Sakara vs Rivera

[jacktheknife]

Fine, if you be a good little boy and get out of the basement for a few hours, I'll let you have a reply to one of your overwrought points.

The "circling away" you're observing is a product of fighting guys who plan on taking him down. Rivera does not plan on taking him down.

I present witness 1A through 242,334F, people who actually have access to the James Irvin fight and item A, the notion that Irvin was planning on taking him down.

Has the jury reached a verdict?



Dismissed.

Now I want a 5,000 word outline by dinner time or no dessert or video games or unilateral declarations of pretend victory for you.

[Hannibal]

I justify my opinions and respond specifically to each of my opponent's points. That's the difference between me and him. That's the difference between someone who knows how to debate, and someone who doesn't.

If you think that anything I said is wrong, then why don't you prove it? If you can put forward a convincing, substantiated argument which discredits my points, I'll concede that I'm wrong. I don't think you can though.

Right again Ladle!

[Ladle]

Fine, if you be a good little boy and get out of the basement for a few hours, I'll let you have a reply to one of your overwrought points.

I present witness 1A through 242,334F, people who actually have access to the James Irvin fight and item A, the notion that Irvin was planning on taking him down.

Has the jury reached a verdict?



Dismissed.

Now I want a 5,000 word outline by dinner time or no dessert or video games or unilateral declarations of pretend victory for you.

Apparently you have some kind of mental problem which prevented you from seeing that Sakara came out throwing haymakers in that fight.

From the Sherdog play-by-play: Sakara is swinging for the fences, but Irvin is avoiding a flush impact.

There was no "circling away" by Sakara in that fight, and at no point did I suggest that Irvin planned on taking him down. That comment was clearly regarding the Leites and Weidman fights. How embarrassing for you.

So, that's one point out of about 20 you've tried to address, and you failed miserably. Care to try again, kid? How about the small matter of Sakara getting tagged several times by Joe Vedepo in a fight which lasted just over a minute? Where was the incessant "circling away" in that fight?



Yeah, I can spam smilies too. Their use is more appropriate in this instance though, given that you are a bit of a laughingstock.

Right again Ladle!

Well, at least you accept it, Hannibal. You stick to those platitudes in future.

[jacktheknife]

There was no "circling away" by Sakara in that fight,

So much for conceding to discredited points.

[Ladle]

So much for conceding to discredited points.

So much for actually discrediting a point, as opposed to re-imagining history.

So much for justifying that Sakara circled away against Vedepo.

So much for justifying a modicum of the shit you spout.

[Vrakas]

sakara will have to win this fight in order to better his salary

[jacktheknife]

Just sayin' it's gonna suck when you actually watch the fight, it's gonna suck worse when you realize I've got proof positive that you base your obsessive analysis of minute details on play-by-play summery...




forevvvvvver... and evvvvver... and evvvvvver.

[Ladle]

Just sayin' it's gonna suck when you actually watch the fight, it's gonna suck worse when you realize I've got proof positive that you base your obsessive analysis of minute details on play-by-play summery.




Forevvvvvver... and evvvvver... and evvvvvver.

It's spelt summary.

Also, I watched that event towards the end of last month, so chances are good that I remember it with more clarity than you do. I looked up the play-by-play to reinforce my point, and sure enough, they agreed that Sakara came out swinging for the fences. The only person who would disagree with that - and say that Sakara spent the majority of his time "circling away" - would be someone who's making shit up in an effort to support their obviously flawed argument. You're inventing things, just like a little kid on a rainy day.

[jacktheknife]

I watched it just as the topic came up, and don't worry, people will see for themselves. Sammury.

[Ladle]

I watched it just as the topic came up, and don't worry, people will see for themselves.

People will see for themselves that you're wrong, just like they can see for themselves that the other ten or so points you made were totally flawed (because you clearly couldn't justify a thing).

Sammury.

Yeah, come correct next time. Misspelling simple words reflects poorly on your intelligence.

[Chairib]

exactly
Rivera has weak submission defense. Sakara is a bjj black belt under nogs.

Sakara trained with the Nogiuera brothers for a couple of years when he was living in Brazil, but his belt promotion has mostly been under Roberto Almeida, a Cesar Gracie black belt. From what I understand the only exception was the black belt promotion which came from Conan Silveira. Who would have that Conan would be handing out black belts right now? Still trips me out to see him working the corner of ATT fights.

Anyways Sakara's bjj is okay, well his sports bjj is seems good enough, but he till doesn't grasp the concepts of bjj in MMA. His guardwork isn't that good, no wrist control, doesn't break his opponents posture, allowing his opponent to strike freely. That's why Weidman left him a bloody mess.

