Top Five Pitchers to Fade and Follow to Open 2009

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  • VegasDave
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-03-07
    • 8056

    #1
    Top Five Pitchers to Fade and Follow to Open 2009
    Top Five Pitchers to Fade and Follow to Open 2009

    Every year pitchers come out of the gate yielding huge profits if you can correctly identify which to fade and which to follow before the season begins and before the bookies catch up.

    So who will be this year’s cash cows? Only time will tell, but I have a few pointers as to whom you should at least be considering.



    TOP FIVE PITCHERS TO FOLLOW


    1. Francisco Liriano, Minnesota Twins

    Scholars and fans of the game will remember this name and remember that this guy was great a couple of years ago. But only a few will remember how great he was, as so much information has entered our handicapping brains since then.

    Liriano started 2006 in the bullpen, but finally made his first start of the year on May 19th. Over the course of his 15 starts, he was simply masterful: 96.1 IP, 11-3 record, 1.96 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 110 strikeouts.

    Before the injury that caused him to miss the entire 2007 campaign, Liriano was being slated as the next Johan Santana. His numbers when healthy rival the absolute elite in the game. There is no guarantee that he will return to 2006 form right away, or at all. But each time you bet Liriano in the early stages of the season, you will be getting a potentially dominant, elite pitcher at a bargain-basement price.

    2. Max Scherzer, Arizona Diamondbacks

    How this kid has managed to stay relatively under the radar is beyond me. In 2007, he dominated the minor leagues to the tune of 106.2 IP, 2.87 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 131 Ks. Last year in the big leagues, Scherzer started and pitched out of the bullpen, putting together an impressive 3.05 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, and 66 Ks in 56 innings pitched.

    Having watched most of his starts last year, I wish I had a better vocabulary to describe how nasty his pitches are. I hate to throw out a name like Tim Lincecum (as Lincecum is in a league of his own), but the name comes to mind.

    With Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, Jon Garland, and Doug Davis, the Diamondbacks boast a strong enough pitching staff to pitch Scherzer fifth in their rotation. He will be a severe mismatch against almost any other end-of-the-rotation pitcher in the game; make sure to cash in on him before the betting public and the bookies catch on to how good he is.

    3. John Danks, Chicago White Sox

    With the success of teammate Gavin Floyd in 2008, everyone seemed to just clump the two of these guys together, as “that serviceable guy on the White Sox who’s having a good year.” Even the White Sox coupled them together, offering them both the exact same 4-year, $16 million extension. Floyd signed it, Danks did not. The reason; Danks’ agent told him that he could do much better. And I couldn’t agree more.

    Taking nothing away from Gavin Floyd who is another good young pitcher, Danks is the better of the two. In fact, he is an excellent pitcher by any standard; lost in the Cliff Lee and Daisuke Matsuzaka flurry that was the AL’s pitching last year, Danks pitched 195 innings with a tidy 3.32 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, and 159 Ks. All indications are that he can improve on those numbers this year; he has great stuff and great control to go with it.

    In 2010, Danks will be recognized as one of the Top-25 pitchers in baseball. Let’s make some money on him while he’s still just “one of those guys in Chicago.”

    4. Mike Pelfrey, New York Mets

    A highly touted pitching prospect as the ninth overall draft pick in 2005, the towering righty did a whole lot of disappointing to start off his major league career, floundering each opportunity he got in the big leagues in 2006 and 2007 with an ERA over five.

    A slow start in 2008 had Pelfrey being slated as a bust, but this time the Mets stuck with him, and it paid off. After a 2-6 start in April and May with hitters hitting over .300 against him, Pelfrey started turning things around in June. From June to August, Pelfrey pitched 113.2 innings with an 11-2 record, 3.01 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and 68 strikeouts.

    In September he started struggling again, but I give him a pass for that due to fatigue, as he’d never come close to pitching this many innings in a season in his career. Starting off the season poorly and ending the season poorly is a great way to go completely unnoticed by bettors, and most will be fading him if anything. A prospect this highly touted that showed signs of putting it all together last season, pitching for a serious contender with one of the best set-up man/closer combos in the game make Pelfrey well worth a look every time he hits the mound.

    5. Hiroki Kuroda, Los Angeles Dodgers
    You’d be hard-pressed to find a starting pitcher much unluckier than Kuroda was in 2008. Boasting a perfectly respectable 3.73 ERA and 1.22 WHIP, as well as keeping the ball on the ground very well, Kuroda didn’t receive much run support in 2008 and ended up with a losing record at 9-10.

