BET365 and Betholdem PRIMA POKER ROOMS stole my money

**Sam Odom** · 12-30-05, 12:19 AM

I can testify to the fact that Bet365 C/S staff are miffed w/their poker room affiliate. The Poker side is giving them a bad rep.

**bigboydan** · 12-30-05, 12:21 AM

have you contacted Bill as of yet about this matter ?

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 01:12 AM

Try the folks we sold Pokersitereview.com to. I will get the email. They are poker experts. We got out of that business because we cant solve these kind of complaints.

**pags11** · 12-30-05, 06:31 AM

another story confirming my belief not to even have the casino option active with any of my sportsbooks...

**jentude** · 12-30-05, 06:44 AM

Good luck on this guy! Hope they pay you soon! Hate places like this, and I really hate the prima sites.

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 12-30-05, 12:28 PM

Hi edc0218,

Please send me your account details and what transpired that resulted in this dispute.

Send your email to Disputes @ PokerRoomReview .com and we will be happy to get to the bottom of things for you.

We are here to serve the online poker community, if you or someone you know is having trouble with an online poker room, send us an email for a quick and fair resolution.

Warm regards,
Rich

Disputes @ PokerRoomReview .com

**isetcap** · 12-30-05, 12:46 PM

guarantee you this guy is involved in some form of collusion.

come on, edc. you know you are cheating. prima has the most sophisticated anti-collusion software in the industry so if you're a cheater like edc i would suggest staying away from any of the rooms involved in that network.

learn how to play the game straight up, edc.

**DamianDunlap** · 12-30-05, 02:24 PM

i have direct contact with the manager at betholdem, can u explain to me what happen and i will see what can be done.

**pags11** · 12-31-05, 01:57 AM

yeah, I'd like to hear more on this as well...

**jentude** · 12-31-05, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by isetcap

guarantee you this guy is involved in some form of collusion.

come on, edc. you know you are cheating. prima has the most sophisticated anti-collusion software in the industry so if you're a cheater like edc i would suggest staying away from any of the rooms involved in that network.

learn how to play the game straight up, edc.

I think that is a bs thing to say! A lot of these so called measures they take to stop collusion don't take into acct, that there are some really stupid players out there who will go all in for 500 dollars with 3rd pr! It happens all the time. Esp on the small sites where there arent many players. Just like what happened with that pistol pete guy. I play ata lot of small sites just because you can get to know the real fish real easy. I think these places should have the decency to prove thier case. If i remember correctly in Pistols case they said " we will have all the evidence in a week" It's been 5 months, and nothing from them? Why ? Thats why it's bs!

**TOW** · 12-31-05, 09:08 PM

Quick update.

I'm working on this dispute (that SBR did not touch - the book involved is not a member of TOW Rookie Project

).

Jessica at WWTS was under the impression it had been solved a couple of months ago.

As the player correctly reported microgaming has been unable, or unwilling, to provide evidence of the alleged chip dumping.

What they fear is a charge back, which I have not yet understood if it took place or its just something they fear might happen.

Bottomline 3 months without addressing the issue in a final way is everything but acceptable. Had it been a Rookie Book we would have read about this on your wire long ago (along with s steep downgrade).

**DamianDunlap** · 01-01-06, 12:22 AM

microgaming is a top notch company. They not lacking in any funds. Nobody going to stop playing there cause u downgraded them.

**edc0218** · 01-10-06, 05:10 PM

It has been over 3 months since bet 365 has been holding my account for over $5,ooo dollars. The reason why they are holding it because I played poker at their poker site prima poker which I was really playing at betwtts . The prima poker accused me of chip dumping. After 3 months of long review . The prima poker and betwtts has released my account as of the 3rd of Jan. 2006. The reason why bet 365 has froze my account because prima poker had requested to. Since there was not enough evidence and proof . Bet 365 was really not involved in this dispute it was just that they have the same poker site which is Prima Poker that my account at bet 365 got dragged with the problem. Since betwtts which poker site is handled by Prima Poker released my account I would like my account at bet 365 to be released as well.
Bet 365 has a very bad customer service. I had been trying to write their supervisor Chris Griffith and Paul Chateley and the have been avoiding my call for over 3 months now . But I mentioned that If my account is not settled as soon as possible that I will file a complaint with the Internet fraud department. So, bet365 finally respond that I should file the arbitration form from Ibas. . I filed an arbitration form at Ibas they responded that they have no connection with bet365. Bet365 kept giving me the run around. How do I deal with bet365? Any Idea?

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 01-10-06, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by PokerRoomReview.com

Hi edc0218,

Please send me your account details and what transpired that resulted in this dispute.

Send your email to Disputes @ PokerRoomReview .com and we will be happy to get to the bottom of things for you.

