Is Russel Westbrook > Kevin Durant

[KiDBaZkiT]

They are both outstanding players. Thread over.

So many morons post long nonsense bullshit here. Sad when their long winded posts even manage to make a simpleton like jj seem slightly above mentally challenged.

Why not just come out and take a shot instead of be a passive aggressive f\*g? Grits n gravy oooo how funny man. WHAT A f\*g!!!!!!!!

[KiDBaZkiT]

They are both outstanding players. Thread over.

So many morons post long nonsense bullshit here. Sad when their long winded posts even manage to make a simpleton like jj seem slightly above mentally challenged.

oooooo Im gonna take a subtle shot and try and seem like an intellectual. Prob the biggest vocab you have ever posted, congrats. Fukkin fagggot!

[LT Profits]

Westbrook is second in the NBA in PER behind Anthony Davis. Those two are clear of Curry, Harden and LeBron this season.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

[KiDBaZkiT]

Westbrook is second in the NBA in PER behind Anthony Davis. Those two are clear of Curry, Harden and LeBron this season.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Useless stat. Means nothing. Anthony Davis will be on vacation either in about 3.5 weeks or 4.5 if hes super lucky.

[will2survive]

This is a silly question.

Westbrook is better and it's not even close.

I thought that you were intelligent. Both men play different positions, which makes it difficult to compare. Kevin Durant has been a better player his entire career. Now, that he's injured and Westbrook is playing on a team in which he can do whatever he want's people think that he's better? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Durant is the BETTER NBA player.

[meyer0416]

Durant is better and always will be.. 2 ships in his future

[STAX]

I didnt mean to come across as a Westbrook hater... I really like the guy... He plays balls out every second he is on the court and he is very talented, but the thread is comparing him to Kevin Durant... and its not even close. I guess you will just never understand that there is so much more to basketball than points rebounds and assists. Show me your FG% and turnovers per game, then Ill judge your pts/reb/ast. I don't even like Chris Paul, but comparing the two is ridiculous. And Ill take Westbrook's supporting cast over Paul's any day. Griffin is a beast, Illl give you that, but he is no Kevin Durant, plus Griffin has never stayed healthy. Paul has an Oaktree as a center, a journyman defensive specialist as a SF, and a white kid from Duke as a SG, not to mention one of the 5 worst benches outside of Crawford in the NBA.

If basketball success was solely based on pts reb and ast, San Antonio would finish in the bottom 5 every year, when's the last time they had a player avg 20 pts a game? Or 10 reb a game? or 10 ast? SA wins because they defend as a team better than anyone, and are very efficient on offense.

Any time I see a sexy statline, I immediately look at two stats: missed FGs and turnovers. Then I judge the game as being great or not. Westbrook is needing 30 shots to get 36 points. How many times has he had a quad-double (pts/reb/ast/turnovers)? On average he misses over 3 shots and has over 1 turnover EVERY QUARTER of the game!!

[BigDofBA]

I've said he is better for like 3-4 years now.

That's why I've always had a Westbrook avatar.

People used to always blame Russ when OKC would lose in the playoffs but Durant was the one getting taken out of games. He couldn't even get the ball with Tony Allen on him.

[LT Profits]

Useless stat. Means nothing. Anthony Davis will be on vacation either in about 3.5 weeks or 4.5 if hes super lucky.

Actually PER may be the best stat there is as of now because it combines a bunch of stats into one neat number. Its like the WAR of the NBA.

[The Kraken]

I didnt mean to come across as a Westbrook hater... I really like the guy... He plays balls out every second he is on the court and he is very talented, but the thread is comparing him to Kevin Durant... and its not even close. I guess you will just never understand that there is so much more to basketball than points rebounds and assists. Show me your FG% and turnovers per game, then Ill judge your pts/reb/ast. I don't even like Chris Paul, but comparing the two is ridiculous. And Ill take Westbrook's supporting cast over Paul's any day. Griffin is a beast, Illl give you that, but he is no Kevin Durant, plus Griffin has never stayed healthy. Paul has an Oaktree as a center, a journyman defensive specialist as a SF, and a white kid from Duke as a SG, not to mention one of the 5 worst benches outside of Crawford in the NBA.

If basketball success was solely based on pts reb and ast, San Antonio would finish in the bottom 5 every year, when's the last time they had a player avg 20 pts a game? Or 10 reb a game? or 10 ast? SA wins because they defend as a team better than anyone, and are very efficient on offense.

Any time I see a sexy statline, I immediately look at two stats: missed FGs and turnovers. Then I judge the game as being great or not. Westbrook is needing 30 shots to get 36 points. How many times has he had a quad-double (pts/reb/ast/turnovers)? On average he misses over 3 shots and has over 1 turnover EVERY QUARTER of the game!!

Don't discredit sexy stat lines, each point, assist and rebound is something tangible that helps OKC win. It's not like in FB when a QB throws a 40 yard completion against a prevent D just before half. RW's stats mean something.

