Miggy or Trout: Who's your AL MVP?

[Mantle7]

If you had to pick either player, and both were 21, and they put up the same exact numbers...who would you pick?

Buddy, what's the deal with the "if"
they were 21. They don't base the MVP on "ifs".

[stevenash]

How does Cabrera have crappy hitters in front of him Jackson and infante?

I didn't call him out either, but Ajax is hardly crap on top

[BuddyBear]

Buddy, what's the deal with the "if"
they were 21. They don't base the MVP on "ifs".

I am trying to show you that if you had to choose between the 2, you would pick Trout. I am controlling for age. If you asked you who would you rather have for next year, you would pick Trout simply because he is 8 years younger than Cabrera. I am trying to remove that bias to show that if everything was equal (age included), Trout would be selected b/c he is the more complete player. And if both were 21 and you select Trout to start a franchise, then it stands to reason that he is more valuable. Naturally, you would not pick the less valuable player to start a team.

I know, it's hypothetical. But play along....

[nic9212]

Cabrera

[Ghenghis Kahn]

cabrera won't win the triple crown. only way he'll win is if hamilton keeps on sitting out.

[InTheDrink]

Enlighten me Einstein.
It means Trout is worth almost 11 wins more to the Angels in the line up compared to an average replacement player.

But thanks for dropping by.

how many times have they changed the WAR calculations JUST THIS YEAR?

you're probably too simple to understand that WAR is reverse engineered to measure players based on subjective observations

sorry but trout is definitely not having the 28th best year of all time

[stevenash]

sorry but trout is definitely not having the 28th best year of all time

Remember, Trout missed 20 + games in April, leads the league in runs scored with 118, Miggy is far behind in second at 102 and he has had been in 15 more games. Now factor in 27 homers from the lead off spot, league leading 46 steals.

When it's all said and done, Trout's numbers will be something like 30 homers, 85 RBI (from lead off) 125 runs scored, 50 stolen bases.330 BA, .400 OBA .950 OPS a gold glove and a silver slugger award.

After the Babe Ruth's, Mickey Mantle's, Ted Williams's and such, name 15 other single season's that were better.

Every category, from defense to offense Trout was stellar. Speed category, runs scored, home runs, defense, everything was beyond outstanding and if you know anything about baseball history, Trout's overall baseball season is absolutely top 30 of all time.

Now regarding WAR, I don't believe Sean Smith tinkered with his formula once this season, and there is in my opinion only one legit source when it comes to WAR, and that is Sean Smith.

Do you know who Sean Smith even is?

[Chimneyfish]

you're probably too simple to understand that WAR is reverse engineered to measure players based on subjective observations

I'd love to hear you explain this.

[You mad bro]

Question is retarded ... Of course cabby ...

Btw this thread is just a duplicate of another one

[You mad bro]

And its not often that someone wins the triple crown also .. But okay think its trout

[stevenash]

I'd love to hear you explain this.

He has no clue.

[TheDarkPassenger]

Most of you guys who think that Cabrera is the obvious choice do not have a clue about baseball. It's like talking to a 4 year old about baseball. The uncontroversial choice is Mike Trout. There is no comparison really. Trout's season trumps Cabrera's in every meaningful way. 3 days ago there was no debate, now there is a debate b/c Cabrera might win a fictitious triple crown made up of archaic statistics that no scout or GM uses to evaluate players...yet these same statistics are now the basis for handing out the MVP, lol. Here is some reading for the baseball mentally challenged:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mike-trout-miguel-cabrera-and-measuring-value/

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/9/19/3359084/a-quick-thought-on-the-al-mvp-debate?ref=fangraphs

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/9/19/33...mvp-mike-trout

Great post. Most here seem to be casual baseball fans.

[Brutus84]

So if Trout moved down in the order everyone assumes he would have 30 more RBI's. Would he have the same amount of runs and SB's? Cabrera is the Tigers.

[You mad bro]

So if Trout moved down in the order everyone assumes he would have 30 more RBI's. Would he have the same amount of runs and SB's? Cabrera is the Tigers.