    Putting the win loss record aside, it was an impressive year for Kuroda, a Japanese League import pitching his first year in the major league. He forced a lot of ground balls and didn’t give out many free passes (42). Now with a season of experience against MLB hitters under his belt, no reason why he can’t take a step forward this year.

    And with a healthy Rafael Furcal, Manny Ramirez for the full year, and another year’s worth of experience for young hitters like Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, and James Loney, offensive support shouldn’t be a problem for the Dodgers this season.

    Look for Kuroda to improve on most of his 2008 stats, and most notably for betting purposes, his win total.

    TOP FIVE PITCHERS TO FADE


    1. Daisuke Matsuzaka, Boston Red Sox

    As the natural order of things has to balance itself out, for every unlucky pitcher like Kuroda, we must have a lucky one like Matsuzaka. And I hate to use the term luck as he certainly deserves credit for getting himself out of the jams he put himself into, but a sub-3.00 ERA and an 18-3 record just don’t compute in my head with 94 walks and a WHIP of over 1.30. All it would have taken was a few seeing eye base hits in all of Daisuke’s bases loaded jams to turn that ERA up a few notches and that record down a few.

    People will argue the same about Cliff Lee, and many will be fading him; but I will not. I studied his games closely last year as I couldn’t believe the numbers he was putting up, and his recipe for success was pretty simple; control the fastball, throw first pitch strikes, and don’t walk anyone. His stats will likely not stay as super-human as they were last year, but 34 walks and a 1.11 WHIP make a lot more sense with a big winning record and low ERA than Daisuke’s peripherals do.

    Don’t get me wrong; Matsuzaka does have lights out stuff and can be dangerous when on. But I believe Matsuzaka’s 2007 ERA of 4.40 was a lot more realistic than last year’s 2.90, and considering Boston already gets inflated numbers against them as they are a big public favorite and Matsuzaka is a household name and was in the running for the Cy Young award last year, there is little doubt that there will be excellent prices on the other team in these match ups.

    2. Javier Vazquez, Atlanta Braves
    I love strikeouts as much as the next guy. I really do. With over 2000 strikeouts in his 11 year major league career, no one can deny that Vazquez can make batters miss with the best of them.

    The problem is, when he isn’t whiffing batters, he’s getting crushed by them. Since his masterful breakout season back in 2003, Vazquez has had an ERA under 4.40 only once, during a very respectable campaign in 2007. In that same 5-year stretch, he’s had three seasons with a record under .500. He gives up way too many home runs, averaging over 27 per season over the course of his career.

    People seem willing to ignore his win-loss record, ERA, and WHIP and dub him a great starter due to the fact that he has overpowering stuff. Not me. Back in the NL facing pitchers instead of DHs, no reason to believe the strikeout numbers won’t continue to flourish, and long term the ERA may come down in a relatively pitcher friendly Braves ballpark.

    Short term, however, as he struggles to get used to a new bunch of hitters in a very powerful hitting division, his name and strike out totals will provide false favorite lines begging to be faded.

    3. Joe Saunders, Los Angeles Angels
    Joe Saunders is the type of pitcher that is not overpowering, but will generally pitch well enough to keep his team in the game, as his ERA in the mid-4.00 range over 31 starts in 2006 and 2007 indicated.

    Last year his team didn’t let his efforts go to waste, earning him 17 wins in the process. His 3.41 ERA and 1.21 WHIP were certainly enough to stay competitive all year. Saunders pitched wonderfully before the All-Star break, putting together a 12-5 record, 3.07 ERA, and 1.13 WHIP. As the season wound down, he started coming back down to earth at 5-2, 3.94 ERA, 1.34 WHIP post All-Star break.

    Saunders will still be a serviceable pitcher this season, but with John Lackey and Ervin Santana both out to start the year, he will be thrust into the spotlight. Assuming he doesn’t fold under all of the added pressure, he will still be going against the opponent’s first or second best starter and will almost always be outclassed in these match ups. Assuming he does fold under the pressure? The term 'easy money' comes to mind.

    4. Felix Hernandez, Seattle Mariners
    “King” Felix came into the league with about as much hype as a young pitcher can have surrounding him. His rookie season did nothing but fuel the fire, with a razor sharp 2.67 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, and 77 Ks in 84.1 innings.