And i know you're not a hater, we all have differing opinions, that's all. But that's why I asked the question, to get different perspective and you gave that and i appreciate it.

I will say this, had I asked this question anytime before this year, I'd have gotten 3 replies and Smoke would have said "noooooooo" but now we're actually able to debate it. Russell is improving his game every year and he looks really polished this year. First time he looks like a bball PG and not just an amazing athlete running the point. Good on him.

RW may not be better than KD but it's close either way

[The Kraken]

Durant is better and always will be.. 2 ships in his future

Hard to take your opinion seriously when your mind is already made up. But thanks for being so transparent with your bias

[STAX]

Don't discredit sexy stat lines, each point, assist and rebound is something tangible that helps OKC win. It's not like in FB when a QB throws a 40 yard completion against a prevent D just before half. RW's stats mean something.

and each turnover and missed FG is something that helps OKC lose. RW misses over 12 FGs a game and has over 4 turnovers per game (that 16 possessions a game, 4 each qtr). Of RW's 21+ FGA per game, Im guessing at least 4 of them (and that being conservative) are horrible shots. Probably half of his 4.3 turnovers per game are from trying to do too much. If he could just tone it down just a little, and really concentrate on efficiency instead of raw numbers, it would help OKC immensely as a team. I would much rather see him average 22 pts and 7 ast a game instead of 27 and 9, if it meant raising his FG% 3 pts and cutting his TO's in half. Look at Steph Curry's efficiency as a prime example. Thats why it isnt even really that close who the better player is right now. It boils down to basketball IQ... it isnt smart to go on a 1 on 3 fastbreak and pull up from the elbow, even if its an open look. Even if you make that shot 50% of the time... that is still not 1.2 pts per possession because you have zero chance to get the rebound on a miss. Curry understands this, RW doesnt...

[TwoWays]

Russel Westbrook not better than Durant. He is also not top point guard...maybe top 5. The end.

[STAX]

tonights game is a prime example... RW 5/14 for 16 pts and 2 TOs at halftime... Tony Parker 7/11 for 15 pts and 0 TOs... OKC is down 21 pts. You tell me who the best PG on the floor is... I promise you San Antonio and Greg Popovich lick their chops when facing RW...

[TwoWays]

Tony packers been the best point guard for as far back as I can remember. Guy has all the accolades, here and for his country.

[STAX]

Tony packers been the best point guard for as far back as I can remember. Guy has all the accolades, here and for his country.

agreed. Gimme Curry, Parker, Paul all over RW without question. PG, especially, is a position you cannot judge on raw stats alone...

[The Kraken]

tonights game is a prime example... RW 5/14 for 16 pts and 2 TOs at halftime... Tony Parker 7/11 for 15 pts and 0 TOs... OKC is down 21 pts. You tell me who the best PG on the floor is... I promise you San Antonio and Greg Popovich lick their chops when facing RW...

But that's one game. You have to remember, OKC is not a very good team right now. All they have is RW with KD and Ibaka out. He's shouldering a heavy load. Teams are double and triple teaming him yet he still racking up triple doubles.

Most importantly, OKC is 7-2 when Russ has a triple double, 8-2 if you count the one in Miami in which he was just a rebound away. OKC wins when he's involved and taking over games.

[The Kraken]

and each turnover and missed FG is something that helps OKC lose. RW misses over 12 FGs a game and has over 4 turnovers per game (that 16 possessions a game, 4 each qtr). Of RW's 21+ FGA per game, Im guessing at least 4 of them (and that being conservative) are horrible shots. Probably half of his 4.3 turnovers per game are from trying to do too much. If he could just tone it down just a little, and really concentrate on efficiency instead of raw numbers, it would help OKC immensely as a team. I would much rather see him average 22 pts and 7 ast a game instead of 27 and 9, if it meant raising his FG% 3 pts and cutting his TO's in half. Look at Steph Curry's efficiency as a prime example. Thats why it isnt even really that close who the better player is right now. It boils down to basketball IQ... it isnt smart to go on a 1 on 3 fastbreak and pull up from the elbow, even if its an open look. Even if you make that shot 50% of the time... that is still not 1.2 pts per possession because you have zero chance to get the rebound on a miss. Curry understands this, RW doesnt...

He's also averaging nearly 10 FT's per game. He puts immense pressure on the opposing teams defense and gets guys into foul trouble unlike anyone else in the league with the exception of Harden.

And I'm not arguing Russ vs. everyone else in the league like Steph who's having a great year nor am I saying he is a complete player, he has weaknesses like everyone else. Just simply him vs. KD. I think it's much closer than your admitting

[STAX]

theres a direct corrolation of adjusted FG % among guards in the NBA and winning...

