Warning: Game could be fixed this week in Madison

[ShamsWoof10]

If they have to fix it then it would be to fix it so Wisc. wins because they are not very good at all... UofM should beat them without too much of an issue...

I didn't know about that ULMonroe game... That is very interesting... If someone somehow can post a link where I can see the kicker try the extra point I can almost certainly tell you if he blew it on purpose...

[idontlikerocks]

Gee, wouldn't ya know it. Went to place my bet and the line is at 3 now. Was at 2.5 10 minutes ago

the big ten is monitoring your betting habits

[Furt]

I smell conspiracy

[strictlywinners]

no such thing as fixed games in games where millions of people are watching sorry you are wrong

Marky Mark the term fixed is extremely over used for bad beats and for mush bettors that lose because they are on the wrong side on a consistent basis. But do not dismiss the fact that fixes exist because they do. Do you remeber Rutgers SOuth florida? I had similiar information on that game. My best friend works in the Union with a Big east official in jersey and he told us before the game that Rutgers would win.

BB i think you could be right on this one. I have to talk to a few people first though to confirm your suspicions

[dante1]

ive never seen a fixed game in my life sorry believe your fairy tales only people that believe in fixed games are people that give excuses for losing propagnada crap this all is

Must agree with Mark. The idea that games are fixed is pretty crazy. Now, does that mean that some aren't fixed, of course not. But the number is so very very small. If you think about fixing pro games today it becomes very difficult. First, "three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" Meaning this stuff would come out and it has come out. Second, what high paid athelete is willing to chance his salary, pension, good name for a lousy 20,000 or even a little more. Doesn't make much sense. And you can't pay these guys millions because then you would need to bet tens of millions and that doesn't happen.

On the college scene it is difficult to fix a game by getting to only one player. It can happen and did but again, it is very rare. The only remaining possibility are the refs, that could happen but again you are taking a huge chance on a prison term.

Also, the people that are interested in fixing games are criminals, I think we can all agree on that. Much easier for the criminal mind to invest 50,000 on illegal drugs and make a profit of many hundreds of thousands then to use that same 50,000 to attempt to fix a game especially when irregular betting patterns show up so easily with modern computers.The criminal will migrate to the easiest and best return with the least chance of prosecution. And I don't think that is attempting to fix games.

The main reasons people think games are fixed is when the rare fixed game becomes public. Then you will hear, "see I told you," When in reality that is only proof of how little it happens, because most if not all of these games are exposed.

[Furt]

i agree with you, dante, however, the theory is that the big ten officials are getting the refs to throw it, not some criminals going to the players... but I completely agree with you

Do you really think that these people, highstanding citizens of the Big Tens, are going to risk everything they have by throwing a game? Thats asinine. If something like this would come out it would be disastrous to the Big Ten and all the schools in it. I doubt they would do taht just because they want to see a Michigan/OSU game for the title

[sergfro]

looks like vegas is wanting people to play michigan

[dante1]

i agree with you, dante, however, the theory is that the big ten officials are getting the refs to throw it, not some criminals going to the players... but I completely agree with you

Do you really think that these people, highstanding citizens of the Big Tens, are going to risk everything they have by throwing a game? Thats asinine. If something like this would come out it would be disastrous to the Big Ten and all the schools in it. I doubt they would do taht just because they want to see a Michigan/OSU game for the title

Furt

My main point was that this just doesn't happens as often as many people think. I think it is a very rare thing. I understood that the theory was the refs getting together.
That is even more crazy in my opinion. Only one ref has to report to the FBI, would you take that chance? Would you risk a dozen or more years in jail for a very small payoff?
You have to be completely insane. Doesn't happen, often.

[strictlywinners]

Must agree with Mark. The idea that games are fixed is pretty crazy. Now, does that mean that some aren't fixed, of course not. But the number is so very very small. If you think about fixing pro games today it becomes very difficult. First, "three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" Meaning this stuff would come out and it has come out. Second, what high paid athelete is willing to chance his salary, pension, good name for a lousy 20,000 or even a little more. Doesn't make much sense. And you can't pay these guys millions because then you would need to bet tens of millions and that doesn't happen.

