Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

Maybe my tv is too small

but I posted this in my thread

Did anybody see Jose stick out his left arm in the last few jumps on max field?

what was that? , first I thought he lost the whip



its race 10 at Churchill if you can view replay , or someone can share

the Matt winn


- side note irad goes to Cali , only gets one mount today and gets a foul!

Wow, Wow, Wow !

I love that stuff. THAT Lkid, was old school race riding at its finest.

Two passionate riders going at it through the lane. Damn !

Best race I've seen all year.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1264314177746882560

Here is the breakdown:

First off, Jose rides the horse left handed. For all those that have read this long and winding thread, you know that I have always wanted my riders over my years to ride that way. So when I see it, which is kind of rare, I love it. What I mean is, he starts off with the stick in his LEFT hand, not his right like so many riders do. But by 5 seconds on the video, he has used his left hand often enough that the horse is starting to drift out from it, so, time to switch sticks, which he does. And when he uses the right hand, at 7 seconds, the horse reacts by moving inward a full path on the first strike. Meanwhile, Paco is IMO, aiming his horse outward to make sure his horse sees the outside horse who he sees coming. And while I will not "accuse" Paco of doing that for any other reason, He IMO probably did, and quite frankly, I would have been fine with that if I was the trainer of Paco's mount. If you stop the film at 7 seconds, it is clear that Paco's right hand is centered over the horse and the horse is aimed towards the camera. Again, I'm all good with all of this. Yes, he waa going to work left handed and his horse was shying outward a bit from it, But Paco was fine with that, as well as he should have been.

It is old scholl hard ball. It's Bob Gibson after someone hit a double off him. It's Randy Johnson pitching inside to a left handed batter taking too much plate, and it's Mahorn and Ruland taking the paint away from Dr. J.

So at 9 and 10 seconds, watch Jose try and get his horse outward again as much as he can without taking momentum away, all for the opportunity to go right handed one more time. Jose has only used the right hand once and feels, and no doubt he is right, that he needs to use the right hand one more time to keep his momentum . So he does, knowing full well his horse will go inward again, but he is totally prepared for it.


And that's what he does. He goes right handed at 12 seconds and immediately grabs his horse before he can drift in to brush Paco and works to switch back left handed for one more use of the stick if needed.


At 14 seconds you can clearly see the right rein as tight as can be trying to get enough room to use the left hand once more if needed, while Paco is trying to take the right hand out of play by taking away Jose's space. Freeze it at 16 seconds and Jose wants to go left handed but doesn't have enough room yet. But by 17 seconds his horse has gained the lead by I guess a head but it was a quick head so I think Jose is starting to realize that, I got this. By 18 he is a solid neck plus in front and waves bye bye , stick in hand. That is what you saw Kid. ( Two tough, game, and talented riders playing hard ball. Nothing dirty about any of that IMO). At 19 he double checks the side he stopped paying attention to, his right side, by looking under his right elbow, just to make sure and at 20 he is gearing down.

THAT, is race riding. THAT is passion. And THAT, is who I'll be rooting for down the road.


On a side note, this down time and staying at home a lot has allowed me to watch Irad and Jose ride. Both of these guys ride , as I call it, left handed all the time. Maybe they are naturally left handed, I will assume so. But whoever taught these two the importance of riding the way they do, was probably left handed as well.

We know that a very good right handed pitcher would have been a great left handed pitcher. And a great right handed pitcher would have been a hall of fame left handed pitcher. Well, it has always been my opinion that the same hold true for jockey's. It makes them different, it makes their mounts react differently in a positive way.

I have not seen THAT many races as to know the entire jockey colony in the USA but for my money, these two are awfully hard to top. Maybe someone is better but but they better be bound for the Hall because these two ARE bound for the hall and they are both GREAT.

Thanks for the post Lkid.


Would not have seen that race without a heads up. Was working all day yesterday.

It was fun to watch and analyze. Hope it helps some see the race inside the race.

Here is a picture of Jose while pulling up just after the race.

https://www.paulickreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Maxfield_2020-Matt-Winn-S-684x547.jpg

Passion. I love it !