No because the ppp in front of him suck anyway .... People have no clue about baseball

[stevenash]

And its not often that someone wins the triple crown also .. But okay think its trout

Ted Williams won the triple crown and not a MVP
What's your point?

[stevenash]

No because the ppp in front of him suck anyway .... People have no clue about baseball

You mad bro?
Trout would have the same stolen base numbers regardless where he hit in the order.

Do you know baseball?

[stevenash]

So if Trout moved down in the order everyone assumes he would have 30 more RBI's. Would he have the same amount of runs and SB's? Cabrera is the Tigers.

Miggy is protected in the order by Prince.
You can't pitch around Miggy to get to Prince.

[You mad bro]

You mad bro?
Trout would have the same stolen base numbers regardless where he hit in the order.

Do you know baseball?

Stolen bases wont win u an mvp moron ... Look at the talent ted williams had with him also btw ...

Trouts production numbers wouldnt be equal to miguels even if trout was in the 3 hole


u are a clown bro

[You mad bro]

Miggy is protected in the order by Prince.
You can't pitch around Miggy to get to Prince.

And he still had 30 an 100 before prince ..once again you are an idiot

[BuddyBear]

Stolen bases wont win u an mvp moron ... Look at the talent ted williams had with him also btw ...

Trouts production numbers wouldnt be equal to miguels even if trout was in the 3 hole


u are a clown bro

You are an idiot in every sense of the term.

[stevenash]

Stolen bases wont win u an mvp moron ... Look at the talent ted williams had with him also btw ...

Trouts production numbers wouldnt be equal to miguels even if trout was in the 3 hole


u are a clown bro

What does Miggy do better than Trout do besides hit homers and drive in runs?
They are both around .330 hitters, they are both around .400 OBA guys?
Trout is going to hit 30 homers from the lead off spot.

Put Trout third or fourth in the LA lineup he drives in 100 plus runs.

Cabrera has no speed, Cabrera has no glove, Trout has five tools, Miggy has three tools.

How are those clown shoes fitting?

[You mad bro]

Way to make another thread to try and get attention ..


You mad steve? I think so

[You mad bro]

What does Miggy do better than Trout do besides hit homers and drive in runs?
They are both around .330 hitters, they are both around .400 OBA guys?
Trout is going to hit 30 homers from the lead off spot.

Put Trout third or fourth in the LA lineup he drives in 100 plus runs.

Cabrera has no speed, Cabrera has no glove, Trout has five tools, Miggy has three tools.

How are those clown shoes fitting?

Has a higher average ... 15 more home runs ... 53 more rbis ..

40 less strike outs in 65 more at bats ... Miggy might have 3 tools but still a better producer than trout .. And if u put miggy at first where he belongs his glove is fine

U put miggy 4th in front of a 300 hitter like prince he will have 150 rbis a year on average ...


Ur clown shoes are cool bro gve me a pair

[You mad bro]

Lmaooo u r so mad nash hahahaah

[You mad bro]

You are an idiot in every sense of the term.

How ?? Since when do people care more about stolen bases and defensive for an mvp?

Pedroia was the last one maybe ?

Thats why they have gold glove awards an cy young awards so pitchers shouldnt be an mvp and just because u have a gold glove doesnt mean ur the best neither

If that were the case than ron guidry should have won an mvp the year he went like 26-3 with an under 2 era

These advanced stats are all bullshit

[You mad bro]

To many trout bandwagon fans just like harper when he hit his first home run .. You are all pathetic

[BuddyBear]

How ?? Since when do people care more about stolen bases and defensive for an mvp?

Pedroia was the last one maybe ?

Thats why they have gold glove awards an cy young awards so pitchers shouldnt be an mvp and just because u have a gold glove doesnt mean ur the best neither

If that were the case than ron guidry should have won an mvp the year he went like 26-3 with an under 2 era

These advanced stats are all bullshit

Umm okay. Most of what you say is total nonsense and you sound very amateurish. I assume you have never taken a stats course to even understand the nature of statistics. How to use them, how to interpret them, how to apply them, etc... And since we are on a betting forum, how do you think the big baseball betting syndicates are making their bets? Are they using the dinosaur statistics like BAA, HR, and RBIs to evaluate players and offenses?