    Since then, he hasn’t been much better than mediocre, struggling with control and simply giving up way too many hits over the last three seasons, yielding 195+ each year. He relies too much on his fastball, and it isn’t as un-hittable as everyone originally thought it was going to be.

    Bettors and fans won’t let go of the hype, still seeing his name and thinking this will be the year, or that Seattle is a worthwhile bet as an underdog because he’s pitching. Don’t buy in. Let go. He’s a good pitcher, not a great pitcher. Take advantage of the fact that others will be betting him as their “smart” upset pick, and take the discounted money on the other side.

    5. Ryan Dempster, Chicago Cubs
    Nothing in the way Ryan Dempster pitched last year gave any hints that his season was a fluke. At 17-6, 2.96 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, and 187 Ks, Dempster was one of the NL’s best pitchers last year; and pitching for a contender made him even more valuable.

    This one is a gut feeling; but more so, it is the skeptic in me screaming that last season was an aberration. Unlike Matsuzaka, Saunders, and Hernandez who all have relatively limited MLB experience that I am basing my speculations on, Dempster has been in the league for 12 years; and hasn’t done a whole lot of impressing.

    In seven years as a starter with Florida and Cincinnati, Dempster had only one season in which his ERA was not over 4.70 and his WHIP was not at or over 1.50. That isn’t just bad, it is terrible.

    He then had four years in relief, one strong one in 2005, and three mediocre ones. He never had a WHIP lower than 1.34, and in 2006 and 2007, his ERA was at 4.80 and 4.72, respectively.

    He makes the conversion to starter, and just like that becomes a reliable ace. Only three of his 11 seasons did he ever have an ERA under 4.70, and just like that, his ERA is under 3.00. Only twice did he have a WHIP under 1.40, and just like that, it is at 1.21.

    There are two explanations. Excellent pitching coaching and years of experience finally came together and blossomed Dempster into an elite starting pitcher, or last year was an aberration that will not repeat, especially now that hitters have tape to study on him.

    If you love a feel good story, by all means, tail Dempster until he gives you a reason not to. Personally, I’ll be fading him and all that public love the Cubs get.
  • fiveteamer
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 04-14-08
    • 10805

    #2
    Vegas Dave are you gambling now that you have a job???
    Comment
    • Bread
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 03-16-08
      • 23726

      #3
      Nice write-up. We'll have to check back on Felix Hernandez in a few months though. Expect a nice start from him.
      Comment
      • VegasDave
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 01-03-07
        • 8056

        #4
        Originally posted by Bread
        Nice write-up. We'll have to check back on Felix Hernandez in a few months though. Expect a nice start from him.
        He is an enigma; you certainly aren't the only one, and I may be guilty of giving up on him too early. Time will tell.
        Comment
        • fiveteamer
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 04-14-08
          • 10805

          #5
          What is the enigma. He is 22 most guys his age are in A ball learning.
          Comment
          • Chi_archie
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 07-22-08
            • 63172

            #6
            young guys like that are dangerous, one little tweek in their mechanics can send them into year long or longer funks...... especially lefties it seems.....


            guys like ollie perez, tom gorzellanny, dontrelle willis, rick ankiel ect... come up have success then all the sudden they suck... or have 2 horrible outings then a brilliant outing and have you all confused


            I totally agree on the dempster one.... in addition to what you said Dave... look at his workload increase in 2008 from his previous years.... I know he has a mature arm, but that still sends red flags up for me when a pitcher has such a huge increase in innings over one year.

            about Danks... I have to go back and check, but I feel like anytime near the end of the year that the sox were a heavy chalk fav with Danks pitching... they lost
            Comment
            • VegasDave
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 01-03-07
              • 8056

              #7
              Originally posted by fiveteamer
              What is the enigma. He is 22 most guys his age are in A ball learning.
              The enigma is how dominant and overpowering he can look one day, and how completely pedestrian he can look in giving up 10+ hits on other days. Yes inconsistency is normal among young pitchers, but he is more consistently hittable than he is un-hittable.

