BJ Penn Vs Jon Fitch UFC 127 Sydney, Australia

syn^ · 11-24-10, 05:59 PM

Personally I think its a complete joke that fitch isn't the #1 contender right now. Its arguable that he's been more dominant at 170lbs then GSP has. I like fitch's fight style, his immense grappling knowledge makes him impossible to beat on the ground. Also his takedowns are more technically sound compared to GSP's takedowns which are just dependent on his explosion abilities. It's a shame that Dana caters to his red neck crowds more then actual mma fans. Fitch will dominate BJ simply because his style overwhelms a striker like BJ.

Chairib · 11-24-10, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by syn^

Personally I think its a complete joke that fitch isn't the #1 contender right now. Its arguable that he's been more dominant at 170lbs then GSP has. I like fitch's fight style, his immense grappling knowledge makes him impossible to beat on the ground. Also his takedowns are more technically sound compared to GSP's takedowns which are just dependent on his explosion abilities. It's a shame that Dana caters to his red neck crowds more then actual mma fans. Fitch will dominate BJ simply because his style overwhelms a striker like BJ.

Which are just dependent on explosion abilities? You literally made me laugh out loud.

syn^ · 11-24-10, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Chairib

Which are just dependent on explosion abilities? You literally made me laugh out loud.

? Point out the last time GSP used a wrestling skill or judo throw to get his opponent down? He's the best at setting up takedowns don't get me wrong... but once its there all he does is explode into the takedown. Prove me wrong son.

Poppa Catfish · 11-24-10, 10:08 PM

Eccocide · 11-24-10, 10:22 PM

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Eccocide · 11-24-10, 10:24 PM

Eccocide · 11-24-10, 10:25 PM

Eccocide · 11-24-10, 10:30 PM

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lasker · 11-24-10, 10:34 PM

syn^ · 11-24-10, 10:36 PM

ok I went overboard with my statement

Fitch should still be #1 contender right now.

stefan084 · 11-24-10, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by GoldenYAK

Jeez calm down dude I didn't realize you had such a huge crush on BJ or I wouldn't have called it how it is. Also there are plenty of guys at 155 that would beat BJ. Who the **** did BJ even beat at 155? Joe daddy,sherk,kenflo,diego.....all tier 2 or 3 lightweights. BJ was the champ when Frankie and Maynard were on the undercard, but in reality both of them could have beat BJ then and certainly now. Why did he even go up to 170 in the first place? If he thinks he is such a great fighter why not stay at 155 and prove it. As soon as he fought one of the new breed of lightweights(Frankie) he got his shit pushed in(twice) and ran off to 170. The reason BJ fights at 170 is so when he loses he has an excuse, and because joe silva knows he isn't that good anymore, but BJ is a cash cow so they need to do all they can to protect his record.

BJ thinks he is gods gift to mma, but Fitch will put that ego back in check and send him packing back to 155. Then, as long as he doesn't get a another gift powder puff matchup, he will lose at 155 and his career will be over. I can't wait.

kenflo,diego,sherk-all the #1 contenders at the time of the fights.went up to 170 to take title from hughes the first time when hughes was dominating the 170lb weight class.he went up this last time to settle an old grudge match. bj said he is going back to lightweight to try to get his title back. its evident you have never trained jiu-jitsu/stand-up etc. because I think you would have a tough time saying BJ isn't a great fighter if you actually knew anything about MMA. I don't personally care for GSP but I would be stupid and disrespectful to say he isn't a great fighter. Anyone who has ever made the UFC has accomplished something you never will but you sit on your sofa every UFC and tell your friends which fighters suck I'm sure. Have some respect for these guys because you sound like a little punk.

jin2daj · 11-25-10, 02:48 AM

i think fitch handled alves just as well as gsp.

i think he can handle bj just as well too.

cky312 · 11-25-10, 03:07 AM

I'm sure the regulars notice this as well, sadly there is a general influx of trolls in the MMA section of SBR lately, too bad, since this was one of the better sub-forums. Back in the day when most comments actually contributed to the thread, where opinions were properly articulated with proof or reasoning, without extreme prejudice or complete lack of knowledge in the actual topic.

sigh

Originally posted by jin2daj

i think fitch handled alves just as well as gsp.

i think he can handle bj just as well too.

Agree, it's pretty clear to this point in BJ's career that his kryptonite are speed (Edgar) and size (GSP). Fitch, prior to Shields joining UFC, Fitch was considered bar none the second best welterweight in the division. Knowing his bread and butter top control and relative lack of submission threats he's been in, I don't think BJ can tap him that easily. Though Fitch is susceptible to getting caught in the stand up (GSP, Pierce IIRC), I don't think BJ can finish Fitch before he regains composure and finishes the takedown, wash, rinse, repeat that for three rounds for a signature Jon Fitch victory.

Pratik · 11-25-10, 03:42 AM

Fitch will snorlax himself to the win again. easy money hopefully lines favor penn and yeah agreed with the decision prop!

omalley21 · 11-25-10, 01:04 PM

Alves was not even close to 100% in the 2nd fight with Fitch. Fitch is a solid fighter but he is overrated, and Penn is currently being underrated. Fitch isn't GSP. He's a wrestler without explosive athletic ability. He's actually quite one dimensional as well. BJ will stick and move, stuff his takedowns, and light fitch up on the feet. Fitch is slow.

