Hillary is done

[Deuce]

Deuce, I was with you until this statement. The ones who voted against refineries was California. They said let Texas do all that and let the californians reap the rewards. The goverment said, "sorry, No Way". Texas put alot of the refineries in their state, why do you think their cost of gallon per gas is 2.90 and California's is 4.30? California is the one who said, "WE will NOT put a refinrey in our state, BUT WE WANT the same low price that Texas pays for gas." **** that. California can go **** themselves.

There is a refinery 40 miles from my place. I pay $3.20 a gallon. That means nothing.

[Panic]

There is a refinery 40 miles from my place. I pay $3.20 a gallon. That means nothing.

How many refineries are in California and how many in Texas? Look it up.

[Deuce]

How many refineries are in California and how many in Texas? Look it up.

Means nothing to me. I don't live in Cali. I live in the Midwest.

[Panic]

Means nothing to me. I don't live in Cali. I live in the Midwest.

I understand, but I live in Texas. We have carried our weight.

[Willie Bee]

There is a refinery 40 miles from my place. I pay $3.20 a gallon. That means nothing.

Dear Perfect in the Midwest,

Exactly what is that refinery producing? What are the additives where you live and how do they differ from say a rural spot in Texas? How many other refineries are in the area? How does the crude get to your local refinery? Who is operating the refinery? Who or what are that refineries biggest customers? Exactly where is this refinery located?

Signed,
One Asshole Down South

[BigBollocks]

Deuce with all due respect I really think you're showing why people dislike people who blindly vote neocon like you (and this coming from someone with a Republican politician background who voted Bush).

You don't seem to have much education, reason, or courage. You're the first to tell others to go fight and post a few smiling military faces, but are surely not in the military and have any friends/family fighting (it's hell). You hear of one person dying in Sarajevo, and your response is to have thousands more die in response (if America got attacked every time a foreigner died here we'd have a lot more wars). You know absolutely nothing about foreign affairs, oil, and economics, and yet are the first to run your mouth. This is why the far more intelligent lean one way, and the far less intelligent lean the other.

You seem like a nice enough guy, but you definitely seem like a typical easy to brain wash neocon kid as well. My suggestion would be to talk to some Army or Marine frontline soldiers who have played in the sandbox recently, get far more educated on oil/economics/foreign policy (this will take opening your mind to intelligent discussion that may or may not go over your head), and then see if you're still so tough and easily brainwashed to be a mouthpiece with no information.

Cheers...

[Willie Bee]

Next time someone thinks us assholes down south aren't doing our part to keep this nation supplied, show 'em these photos and ask them if they're real gung-ho about having a refinery in their backyard. My uncle sent them to me from earlier this week not far from his ranch. In case anyone is wondering why you might have seen a spike at the pump the past few days, it's the refinery in Big Spring that shot Tuesday's crude prices for March delivery up about $4.50.

[Glenn Danzig]

Next time someone thinks us assholes down south aren't doing our part to keep this nation supplied, show 'em these photos and ask them if they're real gung-ho about having a refinery in their backyard. My uncle sent them to me from earlier this week not far from his ranch. In case anyone is wondering why you might have seen a spike at the pump the past few days, it's the refinery in Big Spring that shot Tuesday's crude prices for March delivery up about $4.50.

Thanks Willie Bee for sharing the pictures. This reinforces my original arguement on why the oil companies haven't built any new refineries since 1970. This is what happens on 40 year old facilities. No need to wait for next hurricane or terrorist attack. Just watch them burst in flames till there is noone left standing, then maybe our legislators will think about building new ones. The whole universe is laughing at our expense. I have bought 3 new bicycles for the next gas shortage to occur so I can move around freely.

[tacomax]

Can you tell me what exactly has Bush done to raise the price of oil?

Oil is priced in dollars. The dollar is collapsing on world markets. The dollars paid for the oil are worth less (some may say worthless) and so the price of oil is increased by the suppliers in order to compensate for the falling value of the dollar. If the US Government isn't ultimately responsible for the value of the US currency, then who is? This is aside from the tensions in the Middle East due to US foreign policy which has also resulted in an upward pressure on price.

[Willie Bee]

Thanks Willie Bee for sharing the pictures. This reinforces my original arguement on why the oil companies haven't built any new refineries since 1970.

Actually Glenn, it doesn' reinforce a thing in your argument which implied the reason the oil companies are refining overseas more now was simply to drive the price up. I was the one that mentioned in a follow-up post that our refineries are dated, and in many cases it can cost more -- especially in this country -- to update an existing facility than it does to build a new one somewhere else.