              No doubt he has time to blossom into a great pitcher some day; but the early responses in this thread prove my point. People love this guy and love to take shots on the Mariners with him on the mound, and the value isn't there because of it.
              Comment
              • Boner_18
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 08-24-08
                • 8301

                #8
                What about fading The Big Unit. I am talking strictly from a value/inflated line perspective until he reaches 300. Thoughts?
                Comment
                • VegasDave
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 01-03-07
                  • 8056

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Chi_archie
                  about Danks... I have to go back and check, but I feel like anytime near the end of the year that the sox were a heavy chalk fav with Danks pitching... they lost
                  Last 5 games:

                  10/05 Tampa Bay (Playoffs) -145, WIN (6.2 IP, 3 runs)
                  09/30 Minnesota -143, WIN (8 IP, 0 runs)
                  09/26 Cleveland -145, LOSS (4 IP, 7 runs)
                  09/21 Kansas City -130, WIN (7 IP, 0 runs)
                  09/14 Detroit -160, WIN (6 IP, 0 runs)

                  He definitely did have a bad stretch in late August/early September, but he righted the ship down the stretch.

                  I think he has the potential to improve on last year anyway, and wouldn't mind seeing him in that -130 to -140 range to start the season.
                  Comment
                  • daggerkobe
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 03-25-08
                    • 10744

                    #10
                    Fade Dice-K, Saunders, Dempster and King Felix..... and bet Pelfrey and Kuroda????

                    What have u been snorting VD??
                    Comment
                    • VegasDave
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 01-03-07
                      • 8056

                      #11
                      Originally posted by daggerkobe
                      Fade Dice-K, Saunders, Dempster and King Felix..... and bet Pelfrey and Kuroda????

                      What have u been snorting VD??
                      I sincerely hope (and am in fact counting on) the majority of the betting public feeling the exact same way, making the numbers in my favor all the more advantageous.
                      Comment
                      • Chi_archie
                        SBR Aristocracy
                        • 07-22-08
                        • 63172

                        #12
                        Johnson looked good, after the all-star break this year.... If he is healthy I still think he can be dominate...

                        Also I think a big key will be this..... Randy doesn't have to pitch in arizona anymore...... which is key, without his over powering fastball anymore, his slider was more important...

                        in arizona in the dry air, breaking pitches don't have anywhere near the same bite... I'd bet dollars to do-nuts that Johnson's ERA away from Zona was much better then at home...

                        in San fran... he will have tons of humidity... i think he could win 13-16 games if he stays healthy with this young S.F team.... I like the young offense they have..but they will have alot of bad stretches and 0,1,2 run games still... If Randy has alot of no run support tough 2-1 losses, I think he may one of two of the rookies in the clubhouse and then Randy will be out of the job....
                        Comment
                        • Brock Landers
                          SBR Aristocracy
                          • 06-30-08
                          • 45359

                          #13
                          Fade Bartolo Colon any chance you get, that guy has no business being on a major league roster any more.
                          Comment
                          • VegasDave
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 01-03-07
                            • 8056

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Boner_18
                            What about fading The Big Unit. I am talking strictly from a value/inflated line perspective until he reaches 300. Thoughts?
                            Agree with Archie, I'd take a wait and see approach here.

                            I like where your head is at; and if indeed the books overcompensate for the public's adoration of chasing history, you may be on to something.

                            San Francisco's offense is awfully weak though, and I don't really see bookmakers giving improved odds to the teams they are up again just because of Johnson. San Fran has a great pitching staff and will likely get pretty consistent numbers no matter who is on the mound.

                            Like Archie, I think Johnson still potentially has some life left in those old bones. Definitely circle his games on your calender, but pick your spots wisely.
                            Comment
                            • Chi_archie
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 07-22-08
                              • 63172

                              #15
                              speaking of colon and the white sox roster.... when the 55 year old Jose Contrerous comes back.... tail him..../

                              all off season we've had about this miraculous like recovery he has had from his injury, and how he is the best shape of his life, and has his fastball back and he lost 35 lbs or whatever....

                              guy must be taking some great new designer drugs.... because no way a guy as old as him recovers from a snapped achilles AND gets into the best shape of his life as fast as he did......

                              this guy sold his soul to the devil or is juiced to the gills
                              Comment
                              • daggerkobe
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 03-25-08
                                • 10744

                                #16
                                Why would u fade guys that were consistent money makers last season? If u want value bet against CC Sabathia and his bloated -300s.

                                Dodgers I would stay clear of from the simple fact that the fatass with 20IQ is their closer and questionable middle relief.

