Chris Weidman is the best striker Anderson has ever fought...

Vaughany · 06-17-13, 05:38 PM

Agreed. Also highlights the lack of high-level strikers in MMA in general though!

MD · 06-17-13, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Agreed. Also highlights the lack of high-level strikers in MMA in general though!

Especially at the higher weight classes. Just goes to show why people were so excited for Aldo vs Pettis.

Anderson could knock out a lot of high level strikers, but he hasn't gotten the chance to, because he largely fights grapplers. Forrest Griffin is one of the best strikers he's fought. I wish I were trolling.

Even at 205, which is historically one of the deepest divisions, guys like Rashad are considered near the top of the division on the feet.

Vaughany · 06-17-13, 05:47 PM

PunisherIND · 06-17-13, 05:48 PM

You think weidman can keep the striking game competitive?

Sacrelicious · 06-17-13, 05:51 PM

I still do not think most people appreciate just how good Weidman is, or how fast he has shown improvement with every fight.

MD · 06-17-13, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by PunisherIND

You think weidman can keep the striking game competitive?

Maybe a little bit. It depends on how he approaches it. Anderson isn't a hard guy to game-plan for, but the problem is that the skills that he uses almost exclusively aren't the only skills that he has. He really doesn't use much variety in his main striking game, but he has so much that he doesn't use, and he adapts so well. If you could neutralize GSP's main striking weapons, he wouldn't have much else on the feet. If you neutralize Anderson's leg kicks and distance game, he'll have a dozen other weapons to throw at you. The second Franklin fight was proof of that. Anderson had adjustments to Franklin's adjustments. Franklin is like a much less talented version of Weidman on the feet, so it's an important fight to look at.

I will say this: if he and his coaches come up with the right game plan, it's possible that he could beat Silva on the feet. Unlikely? Sure, but he could. He's never going to beat Anderson in a kickboxing match, but GSP wouldn't beat Thiago Alves in a kickboxing match either. The fear of the takedown can change a striking match dramatically.

I think his striking is most important in the context of setting up his shot, though. I doubt he's stupid enough to try and out-strike Silva and ignore his grappling for the duration of the fight. In the context of grappling-to-striking transitions, he's legitimately brilliant, even in this stage of his career.

raag · 06-17-13, 05:54 PM

I need to go back and actually watch the Weidman vs. Sakara fight. From looking at the stats, it makes me question some of the Weidman hype when I see that he had 3 takedowns stuffed and that he didn't finish Sakara.

I have a tough time getting an actual grip on Weidman's performance because he didn't looks amazing against Maia... but that was on 11 days notice and he has a LOT to cut. And he did look stellar against Munoz... but Munoz had a broken foot going into that fight and reportedly was mentally all over the place.

Also interested to see how he landed his TDs against Maia as it'll present some different issues for him taking down a Southpaw like Anderson.

I think your point on his fight IQ is very salient and something I hadn't considered before. My biggest question mark on Weidman was his ability to do the Chael-style thing of pressuring Anderson VERY aggressively. If he has the mental fortitude to constantly push forward and look for TDs, while maintaining a good pace for 5 rounds, the fight becomes a lot more winnable for Weidman.

MD · 06-17-13, 05:56 PM

He had broken ribs in the Sakara fight and took it on short notice. It was an incredible performance when you factor that in.

MD · 06-17-13, 06:04 PM

Also, something that I realized recently, which is an incredible testament to Anderson as a fighter, is that in his last nine fights, he only has two knockouts due to punches, one over Okami and the other over Griffin. His other knockouts started with knees or kicks. Unreal.

JustinOpinion · 06-17-13, 06:09 PM

On that note, what do you think of the possibility of Anderson not doing a whole lot, not to Maia extents but certainly waiting on Weidman, ensuring he avoids the clinch and forcing Chris to shoot ... straight into a knee of death.

mirinquads · 06-17-13, 06:17 PM

Yep, Pettis vs Aldo though... sigh

Beelzebubzy · 06-17-13, 06:20 PM

What about k1 Maia or Chael who dropped him?

James Irvin FTw

MD · 06-17-13, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by JustinOpinion

On that note, what do you think of the possibility of Anderson not doing a whole lot, not to Maia extents but certainly waiting on Weidman, ensuring he avoids the clinch and forcing Chris to shoot ... straight into a knee of death.