[Louisvillekid1]

Wow, Wow, Wow !

I love that stuff. THAT Lkid, was old school race riding at its finest.

Two passionate riders going at it through the lane. Damn !

Best race I've seen all year.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1264314177746882560

Here is the breakdown:

First off, Jose rides the horse left handed. For all those that have read this long and winding thread, you know that I have always wanted my riders over my years to ride that way. So when I see it, which is kind of rare, I love it. What I mean is, he starts off with the stick in his LEFT hand, not his right like so many riders do. But by 5 seconds on the video, he has used his left hand often enough that the horse is starting to drift out from it, so, time to switch sticks, which he does. And when he uses the right hand, at 7 seconds, the horse reacts by moving inward a full path on the first strike. Meanwhile, Paco is IMO, aiming his horse outward to make sure his horse sees the outside horse who he sees coming. And while I will not "accuse" Paco of doing that for any other reason, He IMO probably did, and quite frankly, I would have been fine with that if I was the trainer of Paco's mount. If you stop the film at 7 seconds, it is clear that Paco's right hand is centered over the horse and the horse is aimed towards the camera. Again, I'm all good with all of this. Yes, he waa going to work left handed and his horse was shying outward a bit from it, But Paco was fine with that, as well as he should have been.

It is old scholl hard ball. It's Bob Gibson after someone hit a double off him. It's Randy Johnson pitching inside to a left handed batter taking too much plate, and it's Mahorn and Ruland taking the paint away from Dr. J.

So at 9 and 10 seconds, watch Jose try and get his horse outward again as much as he can without taking momentum away, all for the opportunity to go right handed one more time. Jose has only used the right hand once and feels, and no doubt he is right, that he needs to use the right hand one more time to keep his momentum . So he does, knowing full well his horse will go inward again, but he is totally prepared for it.


And that's what he does. He goes right handed at 12 seconds and immediately grabs his horse before he can drift in to brush Paco and works to switch back left handed for one more use of the stick if needed.


At 14 seconds you can clearly see the right rein as tight as can be trying to get enough room to use the left hand once more if needed, while Paco is trying to take the right hand out of play by taking away Jose's space. Freeze it at 16 seconds and Jose wants to go left handed but doesn't have enough room yet. But by 17 seconds his horse has gained the lead by I guess a head but it was a quick head so I think Jose is starting to realize that, I got this. By 18 he is a solid neck plus in front and waves bye bye , stick in hand. That is what you saw Kid. ( Two tough, game, and talented riders playing hard ball. Nothing dirty about any of that IMO). At 19 he double checks the side he stopped paying attention to, his right side, by looking under his right elbow, just to make sure and at 20 he is gearing down.

THAT, is race riding. THAT is passion. And THAT, is who I'll be rooting for down the road.


On a side note, this down time and staying at home a lot has allowed me to watch Irad and Jose ride. Both of these guys ride , as I call it, left handed all the time. Maybe they are naturally left handed, I will assume so. But whoever taught these two the importance of riding the way they do, was probably left handed as well.

We know that a very good right handed pitcher would have been a great left handed pitcher. And a great right handed pitcher would have been a hall of fame left handed pitcher. Well, it has always been my opinion that the same hold true for jockey's. It makes them different, it makes their mounts react differently in a positive way.

I have not seen THAT many races as to know the entire jockey colony in the USA but for my money, these two are awfully hard to top. Maybe someone is better but but they better be bound for the Hall because these two ARE bound for the hall and they are both GREAT.

Thanks for the post Lkid.


Would not have seen that race without a heads up. Was working all day yesterday.

It was fun to watch and analyze. Hope it helps some see the race inside the race.

Here is a picture of Jose while pulling up just after the race.

https://www.paulickreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Maxfield_2020-Matt-Winn-S-684x547.jpg

Passion. I love it !