[BuddyBear]

What does Miggy do better than Trout do besides hit homers and drive in runs?
They are both around .330 hitters, they are both around .400 OBA guys?
Trout is going to hit 30 homers from the lead off spot.

Put Trout third or fourth in the LA lineup he drives in 100 plus runs.

Cabrera has no speed, Cabrera has no glove, Trout has five tools, Miggy has three tools.

How are those clown shoes fitting?

I would even say he has 2 tools. If the 5 tools are: Hitting for average, power, speed, defense(i.e. glove), and throwing arm. Cabrera rates very very bad on defense and is a very poor base runner.

[You mad bro]

I would even say he has 2 tools. If the 5 tools are: Hitting for average, power, speed, defense(i.e. glove), and throwing arm. Cabrera rates very very bad on defense and is a very poor base runner.

He actually has a good arm ... His glove at 3rd is suspect but at first like isaid was fine ... If a guy hits 45 home runs and has 145 rbis with a 330 average .. He wouldnt get an mvp over a 325 hitter with 30 home runs and 95 rbis woth 45 steals? ...

Umm yeah id say the 45 hr guy deserver

[You mad bro]

Hop off the trout bandwagon already god damn

[Mantle7]

Listen... Sharps whoever help me out here. I have a 6 team parlay live and if the Nats hold on ill have 5 down. Game 6 starts @ 7:05. If the Nats game doesn't end by then and I hedge out I'm taking a huge risk. Its big. What do you do in a situation like this?
Btw Trout is the MVP.

[TheDarkPassenger]

He actually has a good arm ... His glove at 3rd is suspect but at first like isaid was fine ... If a guy hits 45 home runs and has 145 rbis with a 330 average .. He wouldnt get an mvp over a 325 hitter with 30 home runs and 95 rbis woth 45 steals? ...

Umm yeah id say the 45 hr guy deserver

Average and RBI. Are those the only two stats you know? wRC+ (RC = Runs Created, 100 being average) is park and league adjusted, has Trout at 173 and Cabrera at 170. Add in Trout's huge defensive value at a more premium position and it isn't that close.

[BuddyBear]

He actually has a good arm ... His glove at 3rd is suspect but at first like isaid was fine ... If a guy hits 45 home runs and has 145 rbis with a 330 average .. He wouldnt get an mvp over a 325 hitter with 30 home runs and 95 rbis woth 45 steals? ...

Umm yeah id say the 45 hr guy deserver

Sure. He would get MVP consideration. The writers rank the players (1-3 or 1-5, I forget). But when one player is CLEARLY better (or comparable) in almost every meaningful offensive statistics and is head and shoulders above in other meaningful aspects of the game like defense, speed, and base running....then the choice should be obvious.

You see, your problem is that you are caught up in the dinosaur statistics of baseball. Just to let you know bro, that ship has sailed long ago. Nobody uses those dino stats anymore other than very old baseball fans (e.g. 88 year old grandfather who listen to ball games on his transistor radio) and frankly people who are just very casual fan (e.g. 43 year old homemaker who goes to a few games a year with her husband, etc...). These days, it's all about the advanced stats for understanding the game and appreciating it in a way that was not palatable before. The dino stats were invented in the 19th century and became fixtures...and we know that some habits are just hard to break.

Personally, I am a little surprised that you still talk about dino stats in such a serious way.

[BuddyBear]

Listen... Sharps whoever help me out here. I have a 6 team parlay live and if the Nats hold on ill have 5 down. Game 6 starts @ 7:05. If the Nats game doesn't end by then and I hedge out I'm taking a huge risk. Its big. What do you do in a situation like this?
Btw Trout is the MVP.

Hedge on the other side. Use the SBR scalp calculator to assure yourself of a win either way.

http://www.sbrforum.com/betting-tools/arbitrage-calculator/

[broadway6]

guy is one home run away from the triple crown...the other had a great season, but his team is sitting home for the playoffs. If Miggy won the triple crown and not the mvp..... oh wait, no way in hell that would happen.