Good luck with the bicycles.

[Glenn Danzig]

Actually Glenn, it doesn' reinforce a thing in your argument which implied the reason the oil companies are refining overseas more now was simply to drive the price up. I was the one that mentioned in a follow-up post that our refineries are dated, and in many cases it can cost more -- especially in this country -- to update an existing facility than it does to build a new one somewhere else.

Good luck with the bicycles.

Building a new facility does not mean building it somewhere else. It's like when they build a new stadium. They build the new one on the parking lot of the old one and when they demolish the old one they use it as parking lot for the new one. They oil companies are not investing any of their profits on new infrastructure in the US which is a shame because we consume 25% of world's oil and we are the ones responsible for their wealth. We don't built mass transport systems because the oil companies don't want us to do so. They want us to use our big SUV's so we can burn more oil and see their profits skyrocket.

[Willie Bee]

Building a new facility does not mean building it somewhere else.

It does when faced with the increased lobbying from environmental groups and the incredible price of American labor.

It's like when they build a new stadium.

Building a refinery is nothing like a new football or baseball stadium. First off, a popular vote to finance the construction with bonds and taxpayer money, at least last time I heard, had NEVER been done in advance of building a refinery. And though I've seen a few semi-swanky offices at a few refineries, I've never seen an entire level of suites for corporate partners to come snd schmooze clients while watching waste gas being flared off.

They want us to use our big SUV's so we can burn more oil and see their profits skyrocket.

If wanting your customers to buy more and more of your product is a crime, then we're going to have some awfully full prisons around this country.

[tacomax]

They want us to use our big SUV's so we can burn more oil and see their profits skyrocket.

So - the refineries are so shot and liable to fall to pieces at any moment. The oil companies would prefer to see them blow up and drive the price of oil up - interesting. So the price goes up and they can make loads more money selling their oil.

Hang on a minute - all this oil that they're selling at even higher prices. Where are they going to refine it?

You had me on the ropes there for a minute but simple business logic won in the end.

[Glenn Danzig]

The price of gas is not directly related to the price of oil. Having inadequate capacity to refine crude in our backyard and being subjected to antiquated facilities and in the mercy of hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes and so on and being 5,000 miles apart for industialized countries that can supply us gas in the time of need makes the price of gas shoot up instanly every time there is an emergency and the american public is paying dearly with their lunch money whereas the oil companies are counting their profits.

[slacker00]

Oil is priced in dollars. The dollar is collapsing on world markets. The dollars paid for the oil are worth less (some may say worthless) and so the price of oil is increased by the suppliers in order to compensate for the falling value of the dollar. If the US Government isn't ultimately responsible for the value of the US currency, then who is? This is aside from the tensions in the Middle East due to US foreign policy which has also resulted in an upward pressure on price.

Good post, taco.

When we are quibbling about the price of oil, we really should be talking about the falling U.S. Dollar. As an American, the falling Dollar is embarrassing and frightening. IMO, there's one administration to blame. Here's a chart that shows the falling dollar over the past 5 years, as well as the correlated rise in oil prices.

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22532642

[ritehook]

It was a sharp post by tacomax. Summed it all up. And this ethonol hoax is only driving up food prices, since corn that once fed livestock is now going to facilities for processing as energy.

Ethonol is a scam, the most energy-inefficient fuel around. But we'll have it forced on us because Iowa is an early primiry state, and promises must be made to rapacious farmers.

[Willie Bee]

The price of gas is not directly related to the price of oil. Having inadequate capacity to refine crude in our backyard and being subjected to antiquated facilities and in the mercy of hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes and so on and being 5,000 miles apart for industialized countries that can supply us gas in the time of need makes the price of gas shoot up instanly every time there is an emergency and the american public is paying dearly with their lunch money whereas the oil companies are counting their profits.

If you mean that crude oil futures aren't the only factor in the price of gas at the pump, then you have a point. But crude oil futures do affect gas pump prices in a big way, make no mistake about that.

Once again, if you have the magic wand to get new refineries built here in the US at a cost that is competitive with the construction of a refinery in Venezuela, Saudi, Singapore, et al, please wave it

[old threads]

Building a refinery is nothing like a new football or baseball stadium. First off, a popular vote to finance the construction with bonds and taxpayer money, at least last time I heard, had NEVER been done in advance of building a refinery. And though I've seen a few semi-swanky offices at a few refineries, I've never seen an entire level of suites for corporate partners to come snd schmooze clients while watching waste gas being flared off.