We are here to serve the online poker community, if you or someone you know is having trouble with an online poker room, send us an email for a quick and fair resolution.

Warm regards,
Rich

Dispuites @ PokerRoomReview .com

Email me at Disputes@PokerRoomReview.com.

**marc** · 01-10-06, 09:18 PM

Pokerroomreview,

Good luck helping this player. Seems like when it comes to poker rooms, even reputable books like Betwwts, bet365, and willhill have no qualms about outright stealing form thier players. They all have this ridiculous clause that says "if we think you cheated, we can seize all of your money."

I think partypoker is one of the few poker rooms I have not heard a complaint about.

**slacker00** · 01-11-06, 07:35 AM

Chip dumping is a VERY SERIOUS problem in online poker. I see a case like this at least once a week on various poker message boards ever since I started playing online 3 years ago. Hell, I've even seen it done. Usually it sounds like the guy was indeed chip dumping, but trying to justify it. "I owed my buddy money and couldn't get to the bank.", "My buddy needed some extra chips.", or whatever other lame excuse. Sometimes the chip dumping involves stolen credit cards or hacked accounts. Other times it is bonus abuse. Any way you slice it, it's stealing. It amazes me that the thief has the guts to get on these forums and piss and moan about getting caught.

It's impossible for anyone here to draw any type of conclusion without hand histories and hard evidence. All Prima hand histories are stored on your hard drive, so if indeed you are in the right, you've got all the evidence you need to prove your case. Good luck.

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 01-11-06, 01:44 PM

We all agree that fraud as a whole is a huge problem for the gaming business at large, there needs to be a more defined reason for withholding a player’s funds, chip dumping is a very broad term.

If a player is using a stolen credit card, then that with the players logs should be enough to prove that player A was dumping to player B and player B has the funds confiscated from his account and his account should be closed, now what if they ‘suspect’ credit card fraud but cant yet prove it? Well they shouldn’t hold the players funds for 6 months, they need to collect all the documents needed to prevent the player from charging back and move on.

If the player used neteller that changes everything as neteller doesn’t pass on the chargeback’s to the poker room, so if the player is dumping for a bonus only, the bonus should be confiscated and that’s the end of that.

With all this in mind, yes chip dumping is a serious problem but not one that can’t be handled in a respectable fashion, if a poker room has a good case against a suspected scammer, they should have no problem sharing this with an independent party and put the matter to rest.

I have yet to hear from this player, I have posted my email twice, I will withhold from passing judgment until I know the facts.

Warm regards

**marc** · 01-11-06, 04:06 PM

It's one thing if the chip dumping involves some other fraudelent activity. SUch as chargebacks or bonus abuse. But lets say, that it really is just a case of one player wanting to transfer money to another player. No creidt cards, or bonuses or eft desosits involved. Then the only reason why the book should care is possibly because they may have incurred some depsoit fee from neteller, and so by using them as a money transfer service, they are lsoing a little. But when poker rooms use that form of chip dumping as an excuse to take all the funds away from boht players, than its clear they poker room is just outright stealing. I remember the times when the clerks would claim that all the confiscated funds go back to the players who were cheated. But when you have 2 guys are are dumping chips, but not colluding, than there are no victims. So who is keeping the money. The thieving poker rooms.

Then you have place like Will Hill who have the attitude of, as long as we can convice ourselves that the player cheated, we will take all of his money away. From my limited experience there are very few honest poker room managers out there.

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 01-11-06, 06:29 PM

The most important thing here is the ‘term’ “chip dumping.” On its own it doesn’t say a thing about what transpired. The response from a poker room needs to be more defined. For example, you dumped your chips to player B to avoid the bonus rollover required, hence we are taking such and such actions etc, but to simply tell someone you were dumping chips with no further explanation is simply unacceptable.

If, like you said, one person was simply moving chips across the table to a friend without any other players in the hand, and there is no credit card fraud or bonus abuse, and additionally, if the poker room has no rules stated on its website against such actions, then there is no reason to take any actions against the player. If the site has in their terms and conditions a clause that doesn’t allow such ‘transfers’ amongst players, confiscating their entire balance is also unacceptable.

This is a very scary chapter in the world of online poker, which has grown in popularity like no other sector of the gaming business ever has, and it has helped the image of online gaming within mainstream America, but if poker rooms do what they want whenever they want in the name of ‘chip dumping’, then that image that has been so carefully shaped will quickly fall apart.

The biggest threat is this: you have various gaming operators or entrepreneurs who want in on the poker boom, but have no knowledge on how to market or run a poker room, thinking all they have to do to launch it is to spend a fortune on advertising. Now if the industry standard is $250 average a cost per player, and the new site is averaging $700 due to mismanagement, lack of marketing experience, etc., here is where people get creative and start confiscating funds under very ‘broad terms’ in the hopes that the player will walk away and never look back.