It's hard to catch a good wrestler with a knee when he's shooting in for a double-leg. It's not a tactic that's used often by top strikers when it comes to stopping takedowns, and there's a reason for that. I absolutely expect Anderson not to do much though. One of the reasons this fight is so interesting is because Weidman is bigger and longer than Anderson. If he were to spend his whole camp drilling striking and do very little wrestling (something I wouldn't be surprised if he did), he could stick Anderson on the end of his jab and frustrate him. In reality, only a few striking techniques he could drill would be useful against Silva, so he could improve massively by just practising a couple of things constantly. Anderson always fights like the longer, taller guy, it's one of many areas Weidman could try to exploit. Very interesting fight.

Beelzebubzy · 06-17-13, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by MD

Also, something that I realized recently, which is an incredible testament to Anderson as a fighter, is that in his last nine fights, he only has two knockouts due to punches, one over Okami and the other over Griffin. His other knockouts started with knees or kicks. Unreal.

Irvin

MD · 06-17-13, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Beelzebubzy

Irvin

Ten fights ago.

MD · 06-17-13, 07:10 PM

Also, I will say that I think Weidman has to use his striking if he wants to beat Silva. Shooting double legs with no set-up will not be enough to beat Anderson, and he knows it. He'll need to strike with Anderson, and he'll need to do a good job of it.

more_betterness · 06-17-13, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by MD

Also, I will say that I think Weidman has to use his striking if he wants to beat Silva. Shooting double legs with no set-up will not be enough to beat Anderson, and he knows it. He'll need to strike with Anderson, and he'll need to do a good job of it.

I agree that he definitely has the capability to do just that.. Like you said earlier his understanding of how to meld his striking and wrestling and the flow between each facet of the mma game is some of the best I've seen, which is incredible at this early stage of his career. Hopefully that ability continues when Anderson is the one firing back.

MD · 06-17-13, 07:54 PM

^ Hopefully indeed. He also seems to understand range very well. His head movement and timing is incredible for a guy with as little experience as he has. He did a great job of understanding how much range was between himself and Maia, then attacking, and using the range to move his upper body backwards out of the way of Maia's counters.

GunShard · 06-17-13, 09:18 PM

You made a strong argument for Weidman to win this fight.

I believe it's his ground game that will help him more than his striking game though.

MD · 06-17-13, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by GunShard

You made a strong argument for Weidman to win this fight.

I believe it's his ground game that will help him more than his striking game though.

Absolutely. I don't think he'll get it to the ground consistently unless he uses his striking effectively, though. He'll need a very well-rounded game to beat Silva.

Rubber Guard · 06-17-13, 11:38 PM

I respect your opinion and all. And perhaps Weidman is the best striker Anderson has faced (I don't agree, but we will find out). But against who can you get this conclusion? Did you get it in the craptastic Maia fight, a very below average striker? Or the Munoz fight, a poor mans Matt Hamill? Or was it the Sakara (the only even respectable striker he has fought in the UFC) who was on his back the whole time? Bonger? Lawler? Yes, he looked VERY good vs. Munoz. He may of slipped a few punches from an out of shape, short, wrestler. But what does that really mean?

With these younger/fighters with minimal fights you never know. He could be rapidly improving at a rate you can't measure on previous fights. But having a few good striking exchanges vs. below...maybe well below average strikers doesn't tell me much in terms of what he can do vs. Anderson Silva. A guy like Okami would have boxed up Maia or Munoz in a standing contest as well.

How he transitioned into TDs from strikes vs. Munoz says what? Munoz is a flat footed, non-athletic, manlet. Anderson is a often moving, quick, athletic, dangerous striking spider monkey. Munoz as a wrestler sat and figured he could maybe stuff some, or other times Weidman was so much quicker than Munoz that he got in so deep and Munoz couldn't even put up resistance. A little different task vs. a guy that can move better than anyone in the division.

Striking is almost a non-factor to me. If he stands for a bit or gets too confident, Anderson will pounce and time something. He needs to make his strikes short and too the point in terms of setting up TDs.

MD · 06-17-13, 11:43 PM

Who has Anderson looked impressive against on the feet? He got dropped by a wrestler in Chael, and knocked out Forrest Griffin? His best knockouts against strikers are Franklin and Belfort. Not exactly a murderer's row.

I know Anderson's a fantastic striker because I evaluate his skills, and he's displayed excellent skills. Weidman isn't fighting world-beaters on the feet, but he's shown very skilled striking and a lot of discipline.

Rubber Guard · 06-17-13, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by MD

Who has Anderson looked impressive against on the feet? He got dropped by a wrestler in Chael, and knocked out Forrest Griffin? His best knockouts against strikers are Franklin and Belfort. Not exactly a murderer's row.

I know Anderson's a fantastic striker because I evaluate his skills, and he's displayed excellent skills. Weidman isn't fighting world-beaters on the feet, but he's shown very skilled striking and a lot of discipline.

