Played diceless CRAPS tonight at Barona

[Sam Odom]

Yep, a craps game without dice.

They put an auto blackjack shuffler on the table containing the A, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 from 8 decks (192 cards). The 'stick man' would burn however many cards the 'shooters' picked (1-6) then flip over the next two cards and that combo is the # 'rolled'. The dealer would put all of those cards back into the shuffler and start over until the Point was made or a Seven Out.

[gummo]

I love craps but I don't think I could get any rush out of that.

[knicknut]

That very slightly alters the probabilities, like a loaded die. Less chance of doubles. How would that affect the overall probability? Much better on first roll--less craps 2, 12, more yo 11 or 7.

But yeah, rolling the dice is the only fun part of craps (short of winning money).

[bigboydan]

I'll just stick to the original version of craps.

BTW, How did you end up doing playing this?

[sergfro]

I love Barona.....beautiful place

I still go to Pechenga....closer and seems like I get more lucky there

[thezbar]

There are some versions of this game in other indian casinos that offer some player advantage due to the card count.Using two shoes and drawing a card from each shoe you can find a minor edge if all the aces are pulled early[place the nine and ten] or all the sixes are pulled (place the four and five).This doesn't happen often however I did win last week when I was playing in a casino.This version of craps is not as fun as the real thing but still better than most casino games if your goal is to win

[operaman]

You may be wrong about this. This version would give the player a slight( or more ) advantage if the odds were 3x( or greater) for don't pass and don't come bets. Barona deals from 2 seperate decks I think.

[marke4]

interesting i have never heard of this. First off, where is Barona? Second, is this game there because they don't allow real dice? I go to school in North Dakota and i think they have outlawed any Dice game in bars here, or maybe that is South Dakota, i Can't keep them straight. ANd this is a state that tried to license online poker companies to set up camp in the state. And they allow any bar to offer blackjack and a pig wheel, really a rip off of roullette but with worse odds. I wouldn't mind giving this a shot.

[Willie Bee]

Few things in life are more entertaining to me than a good, lively craps table. Can't imagine how it would be any fun on-line.

[thezbar]

You could be correct operaman.My play was at Pechanga which pulls one card from two different shoes to produce the number.The cut card was in the middle of the brick.As the session started there was six after six coming out with very few aces coming out of either shoe.I would guess there was about 20 sixes out and four aces out when another player started betting the 30/1 snake eyes bet and won.I figured the ratio of low numbers was greater than high numbers so I would hit the place bets and drag the winnings not pressing on the low numbers for this brief period.The sevens would hit as often as the numbers but with the odds I was able to win and get out before losing the winnings back.
You're point about the d.c. may be correct,my real point is the there may be a edge at times with this type of craps game

[Ganchrow]

That very slightly alters the probabilities, like a loaded die. Less chance of doubles. How would that affect the overall probability? Much better on first roll--less craps 2, 12, more yo 11 or 7.

But yeah, rolling the dice is the only fun part of craps (short of winning money).

This style (A, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 from 8 decks chosen 2 cards at a time) decreases the probability of doubles from 16.667% to 16.230%, increases the probability of a 7 from 16.667% to 16.754%, reduces the probability of a craps (2, 3, or 12) from 11.111% to 10.995%, and increases the probability of an 11 from 5.556% to 5.585%.

Overall, this reduces the house edge on the pass line from 1.414% to 1.336% with 0x odds, from 0.848% to 0.802% with 1x odds, from 0.606% to 0.573% with 2x odds, from 0.471% to 0.445% with 3x odds, and from 0.326% to 0.308% with 5x odds.

(In general for odds of nX, this will reduce the house edge from 4.242% / (3 + 2*n) to 4.009% / (3 + 2n), meaning the "diceless 8-deck" craps house edge is 94.492% of "regular" craps.)

[Sam Odom]

Ganchrow, what I see you saying is:

In small trials, like 2-3hrs at the table, there is too small of a difference to realize an advantage. Correct?

[Sam Odom]

BTW, How did you end up doing playing this?

Dan my boy I lost $33.00 in about 1hr of playing. They got their 2 'free' buffet comps back.

[Ganchrow]

Ganchrow, what I see you saying is:

In small trials, like 2-3hrs at the table, there is too small of a difference to realize an advantage. Correct?

Well, there's no advantage for the player no matter for how long you play.

Play 200 come out rolls, at a $100 pass line be, and you'd expect to lose $282.80 playing "regular" craps, and lose $267.20 playing diceless craps, a difference of $15.60.