POOL #1 Who is Your Derby Horse.

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  • brock
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-07-08
    • 8175

    #1
    POOL #1 Who is Your Derby Horse.
    As usual, field opens as Pool 1 favorite
    By MARTY McGEE
    LOUISVILLE, Ky. - A new calendar is one sign, and the running of the first few prep races is another. Still another sign that the Kentucky Derby chase has begun is the first of three pools in the Kentucky Derby Future Wager, which opens Thursday at racetracks and wagering outlets throughout North America.

    Hall of Fame trainer Nick Zito has seen the signs many times before, having won the Derby twice (1991, 1994) while also tying the record for the most Derby starters (five) in 2005. This year, Zito is once again stepping onto the Derby trail with a high profile, this time as the trainer of War Pass, the unbeaten 2-year-old champion and a co-favorite among the 23 separate betting interests in Pool 1 of the Derby futures offered by Churchill Downs.

    War Pass is rated by Churchill oddsmaker Mike Battaglia as a 12-1 chance in Pool 1, the same as Pyro and Court Vision. As usual, the field - the 24th or "all others" option - is a solid morning-line favorite at 5-2. The field has always closed as the Pool 1 favorite since the first Derby Future Wager in 1999.

    War Pass, a winner of all four of his starts in front-running fashion, figures as a horse of particular interest for 2008 futures bettors in light of how he was one-dimensional in dominating his class at 2. Nonetheless, Zito said he believes futures bettors playing against War Pass will be doing so at their own peril.

    "First thing is, you start from the top," Zito said earlier this week from south Florida. "He's still the champ - that's one good reason for people to like him, right or wrong? Second thing is, he's a fabulous horse. If he keeps doing well, they've got him to beat. Obviously things change before the first Saturday in May, but maybe we'll get a break with this Derby."

    Zito reiterated that he intends to enter War Pass in an unspecified prep race later this month, then follow with the March 15 Tampa Bay Derby and the April 5 Wood Memorial.

    "That's if everything goes good," said Zito. "It's always good to have a backup plan, and we do. As everybody knows, getting to the Derby depends on how things go day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. So far, though, everything has been great for War Pass."

    Just behind War Pass, Pyro, and Court Vision among the individual entries for Pool 1 are four horses listed at 15-1: El Gato Malo, Etched, Majestic Warrior, and Z Humor.

    Meanwhile, the field also is the 5-2 morning-line favorite in Pool 1 of the Oaks Future Wager, which runs concurrently with the Derby futures.

    After the field, the early Oaks co-favorites are Indian Blessing and Country Star at 8-1 each, followed by Proud Spell and Pure Clan at 12-1 each, and By the Light at 15-1.

    One last-minute change was made to the Oaks field Tuesday morning when More Happy was replaced by Eight Belles. Trainer Bob Baffert informed Churchill officials that More Happy would not make the Oaks.

    After the field was made official, owner Samantha Siegel said Tuesday evening that her filly By the Light, winner of the Delta Princess Stakes, was to have ankle surgery and would not be ready for the Oaks.

    As usual, there will be three wagering periods of four days each for the wagers. Pool 2 is set for March 6-9 and Pool 3 from April 3-6. All pools will open at noon Eastern on a Thursday, with the Derby pools closing at 6 p.m. on a Sunday and the Oaks pools closing a half-hour later.

    Results are based on the 134th Derby, which is set for May 3, and the 134th Oaks, to be run the previous day. The parimutuel wagers are win only, with no refunds, although Churchill scratches horses known to be eliminated from contention. Takeout is 16 percent.

    Each Oaks pool typically gets only about 15 percent of the handle that the Derby pool attracts. Last year, the combined handle on the three Derby futures pools was $1,365,424, compared with $193,086 for the Oaks.

    This will be the 10th year for the Derby Future Wager, and the fifth for three pools of Oaks futures. A single Oaks pool was first used in 2003.

    Lineups are selected by the three-man committee of John Asher of Churchill and Brad Free and Mike Watchmaker of Daily Racing Form.

