. Many loyalty programs I'm involved in don't offer the same perks for members of different countries. All of my card and frequent flyer programs to start with. But I'm still a member because the rewards offered to me even when I'm now living in Australia are valuable.

The point is a few people are seeing this as in SBR wants to take the cash away from Americans and now the program's gone to shit for them. If those people realistically sat back and thought about if it would be a smart business move for SBR to do this for the hell of it, they'd come up with no. Even though many people assume the majority of posters are Americans which is false and Pavy threw out the 75% number about how many Pros bought cash, it's not even close. SBR is doing what is to ensure that one day we don't log on here and find the site down because they didn't bother to find out if there's even the slightest possibility that they were violating a law - even a grey shade of it. Unless someone is completely selfish and also doesn't understand the concept that points still have value whether cash is available or not, then they should be patient and just ride it out until a decision is made either way. I'd rather SBR know for sure and then finally the issue can be put to rest, ideally with cash and freeplays available again to everyone.

Shari, To me sportsbook cash is Valuable???? You sure about that??? I have never ordered a thing off the store, i use most of my points to play poker................ 2nd since you wanted to open yourself up about how much cash you have in sportsbooks............ If i had a young son like yourself, before i had money in sportsbooks, I would make sure he had things he needed/wanted. I wouldnt deposit money in a book, so that i could save up enough points to buy an Ipad, Diaper Bag, or set of SBR Baby formula!

[pavyracer]

You're not taking into the consideration that many were here before the perks; many never bought cash even when they could; and many signed up after cash was no longer an option and continue to sign up every day.

And what is SBR's plan for growth of US Pro membership. Lets say everyone who was here 5 years ago like me will renew. How do you grow from now on? Because without growth you can't sustain success.

[shari91]

Shari, To me sportsbook cash is Valuable???? You sure about that??? I have never ordered a thing off the store, i use most of my points to play poker................ 2nd since you wanted to open yourself up about how much cash you have in sportsbooks............ If i had a young son like yourself, before i had money in sportsbooks, I would make sure he had things he needed/wanted. I wouldnt deposit money in a book, so that i could save up enough points to buy an Ipad, Diaper Bag, or set of SBR Baby formula!

My son's taken care of very well thanks. Nice to see you can have a decent discussion without resorting to nonsense.

[shari91]

And what is SBR's plan for growth of US Pro membership. Lets say everyone who was here 5 years ago like me will renew. How do you grow from now on? Because without growth you can't sustain success.

There's a big world out there besides America, Pavy. And there are many Americans on here who are neither complaining because they value their points differently than you do or not at all and are still continuing to sign up. I trust SBR will be ok.

[saints7011]

must be that time of the month...



dulas

[thezbar]

I'm going to sent x amount of $ to off shore for football season anyway. So I use one of the books that sponsors points. Its not a big deal. This bickering about devaluation or not renewing is silly in my book. Unless you can't afford 200 dollars, then I understand.

[BranchDavidian]

haha not at all. But yeah sure, it'd be great if Americans could get cash back. Unfortunately it's not happening today as has already been repeated several times. The fact that people think their points aren't valuable without sportsbook cash blows my mind.


In what sense? Does American Airlines give me the same amount of points when I fly economy as they do when you fly first class?

I can't order pizza or most of the gift cards. I don't need or want sportsbook cash. Americans only make up 50% of SBR. Should the other 50% of us stage a rebellion because we can't access some of the rewards you can?

Your airline analogy does not fit this scenario. However, first class is much more expensive than economy. Would a Canadian airline customer get more points for first class than an American airline customer? That is a more apt comparison. As Pavy pointed out, we understand the points are still valuable. But not as valuable as they were for half of us. If you can justify that, if you feel it is ok to discriminate, then I am sure that you will lose customers. The worst part is that when this decision to stop the freeplays for Americans was made, SBR stated that their lawyers were looking into the situation, and we would see what would happen. Four months later, no word from the lawyers - and we are not going to hear anything from any lawyers. SBR is not a financial institution regulated under the UEIGA legislation. And even if SBR would have some legal worries, they could easily come up with some plan that would make American's points of equal value if they so desired. The fact that they don't seem to be worried about the loss of value to Americans is troubling to me.