On the college scene it is difficult to fix a game by getting to only one player. It can happen and did but again, it is very rare. The only remaining possibility are the refs, that could happen but again you are taking a huge chance on a prison term.

Also, the people that are interested in fixing games are criminals, I think we can all agree on that. Much easier for the criminal mind to invest 50,000 on illegal drugs and make a profit of many hundreds of thousands then to use that same 50,000 to attempt to fix a game especially when irregular betting patterns show up so easily with modern computers.The criminal will migrate to the easiest and best return with the least chance of prosecution. And I don't think that is attempting to fix games.

The main reasons people think games are fixed is when the rare fixed game becomes public. Then you will hear, "see I told you," When in reality that is only proof of how little it happens, because most if not all of these games are exposed.

Like i said before i disagree with those who are always crying fix but they do exist trust me. Most of the time it occurs with officials being on the take because they have more power on the outcome of a game then any player. The one thing you are wrong about is what pro althete would sacrifice career for good name. I dont know if you know this but alot of althetes are from the hood, look at michael vick pacman jones just to mention a few and we are not talking about 20,0000 we are talking about 200,000 and i dont care how much money you make 200,000 is still an extra 200,000.

In conclusion are alot of games fixed NO but are some games fixed absolutely

[ShamsWoof10]

Must agree with Mark. The idea that games are fixed is pretty crazy. Now, does that mean that some aren't fixed, of course not. But the number is so very very small. If you think about fixing pro games today it becomes very difficult. First, "three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" Meaning this stuff would come out and it has come out. Second, what high paid athelete is willing to chance his salary, pension, good name for a lousy 20,000 or even a little more. Doesn't make much sense. And you can't pay these guys millions because then you would need to bet tens of millions and that doesn't happen.

On the college scene it is difficult to fix a game by getting to only one player. It can happen and did but again, it is very rare. The only remaining possibility are the refs, that could happen but again you are taking a huge chance on a prison term.

Also, the people that are interested in fixing games are criminals, I think we can all agree on that. Much easier for the criminal mind to invest 50,000 on illegal drugs and make a profit of many hundreds of thousands then to use that same 50,000 to attempt to fix a game especially when irregular betting patterns show up so easily with modern computers.The criminal will migrate to the easiest and best return with the least chance of prosecution. And I don't think that is attempting to fix games.

The main reasons people think games are fixed is when the rare fixed game becomes public. So you will hear, "see I told you," When in reality that is only proof of how little it happens, because most if not all of these games are exposed.

Well I generally agree with this post but you left out the coach... Modern computers my as*... If I was coaching and I wanted to fix a game I could make a killing... First I would have a few trusted friends (which might be the hardest part of all) make or already have established accounts at as many places as I need making ok size bets relative to that book and/or local/agent... Then too make it look good I would play middles to move the money over to only a couple of books so this would take any attention there may have been off the original bets...

I wonder if Stutz (UT coach) has an agent..?

[pico]

go blue. i want michigan to win this. i want to see two undefeated conference teams playing each other for the final game of the season.

[dante1]

i agree with you, dante, however, the theory is that the big ten officials are getting the refs to throw it, not some criminals going to the players... but I completely agree with you

Do you really think that these people, highstanding citizens of the Big Tens, are going to risk everything they have by throwing a game? Thats asinine. If something like this would come out it would be disastrous to the Big Ten and all the schools in it. I doubt they would do taht just because they want to see a Michigan/OSU game for the title

Furt

My main point was that this just doesn't happen as often as many people think. I think it is a very rare thing. I understood that the theory was the refs getting together.That is even more crazy in my opinion. Only one ref has to report to the FBI, would you take that chance? Would you risk a dozen or more years in jail for a very small payoff You have to be completely insane. Doesn't happen, often.

[dante1]

Well I generally agree with this post but you left out the coach... Modern computers my as*... If I was coaching and I wanted to fix a game I could make a killing... First I would have a few trusted friends (which might be the hardest part of all) make or already have established accounts at as many places as I need making ok size bets relative to that book and/or local/agent... Then too make it look good I would play middles to move the money over to only a couple of books so this would take any attention there may have been off the original bets...