    Indian Blessing Oaks

    El Gato Malo Derby
  • brock
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-07-08
    • 8175

    #2
    These are fools bets, but there also fun.
    Comment
    • INVEGA MAN
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 01-30-08
      • 6796

      #3
      I take the field every year. It is fun because i can have up to 10 horses for the derby
      Comment
      • bbyhill
        SBR MVP
        • 09-16-07
        • 2991

        #4
        The field is the fav LOL
        Comment
        • dodif
          SBR MVP
          • 12-24-06
          • 2037

          #5
          just put $1000 on war pass
          Comment
          • INVEGA MAN
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 01-30-08
            • 6796

            #6
            bbyhill
            SBR Wise Guy




            Join Date: 09-16-07
            Location: oklahoma
            Posts: 534

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            The field is the fav LOL

            When you get 8 to 10 horses, dont you think you would be the favotite. If you have taken the field every year since they have started taken this bet, you would be ahead. You take your one horse and i will take my chance with 10 horses. I will take those odds every year
            Comment
            • brock
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 01-07-08
              • 8175

              #7
              The field is always a good choice. Anyone know
              of any good three year old long shots.
              Comment
              • brock
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 01-07-08
                • 8175

                #8
                Horse ML Odds
                1 Anak Nakal 20-1
                2 Blackberry Road 20-1
                3 Bob Black Jack 50-1
                4 Colonel John 30-1
                5 Court Vision 12-1
                6 Cowboy Cal 20-1
                7 Crown of Thorns 20-1
                8 Denis of Cork 30-1
                9 El Gato Malo 15-1
                10 Etched 15-1
                11 Georgie Boy 20-1
                12 Giant Moon 20-1
                13 Into Mischief 20-1
                14 Majestic Warrior 15-1
                15 Monba 30-1
                16 Pyro 12-1
                17 Signature Move 50-1
                18 Smooth Air 20-1
                19 Tale of Ekati 20-1
                20 War Pass 12-1
                21 Yankee Bravo 20-1
                22 Z Fortune 20-1
                23 Z Humor 15-1
                24 All other 3-year-olds 5-2

                KY Oaks Future Wager Pool 1 Odds
                # Horse ML Odds
                1 A to the Croft 30-1
                2 American County 30-1
                3 Backseat Rhythm 20-1
                4 Bsharpsonata 30-1
                5 By the Light 15-1
                6 C J's Leelee 30-1
                7 Country Star 8-1
                8 Eight Belles 30-1
                9 Final Fling 20-1
                10 Game Face 20-1
                11 Golden Doc A 20-1
                12 Grace Anatomy 30-1
                13 Grace and Power 30-1
                14 Indian Blessing 8-1
                15 Izarra 50-1
                16 Jolie the Cat 30-1
                17 Proud Spell 12-1
                18 Pure Clan 12-1
                19 Rated Fiesty 20-1
                20 Sea Chanter 20-1
                21 Tasha's Miracle 20-1
                22 Tizaqueen 50-1
                23 Turn Away 20-1
                24 All other 3-year-old fillies 5-2




                Kentucky Derby Future Wager - Wagering 1999-2007
                Total Wagering
                Pool 1 Pool 2 Pool 3 Derby Day
                2007 $520,688 $379,613 $465,123 $1,365,424
                2006 $552,627 $464,236 $454,743 $1,471,606
                2005 $620,362 $511,655 $533,973 $1,665,990
                2004 $536,958 $358,966 $386,244 $1,282,168
                2003 $516,906 $391,002 $222,261 $1,130,169
                2002 $577,889 $401,070 $524,847 $1,503,806
                2001 $510,815 $372,961 $425,871 $1,309,647
                2000 $465,454 $306,259 $387,206 $1,158,919
                1999 $267,748 $178,811 $229,674 $676,233


                Kentucky Derby Future Wagers - Payoffs 1999-2006
                Payoffs for $2
                Pool 1 Pool 2 Pool 3 Derby Day
                2007 - Street Sense $22.80 $18.20 $15.4- $11.80
                2006 - Barbaro $40.20 $32.20 $20.80 $14.20
                2005 - Giacomo $52.00 $54.20 $103.60 $102.60
                2004 - Smarty Jones $5.60* $10.80* $23.60 $10.20
                2003 - Funny Cide $188.00 $120.80 $107.40 $27.60
                2002 - War Emblem $7.60* $16.00* $24.00* $43.00
                2001 - Monarchos $36.60 $13.00 $15.80 $23.00
                2000 - Fusaichi Pegasus $27.80 $26.40 $8.00 $6.60
                1999 - Charismatic $10.20* $30.20* $26.60* $64.60
                *Part of mutuel field
                Comment
                • bbyhill
                  SBR MVP
                  • 09-16-07
                  • 2991

                  #9
                  Originally posted by INVEGA MAN
                  bbyhill
                  SBR Wise Guy