Str,

I have no words

you just taught me so much

sir, just allow me to bow down To you

I have no words to say

irad went to Cali and got suspended on first day

I told jelly in my thread that’s every day in NY

The jockey colonies are gonna be different this year

but can’t for Saratoga to bring it all together

I just think it’s excellent riding

the strange thing is these guys seem so lighthearted as people

on another side note i was wrong about nik Juarez

he was hurt and is riding solid again

my bad , but knew something was off

- I came in here to ask you something , but im so blown away by that response , it’s the POTY

hope to go the track with you one day

cheers


- not to mention the perfect diamond reference

[Louisvillekid1]

Another excellent run in Japan oaks

if you didn’t see

https://youtu.be/PuDWmaUdRWE

[Louisvillekid1]

I’m sure heard about baffert

the database simply lacks all the drugs these guys use

it’s growing now after the precedents

but knowing your gonna fail, tells me they been doing it for years

no need to respond here , it’ll all come out in later years.

[str]

I’m sure heard about baffert

the database simply lacks all the drugs these guys use

it’s growing now after the precedents

but knowing your gonna fail, tells me they been doing it for years

no need to respond here , it’ll all come out in later years.

My level of disgust because it was Lidocaine is off the charts. That's some heavy duty stuff.

And that is because it's personal to me. The integrity, respect and the way you play the game always has been.

I'm pissed and I'm glad it leaked.

Was it fair to leak? No.

But was it right to withhold information about Justify prior to the Triple Crown? No.

You reap what you sow Kid and quite frankly, I'm sick of the double standard.

Let's see what happens with the split sample.

On a lighter note, glad you were able to watch the replay and see the game within the game. Very cool stuff .

[JBEX]

Yes, I have known them well for many years.

It has been a family affair for decades.

Over the years they have hung their hat on babies, and speedy sprinters and done very well for themselves.

That is their strong suit. I assume today's horse at the Spa is a sprinter with speed?

hey str..I had asked you close to 3 years ago if you knew john salzman(know there's jr and sr) and this was your response..reason I bring it up is he has a 2yo first time starter going on weds at bel that looks on paper like no way he belongs..guess he must like him to ship up for this very tough spot ?

[str]

hey str..I had asked you close to 3 years ago if you knew john salzman(know there's jr and sr) and this was your response..reason I bring it up is he has a 2yo first time starter going on weds at bel that looks on paper like no way he belongs..guess he must like him to ship up for this very tough spot ?

On paper that race does look like a hornets nest doesn't it?

I saw that John jr. is only 3% with firsters . I never would have thought that. When their dad was training babies, he won with much more frequency than that. But back then my quote was accurate. Have to think it still is as to how the family goes about the business. If they go ahead and run, I would expect the horse to be a speed ball. That is usually the case.
They have named a fine gate/speed rider and I don't think that was an accident. (I know riders hate that but it is a compliment, and IMO, spot on).

One other thing. They buy very inexpensive horses often. I mean like 5-10K babies . And for the price, they get solid early results. And if an offer is made, they will sell. Maybe that's the deal here. They are very good at it and it is a solid business approach. And in this case, as in most, if the horse is better than paper shows, the money will show.

On paper alone, the horse should be the longest shot on the board. Something tells me it won't be.

Please keep me posted if the result gets by me.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

On paper that race does look like a hornets nest doesn't it?

I saw that John jr. is only 3% with firsters . I never would have thought that. When their dad was training babies, he won with much more frequency than that. But back then my quote was accurate. Have to think it still is as to how the family goes about the business. If they go ahead and run, I would expect the horse to be a speed ball. That is usually the case.
They have named a fine gate/speed rider and I don't think that was an accident. (I know riders hate that but it is a compliment, and IMO, spot on).

One other thing. They buy very inexpensive horses often. I mean like 5-10K babies . And for the price, they get solid early results. And if an offer is made, they will sell. Maybe that's the deal here. They are very good at it and it is a solid business approach. And in this case, as in most, if the horse is better than paper shows, the money will show.

On paper alone, the horse should be the longest shot on the board. Something tells me it won't be.

Please keep me posted if the result gets by me.