[Vaughany]

Rivera is training at Jackson's helping out Tim Kennedy currently

[koscheckbaby]

I think Kennedy helped Rivera for the Bisping fight. Little help that did him. LoL. Made Bisping and his mediocre takedowns look like GSP shots.

Man, both these guys suck. I know they'd kick my ass, but damn. Can you put together two shittier fighters with such long tenure? I guess, you could have thrown Ryan Jensen against one of these guys.

I like the fight to not to decision if the prop is fair on that. Both these guys have shit chins. Sakara isn't a wilter like Rivera though. Sakara showed me something lasting the 3 rounds with Weidman. Rivera had never shown any heart. Getting TKO'd by Bisping is proof of that.

[bjpenn85]

nick lentz also gave up after that illegal knee from oliveira, and nick lentz have no quit in him. I think if youre that hurt everybody quits. Rivera always quit so thats that, but that shot bisping gave him may turn all fighters to quitters, right?

[Ladle]

I just re-watched Sakara/Irvin, and I now find it even more bizarre that someone would look to that fight as proof that Sakara no longer engages in brawls. Irvin threw the occasional leg kick and attempted to cover up pretty much every time Sakara engaged, as opposed to firing any counters. How are you supposed to brawl with a guy who continually attempts to defend, and whose strikes are 90% leg kicks? You can't.

Sakara did some circling, but anyone who cites this as an "improvement" is talking nonsense; go watch the Chris Leben fight and you'll see that he did exactly the same kind of circling throughout the entire fight. Sakara still fights how he fought three years ago, and anyone who says otherwise is talking shit. Also, it's worth noting that Sakara was just circling around a static Irvin; it wasn't like he was circling away from any strikes. In fact, every time Irvin came forward with punches, Sakara - once again - did what he's always done: he backed straight up. McFedries and Leben backed him up with strikes repeatedly, but whereas Irvin immediately stopped putting the pressure on after backing him up, McFedries and Leben carried on swinging - and that was when those fights became brawls. Essentially, if you put the pressure on Sakara, you can turn it into a brawl. He doesn't "circle away" from any strikes. He backs up, and then trades. Doesn't bode well for you when you've got a woeful chin.

nick lentz also gave up after that illegal knee from oliveira, and nick lentz have no quit in him. I think if youre that hurt everybody quits. Rivera always quit so thats that, but that shot bisping gave him may turn all fighters to quitters, right?

I don't think so man. Think about what happened with knees in Pride. Just look to heath Herring's old fights: how many knees did he have to land before he knocked someone out? Think about what his fight with Iouri Kotchkine looked like, where Herring battered him with about 500 knees to the head from north-south. If knees were truly that effective, then Pride would have been an absolute slaughterhouse.

[bjpenn85]

I havent seen the fights you are talking about. You may have a point. I talked about a knee to the face, which is different from a knee to the top of the scull? if the fighter is not ready to absorb the impact, the shot is much worse to take, as in the rivera bisping fight, right? We see wars in mma all the time, and we see one straight punch that instantly send people to the canvas. I know there was a lot of knees in pride, but didnt they KO people, even from the weird angles they were thrown?

A knee to the ******* face will physically logically have a greater impact than a punch and therefor most times **** people more often. Its not only because it is a knee a vastly larger structure than an elbow or a hand, its the position and the momentum the fighters are able to deliver if we are talkin about oliveiras and bispings knee .when michael bisping stands right in front of rivera he is in balance with his whole body, rather than a clumsy north to south position, that requires more balance and all that.

[Ladle]

I havent seen the fights you are talking about. You may have a point. I talked about a knee to the face, which is different from a knee to the top of the scull? if the fighter is not ready to absorb the impact, the shot is much worse to take, as in the rivera bisping fight, right? We see wars in mma all the time, and we see one straight punch that instantly send people to the canvas. I know there was a lot of knees in pride, but didnt they KO people, even from the weird angles they were thrown?

A knee to the ******* face will physically logically have a greater impact than a punch and therefor most times **** people more often. Its not only because it is a knee a vastly larger structure than an elbow or a hand, its the position and the momentum the fighters are able to deliver if we are talkin about oliveiras and bispings knee .when michael bisping stands right in front of rivera he is in balance with his whole body, rather than a clumsy north to south position, that requires more balance and all that.

I believe Bisping hit Rivera in the forehead with that knee.

Anyway, that Heath Herring fight was just one example. Rivera might well have been rocked by that knee, but the point I'm making is that knee strikes on the ground - in general - aren't these super devastating blows that you'd think they were if you watched a UFC event. If they were truly that lethal, guys would have been dropping like flies left, right and centre in Pride.