I wonder if Stutz (UT coach) has an agent..?

Sham

Your argument sounds good with one huge exception. You need a ton of people involved. That is how you get caught. People talk, eventually. Even the mafia was finally brought down, why because people talked.

When games are fixed, it comes out. I realize I am asking you to prove a negative but that is my opinion. Just don't think it happens no matter how well you think it out. Probably the safest way was if a ref did it completely independent of any other individual. And he would need to do it rarely and with great care. Not saying it doesn't happen but it certainly isn't a conspiracy, no way.

[Willie Bee]

And by the way, what about Dennis Franchione's newsletter? Does that not reek of fixing games?

No, it doesn't. My god, Buddy, do you really think Franchione put fixes in and then e-mailed a bunch of people about it?!

[dante1]

When I took action I found it unbelievable how many of my players thought seriously that every game was fixed. I had one player that told me every single Monday night NFL game was fixed. But, he even believed that they got together at half time and decided what team would win and what team would cover. Yeah, they had like a team meeting. And this guy wasn't really stupid, just nuts.

If a kicker missed a 58 yd field goal that would have covered at the end of the game he would use that as proof. Talk about crazy, these people are completely insane. When asked why do you bet his reply would be I try to pick the same side that is fixed. Now he was nuts.

[ShamsWoof10]

Sham

Your argument sounds good with one huge exception. You need a ton of people involved. That is how you get caught. People talk, eventually. Even the mafia was finally brought down, why because people talked.

When games are fixed, it comes out. I realize I am asking you to prove a negative but that is my opinion. Just don't think it happens no matter how well you think it out. Probably the safest way was if a ref did it completely independent of any other individual. And he would need to do it rarely and with great care. Not saying it doesn't happen but it certainly isn't a conspiracy, no way.

You only really need yourself and one or two other friends to place the wagers and handle the money movement... No need for anyone else to know... Unlike a ref. or even a player the coach has some influence over everything from game planning to play calling to personal on the field... This would be a piece of cake and maybe that's why STUTZ is so fat...he has many pieces...

This would have to be a head coach of course and unless it's a high profile school head coaches don't make that much... Sh*t as a head coach I would make a million a year just by fixing only ONE side and a couple totals...

How about this one... If I was a coach I would play line moves like you can't believe... Play one side before a major injury is released then play the other side after a big move... During the game if you have a chance to make it happen then you can do it... It might happen anyway..

[BuddyBear]

No, it doesn't. My god, Buddy, do you really think Franchione put fixes in and then e-mailed a bunch of people about it?!

Not sure if you are being serious or joking with me but Franchione is the epitome of a coach who is well aware of the spread...see the Baylor ending this year.

Also, remember that game last year between Oklahoma and Texas A&M where A&M was +1.5 and it was i believe 17-13 and with about 2:00 left Franchione kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th down inside the 10 yard line. Maybe someone can remind me the exact details. Clearly Franchione was more concerned with covering the point spread than actually winning the game.

[ShamsWoof10]

Not sure if you are being serious or joking with me but Franchione is the epitome of a coach who is well aware of the spread...see the Baylor ending this year.

Also, remember that game last year between Oklahoma and Texas A&M where A&M was +1.5 and it was i believe 17-13 and with about 2:00 left Franchione kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th down inside the 10 yard line. Maybe someone can remind me the exact details. Clearly Franchione was more concerned with covering the point spread than actually winning the game.

HAHAHAHA that's an excellent example to my point... Although if he had all three timeouts and it was 4th and pretty long then it may have made a little sense but that is very interesting.. Can anyone "chime" in on this I don't remember this happening...

[dante1]

You only really need yourself and one or two other friends to place the wagers and handle the money movement... No need for anyone else to know... Unlike a ref. or even a player the coach has some influence over everything from game planning to play calling to personal on the field... This would be a piece of cake and maybe that's why STUTZ is so fat...he has many pieces...