Thanks JBEX.

no problem

yes surprised his % is that low even with the understanding it was his father's thing..still have to think to go through all the trouble and it being a family thing he must think something of him..guess even a 4th place finish including jockey and trainer compensation pays for the shipping..obviously he's hoping for better but there's a bit of a safety net there.. that's not a good thing for the punter though..yes agree like to see him take some early money and will probably drift up..let you know how it goes..thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str

just thought you might be interested lacey has one in R5 at lrl..she's definitely a bad turf trainer by the numbers (having a terrific year though) but this one is dropping,has a race as a 2yo that fits well with this field (lone turf attempt)..considering the pedigree dropping to $25k makes sense to me..maryland homebred out of a two punch mare (believe that was a maryland stallion?)..workouts sharp..important also doesn't have to be up sale and qualifies for the waiver

[str]

hey str

just thought you might be interested lacey has one in R5 at lrl..she's definitely a bad turf trainer by the numbers (having a terrific year though) but this one is dropping,has a race as a 2yo that fits well with this field (lone turf attempt)..considering the pedigree dropping to $25k makes sense to me..maryland homebred out of a two punch mare (believe that was a maryland stallion?)..workouts sharp..important also doesn't have to be up sale and qualifies for the waiver

Kind of makes sense that her numbers would be less on the turf. Lifelong Bowie trainers, ( even though Bowie is now closed, I'm talking about who you learned your trade from and how you learned it), were for the most part, not trainers that would necessarily do well on turf.

Why? Because Bowie did not have a turf course. So, they worked with what they had, which was 3 forms of dirt tracks. Two the public never could see but were there. An indoor 1/8th mile ring and a track in the woods which was great for babies and nervous horses.

Owners with turf only horses did not go out of their way to send those horses to Bowie trainers. Yes, a few did but mostly they were sent to trainers with access to turf courses.
Saw the horse ran well. Finished 2nd.
Yes, Two Punch was a Md. stallion and a very good one. Very good broodmare sire.

Oh, that waiver rule. Never had that when I was there. What a gift for someone wanting to become eligible for starters. ( I guess you can become eligible using the waiver ??). Anyway, I guess it makes it easier to give horses time, which must be the purpose, so if it's that, I guess it's a good thing.
Let's see if she runs back for a tag or goes to MSW. Homebreds don't get jammed in very often in Md. At least they never used to.
Thanks for the heads up JBEX.

[JBEX]

no problem str..so was bowie part of the Maryland circuit back then..like when bowie ran laurel or pimlico didn't? or more like what finger lakes was to nyra tracks..i'm guessing the former

[str]

no problem str..so was bowie part of the Maryland circuit back then..like when bowie ran laurel or pimlico didn't? or more like what finger lakes was to nyra tracks..i'm guessing the former

Yes. Bowie raced more days than Pimlico and Laurel did back then. They ran the winter meet from January 1st until about March 15th every year and a summer meet that went up against Delaware Park rom about June 1st through the ladder part of July. Pimlico was spring only and Laurel was fall only. Bowie was the only game in the region in January . Charlestown used to open early February on a shortened week until March. Penn Nat. did not exist yet, and when it did, it was a shorter week as well if I recall and of course, much cheaper horses. Just slightly better typically than CT was.
The three tracks were the Md. circuit other than the Timonium meet which was basically late July through Labor Day. The cheaper horses and speed balls ran at the Big T and the others shipped to Delaware in August or took the month off.

[Louisvillekid1]

My level of disgust because it was Lidocaine is off the charts. That's some heavy duty stuff.

And that is because it's personal to me. The integrity, respect and the way you play the game always has been.

I'm pissed and I'm glad it leaked.

Was it fair to leak? No.

But was it right to withhold information about Justify prior to the Triple Crown? No.

You reap what you sow Kid and quite frankly, I'm sick of the double standard.

Let's see what happens with the split sample.

On a lighter note, glad you were able to watch the replay and see the game within the game. Very cool stuff .

He has to be suspended then right?

I mean I heard his team is trying to argue that lidocaine has a role in equine For certain conditions

just disgusted with it all

Lol for Maximum security to go from one cheater to another


one thing positive coming out of all this , I think they have to really step up the testing

[str]

He has to be suspended then right?