BJ has phenomenal takedown defense. Fitch will not take him down at will. BJ struggles with athletes, not grinders.

Don't get caught speeding on Fitch.

MRDOG · 11-25-10, 02:09 PM

Tough one to call...IMO , Fitch will do what Fitch does and grind out a win or B.J. will stop the take down and win it standing.

stefan084 · 11-25-10, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by omalley21

Alves was not even close to 100% in the 2nd fight with Fitch. Fitch is a solid fighter but he is overrated, and Penn is currently being underrated. Fitch isn't GSP. He's a wrestler without explosive athletic ability. He's actually quite one dimensional as well. BJ will stick and move, stuff his takedowns, and light fitch up on the feet. Fitch is slow.

BJ has phenomenal takedown defense. Fitch will not take him down at will. BJ struggles with athletes, not grinders.

Don't get caught speeding on Fitch.

thats interesting that you say that because it is the reason I saw BJ winning the Hughes fight. BJ has problems with the explosive takedowns(ex. Edgar,GSP) but if he sees them coming he will usually stuff them even against a bigger oppenent,which is why I thought Hughes would struggle to get BJ to the ground. One would think Fitch would be too big for BJ but I don't know if he has the explosiveness of GSP etc. If BJs conditioning is not up to par I think he will be winning the stand-up at first but get worn out by the third. I will be curious to see if BJ adds any quality weight between now and fight time.

omalley21 · 11-25-10, 08:10 PM

Its funny people say this is the worst matchup at ww for BJ (besides GSP). I couldn't disagree more. I think its the worst matchup at ww for Fitch besides GSP. If Fitch cant take you down. He's in trouble. He can't take BJ down. He's in trouble. I was gonna unload on Ellenberger to beat Fitch as well.

GoldenYAK · 11-25-10, 10:05 PM

BJ is a decent fighter, but he just doesn't have what it take to compete with the best anymore. Its not his lack of skill, its the fact that he has no heart. Fitch is 3rd best ww in the world, BJ may not even be a top 5 lw. Easy win for Fitch.

Poppa Catfish · 11-25-10, 10:10 PM

Takes a hell of a lot of heart to step into the cage, I'm sure you know that though ...

JediMind87 · 11-25-10, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Poppa Catfish

Takes a hell of a lot of heart to step into the cage, I'm sure you know that though ...

Sure it does but some fighters have a lot more heart than others.BJ doesn't have half the heart Fitch has and add that with a big size advantage=Fitch wins.

Poppa Catfish · 11-25-10, 10:43 PM

I believe Fitch will win my man, but the other chap was saying BJ had no heart; which is utter bullshit.

JediMind87 · 11-25-10, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Poppa Catfish

I believe Fitch will win my man, but the other chap was saying BJ had no heart; which is utter bullshit.

I understand and agree.

JediMind87 · 11-25-10, 11:45 PM

Just thought i'd share these stats:BJ Penn 80% TDD (Fightmetric) Fitch 58% Successful TD

Diego Sanchez - 0/27

Kenny Florian - 0/10

Georges St. Pierre II - 4/7
Sean Sherk - 0/2

Stevenson - no attempt

Pulver - no attempt

Matt Hughes II - 1/8

Georges St. Pierre - 4/5

Renzo Gracie - 1/6

Lyoto Machida - 3/5

Rodrigo Gracie - 0/1

Dwayne Ludwig - no attempt

Matt Hughes I - 0/1

Takanori Gomi - 2/3

Caol Uno - 8/9

Matt Serra - 1/16

Paul Creighton - 3/8

Jens Pulver I - 1/1

Caol Uno I - no attempt

Din Thomas - 1/1

Joey Gilbert - 0/1

Cant find the Edgar 1 & 2 stats.

Vaughany · 11-26-10, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by jin2daj

i think fitch handled alves just as well as gsp.

i think he can handle bj just as well too.

And I think Syn^ just got handled even worst!

sundin4prez · 11-26-10, 06:08 AM

fitch for the win here

jin2daj · 11-26-10, 07:26 AM

cant wait to see the line. i see money coming in on both sides so there good movement and hopefully good spots to look for win/win situations.

orlandito · 11-26-10, 08:00 AM

Matt Hughes II - 1/8

stefan084 · 11-26-10, 03:58 PM

anything under -200 for fitch would be good value I would think,although a decision prop would be the best.Love BJ but just think the size difference will be too much. I hope I'm wrong though

Vrakas · 11-26-10, 06:25 PM

bj needs to build up in size.if he beats fitch then he should be ready for the 170ib champion.

lasker · 11-26-10, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Vrakas

bj needs to build up in size.if he beats fitch then he should be ready for the 170ib champion.

He'll never be ready for GSP.

Chairib · 11-26-10, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by syn^

ok I went overboard with my statement

Fitch should still be #1 contender right now.

I wouldn't say that you went overboard. That would imply that you had at the very least a basic understanding of what takedowns are. Additionally, it would have helped to have actually watched some fights of the two fighters in the discussion.

bogbat · 11-29-10, 03:46 PM

Fitch via decision will be a good bet like always.

Vaughany · 11-29-10, 03:58 PM

Ruediger vs Taylor added.

stefan084 · 11-29-10, 06:34 PM

looks like a fun card