This would have to be a head coach of course and unless it's a high profile school head coaches don't make that much... Sh*t as a head coach I would make a million a year just by fixing only ONE side and a couple totals...

How about this one... If I was a coach I would play line moves like you can't believe... Play one side before a major injury is released then play the other side after a big move... During the game if you have a chance to make it happen then you can do it... It might happen anyway..

Possibly is happening, If it is I think it is extremely rare.

No doubt that a sharp cookie that is able to keep it quiet, meaning no one else involved at all, is very judicious about using it and doesn't attempt to make a million bucks on a game, well then maybe and only maybe.

But, people that think many players and refs and what not are getting together and conspiring, that ain't happening.

[Willie Bee]

Not sure if you are being serious or joking with me...

I'm being serious. I have spent the last few weeks trying to get the names of those who received the e-mails and hoping to get some or even one of them to talk to me off the record at the very least. To date, no success.

I find it strange, and did from the beginning, that the San Antonio Express-News that broke this story has yet to include one comment or quote, on or off the record, by anyone on the receiving end. I have spoken about this with one of the columnists (not one who was part of the original 'investigation' or subsequent story). This is a writer I have correspnded with and spoken to in person in the past, and this time he seems very tight-lipped about it.

The reason I'm interested in this is to find out how much, if any, of this 'inside information' was used for gambling purposes. Now it would be easy to assume two reasons why none of this has come out already:

• The university -- my alma mater -- simply is out to protect its big time contributors, and/or;
  
• The info was indeed being used for gambling purposes, in which case the university (or someone) is out to protect the parties and the university's image.

But assumptions and truth are two horses of a different color.

LINK Let me know if that link doesn't work for you, Buddy. If it does, it's a report from the school about their investigation. It specifically addresses gambling, and lists the people who received the newsletter. Note that Franchione's wife and daughter are on the list. A few of the other names on that list have been passed along to me, but nobody is talking (at least to me).

It also addresses the guy who actually wrote the e-mails and discusses his involvement in 'play scripting' meetings.

At the bottom of the page are those outfits that have requested info about the whole issue, and if you know anything about Texas media outlets, the Dallas Morning News and Austin American Stateman should jump right out at you. I can assure you that if there was any information that would tie Franchione or any of the recipients to wagering, those two newspapers would be having a field day with the story(s).

Maybe Franchione and/or the people receiving the e-mail gambled their asses off. Perhaps there was information in some sort of code that said, in effect, "Fade the Aggies this week" or "If you can get us at +3½ or more, do it and I, Dennis Franchione, promise to cover." But so far, none of that info has come to light. And if you take the time to read through the e-mails as I and others have, I don't think you'll come away with the feeling that there was really much 'inside information' at all being exchanged.

I am an Aggie, proud and true, but I don't bleed maroon nor have I ever blindly towed the university line on matters like this. It's pretty clear that he violated his contract, violated certain NCAA rules and violated tax laws in this country. I'm as happy as a puppy with two peters that the son of a bitch is on his way out. I've got e-mails dating back to his hiring before the 2003 season that will show I was against him coming aboard from the get-go. So I'm not out to protect him, nor am I out to cover anything up from the university's end.

[BuddyBear]

Okay but what about that ending to the OK/TXAM game last year....were not you the least bit suspicious?

[Willie Bee]

No. The kick came with about 3½ minutes to go, not two minutes. Plenty of time, and with the home crowd behind them, to have gotten the ball back and then gone for a game-winning field goal.

[BuddyBear]

No. The kick came with about 3½ minutes to go, not two minutes. Plenty of time, and with the home crowd behind them, to have gotten the ball back and then gone for a game-winning field goal.

I disagree. I think DF was more concerned with the cover. Regardless of how much time was left and how many timeouts they had, TXAM had allowed almost 250 yds on the ground to OK. They hadn't been able to stop them and all it took was one first down to end the game. IMO DF would have been better served to go for it on 4th downa and if they fail they would have gotten good field position if they were able to stop them....DF blew that game but cashed the ticket for A&M backers and his clients....