I mean I heard his team is trying to argue that lidocaine has a role in equine For certain conditions

just disgusted with it all

Lol for Maximum security to go from one cheater to another


one thing positive coming out of all this , I think they have to really step up the testing

Q. He has to be suspended then right?

A. Well most trainers would lose the purse and get the amount of days spelled out in the rules. Typically 15 but it varies with class of drug. This drug is a class 2 violation I'm pretty sure which surprises me but that is probably because small traces of lidocaine are in many products, some over the counter. It really should depend on what it was in, how it was administered, why the horse had it in him and all the circumstances surrounding the positive. Not all positives are created equal. It would be best for racing, especially in this high profile case if the simple truth came out so everyone could understand it for what it is. Buuut...after the last fiasco about " such a small amount of picograms" which was total bullshit, I won't hold my breath.



Q. I mean I heard his team is trying to argue that lidocaine has a role in equine For certain conditions

A. It does. Post operative pain mainly. Dire circumstances when running is not what is thought of but immediate comfort for a horse post op or in dire pain. At that point, running is not on the radar.

Q. just disgusted with it all

A. It's a great game Lkid. And the GAME is on the level. It's some of the people in it that aren't as we have recently witnessed.

Q.Lol for Maximum security to go from one cheater to another


A. Well, the split still has to come back and he has to have his day in front of the commision before we know the origin of the substance, although I just cannot be overly optimistic that we will REALLY know as I assume the lawyer speak will cloud right from wrong to its highest capacity instead of just honestly understanding how it got into the horses system. The old groom peed in the stall or had just come back from the dentist, spit in the hay and the horse ate it trick probably is hopefully not on the menu.
I also don't know why it takes a month for the original sample to be tested. It took 48 hours in my day, and 1 week for the split to ship to Cornell U. for a second test. Oh the drama.

Q. one thing positive coming out of all this , I think they have to really step up the testing

A. Yes ! Slowly but surely it changes for the better. At least that is what they keep telling us.


Great to see Belmont open again as well as other tracks.

Good luck to you and everyone else who plays.

[str]

On paper that race does look like a hornets nest doesn't it?

I saw that John jr. is only 3% with firsters . I never would have thought that. When their dad was training babies, he won with much more frequency than that. But back then my quote was accurate. Have to think it still is as to how the family goes about the business. If they go ahead and run, I would expect the horse to be a speed ball. That is usually the case.
They have named a fine gate/speed rider and I don't think that was an accident. (I know riders hate that but it is a compliment, and IMO, spot on).

One other thing. They buy very inexpensive horses often. I mean like 5-10K babies . And for the price, they get solid early results. And if an offer is made, they will sell. Maybe that's the deal here. They are very good at it and it is a solid business approach. And in this case, as in most, if the horse is better than paper shows, the money will show.

On paper alone, the horse should be the longest shot on the board. Something tells me it won't be.

Please keep me posted if the result gets by me.

Thanks JBEX.

Saw the horse scratched. Thought that might happen. That's why I said what I highlighted.

[JBEX]

Saw the horse scratched. Thought that might happen. That's why I said what I highlighted.

yeah not surprised at all..I even based my play in the race if he did run on a 4th place finish in the super..probably a good horse to watch for when (if ) he debuts in maryland..they only paid $7k so could even be vs claimers..guessing this is the time of year when you'll start to see mcl's for 2yo's popping up every once in a while ..hell I guess if he was considering that race would lead me to believe he'd try specials in maryland for the debut..thanks for the response on the old maryland circuit also str

[Louisvillekid1]

Im so sadden

if that’s if even a word

thank you for you response as always

these horses aren’t lifting a hoof outta those barns

and while I’m on the right side of handicapping it

it’s no worse than the treatment going around the world right now

idk, bottom line those guys should rot in hell

[JBEX]

hey str

tony dutrow has one in the last at belmont that looks pretty good..have to beat a chad debuter but that gets you a price

[Louisvillekid1]

Sir, did you see the 9th at Belmont?

someone post a link if not

cost me prob 6-10k

love irad but the herding is getting played out

I get this specific situation was one of the least and im clearly biased

but cmon , he went 6-2 paths purposely hitting right handed , while his brother was on the 1 almost jumper rail

im pissed off for the weekend I had being all over the card without results

so I need your unbiased opinion

they looked for a solid 4/5 minutes too

[Louisvillekid1]

hey str

tony dutrow has one in the last at belmont that looks pretty good..have to beat a chad debuter but that gets you a price

