Game fixing

[Slate]

I have been reading that some of you think games are fixed, I need someone to explain to me the logic of this belief.

It seems to me that the ones who believe this are the ones who lose more then they win, and saying that some of the games are fixed would explain them losing.

I have thought about games being fixed, and I cannot come up with a logical way to really do this, there are too many people involved with a game, to many uncontrolable factors to fix a game.

Maybe a game here or there, but in general it would be impossible to fix alot of games as some people suggest

Lastly, if you do believe that games are fixed, why would you even think of betting unless you knew what the fix was.

[pacattack81]

I have been reading that some of you think games are fixed, I need someone to explain to me the logic of this belief.

It seems to me that the ones who believe this are the ones who lose more then they win, and saying that some of the games are fixed would explain them losing.

I have thought about games being fixed, and I cannot come up with a logical way to really do this, there are too many people involved with a game, to many uncontrolable factors to fix a game.

Maybe a game here or there, but in general it would be impossible to fix alot of games as some people suggest

Lastly, if you do believe that games are fixed, why would you even think of betting unless you knew what the fix was.

i think this is an interesting post...i'm not going to speculate whether games are fixed or not because i have no idea...i would hope they're not...i certainly think its fair to assume that games are fixed with the amount of money that can be gained by doing so...to flat out say that it doesn't happened would be ignoring the real world

[clonecat]

No one ever picks a game wrong, they lose because a game was fixed, the refs screwed them, a player didn't play to their potential, an opposing player had the game of their life or the coach was an idiot.

[solobass]

salient points indeed, and this is why i try to avoid the games with the most bets on the board. a lot of people want to notch their belt by being right on the biggest game of the day and get caught up in that.

[patsfan2727]

I agree that most of the time when people complain about a game being fixed, they are on the losing side. I can recall many games, however, where I thought, hey something is fishy here but I didn't complain b/c my bet was winning. if you think that NBA ref tim donaghy was the ONLY official who let corruption take over his life, you have way too much faith in human kind....

[Slate]

I just really have a hard time believing that games are fixed, like I said above some may be fixed but this has to be a minority by far.

You would have to think what would go into fixing a game.

1. Control a ref
2. Control a player
3. Control a coach

for a game to accually be fixed wouldnt you need to control all three, or all the players, or all the refs.
There are just to many variables to accually guarantee a fix of a game and guarantee is the key word. Some may be fixed but can you guarantee it

What if you had control of a player, he gets hurt, fix is off
what if you had control of a ref, there are other refs then to worry about
what if you had control of a coach, are his players in on it do they not want to win

Lastly I would think it would be easier to fix a game at a small school, then a prominent school where everyone is watching

[patsfan2727]

Slate, just think about it like this my man....pick a career, whether it is Politics, Law Enforcement, Hedge Fund Investors....and you begin to think....is there any job in America now that is NOT influenced by some level of corruption? I mean geez we just had a president in office for 8 years who set the bar for corruption across America. just go with the flow and hope you're on the right side of the fix!

[Big_Cheese]

Theres money in it

I think Memphis Threw all their games. They fell behind intentionally in their tourney games. They didnt intent for Miss to get so Hot... Then they couldnt get back to win the game in time. I think this has been going on for years at this University, Hince the poor FT%. Notice when they have to play comeback to win they Miraculous hit all their Freethrows.

[Slate]

Of course there is some level of corruption everywhere, but to what level.

And again why are any of us betting games if we think they are fixed, that would take are odds of winning from 50/50 to 0, because then we would have to decide what games are fixed and which ones arent.

This site would then be pointless, because we would all be picking the fix and not using statistics or handycapping to pick winners.

[patsfan2727]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most of us are betting these games because we are addicted to gambling. a few fixed games aren't going to stop a bad habit, just like losing your job, family, house and life doesn't stop coke addicts/alcoholics. the sooner you come to realize you're addicted, the more at peace you will be with gambling.

[Big_Cheese]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most of us are betting these games because we are addicted to gambling. a few fixed games aren't going to stop a bad habit, just like losing your job, family, house and life doesn't stop coke addicts/alcoholics. the sooner you come to realize you're addicted, the more at peace you will be with gambling.