LOL I will have to remember that part about private suites to watch flare offs. You sound like you have experience in oil business Willie Bee is that true???

[Deuce]

Deuce with all due respect I really think you're showing why people dislike people who blindly vote neocon like you (and this coming from someone with a Republican politician background who voted Bush).

You don't seem to have much education, reason, or courage. You're the first to tell others to go fight and post a few smiling military faces, but are surely not in the military and have any friends/family fighting (it's hell). You hear of one person dying in Sarajevo, and your response is to have thousands more die in response (if America got attacked every time a foreigner died here we'd have a lot more wars). You know absolutely nothing about foreign affairs, oil, and economics, and yet are the first to run your mouth. This is why the far more intelligent lean one way, and the far less intelligent lean the other.

You seem like a nice enough guy, but you definitely seem like a typical easy to brain wash neocon kid as well. My suggestion would be to talk to some Army or Marine frontline soldiers who have played in the sandbox recently, get far more educated on oil/economics/foreign policy (this will take opening your mind to intelligent discussion that may or may not go over your head), and then see if you're still so tough and easily brainwashed to be a mouthpiece with no information.

Cheers...

I know a few people that have been in Iraq. Two of my buddies have been in Afghanistan as well as Iraq currently, one is on his 2nd tour the other did 3 and is done. It's not pretty there. I never said it was perfect but stuff is starting to fall into place slowly.

[Willie Bee]

LOL I will have to remember that part about private suites to watch flare offs. You sound like you have experience in oil business Willie Bee is that true???

Spent several years on the upstream service (wireline) end of the business, then worked for wireline engineering and manufacturing outfits after that. You?

[Deuce]

Dear Perfect in the Midwest,

Exactly what is that refinery producing? What are the additives where you live and how do they differ from say a rural spot in Texas? How many other refineries are in the area? How does the crude get to your local refinery? Who is operating the refinery? Who or what are that refineries biggest customers? Exactly where is this refinery located?

Signed,
One Asshole Down South

Marathon Oil Company
100,000 bpd
Detroit, Michigan
Crude travels through the Detroit River via Lake Erie.
1 Refinery in Michigan

Additives...

Sometimes the choices at the pump can be confusing, especially when terms change from station to station. If you want to understand the important differences between these gasoline choices, read on.

Octane and Grades of Fuel
Octane is not a measurement of power. Octane ratings are a measurement of the fuel's ability to resist engine knocking or pinging. The knock results from uneven burning of the compressed fuel-air mixture. Michigan law requires that each grade of gasoline be consistent in octane. There are standardized grade names so consumers can readily identify the grade and the octane of the gasoline. Regular is 87 octane; Midgrade and Premium grades are required to have the octane rating as part of the name (i.e. Premium 93). Stations are required to post the grade names on the pumps in a location readily visible to the consumer. Check your owner's manual to determine which octane is recommended for your car. You will not need a higher-octane gasoline if your car engine runs without making a pinging or knocking sound. Using gasoline with too low an octane rating can result in engine damage. Octane requirements may increase with the age of a vehicle. Vehicles pulling heavy loads may also require a higher octane to avoid engine knock.

Ethanol Fuels
Ethanol has been used as an octane enhancer in Michigan gasoline for many years. Adding ethanol to the gasoline increases the octane almost 3 Anti Knock Index points. Not all gasoline contains ethanol. If ethanol is in the gasoline, it is limited to no more then 10 percent of the total volume for conventional fuels.

MTBE
Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE) is a chemical compound that is used as a fuel additive in gasoline. MTBE is a gasoline additive that was also used in limited quantities in Michigan as an octane enhancer. Because of ground water concerns, MTBE is banned from use in Michigan gasoline with almost none being detected in Michigan gasoline today.

Fuel Additive Packages
All gasoline sold in Michigan is required to meet a minimum fuel performance standard established by the state.

All gasoline sold in the United States is required by the EPA to have a minimum level of fuel additive to prevent fuel injector clogging.

The major differences in gasoline result from the fuel additive packages that go beyond the minimums established and the degree of quality control measures that some marketers have put in place to ensure a consistent high quality product.

Some of these additive packages are designed to not only keep the engine clean but also clean up a dirty engine/fuel injectors/ and prolong the life of the engine, etc. Since these additives are very expensive to add to the gasoline, many of the major oil companies do their own testing of the gasoline at retail to make sure it is their additive package that is being used and that the fuel has not been altered or modified by an unscrupulous dealer trying to increase profits.