AD’s horse had no chance with the ward or the 4 getting the lead ,

ward has his barn so tuned up , they are showing extremely one way horses, just run as fast as you can , zero improvement, that was a 3 year off the bench since last year running again 21 fractions

he is going to lose all his 2 year old credibility chasing royal ascot if this continues

[Louisvillekid1]

I’ve calmed down

and I understand this decision

it’s the hundreds of times done before all across the world

even did it in Dubai

plus my ticket that makes me frustrated

plus having vino rosso on huge bet , last year coming down

[str]

Im so sadden

if that’s if even a word

thank you for you response as always

these horses aren’t lifting a hoof outta those barns

and while I’m on the right side of handicapping it

it’s no worse than the treatment going around the world right now

idk, bottom line those guys should rot in hell

The sadness you speak of reminds me of what I felt back when all this started.

It was real tough.

I'm sorry Kid.

I wish it wasn't that way.

Yes, it's a tiny fraction of trainers, but that didn't and still doesn't help me one bit.

I agree with all you say.

[str]

hey str

tony dutrow has one in the last at belmont that looks pretty good..have to beat a chad debuter but that gets you a price

Thanks for the heads up.

Saw the replay. Actually did run very well. Tough race set up. I always hated two horses running off and screwing up the pace and flow. Unless of course I had a closer. If so, I felt like the cat with the canary feather hanging out of it's mouth. Lol.
That horse is certainly worth a second chance .

[str]

AD’s horse had no chance with the ward or the 4 getting the lead ,

ward has his barn so tuned up , they are showing extremely one way horses, just run as fast as you can , zero improvement, that was a 3 year off the bench since last year running again 21 fractions

he is going to lose all his 2 year old credibility chasing royal ascot if this continues

He lives by that sword, that is for sure. They all run the same way.

[str]

Sir, did you see the 9th at Belmont?

someone post a link if not

cost me prob 6-10k

love irad but the herding is getting played out

I get this specific situation was one of the least and im clearly biased

but cmon , he went 6-2 paths purposely hitting right handed , while his brother was on the 1 almost jumper rail

im pissed off for the weekend I had being all over the card without results

so I need your unbiased opinion

they looked for a solid 4/5 minutes too

I did see the replay but cannot get a link to work. I will be happy to freeze frame this race to show you what I saw but need some help getting the replay on my thread.

That said, here is what I saw. I will pick it up as they begin to turn for home.

Irad's horse wanted to drift in but was very controllable. The horse inside of him also wanted to drift in. When those two started running by horses they had tons of room inside of them. So you have Irad outside, Gutierrez inside of him and Jose Ortiz way inside. Gutierrez lets his horse drift as they drive and Irad is happy to drift in with him but what I see is that Gutierrez makes that choice, NOT Irad. So they both duel and continue to drift. As they approach the wire head and head, they have come within a path of the inside and that is where Jose Ortiz is trying to rally. Jose DID, IMO have his chance but his horse was just not quite good enough to get all the way up in there. With 5 and 4 jumps to the wire, he actually loses about a head of position putting him about a long neck or a short half behind. He is not going to get to those two. But the two outside horses are still dueling back and forth and Irad has a small head on Gutierrez. The last 2-3 jumps they do come over and Jose pulls out of the hole. He was not going to win. And I know that is frustrating as hell. But, he was not. I do see Irad slightly bump Gutierrez about a jump or two before the wire . That made pinching Jose look even worse but the outcome was right there. That bump did nothing to change what was about to happen. Irad wins it, Gutierrez 2nd and Jose 3rd.

Boy I sure do know on a big play or with a lot riding, races and tough beats like that really friggin hurt. But from all that I saw, the outcome came as it should. Yes, earlier at the 5/16ths pole, Jose was forced to stop momentum and wait. The one hole killed him. And you see that at top tracks where the riders are so good they can ride that tight and not kill one another. That hole opens up 10 times out of 10 in Maryland and quite frankly anywhere except Belmont and maybe, yep maybe Santa Anita. They have a nice jockey colony in Calif. but it pales in comparison to Belmonts. There is little doubt that Belmont has the finest collective group of riders in America. For me, I don't think it's close.

