Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

Army Mule.... Race 4 number 4 at Oaklawn "Ceepeegee" 10-1. I haven't looked at the race yet.

thanks batt.. been in a lot of crazy spots throughout his career and I think he's well meant and capable at this level


post @ 3:11

Nice to see this horse get the class relief it needs.
I think the horse fits with these.
I think he is worth solid consideration .

on the lead while facing serious pace pressure from the 1/4 to well past the 3/8th ..held together pretty well to finish 2nd by 1.5 lengths ..good chance to win at or around this level next out

[batt33]

on the lead while facing serious pace pressure from the 1/4 to well past the 3/8th ..held together pretty well to finish 2nd by 1.5 lengths ..good chance to win at or around this level next out

Missed the race completely ... dealing with other stuff.... on a side note how do you add multiple quotes to a response?

[Easy-Rider 66]

Missed the race completely ... dealing with other stuff.... on a side note how do you add multiple quotes to a response?

the far right icon next to reply with quote. on the bottom of a the persons post. Hit that for each post you want to multi quote.

[batt33]

the far right icon next to reply with quote. on the bottom of a the persons post. Hit that for each post you want to multi quote.

Thanks Easy! Guess if it was a snake it would have bit me!

[JBEX]

on the lead while facing serious pace pressure from the 1/4 to well past the 3/8th ..held together pretty well to finish 2nd by 1.5 lengths ..good chance to win at or around this level next out

honestly I would not want to lose this horse for $20k and I believe there's a good chance they will if they run him in the same type of race next out..think he may have needed that effort as it was such a long time since he'd been in all out competitive race..when in shape I think he could possibly win a turf sprint or even an allowance race down the road

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Straight No Chaser Workout Report
[/COLOR]
Straight No Chaser had his final breeze in preparation for the G2 Riyadh Dirt Sprint on Monday morning. Working under Juan Landeros, Straight No Chaser broke off from the 800 meter pole and cruised over the Riyadh main track in :48 and change. In the video above it will take you through your son of Speightster's morning including the pre-work instructions from trainer Dan Blacker to assistant Juan Landeros, the work itself and Dan's opinion on how the work went.
He cooled out in great shape after the work, scoped clean and all we can do is hope everything continues in good order over the next few days. We are very pleased with how everything has went to thus point. Straight No Chaser will likely have a walk day tomorrow which is his usual schedule a day after a work but depending on his energy in the morning, he could potentially head out for an easy jog on the training track if necessary. He is also scheduled to have is first day of paddock schooling tomorrow morning. This will be a very quick introduction to the paddock and as we mentioned, he is scheduled to also school Wednesday and Thursday in the afternoons. https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...9788888353.mp4

Looks great Batt.

[str]

honestly I would not want to lose this horse for $20k and I believe there's a good chance they will if they run him in the same type of race next out..think he may have needed that effort as it was such a long time since he'd been in all out competitive race..when in shape I think he could possibly win a turf sprint or even an allowance race down the road

Agree JBEX. That was the race to take him if you were going to.

[JBEX]

Agree JBEX. That was the race to take him if you were going to.

they have clm 35 and 50k for n2l so maybe that's a little more realistic than an allowance race ..think I'd want the extra protection of the latter for my first shot and then drop if necessary ..be interesting to see where he winds up



.

[JBEX]

they have clm 35 and 50k for n2l so maybe that's a little more realistic than an allowance race ..think I'd want the extra protection of the latter for my first shot and then drop if necessary ..be interesting to see where he winds up



.

latter being clm 50k and not the allowance race

[Jellymancan]

Magnitude needs surgery for a bone chip in the ankle. Ugh!

[Easy-Rider 66]

Magnitude needs surgery for a bone chip in the ankle. Ugh!

too bad. thx for the update Jelly.

[batt33]

Magnitude needs surgery for a bone chip in the ankle. Ugh!

too bad. thx for the update Jelly.

<br>
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Dang it.... High's and low's of the game....