Did someone say Coke ???

[G's pks]

Maybe you are not awake yet... Did they not just catch an nba ref fixing games recently??? It happens wake up!

How about in baseball heard they are looking into Paul La Duca's habits....

[JUSTWINBABY]

corruption in a unregulated Billion dollar industry?...nah...lol

[Slate]

Ok so there was a ref fixing games, do we know any specifics, how many he tried to fix and was successful, how many he tried to fix and wasnt successful. How did he do it?, by extra fouls, by making a player miss shots, this is way to vague just saying a ref fixed games. I am sure he tried and was successful sometimes, but to be really successful he needed help and alot of it. If he was able to accually fix 1% of games and guarantee their outcome, this percentage is small and in the long run meaningless.

I never debated that fixing doesnt go on, but it is such a small percentage that it really doesnt matter, and the gamblers who blame their loses on game fixing, are just giving excuses for losing

It is easy to say games are fixed, but no one here has givin any specifics on how and when and which games.

[JUSTWINBABY]

It is easy to say games are fixed, but no one here has givin any specifics on how and when and which games.

Posting That specific info is a sure way to get yourself whacked by Tony Two Fingers!!

[Milkman]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most of us are betting these games because we are addicted to gambling. a few fixed games aren't going to stop a bad habit, just like losing your job, family, house and life doesn't stop coke addicts/alcoholics. the sooner you come to realize you're addicted, the more at peace you will be with gambling.

Very well put. I am the Milkman and I have a gambling problem. Now let the games begin

[Killer Chihuahua]

Man if you think a broke college kid would not put a few grand in his pocket to make a few bad passes or missed shots, you really have some blinders on......I dont really think it happens in the tourney/big games but for a meaningless non conference regular season game, I would bet that it happens alot more than you would think... with that said I would gamble on the color of the next car coming down the street!!!

[Slate]

Man if you think a broke college kid would not put a few grand in his pocket to make a few bad passes or missed shots, you really have some blinders on......I dont really think it happens in the tourney/big games but for a meaningless non conference regular season game, I would bet that it happens alot more than you would think... with that said I would gamble on the color of the next car coming down the street!!!

Never said it doesnt happen.

[remmy358]

refs can easily control the over/under by the # of fouls they call - tahts what donaghy was doing

[The General]

I believe that people with much bigger interests than most of us do determine games ATS at times, esp basketball. In the past, others would really talk down to me about this and argue all day, but then when Tim Donohue was exposed it lessened that. I do think one would be naive to think that one guy was the only one involved in games being manipulated. Anyhow, it is up to each person to believe or not to believe. I respect everyone's opinion.

[PsychoQ]

Don't you think if games were fixed a 16 seed would beat a 1 seed once in a while?? Games are not fixed and if they were you would hear about it maybe nba but not college..

[remmy358]

i dont think any professional players would be involved in fixing games, it's too hard. but refs in professional games could do it (donaghy). in college, it's more likely with lower level D1 teams where the oddsmakers dont spend as much time capping and no one is really looking at. there's been a number of these stories come up.

[hanco21]

Happens all the time, very few get caught though. Wake up!!!

Just ask Headache Smith of Arizona St.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/1998/06/30/asu_shaving/

Top 10 Worst Sports Betting Scandals + 1 You Can’t Miss

Interested in Sports Betting? Here’s a look at the Top 10 Sports Betting Scandals of all time.

