Gold gang check in

[Sdotbold]

John stop promoting Breaking and entering from posters................jeez

LOL I'm sure a bunch of degens on here already raided their moms jewelry box. soon to start jumping in windows for their next deposit.

[Sdotbold]

I bought between $1345 and $1202 with a position that is about 70% complete. You may want to buy a 10% stake here at $1315 and buy on dips. I will say I feel strongly that gold is not going up much and will trade sideways for a year or so. That opinion has been stated by Goldman and other big timers. The big move up will fire up as paper currencies begin to buckle under their huge and rising debts. As they devalue their currencies so they can pay the debt, gold will go higher by default. Gold has no debt.

Right on Mr. Walker, by 2040 50% of our nations budget will be to pay off debt. Uncle Sam will just continue to print that cash...
Inflation is a bitch.

[SBR_John]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100825680

A short interview with Dr. Ron Paul about gold. Worth a look.

[SBR_John]

It may be interesting to track the spread between Bitcoins and gold. Obviously there has been no price correlation up to now.

[Winner_13]

How much money do you lot have in gold?

Is it even worth it to buy 10 shares or less?

[SBR_John]

How much money do you lot have in gold?

Is it even worth it to buy 10 shares or less?

You should own some gold as a hedge against the bad things that can happen with all the debt in the world. Even the all in gold bugs like me would not go more than 10% of your total portfolio. Buy a gold coin at your local coin dealer if you want to get your feet wet.

[brooks85]

How much money do you lot have in gold?

Is it even worth it to buy 10 shares or less?

the ETF to own is GLD, which I own and also GORO because it has lots of upside but riskier.

However, having gold coins in your hand is just the bee's knees.

[James D]

However, having gold coins in your hand is just the bee's knees.

Gold at 1318 now

Agreed, I own gold funds and have a pretty significant amount of gold in a safe deposit box. Despite that I still keep a handful of gold 1 oz coins and a 2 oz coin at my house just because I like the feel of them and kids love to see them. Having 10k in your hand in gold is much cooler then 10k in cash . There is just something about gold. I own platinum also but there is just something about gold.

[SBR_John]

Gold at 1318 now

Agreed, I own gold funds and have a pretty significant amount of gold in a safe deposit box. Despite that I still keep a handful of gold 1 oz coins and a 2 oz coin at my house just because I like the feel of them and kids love to see them. Having 10k in your hand in gold is much cooler then 10k in cash . There is just something about gold. I own platinum also but there is just something about gold.

Thought I might be the only one. I especially love the Buffalo. It has an oddly sharp edge and looks and feels ancient. Course it feels a hellva a lot better after the recent $130+ price rise.

[Gonad]

Moving again tonight... Silver is flat killing it...

[jarvol]

Bought NUGT at $30 just 2 or 3 weeks ago. Boom!

[SBR_John]

Up another $5, going for 9 straight up days. Quite a run.

[Optional]

You should own some gold as a hedge against the bad things that can happen with all the debt in the world. Even the all in gold bugs like me would not go more than 10% of your total portfolio. Buy a gold coin at your local coin dealer if you want to get your feet wet.

the ETF to own is GLD, which I own and also GORO because it has lots of upside but riskier.

However, having gold coins in your hand is just the bee's knees.

I haven't bought coins so don't know, but always thought the retail premium on gold coins kind of ruined their investment value.. as you are probably losing 10-15% on each end of the buy/sell? (I guess)

[brooks85]

It really depends on what coins you buy, and when you go to resell them, if you do, the value of it being a US minted coin is still there. So you might be paying slightly more upfront but you'll also be able to sell it for slightly more. You can also buy what they call "rounds" or just bars, that will chop the cost over spot in about half usually. So, usually a coin is something like $40-$50 over spot(price of metal at the time of purchase) while a round or bar could be half that.

The rounds are just as good especially if you get them from a reputable mint, lots of choices.

[Smoke]

Gold at 1318 now Agreed, I own gold funds and have a pretty significant amount of gold in a safe deposit box. Despite that I still keep a handful of gold 1 oz coins and a 2 oz coin at my house just because I like the feel of them and kids love to see them. Having 10k in your hand in gold is much cooler then 10k in cash . There is just something about gold. I own platinum also but there is just something about gold.

Whats your address?

[paco]

Read an article that india has more gold than the us reserve? Any truth to that?