If you or someone you know has been involved in such a situation, do not keep it to yourself. It is your responsibility to let other players know so that they don’t experience the same treatment, and, in doing so, you will be helping to put any and all scam poker rooms out of business.

You can send your comments or complaints to Disputes@PokerRoomReview.com, share your experiences with other players and let’s keep the green felt fair and just.

Warm regards,

Poker Room Review Team

**pags11** · 01-12-06, 04:57 AM

being that I don't play poker (online or otherwise), I'm reading that chip dumping is intentially losing to your buddy?...also, why did the TOW guy get banned?...

**Illusion** · 01-12-06, 04:59 AM

His banning stems from the RichCoastSports fiasco.

**slacker00** · 01-12-06, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by pags11

being that I don't play poker (online or otherwise), I'm reading that chip dumping is intentially losing to your buddy?...also, why did the TOW guy get banned?...

That's right, pags. Chip dumping is generally where one buddy goes all-in against another buddy when they know the right buddy will win the hand. Although, it often extends over many hands to alleviate suspicion, I imagine.

Chip dumping is a dirty word in online poker. Generally, if you are chip dumping, you are up to no good. Poker rooms are extremely sensitive to chip dumping because it is such a problem often involving fraud, money laundering, theft, who knows what else. Experienced players know to NOT do it under any circumstances. Even if your buddy shows up online and wants the 100 bucks you owe him. Don't dump 100 bucks in poker chips. They'll lock your account and you'll have a lot of explaining to do, if you get caught. DON'T CHIP DUMP.

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 01-16-06, 04:06 PM

My problem lies with innocent players who are simply playing poker and get labeled for ‘chip dumping’ when they have no idea what that even means. A good number of poker rooms allow player to player transfers, many don’t, my advice is never dump chips to another player for any reason; either transfer via the poker room support if they allow such transfers or use neteller or some other means of getting money to your buddy. You have to agree that in general when a poker room has someone chip dumping it is usually related to fraud in one form or another, this is not the issue; the issue at hand is poker rooms accusing innocent players of chip dumping.

**slacker00** · 01-17-06, 12:35 AM

PokerRoomReview.Com,

If you've got good evidence that Prima or any other particular cardroom is making a regular practice of hijacking accounts of new players with trumped up charged, I hope you're doing something significant about it. These are very serious accusations.

I'd love to read transcripts of customer support interaction with disgruntled clients, getting hand history numbers, then posting the actual hands. I'll happily do "jury duty" and give my opinion.

**moses millsap** · 01-17-06, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by PokerRoomReview.com

my advice is never dump chips to another player for any reason; either transfer via the poker room support if they allow such transfers or use neteller or some other means of getting money to your buddy.

I dump money to my friends at PartyPoker all the time by setting up a private table and giving them what they gave me on another site or what they gave me in person. I've never been questioned by the bot controlled support there. I'll go even further and say if I sat in a ring game with people I've dumped with at Party, they wouldn't be able to do anything to me, because according to their collusion policies, they say a) we live in diff. areas and b) the % of hands I've played with this certain player does not reach a suspicious level. And I don't collude at all and I wouldn't have any worries if I decided to.

Online support from the poker rooms for a most part are a f'n joke. You think they really give a rat's a$$ if people are cheating a sucker. The BOTTOM LINE is that they are reaping millions from the rake. Unless you blatantly and accidently type in after a flop of KJT "HEY, I GOT AQ HERE, I"LL CHECK RAISE YOU AND WE'LL GET THESE MORONS IN BETWEEN TO COMMIT AN EXTRA BET".

I played a 30-60 stud8 hand at pokerstars where the two in question (I ignorantly sent in a collusion complaint) tried to sandwich me when I had a certain lock high (I had no possible low showing) and both of those morons had certain lows on their cards. The pot escalated to an absurd amount and one of them folded on 7th with FOUR low cards showing in a massive pot. Who folds a low after pushing the action with a low for close to an approx. 30 to 1 shot on the river? Nobody playing 30-60 would do that, even if they had a 8-7 or 8-6, they are calling that NO MATTER WHAT. The morons at Stars actually told me the guy had a low, but that he correctly laid it down, b/c he realized his low wasn't the best low, give me a f'n break. The actuality was the guy who had the better low made his dead high (a straight on the river while I had already had a FH).

Why do you think Stars allows the higher limit players to continually change their screen names and avatars while the low limit players are limited to their 1-2 standard changes or whatever it is. Because the high limit players play shorthanded and generate a ton of rake for those bastards.

**slacker00** · 01-17-06, 01:10 AM

OWNED,

I'd quit chip dumping. It's like doing 90 on the interstate. You can get away with it, but one of these days the police are going to get you.

**moses millsap** · 01-17-06, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by slacker00

OWNED,

I'd quit chip dumping. It's like doing 90 on the interstate. You can get away with it, but one of these days the police are going to get you.