[shari91]

Your airline analogy does not fit this scenario. However, first class is much more expensive than economy. Would a Canadian airline customer get more points for first class than an American airline customer? That is a more apt comparison. As Pavy pointed out, we understand the points are still valuable. But not as valuable as they were for half of us. If you can justify that, if you feel it is ok to discriminate, then I am sure that you will lose customers. The worst part is that when this decision to stop the freeplays for Americans was made, SBR stated that their lawyers were looking into the situation, and we would see what would happen. Four months later, no word from the lawyers - and we are not going to hear anything from any lawyers. SBR is not a financial institution regulated under the UEIGA legislation. And even if SBR would have some legal worries, they could easily come up with some plan that would make American's points of equal value if they so desired. The fact that they don't seem to be worried about the loss of value to Americans is troubling to me.

1. Where are you getting "half of us" from? Please show me the figures on that. 50% of the posting population is based in America. 100% of that 50% did not purchase sportsbook cash. Not even close. You're assuming your idea of what makes points valuable is the same as it is for everyone else. It is not.

2. The removal of sportsbook cash for Americans was announced by Lou on May 28th and took effect May 30th. Not sure where you're getting 4 months from. It hasn't even been 45 days.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/1097385-sbr-store-discontinuing-sportsbook-rewards.html

Considering this is the only gambling forum that offered anything like this to Americans online and therefore there would've been no precedent set for this scenario and add in that domain seizures occurred, a fake processor was set up and major poker sites were shut down, I think the issue is a bit more complex than merely calling up a lawyer and getting them to give a quick response on the legalities here with 100% confidence.

[nosniboR11]

shari you are way off here, sbr will still make it but they will lose a lot of USA posters, even the ones that were here before if something is not done, blind eyes will get you in the unemployment line

[BranchDavidian]

I'd think the same regardless. To you sportsbook cash is valuable - to me it's not. I have enough cash in my books and won't be redepositing any time soon. But I will be buying things for my son and gifts for others - I'd sure as hell love free gift cards to be able to do that. Many loyalty programs I'm involved in don't offer the same perks for members of different countries. All of my card and frequent flyer programs to start with. But I'm still a member because the rewards offered to me even when I'm now living in Australia are valuable.

The point is a few people are seeing this as in SBR wants to take the cash away from Americans and now the program's gone to shit for them. If those people realistically sat back and thought about if it would be a smart business move for SBR to do this for the hell of it, they'd come up with no. Even though many people assume the majority of posters are Americans which is false and Pavy threw out the 75% number about how many Pros bought cash, it's not even close. SBR is doing what is to ensure that one day we don't log on here and find the site down because they didn't bother to find out if there's even the slightest possibility that they were violating a law - even a grey shade of it. Unless someone is completely selfish and also doesn't understand the concept that points still have value whether cash is available or not, then they should be patient and just ride it out until a decision is made either way. I'd rather SBR know for sure and then finally the issue can be put to rest, ideally with cash and freeplays available again to everyone.

Well, Shari. I also have enough cash in several sportsbooks so that I don't need SBR in order to deposit or play. But if I can trade my points in for a store item worth $100 or a sportsbook freeplay worth $200, guess which one I will choose. It is a good thing for you that you have the option to choose a store item OR a sportsbook freeplay. Do you get an equal value for your store items and sportsbook freeplays? Because, if you are trading in points for store items when you could be getting more value at a book, then you are not as smart as I have given you credit for. You can always optimize your points by getting the freeplay and then cashing out some of your sportsbook cash and ending up with more money -- which , i believe, is why we are here!

[Doug]

I think SBR caved in too easily on this issue.

[shari91]

shari you are way off here, sbr will still make it but they will lose a lot of USA posters, even the ones that were here before if something is not done, blind eyes will get you in the unemployment line

Noser, I'm sorry but I disagree. A lot of US Pros didn't even buy cash to begin with. Either they could never save up to buy cash or they chose to buy other things. Some didn't even use their points for anything other than the sportsbook, casino and poker. And a lot of people were here before the points and have continued to sign up within the past 6 weeks with no cash available to them. When it comes time to renew, I realistically can't see many people choosing not to take the 5 seconds to fill out the form if they already have cash in the book they used to initially sign up with. Doesn't make sense.

[shari91]

Well, Shari. I also have enough cash in several sportsbooks so that I don't need SBR in order to deposit or play. But if I can trade my points in for a store item worth $100 or a sportsbook freeplay worth $200, guess which one I will choose. It is a good thing for you that you have the option to choose a store item OR a sportsbook freeplay. Do you get an equal value for your store items and sportsbook freeplays? Because, if you are trading in points for store items when you could be getting more value at a book, then you are not as smart as I have given you credit for. You can always optimize your points by getting the freeplay and then cashing out some of your sportsbook cash and ending up with more money -- which , i believe, is why we are here!