[jacktheknife]

Sarmmury.

[Ladle]

Sarmmury.

What a convincing and coherent rebuttal. Expected no less from you, Jacky boy.

[jacktheknife]

There was no "circling away" by Sakara in that fight,

Sakara did some circling

Sermanary.

[Ladle]

Sermanary.

He circled around a static Irvin, in different directions on different occasions, just like he's done with his opponents in his other fights where he's ended up getting lamped. He didn't circle away from a damn thing. In fact, he backed up every time Irvin threw a punch, like he always does.

Now, how about addressing the other numerous points? How about justifying your claim that Sakara is a different fighter after his brawl with Leben, despite the fact that his fighting style has changed in no discernible way since that fight?

You put the pressure on Sakara, you back him up. You keep up the pressure, it turns ugly. You land a shot on Sakara's chin in an exchange, he goes to sleep. That's the way it's always been, and there's no evidence I can see which suggests that anything has changed.

*Anticipates Jack's inappropriate dancing smiley and self-mocking regarding his own failure to spell simple words*

[jacktheknife]

I just re-watched Sakara/Irvin

Sakara did some circling,

go watch the Chris Leben fight and you'll see that he did exactly the same kind of circling throughout the entire fight

The "circling away" you're observing is a product of fighting guys who plan on taking him down.

Center. <) usa! usa!

[Ladle]

Congratulations. You rejected my invitation to prove your point (because you clearly can't), and instead you posted a series of quotes which proved absolutely nothing.

Apparently you're a little slow.

Read this carefully. It will help you understand:

He circled around a static Irvin, in different directions on different occasions, just like he's done with his opponents in his other fights where he's ended up getting lamped. He didn't circle away from a damn thing. In fact, he backed up every time Irvin threw a punch, like he always does.

Similarly, Sakara circled around Chris Leben, and ended up getting lamped. He didn't circle away from strikes, and that's what led to him getting lamped. He kept backing straight up when Leben threw, Leben kept coming forward, and then Sakara got his head knocked off.

Now, you've got three options: 1) Shut the **** up. 2) Actually attempt to justify the bullshit you spout (you'll be unsuccessful, but trying is what counts). 3) Continue to mindlessly quote random parts of my post which highlight nothing other than your lack of comprehension skills.

So... tell me again how Sakara is a different fighter after the Leben fight. Tell me how that different fighter got tagged several times by Joe Vedepo.

[jacktheknife]

The "circling away" you're observing is a product of fighting guys who plan on taking him down.

[Ladle]

Another meaningless quote? Another smiley? Your trolling is getting so prosaic.

Sakara actually DID circle away against Leites and Weidman. He was able to stuff some of their takedowns against the cage, then literally circle away from them, and reset. Contrast that with just meandering around a static opponent - in either direction - and then backing up when they throw punches at you. Apparently it's a concept which you just can't wrap your head around.

Am I just gonna keep shooting you down like this indefinitely?

And, of course, once again you reject my invitation to defend your laughable claims. I'm trying to help you look like less of a retard here, but you turn me down every time. Well, you'll still look like a retard trying to justify those claims. But at least you'll be a retard with some balls.

[jacktheknife]

He didn't circle away from a damn thing.

Nope. Just took another look. Sorry for almost taking the word of a guy who cares less about learning then he does about

[Ladle]

Nope. Just took another look. Sorry for almost taking the word of a guy who cares less about learning then he does about

Except you can't even tell me what he was circling away from. It certainly wasn't the strikes of Irvin, or even the potential strikes, because he was circling in both directions. You're failing to justify even the most minute aspect of your argument. I can't imagine how hilariously you'd fail if you actually tried to substantiate some of the larger - and more ridiculous - claims. The point you were making with the "circling away" business is that Sakara has changed since his days of fighting Leben... even though he still fights identically. I'd love to hear how you support that claim. I'm sure it'd be very funny.

Also, clearly you're the one who doesn't care about learning. I can tell you exactly where you're going wrong in thinking that Sakara is a different and better fighter after the Leben fight (which is the overarching point here). I can tell you exactly where you're going wrong with almost everything you said in your initial posts. But you cower away whenever I invite you to explain your reasoning, and instead choose to post random images, quotes and smilies, like some kind of mentally impaired child. Unfortunately, all of these "amusing" little antics fail to disguise your absolute lack of debating ability. Carry on learning, kiddo.