10) The Phoenix gambling ring
In 2006 Rick Tocchet, the Phoenix Coyotes assistant coach, was accused of financing a nationwide gambling ring. The guilty party were a collective of NHL players that bet on college and pro sports. However, they did not bet on hockey.
9) Hal Chase
Hal Chase was a batter for the NY Giants in 1919. During his fifteen year career which started off with the NY Highlanders it was alleged he threw games as well as bet on some of them. After unsuccessfully attempting to bribe a pitcher and an umpire he was officially banned from the game for life.
Eight) Boston College Football
Dan Henning, the coach of the BC football team in 1996 heard that some of his players may have bet against the team in their loss to Syracuse on October 26th. The score? 45-17. They better have bet against themselves. He contacted the officials and 13 players were suspended and six were banned indefinitely. Henning resigned after that disastrous season with a record of 16-19-1
7) The Tulane Job
In 1985, five Tulane players were accused of point shaving in two games. The most notable busted party was John Williams who was accused of raking in more than $8000 for games he shaved. While Williams was indicted, there was a mistrial and all charges were dropped. After the case he joined the Cleveland Cavaliers and played nine long seasons with the franchise.
6) Connie Hawkins
Guilty by association. Hawkins was an innocent victim of a point shaving case in 1961 while he was a freshman at Iowa. During the investigation, his name came up, but he was never sought out as the guilty party. More so, according to NCAA rules at the time, he was ineligible to even play since he was a freshman.
What did this mean for his future? He went undrafted for 3 years and then Commissioner Walter Kennedy banned him for entering the Draft again. It wasn’t until 1969 that Hawkins received a settlement from his lawsuit against the NBA that paid him $1 million and five year contract with the Suns worth $410,000.
Five) Hornung and Karras
Paul Hornung was the Packers running back and MVP in 1961. Alex Karras was the Lions All Pro defensive tackle. After fessing up to betting a few hundred dollars on NFL games they were suspended during the 1963 season by NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle. In 1964 during their return, Karras refused to call the coin toss stating, “I’m not permitted to gamble
4) Tim Donaghy
When Pete Rose was betting on the Reds, there was really nothing he could do to give them an edge. When a ref is betting on the games he is officiating, that is just downright nasty. Donaghy was a referee in the NBA from 1994 to 2007 and sentenced to 15 months in prison for making calls that would affect the point spread of the game.
3) The 1951 Point-Shaving Scandal
One of the biggest scandals in College Basketball history happened during 1947 to 1951. In this short time, 35 active and former college players were accused of fixing games and at least 86 known games were fixed. When the story broke, a handful of players were already in the NBA namely, Sherman White, Ralph Beard, and Alexa Groza. In 1991 New York Newsday listed the scandal as the worst in New York sports history.
2) Pete Rose
Even if you don’t know much about Baseball, you probably heard of Pete Rose. An excellent player, a respected manager of the Reds, and a man with a bad gambling habit. The man who it 4,256 hits in his career will never be entered into the Hall of Fame because he used to bet on Reds as he was managing them. At first he denied any allegations, but after receiving a $1 million advance on his book, he confessed to his habits during the 80’s. At least he never bet on the Reds to lose.
1) The Infamous Black Sox
Before the Roaring 20’s, the 1919 White Sox left a bitter taste in Baseball fans everywhere. When mobsters, money, and greed entered the picture a recipe for disaster surely ensued. Arnold Gandil the White Sox first baseman and seven of his teammates conspired to throw the World Series that year. When the scandal unraveled, eight players were banned from the MLB for life. The most famous of the involved party? Joe “Shoeless” Jackson. Oh, and the Reds won the Series.
Bonus
Remember the movie Goodfellas? Henry Hill, the man Ray Liotta played had a point shaving scheme during the late 70’s. He dealt with a Boston College player named Rick Kuhn. In about three months, Hill cashed in almost $100,000. When Hill entered the witness protection program he ratted on Kuhn which resulted in Kuhn receiving jail time.

[kroyrunner89]

memphis was not throwing their game against missouri... they were 1-2 against top 25 teams going into that game, missouri was 5-1. i think its safe to say missouri was the better team, or at least plays better basketball against better teams than memphis does. now moving on from that, i believe point shaving goes on, but i have a hard time believing the overall outcome of a game could be fixed. it would take a lot of fishy calls by refs to make that happen, and i'd like to believe coaches or players these days wouldn't throw a game, especially in playoffs or the tourney

[jjgold]

I have been reading that some of you think games are fixed, I need someone to explain to me the logic of this belief.

It seems to me that the ones who believe this are the ones who lose more then they win, and saying that some of the games are fixed would explain them losing.

I have thought about games being fixed, and I cannot come up with a logical way to really do this, there are too many people involved with a game, to many uncontrolable factors to fix a game.

Maybe a game here or there, but in general it would be impossible to fix alot of games as some people suggest

Lastly, if you do believe that games are fixed, why would you even think of betting unless you knew what the fix was.