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Ragozin Figure
[/COLOR]
Caldera’s Ragozin figure for Sunday’s race came out today, and he earned a very strong number for his performance: a 6.
On the Ragozin scale—a.k.a. “The Sheets”—the lower the figure, the better.
Getaway Car ran an 8” (+ denotes a quarter point; - means minus a quarter point; “ is a half point, so Getaway Car ran an 8 1/2).
How could Caldera have run faster than Getaway Car? Unlike speed figure such as Beyer, Equibase and Brisnet that strictly represent final time adjusted for speed of the track, sheet figures also incorporate additional factors such as ground loss and how much weight a horse was carrying (Thoro-Graph is another example of a sheet-style figure).
Obviously, in this case, the additional ground Caldera covered compared to Getaway Car was what made the difference on figures.
For this time of year as a 3-year-old, a 6 is very strong. Here are some other recent Ragozins earned by sophomores:
10+ for Sam F. Davis winner John Hancock
10” for champion juvenile Citizen Bull in the G3 Robert B. Lewis
9+ for G2 Holy Bull winner Burnham Square
10+ for Withers winner Captain Cook
Recent maiden romper Colloquial, who earned a gaudy 106 Beyer Speed Figure, ran a 4- on the Sheets. We don’t yet know the number for Magnitude’s jaw-dropping win in Saturday’s G2 Risen Star, but it’ll likely come back very fast—he ran a 108 Beyer.
The Sheets are just one more tool to interpret a performance and predict what a horse might do next, and are often used to interpret form cycles (I.e. when a horse is set up to peak, or might regress or “bounce”). There’s never any guarantee that a horse will follow a particular pattern or repeat a particularly fast number again, but this gives us one more reason to be impressed by yesterday’s run and excited for the future.
We’ve started some internal discussions as far as nexttargets are concerned, but will let the dust settle a bit before going over options with The Coach and getting his take. Stay tuned.

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Tuesday Morning with SNC

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...9868895037.mp4
[/COLOR]
Straight No Chaser jogged up in good order following yesterday’s breeze. As mentioned yesterday, he had a walk day this morning, followed by a quick paddock schooling session. Straight No Chaser handled himself exceptionally well and seems to enjoy his new surroundings. He’ll head back to the paddock tomorrow afternoon with other horses to give it a bit more of a race day feel. He will also train over the training track tomorrow morning, likely jogging one lap and galloping one lap.
Enjoy the video above.

[batt33]

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]h Dirt Sprint Post Draw
[/COLOR]
The field for Saturday’s G2 Riyadh Dirt Sprint was drawn Tuesday and Straight No Chaser was assigned gate #9 (he will wear saddle towel 10). The other main speed, Jasper Krone, is drawn immediately to his outside, so jockey John Velazquez will have to determine optimal tactics, but if anyone can do that, it’s the Hall of Famer.
As discussed in our video preview released over the weekend, this does still appear to be Straight No Chaser’s race to win.
Post time for the race will be 5:00 p.m. local time, which is 9:00 a.m. ET.

[Madison]

What a heck of a horse race! Caldera lost the head bob... I thought he was going right on by "getaway car" but hung a little galloped out nicely though!

Nice horse he lost to. Wish we put 2 and 2 together for the EX.

[Madison]

it was and possibly going as wide as he did cost him towards the end ..cost them $160k and I believe 10 pts but more importantly he moves forward as a derby contender..the filly version going half furlong shorter was 6 seconds off the track record while the derby was 2 seconds off so potentially the figure caldera ran might be very good

Other one is SUN R9 #4 Getaway Car. High expectations here. 9 is a Liams/Tiznow who has underperformed to date.

[Easy-Rider 66]

<br>
<br>
Dang it.... High's and low's of the game....

Magnitude on the sidelines for at least 9 weeks.

[JBEX]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Ragozin Figure
[/COLOR]
Caldera’s Ragozin figure for Sunday’s race came out today, and he earned a very strong number for his performance: a 6.
On the Ragozin scale—a.k.a. “The Sheets”—the lower the figure, the better.
Getaway Car ran an 8” (+ denotes a quarter point; - means minus a quarter point; “ is a half point, so Getaway Car ran an 8 1/2).
How could Caldera have run faster than Getaway Car? Unlike speed figure such as Beyer, Equibase and Brisnet that strictly represent final time adjusted for speed of the track, sheet figures also incorporate additional factors such as ground loss and how much weight a horse was carrying (Thoro-Graph is another example of a sheet-style figure).
Obviously, in this case, the additional ground Caldera covered compared to Getaway Car was what made the difference on figures.
For this time of year as a 3-year-old, a 6 is very strong. Here are some other recent Ragozins earned by sophomores:
10+ for Sam F. Davis winner John Hancock
10” for champion juvenile Citizen Bull in the G3 Robert B. Lewis
9+ for G2 Holy Bull winner Burnham Square
10+ for Withers winner Captain Cook
Recent maiden romper Colloquial, who earned a gaudy 106 Beyer Speed Figure, ran a 4- on the Sheets. We don’t yet know the number for Magnitude’s jaw-dropping win in Saturday’s G2 Risen Star, but it’ll likely come back very fast—he ran a 108 Beyer.
The Sheets are just one more tool to interpret a performance and predict what a horse might do next, and are often used to interpret form cycles (I.e. when a horse is set up to peak, or might regress or “bounce”). There’s never any guarantee that a horse will follow a particular pattern or repeat a particularly fast number again, but this gives us one more reason to be impressed by yesterday’s run and excited for the future.
We’ve started some internal discussions as far as nexttargets are concerned, but will let the dust settle a bit before going over options with The Coach and getting his take. Stay tuned.