                  Join Date: 09-16-07
                  Location: oklahoma
                  Posts: 534

                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  The field is the fav LOL

                  When you get 8 to 10 horses, dont you think you would be the favotite. If you have taken the field every year since they have started taken this bet, you would be ahead. You take your one horse and i will take my chance with 10 horses. I will take those odds every year


                  Yes I know.I actualy took Barbaro and won with that.This year thinking of taking Pyro,Into Mischief,Tale of Ekati also think Tomcito
                  Comment
                  • brock
                    SBR Hall of Famer
                    • 01-07-08
                    • 8175

                    #10
                    These are just opening lines. Some of the above horses will
                    run this weekend and get bet down. Some will run poor and
                    the price will go up. The field may close at 3-1 or 4-1 The
                    betting on pool #1 runs Thursday thru Sunday.
                    Comment
                    • bbyhill
                      SBR MVP
                      • 09-16-07
                      • 2991

                      #11
                      yes and when I hit on Barbaro it was from pool 1
                      Comment
                      • INVEGA MAN
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 01-30-08
                        • 6796

                        #12
                        Brock, who do you like? I usually take the field but throw in a couple of bets for a longshot
                        Comment
                        • brock
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 01-07-08
                          • 8175

                          #13
                          Tough to pick a horse because of the horses running against
                          each other this weekend. Indian Blessing and Proud Spell run
                          tomorrow. I like Proud Spell in this one. Pyro is a good horse
                          that is also running tomorrow. I don't know that much about
                          the field of runners yet. May-be by Sunday.
                          Comment
                          • bbyhill
                            SBR MVP
                            • 09-16-07
                            • 2991

                            #14
                            Originally posted by INVEGA MAN
                            bbyhill
                            SBR Wise Guy




                            Join Date: 09-16-07
                            Location: oklahoma
                            Posts: 534

                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            The field is the fav LOL

                            When you get 8 to 10 horses, dont you think you would be the favotite. If you have taken the field every year since they have started taken this bet, you would be ahead. You take your one horse and i will take my chance with 10 horses. I will take those odds every year



                            why bet the field when at post time they will have better value
                            Comment
                            • bbyhill
                              SBR MVP
                              • 09-16-07
                              • 2991

                              #15
                              13,16,17 and of course we don't know how some will perform on dirt
                              Comment
                              • dodif
                                SBR MVP
                                • 12-24-06
                                • 2037

                                #16
                                any current odds available
                                Comment
                                • Wrigley
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 12-28-07
                                  • 7268

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by bbyhill
                                  why bet the field when at post time they will have better value

                                  You cant bet the field on derby day didnt they do away with field betting at the derby?
                                  Comment
                                  • bbyhill
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 09-16-07
                                    • 2991

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Wrigley
                                    You cant bet the field on derby day didnt they do away with field betting at the derby?


                                    I don't mean the field I mean the horse will have better odds at post time then they get now in the field
                                    Last edited by bbyhill; 02-11-08, 11:31 PM.
                                    Comment
                                    • INVEGA MAN
                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                      • 01-30-08
                                      • 6796

                                      #19
                                      why bet the field when at post time they will have better value


                                      But It won't be worth betting if I have 8-10 horses. How could I make money at post time by betting 8-10 horses
                                      Comment
                                      • dodif
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 12-24-06
                                        • 2037

                                        #20
                                        got $3000 on war pass 10 to 1 to win the derby
                                        Comment
                                        • WizardofWins
                                          SBR High Roller
                                          • 01-08-08
                                          • 211

                                          #21
                                          Anyone see Pyro run yesterday.....Huge closer
                                          Comment
                                          • dodif
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 12-24-06
                                            • 2037

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by WizardofWins
                                            Anyone see Pyro run yesterday.....Huge closer
                                            War Pass has beat Pyro 3 times. But I will cover my wager on Pyro 7 to 1 to be safe.
                                            Comment
                                            • brock
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 01-07-08
                                              • 8175

                                              #23
                                              I was watching and had Pyro in a handicapping contest.
                                              Didn't think the horse had a chance until the big move.
                                              Never looked at the fractions but it was impressive.
                                              Comment
                                              • brock
                                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                                • 01-07-08
                                                • 8175

                                                #24
                                                Sounds like the fhilly Indian Blessing was better than Pyro.