Because Michigan has a Motor Fuels Quality program, every gasoline sold in this state should meet the minimum standards and perform satisfactorily in the average consumer's vehicle provided they have purchased the recommended octane. The added benefits that some marketers offer is a matter of consumer preference based upon their vehicle needs and driving experiences. If a particular vehicle performs best on one type of gasoline, you may wish to stick to that type for best engine performance and longevity.

Should you have questions or concerns regarding the quantity or quality of gasoline you have received, please contact the Michigan Department of Agriculture, Consumer Complaint Toll Free Hotline at 1-800-MDA-FUEL.

Here is Marathons market...

[TexansFan]

Down here in Texas City and Pasadena there are more refineries than anywhere in the U.S. I would imagine. I haven't looked this up so I may be wrong but there are quite a few.

[old threads]

Spent several years on the upstream service (wireline) end of the business, then worked for wireline engineering and manufacturing outfits after that. You?

Geologist and land man working independent now and most of the time on new gas wells in Ft Worth area. I am going to try and punch some new holes at my property out west near Pecos when I get some more money and time off.

[tacomax]

The price of gas is not directly related to the price of oil.

Unbelievable. Moon is made of cheese as well, right?

[Glenn Danzig]

Oil is priced in dollars.

Same as cheese or milk at any US based grocery store.

[Willie Bee]

You dabble much in cheese and milk commodities, Glenn?

[Glenn Danzig]

You dabble much in cheese and milk commodities, Glenn?

I shop my groceries at amazon.com and have them delivered at my front door. They always send a female with big knockers and cutoff shorts to deliver them because I'm a good customer.

[tacomax]

Same as cheese or milk at any US based grocery store.

I'm thinking you're not up to speed on the pretty basic concept of the purchasing power of the dollar outside America. Or simple maths come to that - you keep enjoying your cheese and milk. And while you do, think about how expensive it is for an American to visit the UK these days (and a clue - it's got nothing to do with the price of bacon at Target).

[SPECULATOR 13]

Deuce with all due respect I really think you're showing why people dislike people who blindly vote neocon like you (and this coming from someone with a Republican politician background who voted Bush).

You don't seem to have much education, reason, or courage. You're the first to tell others to go fight and post a few smiling military faces, but are surely not in the military and have any friends/family fighting (it's hell). You hear of one person dying in Sarajevo, and your response is to have thousands more die in response (if America got attacked every time a foreigner died here we'd have a lot more wars). You know absolutely nothing about foreign affairs, oil, and economics, and yet are the first to run your mouth. This is why the far more intelligent lean one way, and the far less intelligent lean the other.

You seem like a nice enough guy, but you definitely seem like a typical easy to brain wash neocon kid as well. My suggestion would be to talk to some Army or Marine frontline soldiers who have played in the sandbox recently, get far more educated on oil/economics/foreign policy (this will take opening your mind to intelligent discussion that may or may not go over your head), and then see if you're still so tough and easily brainwashed to be a mouthpiece with no information.

Cheers...

BB,
Old chum this is so well said you covered it all in concise,intelligent,logical,factual and irrefutable maner,I tip my hat to you my friend!

[Glenn Danzig]

I'm thinking you're not up to speed on the pretty basic concept of the purchasing power of the dollar outside America. Or simple maths come to that - you keep enjoying your cheese and milk. And while you do, think about how expensive it is for an American to visit the UK these days (and a clue - it's got nothing to do with the price of bacon at Target).

I know that the dollar is down 30% compared to Euro since 2002. However, the price of oil has jumped from $20 to $100 a barrel. So if you want to compare apples with apples you can argue that the price of oil went from $20 to $75 a barrel. The other $55 per barrel increase is a result of many factors which can not be simplified and analyzed in a short paragraph.

[purecarnagge]

who cares about oil, we should have hydrogen cars to be honest. It would cost us what we cost now once developement and distribution was setup nationwide like we have with oil. The united states either needs to do 1 of two things. 1. provide a public transit system that rivals europe, or 2. provide a new way to be transportation independant without having to rely on oil for a means of fuel.

[guitarjosh]

who cares about oil, we should have hydrogen cars to be honest. It would cost us what we cost now once developement and distribution was setup nationwide like we have with oil. The united states either needs to do 1 of two things. 1. provide a public transit system that rivals europe, or 2. provide a new way to be transportation independant without having to rely on oil for a means of fuel.

A lot of companies are working on hydrogen technology right now, but it won't be ready for another 10-15 years.