                                But mods arent allowed to gamble VD. Its a good thing cause I think u'd go broke like Crazyl in tennis.
                                Comment
                                • VegasDave
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 01-03-07
                                  • 8056

                                  #17
                                  Interesting stuff Archie, thanks for the heads up...

                                  Would certainly be nice to get 2005 Contreras at 2007-08 Contreras prices.
                                  Comment
                                  • Chi_archie
                                    SBR Aristocracy
                                    • 07-22-08
                                    • 63172

                                    #18
                                    just checked.... Johnson's ERA away from Zona last year... 3.58 in 14 starts... in zona 4.22 in 16 starts.


                                    keep in mind people, when he go healthy he had a 2.41 ERA after the all star break

                                    also did some quick numbers crunching

                                    against his division LAD, Col, S.D (can't count S.F stats though he did have a 1.04 era in 4 starts against them) Johnson had a 2.58 ERA over 51 innings, allowiong only 38 hits and striking out 58.... so against his division.... HE STILL HAS IT
                                    Comment
                                    • VegasDave
                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                      • 01-03-07
                                      • 8056

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by daggerkobe
                                      Why would u fade guys that were consistent money makers last season? If u want value bet against CC Sabathia and his bloated -300s.

                                      Dodgers I would stay clear of from the simple fact that the fatass with 20IQ is their closer and questionable middle relief.

                                      But mods arent allowed to gamble VD. Its a good thing cause I think u'd go broke like Crazyl in tennis.
                                      Why wouldn't you fade consistent money makers from last season if you don't believe they will repeat last year's success? You have to take some chances.

                                      No right or wrong way to make money... It just seems inconsistent to me that you can see the value in fading Sabathia and his inflated lines, but you can't see it in Matsuzaka.

                                      I will be giving out regular plays and tracking them all season long, so we'll see how "broke" I go
                                      Comment
                                      • username474
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 01-09-09
                                        • 480

                                        #20
                                        I think Pelfrey will always come out of the gate slow,he has alot to get together mechanically.But I do agree he will have a good 09 . You still will never get good value with him being on the Mets.

                                        Vazquez on the other hand is quick starter ,and a second half fader.

                                        I will be fading Dempster in alot of spots this season.

                                        Someone else that you forgot about on your fade list is C.C . I don't think you will see him less then -230 for the begining of the season . With all of the big expectations on his shoulders this year I could see him going 7-7 to start the season.
                                        Comment
                                        • username474
                                          SBR Sharp
                                          • 01-09-09
                                          • 480

                                          #21
                                          I must type very slow, there was no mention of CC when I started typing.
                                          Comment
                                          • VegasDave
                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                            • 01-03-07
                                            • 8056

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by username474
                                            I think Pelfrey will always come out of the gate slow,he has alot to get together mechanically.But I do agree he will have a good 09 . You still will never get good value with him being on the Mets.

                                            Vazquez on the other hand is quick starter ,and a second half fader.

                                            I will be fading Dempster in alot of spots this season.

                                            Someone else that you forgot about on your fade list is C.C . I don't think you will see him less then -230 for the begining of the season . With all of the big expectations on his shoulders this year I could see him going 7-7 to start the season.
                                            Guys like CC I definitely agree will almost always have over-inflated lines, making betting his opponent a good "value" bet. But you could say the same about almost any elite starter in the game, and I personally don't like getting into the habit of blindly fading the game's best.

                                            Sabathia is a proven ace with dominant stuff. For 3 straight seasons now he has posted an ERA under 3.22 and a WHIP under 1.17. He is very real.

                                            Will the pinstripes and pressure get to him like they have so many before him? Maybe, and if you have the guts to fade him, it will pay huge dividends for you if you do. But I personally look for guys I believe are vulnerable and regularly beatable, and I don't think CC is. I think he is among the game's elite.
                                            Comment
                                            • VegasDave
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 01-03-07
                                              • 8056

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by username474
                                              I must type very slow, there was no mention of CC when I started typing.
                                              No worries. Welcome to SBR by the way
                                              Comment
                                              • daggerkobe
                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                • 03-25-08
                                                • 10744

                                                #24
                                                You're gonna bet against guys that are young and relatively healthy because u think they are 1 hit wonders yet u bet on guys coming off injuries and are washed up or never has-beens? Whoever taught u how to bet bases u should kick him in the nuts.

                                                Im gonna kick ur ass VD..... in baseball this season.