guessing he traveled about 4 -6 lengths further going wide around both turns ..would account for the much lower (better) figure which as they said is an excellent one for a 3yo's this time of year..add to that (for me anyway) an early foal with a somewhat late start to his career (means he's getting his sh*t together quick) and I'd say things are developing really nice for him

interesting to see what final leg derby prep he'll shoot for..with the number he earned last out they might not be afraid to go anywhere..I like the louisiana derby as it's usually a little easier than arkansas or florida and you get to go the extra 1/16 th of a mile..5 weeks away and 6 weeks prior to the big one..nice spacing imo..whatever the path exciting to see him going forward as a serious contender

[JBEX]

guessing he traveled about 4 -6 lengths further going wide around both turns ..would account for the much lower (better) figure which as they said is an excellent one for a 3yo's this time of year..add to that (for me anyway) an early foal with a somewhat late start to his career (means he's getting his sh*t together quick) and I'd say things are developing really nice for him

interesting to see what final leg derby prep he'll shoot for..with the number he earned last out they might not be afraid to go anywhere..I like the louisiana derby as it's usually a little easier than arkansas or florida and you get to go the extra 1/16 th of a mile..5 weeks away and 6 weeks prior to the big one..nice spacing imo..whatever the path exciting to see him going forward as a serious contender

plus tiznow's the dam's sire..only horse to win back to back bc classics (derby distance)

[lesterdymond]

STR when would you take a first time starter over more experienced horses ?

Does trainer %, stakes winner history, jock help in your decision making ?

[lesterdymond]

Thanks for time STR

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Ragozin Figure
[/COLOR]
Caldera’s Ragozin figure for Sunday’s race came out today, and he earned a very strong number for his performance: a 6.
On the Ragozin scale—a.k.a. “The Sheets”—the lower the figure, the better.
Getaway Car ran an 8” (+ denotes a quarter point; - means minus a quarter point; “ is a half point, so Getaway Car ran an 8 1/2).
How could Caldera have run faster than Getaway Car? Unlike speed figure such as Beyer, Equibase and Brisnet that strictly represent final time adjusted for speed of the track, sheet figures also incorporate additional factors such as ground loss and how much weight a horse was carrying (Thoro-Graph is another example of a sheet-style figure).
Obviously, in this case, the additional ground Caldera covered compared to Getaway Car was what made the difference on figures.
For this time of year as a 3-year-old, a 6 is very strong. Here are some other recent Ragozins earned by sophomores:
10+ for Sam F. Davis winner John Hancock
10” for champion juvenile Citizen Bull in the G3 Robert B. Lewis
9+ for G2 Holy Bull winner Burnham Square
10+ for Withers winner Captain Cook
Recent maiden romper Colloquial, who earned a gaudy 106 Beyer Speed Figure, ran a 4- on the Sheets. We don’t yet know the number for Magnitude’s jaw-dropping win in Saturday’s G2 Risen Star, but it’ll likely come back very fast—he ran a 108 Beyer.
The Sheets are just one more tool to interpret a performance and predict what a horse might do next, and are often used to interpret form cycles (I.e. when a horse is set up to peak, or might regress or “bounce”). There’s never any guarantee that a horse will follow a particular pattern or repeat a particularly fast number again, but this gives us one more reason to be impressed by yesterday’s run and excited for the future.
We’ve started some internal discussions as far as nexttargets are concerned, but will let the dust settle a bit before going over options with The Coach and getting his take. Stay tuned.

Are you familiar with the sheets BATT? They, like most publications, do have their flaws but it is a different and in many cases good way to help gauge the horses performance.

[str]

Magnitude on the sidelines for at least 9 weeks.

Sorry to hear but back in the day, it was a 6 months out of training situation for that same ankle. That equates to a 9-10 month between races schedule. Pretty amazing how far that has come.