[manny24]

right discussion

wrong forum

[SBR_John]

I haven't bought coins so don't know, but always thought the retail premium on gold coins kind of ruined their investment value.. as you are probably losing 10-15% on each end of the buy/sell? (I guess)

Not completely true. You pay about $50 over spot but the bids when you go to sell are about $25 over spot.

Keep in mind US minted coins have some very unique advantages. Since they are actually currency, ie the 1oz coin is stamped "$50", there are no IRS reporting requirements but there is on gold bars. They can also be transported as $50 coins. So you could take 200 coins out of the country and since its not over $10k there is no reporting even though they are actually worth $250k. To me gold coins are the ultimate Bitcoin. Back to your question; you pay basically a $25 premium over what you can sell them for but you get a lot for that $25.

[brooks85]

Not completely true. You pay about $50 over spot but the bids when you go to sell are about $25 over spot.

Keep in mind US minted coins have some very unique advantages. Since they are actually currency, ie the 1oz coin is stamped "$50", there are no IRS reporting requirements but there is on gold bars. They can also be transported as $50 coins. So you could take 200 coins out of the country and since its not over $10k there is no reporting even though they are actually worth $250k. To me gold coins are the ultimate Bitcoin. Back to your question; you pay basically a $25 premium over what you can sell them for but you get a lot for that $25.

Definitely can't argue you with any of that, US coins are the way to go. Buffalo's are my favorite too, love the rustic look.

[hockey216]

nobody really understands gold prices. people hold it to hedge tail risk (hyper inflation, recession). commodities entail heavy risk. if you aren't a sophisticated investor, try mutual funds instead of commodities markets.

[SBR_John]

nobody really understands gold prices. people hold it to hedge tail risk (hyper inflation, recession). commodities entail heavy risk. if you aren't a sophisticated investor, try mutual funds instead of commodities markets.

Good post. As much as we like to talk gold its less than 10% of my investments. Gold pays no dividends or interest and has no base to increase its intrinsic value. Gold has to go up 50% in value over ten years just to break even vs safe bond holdings. BUT, if the bottom drops out on the dollar gold will soar. Gold was $25 an ounce in 1960 when the dollar was worth something and the dollar has some bleak days ahead.

[corporatecoward]

Are you a fed? If so then by law you have tell me.

I'm a fed, fed up!

[Untied]

I still keep a handful of gold 1 oz coins and a 2 oz coin at my house just because I like the feel of them and kids love to see them. Having 10k in your hand in gold is much cooler then 10k in cash.

Whats your address?

SBR John keeping rolodex of posters who keep gold in the basement, in case Sh1t hits the fan.

[SBR_John]

Going for 10 days in a row UP. Already erased an early $5 hole with a $4 pop to the plus side.

[James D]

If rally does hit double digit consecutive days today that is quite amazing. Gold already barring something major lifted the bottom which is a great sign. I also am fond of the buffalo but so many 1oz and 2oz coins have great character.

Like John said good point hockey216, less informed people think if things god forbid absolutely collapsed then gold is a commodity. We obviously know that's not the case. If things absolutely collapse guns and food are the commodities of value LOL. But other far less drastic and far more realistic economic problems that may arise are where gold is a good hedge. However even is someone doesn't understand the intricacies of the market and the world wide economy gold despite the major recent drop has a great long term track record and is a strong investment in and of itself.

Sweep and untied keeping an informative thread amusing as well.

[manny24]

Russian gold flood

correction to be expected

[hockey216]

Good post. As much as we like to talk gold its less than 10% of my investments. Gold pays no dividends or interest and has no base to increase its intrinsic value. Gold has to go up 50% in value over ten years just to break even vs safe bond holdings. BUT, if the bottom drops out on the dollar gold will soar. Gold was $25 an ounce in 1960 when the dollar was worth something and the dollar has some bleak days ahead.

gold tanked last year. if you bought at the bottom and sold at the top, you made a killing... but keep in mind it's very difficult to time the market. if you bought at 1800 and sold at 1200, you lost 33%. commodities entail heavy risk.

try stock funds if you have a high risk tolerance. The S&P500 goes up by 9% per year long term. you will double your money every 8 years. Over 32 years your money will go up 32x if over that time it maintains its historical average of 9% per year. Mutual funds are less risky than commodities. Nobody really understands gold prices or can "time the market" in commodities short term.

from 1982 to 2005 (23 years) gold remained flat at 400. That's a 23 year period where gold returned 0%.

from 1980 to 2000 the S&P500 went up 1,500% (return of 15x).