                                                Pyro blazes after clearing traffic
                                                By MARCUS HERSH

                                                Alexander Barkoff
                                                Pyro, last entering the stretch of Saturday?s Risen Star, rallies to victory under Shaun Bridgmohan.
                                                NEW ORLEANS - You could hear the skeptical rumblings in some quarters. Pyro was a nose away from still being a maiden. Pyro was clunking along, eating War Pass's dust last year. What had Pyro done, really, to rate his lofty ranking as a Kentucky Derby contender?

                                                News flash: Pyro is for real.

                                                Last at the top of the Fair Grounds stretch and trailing a very slow pace, Pyro passed all 10 of his rivals in about a quarter-mile and won the Grade 3, $300,000 Risen Star Stakes by two lengths.

                                                Pyro ($3.80), a Winchell Thoroughbreds homebred by Pulpit, keyed a Steve Asmussen-trained exacta, with second-choice Z Fortune three-quarters of a length better than Visionaire, who had a perfect trip. Unbridled Vicar was fourth, and Blackberry Road was a tough-trip fifth.

                                                At the quarter pole, there was no way Pyro could win his 2008 debut. He had too much to do and the leaders would have too much energy left after dawdling splits of 49.50 seconds for the half-mile and 1:14.62 for three-quarters. But then came a move only a truly gifted horse could make.

                                                As soon as Pyro straightened onto his right lead and leveled off for the stretch run, jockey Shaun Bridgmohan gave him his cue. He passed the lagging trailers in a matter of strides, and at the three-sixteenths pole, Bridgmohan made a sharp right turn, taking him off the fence and narrowly cutting in behind Unbridled Vicar. Pyro was in the clear - and then he really started to run. He went past the mid-pack horses and took aim on his stablemate Z Fortune, who had seized the lead turning for home. Pryo mowed him down, too, and a couple strides before the wire, Bridgmohan went not to the whip, but to his bare hand, giving Pyro a couple congratulatory pats.

                                                "Unbelievable," Bridghmohan said, watching the replay of the stretch run afterward. "I never even hit him."

                                                Z Fortune, held off the slow early pace by Garrett Gomez, was the first to make a move, pushing to the front just before the quarter pole. No match for Pyro, Z Fortune at least validated his win in the Lecomte Stakes.

                                                "He's on the right track," Gomez said. "He's kind of like a teenager. When I made the lead, he halfway idled down on me."

                                                Pyro was time in 1:44.68 for 1 1/16 miles, almost a second slower than Indian Blessing had run a half-hour earlier. But Pyro ran his final quarter-mile in about 22.60 seconds and should continue to develop.

                                                "He's a tremendous horse," Asmussen said. "He's good enough to do what we just watched."
                                                Comment
                                                • INVEGA MAN
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 01-30-08
                                                  • 6796

                                                  #25
                                                  I got the field at 3-1. Now I want to see some horses bail out. The more the better. I got all the horses in my "stable watch" to see how they are doing.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • bbyhill
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 09-16-07
                                                    • 2991

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by WizardofWins
                                                    Anyone see Pyro run yesterday.....Huge closer


                                                    very impressive esp for 1st off the bench
                                                    Comment
                                                    • bbyhill
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 09-16-07
                                                      • 2991

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by INVEGA MAN
                                                      I got the field at 3-1. Now I want to see some horses bail out. The more the better. I got all the horses in my "stable watch" to see how they are doing.


                                                      if they all make it or if some make it at post time they will be higher then 3-1
                                                      Comment
                                                      • brock
                                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                                        • 01-07-08
                                                        • 8175

                                                        #28
                                                        The field as of a bet now will be individual betting interests
                                                        in the derby. Invega Man could have zero to all the horses
                                                        that show up on derby day. 3-1 is not a bad bet.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • dodif
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 12-24-06
                                                          • 2037

                                                          #29


                                                          Comment
                                                          • brock
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 01-07-08
                                                            • 8175

                                                            #30
                                                            Good videos. makes you think War Pass well not get a uncontested lead in the derby. One mile and a quarter
                                                            will probably get beat in the stretch.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • dodif
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 12-24-06
                                                              • 2037

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by brock
                                                              Good videos. makes you think War Pass well not get a uncontested lead in the derby. One mile and a quarter
                                                              will probably get beat in the stretch.
                                                              OR

                                                              Will get the lead, keep it and win it

                                                              Superior talent puts him in the lead and keeps him there. Looks like he has more to give and jockey doesnt have to ask for it because the finish line is ahead.
                                                              Last edited by dodif; 02-12-08, 10:05 PM.
                                                              Comment
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