Sorry you lost you play Kid. That sucks. But you were right there. And while the payoff does not happen, take what that sequence offers you. That being the confidence to stay with what got you there in that race on Sunday. You were all over that play. It didn't work out. Take that and have the confidence and forsight to make it work out next time. I have no doubt you will.

Turn a negative into a positive. Be that much more focused and determined. It's the only productive thing you can do with a situation like that. Turn it into lemonade Kid and come back ready to kick some ass next week.

Hope that helps.

[JBEX]

hey str


kathleen o'connell has a fts in R2 @ gulfstream (2yo @ 4.5f)..she's very good with maidens, debuters
and I like the pedigree on this one top and bottom..zayas and her a very good combo.. two of the last 3 works are 5f.. does that signify anything to you considering it's a 4.5f race? #5 casalsa (7-2).. another interesting thing is the stable name is ca sal stables.. must like the horse to name it after the stable

[Louisvillekid1]

I did see the replay but cannot get a link to work. I will be happy to freeze frame this race to show you what I saw but need some help getting the replay on my thread.

That said, here is what I saw. I will pick it up as they begin to turn for home.

Irad's horse wanted to drift in but was very controllable. The horse inside of him also wanted to drift in. When those two started running by horses they had tons of room inside of them. So you have Irad outside, Gutierrez inside of him and Jose Ortiz way inside. Gutierrez lets his horse drift as they drive and Irad is happy to drift in with him but what I see is that Gutierrez makes that choice, NOT Irad. So they both duel and continue to drift. As they approach the wire head and head, they have come within a path of the inside and that is where Jose Ortiz is trying to rally. Jose DID, IMO have his chance but his horse was just not quite good enough to get all the way up in there. With 5 and 4 jumps to the wire, he actually loses about a head of position putting him about a long neck or a short half behind. He is not going to get to those two. But the two outside horses are still dueling back and forth and Irad has a small head on Gutierrez. The last 2-3 jumps they do come over and Jose pulls out of the hole. He was not going to win. And I know that is frustrating as hell. But, he was not. I do see Irad slightly bump Gutierrez about a jump or two before the wire . That made pinching Jose look even worse but the outcome was right there. That bump did nothing to change what was about to happen. Irad wins it, Gutierrez 2nd and Jose 3rd.

Boy I sure do know on a big play or with a lot riding, races and tough beats like that really friggin hurt. But from all that I saw, the outcome came as it should. Yes, earlier at the 5/16ths pole, Jose was forced to stop momentum and wait. The one hole killed him. And you see that at top tracks where the riders are so good they can ride that tight and not kill one another. That hole opens up 10 times out of 10 in Maryland and quite frankly anywhere except Belmont and maybe, yep maybe Santa Anita. They have a nice jockey colony in Calif. but it pales in comparison to Belmonts. There is little doubt that Belmont has the finest collective group of riders in America. For me, I don't think it's close.

Sorry you lost you play Kid. That sucks. But you were right there. And while the payoff does not happen, take what that sequence offers you. That being the confidence to stay with what got you there in that race on Sunday. You were all over that play. It didn't work out. Take that and have the confidence and forsight to make it work out next time. I have no doubt you will.

Turn a negative into a positive. Be that much more focused and determined. It's the only productive thing you can do with a situation like that. Turn it into lemonade Kid and come back ready to kick some ass next week.

Hope that helps.