Yes if you want to maximise the $ value of a point everyone is aware that sportsbook cash is the way to go. That doesn't mean that it's considered valuable to every player or that every player cares to maximise the value of a point. Again, not everyone has the discipline or desire to save up the points for sportsbook cash so cash is an unrealistic option for them. And some would rather reward themselves with things they'd never buy on their own ie in my case an iPad. Others would rather spend their points on gift cards because they'd be forking out the cash for them anyway. My point is that while the cash being unavailable to US posters at the moment definitely sucks for some, it has no relevance to many others so making sweeping generalisations isn't factual.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion guys and to those who kept it on point. Hopefully this all gets resolved one way or another very soon.

[sneak-a-peak]

theres no way im readin thru this whole thread but i gotta say its so comical to me just how worked up people get over these points here......

the knowledge about sports betting i have learned here since becoming a member here has seriously been priceless and has been more than i could ask for

these points are really just pennies

nobody i know stops to pickup pennies off the streets

[horja1]

When SBR will bring back sportcash for US members, they'd better do something about those pizzas cause us, europeans, can't order pizza ... or we can, if we want it delivered to US

[The Bet Master]

The fact of the matter is if the sportsbook cash violated US law SBR is already in trouble. Another thing us SBR either blatently lied to us about lawyers looking over the matter or hired very bad lawyers. This is something a lawyer wouldn't need 45 days to review. Bottomline is sports book cash was the most intriguing thing for me to buy, but will i renew my pro membership? Probably but if there was sportsbook cash it'd be definitely.

[captrobey]

When it comes time to renew for me-which should be soon i think, i would have no problem if they are making up for what i lost somewhere else. If i do not get the free plays now then let us have gift cards at a better rate.

[zert]

I have picked up pennies off the street. Also nickels, dimes, and quaters.

[Bill Dozer]

I'm going to sent x amount of $ to off shore for football season anyway. So I use one of the books that sponsors points. Its not a big deal. This bickering about devaluation or not renewing is silly in my book. Unless you can't afford 200 dollars, then I understand.

That was the idea. To be in the top tier for points and perks you just had to drop the info in the form. There was nothing that said, if you do this, you will be guarenteed to get x product at x price. You get what you get from the no-brainer offer. Anyone who complains about getting free x instead of free y is being greedy IMO. Show me one person who didnt get their $200 back more than 2 times over...and that's a $200 they didn't actually lose.

Don't get me wrong...it sucks that there isn't sportsbook cash in the store and we are all venting about it. But to the people using bad math to say SBR owes them something and there is devaluation of x, use your new ipad from the sbrstore to find a job.

[zert]

Maybe we need somebody who isnt in the US to do some transfers for us.

[Wiggums5]

Bill can we at least get more things added to the store like we were told? That would easily solve the problem. I know it's probably not the easiest thing to do, to add new items to the store but all I remember that has been added since sportsbook cash is gone is JJ gold knee pads (will never be purchased) and the Samsung Galaxy (1 or 2 a year max).

[nosniboR11]

That was the idea. To be in the top tier for points and perks you just had to drop the info in the form. There was nothing that said, if you do this, you will be guarenteed to get x product at x price. You get what you get from the no-brainer offer. Anyone who complains about getting free x instead of free y is being greedy IMO. Show me one person who didnt get their $200 back more than 2 times over...and that's a $200 they didn't actually lose. Don't get me wrong...it sucks that there isn't sportsbook cash in the store and we are all venting about it. But to the people using bad math to say SBR owes them something and there is devaluation of x, use your new ipad from the sbrstore to find a job.

ok bill stand tall, and you think its the "free" shit we are worried about, ok, you have your opinion, just remember its the posters that make this place , we leave you lose, keep pushing us away with your attitude towards us

[d2bets]

Not devalued for me at all. Though I easily could have, I never used points for sportsbook cash, never would. I win at my sportsbooks, no need to load more there using points. The best value is pizza anyway. Basically it's 10 cents per point. Then again I've ordered like 25 pizzas, a few gift cards and I'm still sitting on 15k points. Gotta figure out how to use some of these.

[Carseller4]

The funniest/saddest thing about this is that SBR thinks they are a freaking bank.

Name one store item that SBR actually issues a check to its members?

There is not one transaction that requires any assistance from a financial institution.

SBR Lawyers.....my ass. If they do have lawyers they need to be fired for incompetence.

[shari91]

The funniest/saddest thing about this is that SBR thinks they are a freaking bank. Name one store item that SBR actually issues a check to its members? There is not one transaction that requires any assistance from a financial institution. SBR Lawyers.....my ass. If they do have lawyers they need to be fired for incompetence.