[jacktheknife]

Ain't no debate, son. Cards are on the table. People that'll watch it will. People that'll waste their life writing paragraph after paragraph fighting pretend battles will. People who lie, get caught, and keep trying to obfuscate it, can't be trusted to be sincere about anything.

[Ladle]

Ain't no debate, son.

I challenged your opinions and you ran. That's why there's no debate. You can't defend your opinions. I'd rather write out some paragraphs than be unable to defend my opinions. Must be a sorry existence you lead.

People who lie, get caught, and keep trying to obfuscate it, can't be trusted to be sincere about anything.

Get caught? Lol. I justified everything I've said, and you couldn't discredit a single sentence of it. You justified nada.

And, for the record, you're the liar. You grossly misrepresented what I said in an effort to make a clever point, and then denied it (I use the word clever very loosely). I responded and exposed your opinions as stupid and flawed. You realised your opinions were stupid and flawed, and have been dodging defending those opinions ever since by focusing so intently on something which isn't even relevant to the thread.

I mean, you still can't tell me how Sakara has changed his fighting style since fighting Leben, and I've asked you about ten times to do so. You're a little bitch, basically. You just keep running.

Honestly, it's the most pathetic, laughable display I've seen from a poster since jesushatesnubs bet the farm on Daniel Straus.

[Chairib]

I think Kennedy helped Rivera for the Bisping fight. Little help that did him. LoL. Made Bisping and his mediocre takedowns look like GSP shots.

Man, both these guys suck. I know they'd kick my ass, but damn. Can you put together two shittier fighters with such long tenure? I guess, you could have thrown Ryan Jensen against one of these guys.

I like the fight to not to decision if the prop is fair on that. Both these guys have shit chins. Sakara isn't a wilter like Rivera though. Sakara showed me something lasting the 3 rounds with Weidman. Rivera had never shown any heart. Getting TKO'd by Bisping is proof of that.

wow

[sirchadwick1]

I think Kennedy helped Rivera for the Bisping fight. Little help that did him. LoL. Made Bisping and his mediocre takedowns look like GSP shots.

Man, both these guys suck. I know they'd kick my ass, but damn. Can you put together two shittier fighters with such long tenure? I guess, you could have thrown Ryan Jensen against one of these guys.

I like the fight to not to decision if the prop is fair on that. Both these guys have shit chins. Sakara isn't a wilter like Rivera though. Sakara showed me something lasting the 3 rounds with Weidman. Rivera had never shown any heart. Getting TKO'd by Bisping is proof of that.

So let me get this straight. Sakara... who hasn't been KO'd ever in his entire career has a shit chin? He was TKO'd over 3 years ago and was TKO'd 3x in his entire career. Hmm... guess that means Rampage has a shit chin also. And Rivera has only been TKO'd 4x in his 10 yr career and KO'd once. I've seen the man take some pretty big shots and keep going. Bisping gave him a cheap shot to win... it wasn't anything spectacular. In this situation, I'd much rather take the younger more technical fighter in Legionarius.

[koscheckbaby]

Sakara's chin is up for debate? Seriously. Maybe it's not glass, but he usually goes down for the count when he gets hit well. Remember that fight with McFedries? He was lighting McFedries up, took one shot, and jumped on his back.

[Hannibal]

Mcfedries has one of the biggest punches at his weight..

[Ladle]

So let me get this straight. Sakara... who hasn't been KO'd ever in his entire career has a shit chin? He was TKO'd over 3 years ago and was TKO'd 3x in his entire career. Hmm... guess that means Rampage has a shit chin also. And Rivera has only been TKO'd 4x in his 10 yr career and KO'd once. I've seen the man take some pretty big shots and keep going. Bisping gave him a cheap shot to win... it wasn't anything spectacular. In this situation, I'd much rather take the younger more technical fighter in Legionarius.

The Rampage comparison isn't fair bro. Rampage has always able to take an incredible amount of punishment before getting finished, whereas Sakara was once put out with a punch that looked like it barely even landed.

Sakara's chin is up for debate? Seriously. Maybe it's not glass, but he usually goes down for the count when he gets hit well. Remember that fight with McFedries? He was lighting McFedries up, took one shot, and jumped on his back.

Yeah, and it doesn't even need to be a good lick to put him down (which was the case against McFedries). Also, even though he took some shots from Leben in the clinch, the punch which actually dropped him looked like a glancing blow. He doesn't have a good chin.

Mcfedries has one of the biggest punches at his weight..

Take a look at the punch McFedries dropped him with, and you'll understand why people are very skeptical of Sakara's chin.

[sirchadwick1]

Mcfedries has one of the biggest punches at his weight..

Yep, and Leben and Anderson... well, I don't have to say much about the power they put out.