                                                Bet on it.
                                                Comment
                                                • VegasDave
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 01-03-07
                                                  • 8056

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by daggerkobe
                                                  You're gonna bet against guys that are young and relatively healthy because u think they are 1 hit wonders yet u bet on guys coming off injuries and are washed up or never has-beens? Whoever taught u how to bet bases u should kick him in the nuts.

                                                  Im gonna kick ur ass VD..... in baseball this season.

                                                  Bet on it.
                                                  I wish you nothing but the best this season

                                                  This is just an opinion article on guys to focus on. I NEVER suggest blindly fading anyone; every match-up should be looked at as an individual event and decisions should be made based on the individual game and its numbers.

                                                  You don't have to agree with me on these guys. There is a chance I may end up not fading or following a single game for a few of them if the numbers/matchup don't look right.

                                                  If I made a list of 5 elite pitchers to follow and 5 outright terrible pitchers to fade, where would the value be in that? All 10 of these guys are gambles; if I'm right on 6 or 7 of them, it will be profitable. If I'm wrong on 6 or 7 of them, it won't. Such is the nature of gambling
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Willie Bee
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 02-14-06
                                                    • 15726

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Chi_archie
                                                    about Danks... I have to go back and check, but I feel like anytime near the end of the year that the sox were a heavy chalk fav with Danks pitching... they lost
                                                    Here's what I could find on that Archie:

                                                    Sep 2: Chi -120, Lost
                                                    Sep 7: Chi -130 Lost
                                                    Sep 14: Chi -135 Won
                                                    Sep 21: Chi -135 Won
                                                    Sep 26: Chi -145 Lost
                                                    Sep 30: Chi -150 Won
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Chi_archie
                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                      • 07-22-08
                                                      • 63172

                                                      #27
                                                      thanks willie.....

                                                      my memory is not very good, as I swore he had some -175's and -180's but... I guess not


                                                      also i'm pretty sure the list of pitchers on Dave's Tail picks are quite a bit younger if you avg the ages out, then those on his fade list...


                                                      i'm just creating conversation for other names out there....

                                                      Dangerkoke, throw in your five fade and tail material picks, keep the discussion going
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Willie Bee
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 02-14-06
                                                        • 15726

                                                        #28
                                                        Ok, I did find one just in front of that list. ChiSox were -170 to -190 faves on Aug 27 with Danks starting, and the Orioles roughed him up in an 11-3 Baltimore win.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • TPowell
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 02-21-08
                                                          • 18842

                                                          #29
                                                          VD, Matsusaka's BABIP is crazy. He seems to always get batters to hit it right to people. Am going to be be using BABIP big time when it comes to fading and tailing SP's
                                                          Comment
                                                          • cocknocker
                                                            Restricted User
                                                            • 11-06-08
                                                            • 8001

                                                            #30
                                                            The best pitchers to fade as a heavy favorite is CC Sabathia, Cole Hamels, and Carlos Zambrano, Ervin Santana, and Justin Verlander. Checkout their numbers as avorites of over -150 or more and I think you'll be shocked
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Chi_archie
                                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                                              • 07-22-08
                                                              • 63172

                                                              #31
                                                              Hamels is having arm problems now too isn't he?
                                                              Comment
                                                              • VegasDave
                                                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                • 01-03-07
                                                                • 8056

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Chi_archie
                                                                Hamels is having arm problems now too isn't he?
                                                                He is, and a World Series hangover for the Phils wouldn't be out of the question either.

                                                                As I already said I think CC is an elite pitcher pitching for one of the best offenses in baseball. Personally, I'll pass.

                                                                Zambrano is a habitual slow starter, not a terrible option.

                                                                Verlander had an awful year last year, don't see him being that profitable of a fade this year.

                                                                Wouldn't fade Santana myself, but he's starting the season on the DL anyway.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • fiveteamer
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 04-14-08
                                                                  • 10805

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Why didn't you put AJ Burnett in there to fade.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • smitch124
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 05-19-08
                                                                    • 12566

                                                                    #34
                                                                    I still think the perception of Matt Cain is better than his actual performance, will have to wait to see the lines hung on his games to be sure...
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Chi_archie
                                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                                      • 07-22-08
                                                                      • 63172

                                                                      #35
                                                                      i look for young guys that pitched way way over a 10% increased workload in innings... especially rookie mlb pitchers.... that are coming off a decent year.. but pitched a huge workload, including a possible fall/winter league stint in 2008's offseason
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