DF is an idiot. He's more concerned with the spread of the game. Trust me. Did you not see the Baylor game this year? Come on man....throwing when you are up 17 with 2:00 left to go in your own territory?

Are/Were you a subscriber to his VIP newsletter WillieBee?

[Willie Bee]

DF blew that game but cashed the ticket for A&M backers and his clients....

You might be right, but I'll need more proof than what you've offered.

DF is an idiot.

Agreed.

Are/Were you a subscriber to his VIP newsletter WillieBee?

No, if so my name would be on that list at the link I provided.

[dave11486]

Just another reason to bet on Wisky this weekend. This sort of thought is not uncommon.

Buddy you can't actually believe this horseshit. I'm sure everyone will be watching for questionable calls and the Big Ten and the NCAA would never risk the "purity" of the game for such a stupid reason. This game will be under heavy review already, so nothing sneeky will go on in this game.

I'm sorry dude, but if you've thought of it, so have other people.

[SexyMit]

What about the LSU game where they went for the 2 point conversion to cover the spread already up 33..... Now I know the couch of LSU had money on that game and was pissed when they missed the conversion. I don't remember what game it was but I do remember that if they had converted the conversion they would have covered.

[PerfecTrader]

There is no doubt in my mind that games have been rigged and many more will be. Hell I was going to ASU and was friends and close neighbors with Benny which proved that and that was 10+ years ago. Anyone who thinks ALL sports are on the up and up is far past naive and mine as well tell us about gaming in the gum-drop forest. Not only are plenty of games a wee bit rigged, you have refs that just blow, which in my opinion is part of the fixing. The worst thing in my opinion about it is in the NFL and NBA the players make ridiculous $$ every game while in the poor NCAA you have people playin their hearts out and I have seen time and time and time again the course of athlethes lives altered in a way by the calls of a ref. I have seen without a shadow of a doubt 100+ WRONG(and I mean flat out)WRONG calls in football and basketball and the game goes on. Instant review has helped and is only proof of human errors we've been seeing for so many years. Refs make BAD calls all too often and to say NO sports games are fixed in any way is just retarded. That's like saying noone cares about the all mighty dolla. Keep it up Buddy, whether the game proves it or not, I'm with ya and unfortunately in this country $$ trumps everything

[dave11486]

Wow this Donaghy scandal is really ****ing with people's heads.

[PerfecTrader]

facts are facts and scandals occur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Silman

[dave11486]

You're right they do, but not as often as you think. And, especially not in front of everyone to see. To think this happens everyday is just idiotic because the people that do it are not that stupid.

[pavyracer]

Wisconsin does not need to fix the game to beat Michigan. They have good enough team to beat them on their own. No ref will get out alive from Madison if the game is a fix.

I'm putting my money on Wisconsin.

[PerfecTrader]

Agreed Wisonsin could win outright and Dave I'm not meaning I've felt there have been 100 fixed games I've seen I mean I've seen easily that many calls that I believe were incorrect. No I don't have reason enough to believe this game will be fixed I just believe that $$ is the root of Most evil and that it is seen more in sports than people are willing to believe as truth. Good luck to yall no matter what ya do

[BuddyBear]

fellows: I am not saying the game is fixed in any way. All i am saying is that given these unique circumstances it is probably something you want to factor in. That's all.

Nobody said the game is fixed 100%. All i implied was that the Big Ten has an interest in seeing Michigan win this game for the above reasons stated. Now that being the case, officials maybe slightly more inconsistent in their officiating.

I am hoping for a clean game personally.....but as a bettor you have to be very very conscious of situations where the potentional for shady things to happen could occur. This sets up as one.

Good luck to everyone this weekend....

[IWishIWasRich]

Let's look at it this way: There are about 30 non-calls in the average game. These are violations that COULD be called and are not. If they ignore the possible penalties on one team and call even half of these possibilities on the other team it would probably determine the game. I don't believe in these "conspiracies" but, just think, it could go that way. It will be interesting to watch how this game is called.

[greek]

when you talkin bowl money , youd better be thinkin money ---- aint that what citys and programs waiting for? bcs stands for : BUNCHA CASH SOON !!!!!!