Ty , I hinted I didn’t agree as saying it’s the least of it

and was biased

ty

[Louisvillekid1]

hey str


kathleen o'connell has a fts in R2 @ gulfstream (2yo @ 4.5f)..she's very good with maidens, debuters
and I like the pedigree on this one top and bottom..zayas and her a very good combo.. two of the last 3 works are 5f.. does that signify anything to you considering it's a 4.5f race? #5 casalsa (7-2).. another interesting thing is the stable name is ca sal stables.. must like the horse to name it after the stable

I’ve been told by Kathy assistant

that she doesn’t like how the Ortiz bro’s , don’t listen to directions

not sure what that means

I say owners own , trainers train , jocks ride

[Louisvillekid1]

Untitled is running in 6 furlong stakes after injury r7 @ woodbine

[JBEX]

I’ve been told by Kathy assistant

that she doesn’t like how the Ortiz bro’s , don’t listen to directions

not sure what that means

I say owners own , trainers train , jocks ride

probably along the lines that if they're not riding for an elite or above average trainer they do what they want.. you're lucky I'm riding for you.. I'll do what I feel is best

[str]

Ty , I hinted I didn’t agree as saying it’s the least of it

and was biased

ty

I did see that Kid.

From the previous breakdowns of film we have seen, Irad is simply the Cordaro of today. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, you know I admire it, but when it happens against you, it can really piss you off. When it happens for you, a rye smile creeps in.
Either way, you have to give the guy credit for having an incredible talent that most are just not born with.
Thanks Kid. Good luck today.

[str]

hey str


kathleen o'connell has a fts in R2 @ gulfstream (2yo @ 4.5f)..she's very good with maidens, debuters
and I like the pedigree on this one top and bottom..zayas and her a very good combo.. two of the last 3 works are 5f.. does that signify anything to you considering it's a 4.5f race? #5 casalsa (7-2).. another interesting thing is the stable name is ca sal stables.. must like the horse to name it after the stable

It might just be her style. I think you will have to monitor that for what she does with other babies in the near future. Once the book goes to 5/8ths which usually would have happened by now, it's kind of a moot point. And, if that typically would have happened by now maybe she was assuming that would be the case.

I remember Benny Perkins Sr. who was great with fast firsters, would rarely work the horse as far as the race for a baby. They were fast, fit and kept running almost every time.
Keep an eye on her and let's see if that indeed is the fact in the next week or so.

As far as signaling anything, typically it would tend to dull the horses speed mainly because the trainer is most likely trying to get the horse to relax. Take the sharp edge off or that sort of thing. But I think you have to see the overall pattern to be sure. Very good chance the horse was in company with other firsters so there should be others that show the same thing. Once they have run once, the normal thing is to take them out of company , at least for the next work or two so they can relax and get the feel of the riders commands with their hands and noises. Not all trainers though. Some breeze in company always. Just have to know whose who when it comes to that.
Hope that helps.

[JBEX]

the part about possibly trying to dull the horses speed makes sense but if that's what she was trying to do it didn't work lol.. went out and pressed a 21:3 first quarter.. as you know at 4.5f that's a lot of turn involved.. held well and battled back last eighth to lose by <2 lengths.. announcer commented on what a good effort it was.. guess maybe the long works helped her fight back towards the end.. an excellent follow-up and goi g to mention to harthebar.. thanks str

[Louisvillekid1]

I’m now on an irad kick in a way

he claimed foul today that was bogus and so glad they staying consistent since back up

today was way worse and than the other and he was on oppo end

but now I’m getting concerned more than ever about the horses

That was r8 Bel

but I wanna know about r7 Bel

to me, I’m seeing a horse that’s not responding , all the to the point, that he said forget this, don’t whip me again

and irad starting to get bad urging without response

I’m getting worried

Being ignorant on the owners / trainers Game

I was mad he kept hitting when was still gonna be 2nd

I’m predicting an irad blowup in next few years

-side note his brother just hit 2k wins , 26... why does HOF require less fir jocks than trainers is also kinda dumb

but I digress

thank you in advance

- love

[Louisvillekid1]

probably along the lines that if they're not riding for an elite or above average trainer they do what they want.. you're lucky I'm riding for you.. I'll do what I feel is best

She can surprise here and there , but everything I’ve heard , from my buddy

I just don’t know

I’m learning so much inside , from 2nd / 3rd / 4th hand convos

its whisper down the line in kindergarten

- I’m scared it’s even uglier than just servis and Navarro

however optimistic

ask STR

his buddies got caught Time and time again , and now framed ???

wtf man