I have seen him reaching a lot. I see him having his head in bad positions. Mostly because he could vs. those bad strikers. But if he does anything like that vs. Anderson....he's toast.

MD · 06-17-13, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Rubber Guard

I have seen him reaching a lot. I see him having his head in bad positions. Mostly because he could vs. those bad strikers. But if he does anything like that vs. Anderson....he's toast.

Every striker is making mistakes constantly. It's how striking works, especially in MMA. Even Anderson makes a lot of mistakes. Weidman actually has pretty great head movement, too, all things considered.

mirinquads · 06-18-13, 12:42 AM

Pettis vs Aldo but

Anderson is still on so much of a higher level that I doubt it will be close at all on the feet, unless he really keeps mixing in the takedown and uses range really well.

I really don't think it would be smart of Wiedman to clinch too much with Anderson. Anderson knows he has to finish Wiedman quick and his clinch is like a meatgrinder.

mirinquads · 06-18-13, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by GunShard

You made a strong argument for Weidman to win this fight.

I believe it's his ground game that will help him more than his striking game though.

lol

Vaughany · 06-18-13, 01:56 AM

Hana

bjpenn85 · 06-18-13, 04:53 AM

He also took Uriah Hall on short notice. This will probably be one of few fights he actually has a full training camp. THE MAN IS A BEAST.

Vaughany · 06-18-13, 06:18 AM

Just to play devil's advocate, should bear in mind that Munoz was in horrible shape for that fight though. He had a stress fracture to the foot and was fat as fuuck! Maia was also ill in the fight against Weidman.

Crassus · 06-18-13, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Just to play devil's advocate, should bear in mind that Munoz was in horrible shape for that fight though. He had a stress fracture to the foot and was fat as fuuck! Maia was also ill in the fight against Weidman.

Munoz was also looking for takedowns as well iirc, so most of the punches were just to close distance for the shot.

GunShard · 06-20-13, 01:26 AM

After watching at the past fight footage of both Silva and Weidman.

Anderson Silva will defeat Chris Weidman.

Weidman's biggest weakness is his Cardio.

Watch the 3rd round of this Weidman vs Maia fight. Both fighters are gassed out.

5 rounds against Anderson Silva. When Weidman gasses out in the 3rd round.

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MD · 06-20-13, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by GunShard

After watching at the past fight footage of both Silva and Weidman.

Anderson Silva will defeat Chris Weidman.

Weidman's biggest weakness is his Cardio.

Watch the 3rd round of this Weidman vs Maia fight. Both fighters are gassed out.

5 rounds against Anderson Silva. When Weidman gasses out in the 3rd round.

http://mmaversus.com/2012/01/29/demi...eo-ufc-on-fox/

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but it's well known (and mentioned in the fight, by Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg, repeatedly) that Weidman took that fight on very short notice and had a hellish weight cut. He cut 32 lbs in 10 days.

GunShard · 06-20-13, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by MD

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but it's well known (and mentioned in the fight, by Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg, repeatedly) that Weidman took that fight on very short notice and had a hellish weight cut. He cut 32 lbs in 10 days.

Ok, let's say this factor doesn't apply to this fight.

I still believe Silva still has the striking advantage and stand up game.

For Weidman to win this, he has to constantly attempt takedowns and use his ground game to win this fight.
Sonnen proved this winning strategy against Silva in their first fight and was very close to defeating Silva.

MD · 06-20-13, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by GunShard

Ok, let's say this factor doesn't apply to this fight.

I still believe Silva still has the striking advantage and stand up game.

For Weidman to win this, he has to constantly attempt takedowns and use his ground game to win this fight.
Sonnen proved this winning strategy against Silva in their first fight and was very close to defeating Silva.

I'm shocked I have to say this, but I don't think anyone in their right mind is claiming that Weidman is a better striker than Silva.

That said, you're wrong about how he can win. If he doesn't use his strikes to set up his shots, he won't be able to take Anderson down consistently. Sonnen was able to take Anderson down in their first fight because he had no respect for Anderson's stand up, and repeatedly exchanged with him aggressively on the feet. No wrestler can beat Anderson Silva with any degree of regularity, I believe that whole-heartedly. A much larger, 205 lbs version of Jordan Burroughs couldn't beat Anderson Silva, and the reason for this is that shooting for double legs with no set up simply cannot work against a guy with Silva's mastery of distance and timing unless he makes some significant mistakes. It will take a true mixed martial artist to defeat Anderson. If Weidman beats Silva, there's a good chance he'll get the better of Silva on the feet at least a few times. He won't be taking Silva down by just shooting over and over again, and that's not Weidman's game, anyway. He almost always sets up his shots, the Munoz fight and Maia fights are great proof of that.