I've seen you post variations on the same theme and so I'll ask: Keeping in mind that SBR is a much larger company than just this forum and there are many more employees than those of us you see post, would you be willing to say with 100% certainty that nothing negative will happen to SBR as a result of offering sportsbook cash to American residents? To the point that you're willing to face any financial repercussions that a lawyer would face if they made a recommendation to their client and something negative were to happen as a result? Or would you perform due diligence and ensure you could advise your client with confidence about a legal matter first?

John already posted weeks ago that to him he thinks this should be a non-issue but it's his responsibility to ensure he's doing what's right legally for his company and its employees. I'm not sure why a few people are having difficulty understanding this and think a lawyer would've just quickly given a yes or no answer about a potential issue they never would've encountered before. I can only assume it's because they either can't see past their own selfishness, they don't have experience with corporate law or they don't understand how large SBR actually is and therefore don't realise how serious the repercussions could be.

[Carseller4]

shari, you are just too damn logical for me.

Large companies get things done! I'll leave it at that, and hope this gets resolved soon.

[horja1]

... I've ordered like 25 pizzas, a few gift cards and I'm still sitting on 15k points. Gotta figure out how to use some of these.

... I have a loan that has to be paid ... nothing much, just 1300 points ...

[unamed1]

How many points for a bag of Cheetos (the Flamin' Hot ones, not the regular ones)? You can keep your free plays as long as I can get Cheetos, we're good (or some Funyuns, I REALLY like Funyuns)

[Roadtrip635]

Since lawyers work on billable hours don't expect a quick resolution. The landscape for online gambling in general for US residents is very unstable right now. The recent crackdown on online poker and new attempts at legislation just add to the uncertainty of the online gambling future in the USA, unfortunately technology moves faster than politics and legislation. I can understand why SBR felt it neccesary to remove the free cash/freeplays, they had to minimize their liabilities. The hard part for some US players is they got a taste of something good and had it taken away. Like giving candy to a kid and then telling them they can never have any more candy.

Personally, I like getting perks for something I would do anyway, so the point system is a nice bonus. I realize the points system is relatively new but it's difficult when the US members are taking the brunt of those growing pains. The sportsbook free cash/free plays were the best value in the store (eg.a $50 gift card costs significantly more than a $50 free play/cash). The rollover for poker tourneys, contests and trivia just adds to the inflation rate of the SBR member economy. My greatest concern is where all this is headed, the future for US SBR members. Now that SBR is going to be selling points for cash to non-US residents does this represent another step to becoming a full service sportsbook? If so, where does it leave us? Will we see diminishing perks and service, will we eventually just get left behind altogether? Even though technically the SBR pro status is a free perk, since we keep the money we deposit, SBR makes money because of the money we deposit.

I know there is no crystal ball to predict the future and the only constant in life is change, but will the changes and future of SBR benefit US SBR members?

[capitalist pig]

Personally I could care less about points I give the away to other posters or lose them in the casino . I needed to re-deposit this week at Bet Jam, so Im going to be a pro for that reason only. There is no way Id open a new account anywhere just to recieve points.

But as far as SBR taking care of Americans there are many ways they could kick us cash or gifts if they really wanted to.It all comes down to the bottom line $, and this year there will be less Americans depositing at offshore books than in previous years, JMO.

later

[Bill Dozer]

Bill can we at least get more things added to the store like we were told? That would easily solve the problem. I know it's probably not the easiest thing to do, to add new items to the store but all I remember that has been added since sportsbook cash is gone is JJ gold knee pads (will never be purchased) and the Samsung Galaxy (1 or 2 a year max).

Hey Wiggums,

Yea, when Sam gets back from the WSOP, we'll look at how we can ramp up the store.

ok bill stand tall, and you think its the "free" shit we are worried about, ok, you have your opinion, just remember its the posters that make this place , we leave you lose, keep pushing us away with your attitude towards us

Youre right. We do need members and appreciate all of them but we aren't buying them. We have them because we offer a good suite of products and resources and place to hang out with other players. We get there in large part through their feedback. But, the crybabies and the guys who threaten to go away or make demands... we wouldn't miss em and we'd be better off without em. Maybe foodstamps.com has a forum they can turn to.

[pavyracer]

SBR reminds me of parent who always spoils the younger kids (non-US Pros) and neglects the first born kid. US Pros is what made this site what it is now and at this point they feel very disrespected.

[horja1]

I doubt SBR is interested in members who value the points so much that they threaten to leave the forum