The top 10 guards according to Adj FG%... overall rank (all positions) noted:

2. Korver .683
5. Curry .580
6. Reddick .574
10. W. Mathews .563
13. D. Green .555
14. K. Thompson .552
15. Dragic .552
24. Paul .535
26. Middleton .533
27. K. Irving .532

Bottom 10 guards according to Adj FG%... overall rank (all positions) noted:

116. M Carter Williams .406
115. Kobe Bryant .411
114. DeRozen .413
113. Waiters .431
112. T Burke .432
111. K. Walker .440
110. E. Turner .448
107. D. Rose .454
106. Westbrook .455
104. R. Jackson .459

[The Kraken]

Interesting that 3 of the bottom 10 are on a team whose record is currently 41-30 and winning 58% of their games

That's not much of a direct correlation

Edit: Reggie Jackson also has been on the OKC Thunder all season so 4 outta the bottom 10 are on a team that is winning 58% of their games

[STAX]

Yeah Im not arguing against against you Kraken... just stating some facts and stats to those claiming RW is the best PG in the NBA. you didnt make that claim. But comparing Durant and RW... its not a coincidence OKC is a borderline playoff team with RW leading the way, and a title contender when Durant is leading the way

[bhoor]

It is more like of CRonaldo_vs_Messi comparison. Well, any knowledgeable soccer fan would pick Messi over Ronaldo. Yet this debate comes now and then regardless how good Messi compared to any other player in modern soccer era, not just to Ronaldo. However, I do think Zidane was much better player in big games compared to these two players, though stats do not back him up. Yes, stats can be misleading at times.

[STAX]

Interesting that 3 of the bottom 10 are on a team whose record is currently 41-30 and winning 58% of their games

That's not much of a direct correlation

Edit: Reggie Jackson also has been on the OKC Thunder all season so 4 outta the bottom 10 are on a team that is winning 58% of their games

where is the 4th one at? Jackson and Waiters didnt play much together when they were on the same team, which wasnt long anyways. Waiters and Westbrook are the only two on the same team... Look at the teams of the players on the top list and the teams on the bottom list.

[STAX]

Also the fact that OKC is winning despite the inefficiency is a testiment to Scott Brooks being a good coach and the role players being better than they get credit for. Also more the reason for Westbrook to tone it down a little... think how good OKC could be if Westbrook could raise that AFG% 5 points to 50%. It would mean taking less shots and having slightly worse stats, but the team would benefit immensely

[The Kraken]

where is the 4th one at? Jackson and Waiters didnt play much together when they were on the same team, which wasnt long anyways. Waiters and Westbrook are the only two on the same team... Look at the teams of the players on the top list and the teams on the bottom list.

You're right, not sure why I thought their was another. I counted Jackson twice.

I know there is no definitive answer, only opinions. Your opinion is obviously backed up by facts and I certainly appreciate that. Mine, not so much. I like Russ out of control, balls to the wall style. Guy gives 120% each game.

If I was at the park and picking first, I'd pick Russ first. And we'd steam roll you and KD

[STAX]

haha... I love watching RW too... love his effort, passion, and energy. I think sky is the limit for him...

Another thing is you cannot really judge something like this based on regular season... wait till the playoffs to decide if RW is better than KD. If RW gets OKC to the West finals this year, Ill admit he is better than KD...

[jjgold]

Just watch tonight

Its why City has zero shot

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

Russell Westbrook, as much as I like the guy, exemplifies everything that is wrong with individual basketball statistics.

The number of possessions a player uses is so explicitly tied to their statistics.

Many players can average monster numbers with a usage rate >30%

[The Kraken]

But Mo the problem with that is on this OKC Team, the one out there tonight, they got nobody else. Kanter is nice but beyond that, no one. So Westbrook is going to get a ton of possessions. He's their only option. And when OKC faces a veteran team with Pop at the helm, SA will shut him down. His efficiency will suck against teams like the Spurs, until he gets help. Westbrook is great but he ain't better than Pop and the Spurs. Not without help.

[jjgold]

Westbrook eventually is going to get hurt playing like a maniac… I hope it doesn't happen but somethings going to weaken in his body

[bigtymer56]

1. Need to see some posts from the dudes claiming westbrook was better 3-4 years ago. Even as somebody that defended for years aint never thought of any craziness like that.

2. Guys still bringing up Durant not being aggressive and tough enough. You can win and be great without being Jordan or Kobe. Somebody brought up how he's scared to post up. Guy averages around 30 shooting 50%...why the hell would he be worried about posting people up. Its like getting on Wade for not shooting 3s.

3. Did people just forget how good Durant has been the last few years cuz he got hurt this season. Guy was the MVP and just because Westbrook has a couple of good months hes better.

Guys couldnt even wait to see what he does in the playoffs before crowning him. All the haters are gonna come back if he goes out an pulls a James Harden in the 1st round.

[Jeffie]

I really don't see the point in comparing them both. They have proven to be great together, making it deep in the playoffs numerous times. If durant can get healthy Kanter might be the difference and they just could win it all this year.

[DiggityDaggityDo]

Westbrook eventually is going to get hurt playing like a maniac… I hope it doesn't happen but somethings going to weaken in his body

Aaaaaand Durant is the one who ends up injured.

Out 4-6 months.