Slater guys that say pro games are fixed are your stupidest fuks in the world, maybe once in a while a college game it might be fixed but that is about it. Ignorant and frustrated fans and bettors cry fix.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Have you guys ever watched a Duke game at home??? If you've never capped for that BS than your crazy. You call it home cooking, I call it fix when it happens ALL THE TIME.

If you don't think players, coaches, staff, ref's, etc. don't fix games, fights, races than your crazy. The best part of a fix is that it's not obvious to most. The NBA is one of the worst.

[chrisharvard01]

Does University of Toledo purposely miss foul shots?

Does Dana White fix fights?

Who knows...

[spongerat]

fixing a game isn't as hard as you make it sound slate. and it definately DOES happen, more often in college than pro. There are just too many poor college kids that willl shave points, and especially in the lesser known teams it is easy to get away with.

[Slate]

No doubt, there have been games that are fixed, and thru history we have heard of games being fixed, you would be naive to think different.

I just dont believe that there are alot of games that are fixed, and the percentage of games that are fixed are below 1% of all games.

I am just tired of people saying games are fixed when they lose or when a ref makes a questionable call, or when someone misses foul shots. Or when you have a backdoor cover.

I am sure that Vegas or bookies would rather have an honest game 99% of the time then not. They win regardless and dont have to fix games to make money.

If there are alot of fixed games, then we who bet on these games are idiots, knowing the games are fixed and we still bet with less then a 50/50 chance to win

[kroyrunner89]

i agree that out of all the sports NBA is probably one of the worst, i don't bet many NBA games but follow along with what teams win and lose ATS, and i've got to say the number of fishy things that i've seen is just insane. that isn't me being a sore loser because i can't say its affected me too much as far as betting goes, but i think the NBA refs are still absolutely untrustworthy and the NBA is casting a blind eye to the situation. Bill Simmons on espn is an NBA freak and he even writes that it seems like there are 20 fishy calls a game and that the NBA needs to do something about it.

As for NCAA, I think the only time you'll ever have a potential of a fix is with large spreads. I really don't think coaches or players would ever let themselves lose or come close to losing a game intentionally. however, when you have a large spread and players can turn it off the last few minutes without risking anything, is it really that hard to believe a player would accept a bribe to shave a few points? duke home games might be an example, i've never payed too close of attention but they're often large favorites i would imagine. there was an article i read a while back that analyzed teams ATS, and there was significant proof in the stats that there was point shaving going on in the larger spread games. i wish i could remember where i saw this, if i remember i'll post it for sure. but i agree with slate 100% that most of the time its just people whining about losing and trying to take the blame of a bad bet off themselves, if you think this crap is going on in the sweet 16 and beyond you must be out of your mind

[Killer Chihuahua]

Don't you think if games were fixed a 16 seed would beat a 1 seed once in a while?? Games are not fixed and if they were you would hear about it maybe nba but not college..

A 16 seed does not have to "win" the game against a 1 seed to be fixed.....All that needs to be done is make sure that 16 seed wins aginst the spread. Lose by 20 instead of 22 for example. Small little turnover here, missed shot their. Missed foul here, Ghost foul there.

[NardVa]

I just really have a hard time believing that games are fixed, like I said above some may be fixed but this has to be a minority by far.

You would have to think what would go into fixing a game.

1. Control a ref
2. Control a player
3. Control a coach

for a game to accually be fixed wouldnt you need to control all three, or all the players, or all the refs.
There are just to many variables to accually guarantee a fix of a game and guarantee is the key word. Some may be fixed but can you guarantee it

What if you had control of a player, he gets hurt, fix is off
what if you had control of a ref, there are other refs then to worry about
what if you had control of a coach, are his players in on it do they not want to win

Lastly I would think it would be easier to fix a game at a small school, then a prominent school where everyone is watching

Very hard to have everybody in on the fix but lets say you have a bench player on the take who is getting garbage time and his team has to win by 20 to cover but they're only up by 16 with 3 mins left. The player on the take may start jacking up 3's to get the cover instead of running the clock out.

[spongerat]

urban meyer style!

[chrisharvard01]

bump

[jjgold]

Sore losers cry fix all the time, it is the most misused and inaccurate term of all times on forums.