is this why horizontals pay more?

**littlekona** · 10-08-19, 05:45 PM

I think the all favorites pick 5 ticket pays more then the parlay because of the big big spread players in these pools with the big tickets. That kind of boasts the favorite ticket BUT also would reduce the mid price horse tickets and the long shot tickets always pay big...In the pick 4 and 5's the key is to toss the bad 8/5 shots that go off at 3-1 and find the 5/2 bet down horse that was 8-1 ML....In pic 4 and 5 those bet down 5/2's from ML of 8-1 or higher play at ML price and not the race post time bet down price as many people just play off the ML in multi race bets

**unusialsusp5** · 10-08-19, 06:16 PM

horizontals shouldn't be played period. you are forced to play the races in a sequence that could be plagued with a short field(s) or a race that you deem unplayable. siphoning out vertical plays on playable races seems to be a better option. why let the track dictate what races you have to play.

**littlekona** · 10-08-19, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by unusialsusp5

horizontals shouldn't be played period. you are forced to play the races in a sequence that could be plagued with a short field(s) or a race that you deem unplayable. siphoning out vertical plays on playable races seems to be a better option. why let the track dictate what races you have to play.

What are you talking about? They are the best value esp when carryover exist...if you dont like the sequence dont play it

**Louisvillekid1** · 10-08-19, 07:16 PM

You don’t have to play every one lol

**littlekona** · 10-09-19, 07:06 AM

btw most tracks have 15% or so takeout on pic 5

**littlekona** · 10-09-19, 09:59 AM

years ago Delaware had a pic 6 wager that allowed you to pick any 6 races among the card and basically create your own sequence. It did not last long....Interesting also how many tracks now are going away from tradition 2$ base pick 6 and now to the 20 cent jackpot. If the racing Secretary is smart with race placement its a jackpot for the tracks as the guaranteed payout days are HUGE

**JBEX** · 10-09-19, 10:05 PM

keeneland wednesday

(calculated in my head.. within 3-5% of the truth)

.50 pick 4 (pool $356k).. parlay $156.. pd $466
.50 pick 5 (pool $305k)..parlay $1170..pd $2917

early pk 4 (pool $150k)..parlay $1950..pd $4747
early pk 5 (pool $244)..parlay $6750..pd $12965

plus whatever consolations payoffs for 4 on the pk 5's

**Louisvillekid1** · 10-10-19, 07:10 AM

Are you just parlaying the Win payouts?

i know you know horses pay much different betting in advance

a 3/1 that goes off 8/1

or vice versa

maybe that’s the difference?

the win payouts are meaningless

look at it more like a knockout

every horse is same

just win and move on

pool -15% divided by who’s left standing at end

**Louisvillekid1** · 10-10-19, 07:17 AM

Some times a 5/2 fav might be 4-5th highest payout in multi race bets

**JBEX** · 10-10-19, 11:00 AM

I just feel bottomline that comparing the parlay price to the payoff is a fair comparison of the value you're getting with the horizontal..my experience from casual observation is that they do pay more over the long haul and yesterday at keeneland was a lot more..in a game with such a high takeout I think it's a nice edge to have..

**StackinGreen** · 10-11-19, 10:10 AM

Yes, possibly the main reason, but more that spreading and chasing happen with bigger horizontal wagers, especially the pick 4 where it doesn't become as expensive as a 5 or definitely a 6 (though now there are hardly, if any $2 minimum bets left, or even $1) if you don't single. Also, keep in mind that "beating a favorite" that is logical in a sequence tends to get more bold players precisely because most, not all, players are going for big payouts with these bets.

If you are going for pure value, then loving 2 of 4 legs of a pick four or 3 legs of a pick 5, even as odds on favorites (with some spreading in the other legs) can yield nice profits. But your volume (the times you play it) must go up --- and your ticket prices, overall, down.

**JBEX** · 10-11-19, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by StackinGreen

Yes, possibly the main reason, but more that spreading and chasing happen with bigger horizontal wagers, especially the pick 4 where it doesn't become as expensive as a 5 or definitely a 6 (though now there are hardly, if any $2 minimum bets left, or even $1) if you don't single. Also, keep in mind that "beating a favorite" that is logical in a sequence tends to get more bold players precisely because most, not all, players are going for big payouts with these bets.

If you are going for pure value, then loving 2 of 4 legs of a pick four or 3 legs of a pick 5, even as odds on favorites (with some spreading in the other legs) can yield nice profits. But your volume (the times you play it) must go up --- and your ticket prices, overall, down.

I agree with what you said about the pick 4 as far as spreading.. that 1 less leg gives the avg player a chance to cover more combos so maybe that adds a little more fat into the pool.. also agree that you've got to compensate for less combos and lower price singles with a higher base wager

**StackinGreen** · 10-12-19, 11:16 AM

Yes, if I feel very strongly about half the sequence, I love to play them. Mostly because I find the wager itself to be so much fun, having "outs" and rooting at times for the longer shots to somehow surprise you with a greater payout if your tops don't come in.

One of the most exciting times in horse wagering is waiting for the WILL PAY screens to come up before the last leg ...

the next 45 minutes while you consider how that last result will unfold is great and scores are always difficult, so when you do hit, it is a rush.

**JBEX** · 10-12-19, 01:46 PM

yup..I know I only post individual races here but definitely like the bet..lots of positives about it

**Louisvillekid1** · 10-12-19, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by StackinGreen

Yes, if I feel very strongly about half the sequence, I love to play them. Mostly because I find the wager itself to be so much fun, having "outs" and rooting at times for the longer shots to somehow surprise you with a greater payout if your tops don't come in.

One of the most exciting times in horse wagering is waiting for the WILL PAY screens to come up before the last leg ...

the next 45 minutes while you consider how that last result will unfold is great and scores are always difficult, so when you do hit, it is a rush.

Couldn’t agree more

especially when you all last leg lol

**StackinGreen** · 10-13-19, 09:48 AM

Hehe, that's funny ... maybe the worst is when you're like 7 of 12 and somehow don't get nose to cross the line first