Since 1950, the S&P500 has increased over 100X (10,000%)

Sure, gold can soar during a major recession whereas stocks wont. Stocks and gold both soar during hyperinflation.

My opinion though, is that the S&P500 is a better, more diversified long term growth investment. Yes, the stock market has risk. But over long periods of time, the stock market has outperformed gold, bonds: pretty much everything.

Gold has not gone up 100x since 1950... even with its recent bull run during the last 10 years.

Put your money in an ETF mutual fund that mimicks the S&P500. I think you will do better over the long run. You'll own a piece of the 500 largest companies in america. blue-chip stocks. strong companies like Coca-Cola, BkofAma, Wells Fargo, General Electric, Ford, Apple, Google, etc. Companies you have heard of. There's also low cost ETF funds (try Vanguard) where you pay around 0.5%/year or just a one time front-end charge of 6%.

There's a large cost to owning physical gold as the spread between the buying and selling price is astronomical. You need a 20% return just to break even because you pay over 110% of spot price to buy, and when you sell you only get 90%.

Stocks don't have a 20% spread. If a stock is worth 45, you won't pay 50 when you buy it. You won't get 40 when you sell it.

Stock funds are better than speculating in commodities markets. Nobody really truly understands gold prices.

[hockey216]

and i'm not knocking gold. I love (LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!) gold.

but from a long-term investment standpoint, I think stock funds are better.

[SBR_John]

and i'm not knocking gold. I love (LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!) gold.

but from a long-term investment standpoint, I think stock funds are better.

I always talk about a position of around 10% of one's overall portfolio.

It's not really fair to dice up the time frame and say gold was flat. Gold was $25 in 1960. It always goes up too over the long haul.

Keep in mind that if you buy 10% you are not really pulling for it to soar because if it does that means your paper investments are getting killed. It is a nice insurance hold. Long term the value of the dollar has no where to go but down. It's always gone down, for the past 50 years anyway.

[brooks85]

sob... couple finds 1400+ gold coins on their property

http://news.yahoo.com/calif-couple-strike-10-million-gold-coin-bonanza-183614916.html

[James D]

Sick article brooke. Gold still rallying, now 1340.

[hockey216]

I always talk about a position of around 10% of one's overall portfolio.

It's not really fair to dice up the time frame and say gold was flat. Gold was $25 in 1960. It always goes up too over the long haul.

Keep in mind that if you buy 10% you are not really pulling for it to soar because if it does that means your paper investments are getting killed. It is a nice insurance hold. Long term the value of the dollar has no where to go but down. It's always gone down, for the past 50 years anyway.

Gains from bullion gold have unfavorable taxation relative to a mutual fund: 28% taxation instead of 15%.

i'm comparing commodities to owning market as whole, not comparing commodities to currency. I'm comparing investment strategies.

yes, gold is a recession hedge. My point, though, is why do you want a lower return if there's a higher standard deviation?

investors could get a higher return with the same volatility. they could get the same return with lower volatility. Gold (as well as pretty much all individual assets) isn't an efficient investment in my opinion. This is the Capital Asset Pricing Model (idea that the efficient portfolio has 2 possible components: owning the market as a whole and the risk free rate). Super conservative can go all risk free rate. Super aggressive can go 100% in market (and leverage beyond that).

CAPM is also referred to as the mutual fund theorem.

even from a hedging standpoint if you're concerned about market risk... it's more efficient to buy an ETF (e.g. S&P500 mutual fund) and buy a put option or sell a future for hedging purposes. Taking lower returns with higher volatility doesn't make sense in my opinion.

i sketched it so you see what im talking about. The curved line is the efficient frontier.

But, hey, you're right that it's acceptable strategy if its only 10% of the portfolio. That's understandable Just don't go crazy putting 50% of your money in commodities. High risk.

[hockey216]

[hockey216]

[Albert Pujols]

I don't know a thing about gold, but silver has a ton of support at around $20. I don't think it's going lower than just below $20. I don't see any reason to not put all of your long term savings into it. Would you rather have a depreciating dollar earning .5% or a hard asset? I look at silver as real money. The dollar can only get weaker, as the gov't just does not respect its currency. As the dollar gets weaker, silver gets stronger.