What are they going to do? I can just claim ingornace to the player transfer option. And I never play at the same tables with my friends, so there is no point. The money is legit, it's not like I'm funnelling illegal funds to a friend.

If they call me out on it, I'll say, yeah I do it, WTF are they going to do? The answer is NOTHING, b/c there is nothing wrong with it unless you are doing it with people you are constantly playing with at the same tables.

BTW, I use the transfer feature at Stars all the time, but for some reason at Party we dump, I can't remember the reason, but I think they limit the amount you can transfer, perhaps?

**slacker00** · 01-17-06, 04:09 AM

Well, I'd be plenty pissed if I logged in one day to find my account locked. That's all I'm saying.

In response to the OP in this thread, sounds like he's not the only one having problems with bet365. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1

The above thread is long, but basically a guy bought into a satellite tourney in which he won into a bigger tourney that never happened. The CS response was "Too bad, read the T&C. Here's a ticket to a smaller tourney worth 1/6th as much". Basically the guy got robbed for around $2500.

**PokerRoomReview.com** · 01-17-06, 07:44 PM

Gentleman,

Dumping chips to a friend is not wise by any means. You should be able to move funds around while avoiding chip dumping. If you get caught by a site that has a rule against it, you could find your self in an uncomfortable situation.

As far as poker rooms making unfounded accusations of chip dumping or accidentally labeling a normal player a chip dumper, you bet it is happening without a doubt, when I am 110% certain of a particular room doing such, you can be 120% sure I will make this known to the public.

As far as bet365 giving the tournament player $500 as opposed to $3000, that’s ridiculous regardless of what their terms say……its like paying for a Cadillac and driving off the lot in a Chevy cause you didn’t read the fine print…….I don’t care what the fine print says, I PAID FOR THE CADDILAC.

Good luck at the tables.

**marc** · 01-17-06, 11:32 PM

Owned,

I would be careful if I were you. Party Poker is far and away better than places like prima poker. But don't forget, they can still close your account and keep your money. And at the end of the day, if they did so, or if another poker room took your money, there would be nothing you could do. You could run to the forums and give them bad press, but there is no way to force them to pay you.

**biggs** · 01-18-06, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by slacker00

OWNED,

I'd quit chip dumping. It's like doing 90 on the interstate. You can get away with it, but one of these days the police are going to get you.

its more like driving without any insurance

**edc0218** · 03-03-06, 08:48 PM

bet365 stole my money

Hi! I have been trying to settle this problem for over 4 months now but still no response from bet365. This started with my problem with betholdem which is handled by Prima Poker Networks .Betholdem accused me of chip dumping and held my funds for months. Bet 365 just got involved because they used the same Poker network which is Prima Poker. After months of investigation, betholdem didn't have sufficient evidence, therefore betholdem released my account. I just got my money back from Betwtts (betholdem poker). Since its is clear that they have no evidence.
Bet 365 Still is holding my funds for no reason. They made me fill out Some forms from IBAS of U.K. , they got back to me and they said our panel ruling side with bet 365. I asked if they updated their system and if they know that Prima Poker released my account. IBAS or Bet365 never got back to me.They just said we are just following our "PANEL RULING". That is all that they have to say. So, I don't know how I am going to get my money back.
It seems like Bet365 doesn't listen to anybody even their own clients.
Bet365 originally doesn't have anything to do with this. It is between Betwtts and Prima Poker.
It was just at that time I have a Bet365 account. I have $5,000 dollars in my Sportsbook account at bet365. It is just that I played poker at bet 365 that they have the same network which is Prima. They held my account when Betwtts held it.I guess because they both have Prima Poker as their Poker network so bet365 got dragged. But it was only betwtts who accused me of chip dumping.

Betwtts already released my money because after investigating it they have found no wrong doing. So why bet365 is still holding my funds? Ibas also saying that they stand by panel ruling. I requested a copy of their evidence and they couldn't. For there is no evidence. So they keep saying if I get accused of chip dumpimg even if it doesn't involved bet 365 .They will just hold my money .That is not fair. What do you think? It was the same problem that I wrote you guys a while ago with Betwtts . Since Betwtts released my funds shouldn't bet365 released my funds as well. So basically bet365 will just take my money even if this chip dumping accusation wasn't originally about Bet365 it is that they are holding it because Prima Poker alerted them. But since Prima Poker doesn't have enough evidence. Bet 365 should released my funds.

I am feelin frustrated do you know any site that handles inetrnet fraud? I just feel like they stole my money.

**edc0218** · 03-03-06, 08:54 PM

Betwtts Released My Funds

Betwtts released my funds finally.......

Thanks.

**edc0218** · 03-03-06, 08:57 PM

Any suggestions?