[str]

guessing he traveled about 4 -6 lengths further going wide around both turns ..would account for the much lower (better) figure which as they said is an excellent one for a 3yo's this time of year..add to that (for me anyway) an early foal with a somewhat late start to his career (means he's getting his sh*t together quick) and I'd say things are developing really nice for him

interesting to see what final leg derby prep he'll shoot for..with the number he earned last out they might not be afraid to go anywhere..I like the louisiana derby as it's usually a little easier than arkansas or florida and you get to go the extra 1/16 th of a mile..5 weeks away and 6 weeks prior to the big one..nice spacing imo..whatever the path exciting to see him going forward as a serious contender

plus tiznow's the dam's sire..only horse to win back to back bc classics (derby distance)

Heck, half the fun of all of this is watching the decisions made by each trainer as to where to run back. Fun stuff.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Are you familiar with the sheets BATT? They, like most publications, do have their flaws but it is a different and in many cases good way to help gauge the horses performance.

I prefer the T-graph sheets over the Ragozin. Are you familiar with the T-graph STR?

[str]

STR when would you take a first time starter over more experienced horses ?

Does trainer %, stakes winner history, jock help in your decision making ?

Thanks for time STR

2nd response first. The time I give allows me to continue to think about and talk about something I truly loved learning and participating in.
As always Lester, it is my pleasure.

1st question. It's a great one.

While all three should be looked at, I would choose in order your first catagory, then 3rd, and then 2nd. Here is why.

No matter how good the horse is, the trainers intentions from as soon as that trainer realizes what they might have, they will train a certain way. If that trainer is solid with firsters, that's great. But if their total win % overall is , let's say 16-20% and their first time starter win % is well below that, I find it hard to blindly bet that horse based solely on the fact that the trainer has a theory in their method which emphasizes longevity and a career and not that first start. That typically also is shown by previous firsters having similar traits in running style. Case in point.

Wesley Ward firster? Speed right? and probably run very well right?

Christopher Clement/ Graham Motion/ etc. firster. Relax, sit still a bit, and finish up.

That is not to say that those guys train every horse the same. They are all fabulous trainers. But the styles in which they do what they do getting firsters over to the paddock the first time are teaching the horse differently.
Each trainers firster win % is a key for me. I look at the trainer first.

The rider: Most trainers will use their regular rider on their firsters unless they have a reason NOT to. If they do have a reason NOT to, I as a handicapper would guess that to be a negative. It won't always be, but you play the percentages over time with that right? Also, the works might lend a hand in that decision. A smaller trainer that does not always get the leading rider but has that leading rider or close to it that they might not normally have on that firster? Obviously very positive.

The breeding. Well you have the sires like Uncle Mo who throws a ton of live firsters and that must always be considered. The form gives you sire % of winning firsters and I always at least glance at that. But the mare can be just as important if not more so IMO. Not so much if the mare does NOT throw winning firsters but if that mare was a winning firster, that speaks loudly too me Lester. And of course, if they have siblings that won first out, that just makes the argument stronger.

Use those things and if you want to get more specific, let me know.

Hope that helps Lester.

[Easy-Rider 66]

T-graph lets you look at the data after the races are run in the redboard room. Also they have free races of the week at times and Jerry Brown gives the data away for free every Christmas week. They also have a message board as well.

[str]

I prefer the T-graph sheets over the Ragozin. Are you familiar with the T-graph STR?

I don't think I am EZ. I know the Ragozin sheets well, Don't think I am familiar with the T- graph sheets.

[str]

T-graph lets you look at the data after the races are run in the redboard room. Also they have free races of the week at times and Jerry Brown gives the data away for free every Christmas week. They also have a message board as well.

Interesting. I have to think they could be very useful as well. So much of that info comes down to interpretation from the reader. Like most, I have to think it is something where some of the info given means more to certain situations than others. That is what I saw in the Rag sheets. Same with the racing form IMO.

[Easy-Rider 66]

I don't think I am EZ. I know the Ragozin sheets well, Don't think I am familiar with the T- graph sheets.

OK STR check out the site sometime if interested. Last time I checked T-Graph much better site than Ragozin as far as info provided.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Interesting. I have to think they could be very useful as well. So much of that info comes down to interpretation from the reader. Like most, I have to think it is something where some of the info given means more to certain situations than others. That is what I saw in the Rag sheets. Same with the racing form IMO.

agreed. good take.

[str]

plus tiznow's the dam's sire..only horse to win back to back bc classics (derby distance)

And there it is JBEX. The little, subtle things that you can take away from a publication. That is such good information to help make a decision.

[str]

OK STR check out the site sometime if interested. Last time I checked T-Graph much better site than Ragozin as far as info provided.

I will EZ. I'm not so sure Len Ragozin is still alive. If so, he is really up there I think. I know King T. is 93 and they were together in the late 70's.
Can't wait to see King again this year at the horseman's reunion at Laurel Park. Think it is April 13th?? He is incredible. I like him so much even though every time I went head and head with him for a training title, he beat me. The last day twice! Talk about tough to pass late. Lol.