ufc on fx 8: belfort vs rockhold (5.18.13)

[MD]

Yet you capped Rockhold at -230? What chance did you have Belfort landing a kick that led to a KO? He proved to be more versatile than you thought really. What method did you give Rockhold a good chance at carrying out? He isn't really any better of a grappler than Belfort. He is hittable. He lacks power or at least the will to want to finish. You thought he was good enough to whether a brawlers early storm then cruise to an easy decision via cardio.

I get that you hedged with Belfort by KO. But Belfort was almost hedgable with Rockhold by Dec To me he had just as few ways of winning as Belfort did. He really has done few things to think he will be any kind of finisher while facing top UFC middleweights. Skeleton Jardine is easily his best finish of his career.

Na, I'm not mad. You look like you are on tilt tho. I'm just discussing gambling and asking questions.

Yes. What do you not understand about that? Because Vitor has a good shot at winning by KO, I should always 'cap Rockhold at even money? You are grasping at straws, and doing it poorly.

I disagree. I think Rockhold could definitely have KO'd or submitted Belfort, no doubt.

You generally have to be losing to be on tilt bruhv. How much of the time you spend on SBR do you think is spent posting about me or towards me?

[Rubber Guard]

I post in a lot of threads when I am here on various subjects usually about odds and viewpoints on fights. Not to go on long rants bickering. It is easy to do with you though, as you always have to be right even when you are wrong. Not many of your losing picks are seen to you as just being wrong. A good amount of the time you say you will bet the same side and feel just as confident. You are doing pretty damn good with your picks. But your narcissism amuses me.

I visit here generally to get a few opinions on fights and odds before laying any money. Other times purely for insomniac amusement.

Other than a cardio advantage (when was the last time Belfort gassed? vs. Bones maybe? A huge LHW and one of the best) I saw no real advantage for Rockhold. And most all the intangibles were in Vitor's favor like Brazilian in Brazil, TRT, experience, level of competition, UFC debut for ROcky. Belfort was great value in the week leading up to the fight. Thats just my opinion. Agree to disagree. Don't get all defensive when I am just trying to see where you are coming from and discussing the odds/matchup. It is a forum to discuss this stuff.

[NunyaBidness]

Is now a good time to bring up the idea of a private forum where MD and Rubber Guard write essays to each other?

[Rubber Guard]

i got his number

[MD]

I post in a lot of threads when I am here on various subjects usually about odds and viewpoints on fights. Not to go on long rants bickering. It is easy to do with you though, as you always have to be right even when you are wrong. Not many of your losing picks are seen to you as just being wrong. A good amount of the time you say you will bet the same side and feel just as confident. You are doing pretty damn good with your picks. But your narcissism amuses me.

I visit here generally to get a few opinions on fights and odds before laying any money. Other times purely for insomniac amusement.

Other than a cardio advantage (when was the last time Belfort gassed? vs. Bones maybe? A huge LHW and one of the best) I saw no real advantage for Rockhold. And most all the intangibles were in Vitor's favor like Brazilian in Brazil, TRT, experience, level of competition, UFC debut for ROcky. Belfort was great value in the week leading up to the fight. Thats just my opinion. Agree to disagree. Don't get all defensive when I am just trying to see where you are coming from and discussing the odds/matchup. It is a forum to discuss this stuff.

I'm sure you know how many times you've posted in an attempt to insult me, only for me to ignore it. Pretty sure that's you bro. I'm "narcisistic" for saying that I think the value was on Rockhold, but that I could see the argument for Vitor, and that his win certainly wasn't a fluke? Silly.

The last time Belfort gassed was the last time one of his fights actually went on for any significant period of time. I also find it funny that you call me "defensive" while you stalk me around the forum posting snide comments towards me like a 16-year-old highschool girl gossiping on Facebook, to which I almost never reply. Looking at the first page of your recent posts gives us:

Belfort isn't a good striker!!!

this stuff keeps MD awake at night.

Even when you aren't right, you are right.

Why take him down? Haven't you heard? Vitor isn't a very good striker!

That's four posts in literally ten seconds of searching. If I cared enough, I could find a couple dozen.

So upset that I don't think Glover Teixeira is a master striker that you're going to cry about it on an internet forum every day for months afterwards. Can't make this shit up.

[raag]

Hey MD if it's any consolation I made the same bet as you (Rockhold hedged with Vitor by KO) and agree with your rationale totally. I think your picks and call on Hollett vs. Maldonaldo o2.5 are great!

[Tommy Blingshyne]

the dunham/RDA fight was too close to pick a side IMO...could see either guy winning TBH...dunham always seems to find himself in close back n forth fights but he sometimes comes out on the wrong side of those...think the smart play was fight goes the distance...

[raag]

Dunham totally deserved to win that fight but I was not surprised one bit when he got ****** by the judges in Brazil.

[MD]

http://mmadecisions.com/decision.jsp?id=4240

[mirinquads]

You don't need to be a fundamentally great and technical boxer in mma, that can be detrimental to your succes even. For MMA, Vitor striking is top shelf and extremely effective, specially the new and improved counter striking game, where he draws opponents in with feints and make them chase him, which seems to be exactly one of Rockholds weaknesses. He's prone to overaggressive especially against a perceived tenative opponent. This was on display in the Kennedy fight. That coupled with his statement that he was going to go after Vitor in the first round and be aggressive and what not, could easily get his skull caved in against the young dinosaur with eyes of fire. This could obviously be all talk, but we will see I suppose.
I do believe Vitors folding and gassing tendencies is exaggerated, mostly coming from his real bad period in the middle of this career with his sister being killed and whatnot, and a few fights where he got injured very early on. Though his cardio hasn't been on display lately I do believe, that he has rejuvenated his motivation and 'fire' to compete, thus I believe he trains very very hard lately.

Going to be on Vitor finish, small on Rd 1-2 with Rockhold dec hedge. He aint fighting Keith Jardine here, and Vitor getting subbed would surprise me, and if he wins a dec, its off wrestling and keeping Vitor off with kicks.

I actually win more if Rockhold wins a dec, got it at 550+ lulz.

penetrating love Trt Vitor. Dont bet against Jesus people especially in Braziii.

I still believe this is Vitor 2.0, He showed good heart against maybe the nastiest MMA champion in history, in a weightclass over him, after he had to bloat up and penetrate with his cardio even more. His counterpunching style is very energy efficient. I don't see why he couldnt have gotten the ko in similar fashion in round 3 at least. It seems he got past his mental issues somewhat, I think his personal issues ****** him up A LOT in the middle part of his career. He seems like a confident 'old lion' as he puts it him self, and maybe its the TRT who gave him that confidence boost, maybe not, but thats really besides the point. So stop bitching about it and take account for it.

Cant believe I got him as the dog in the Bisping fight.

Was on Dos Anjos/Dunham goes distance and Lentz all though I retardedly parlayed some of the bet with Cholish/Tibau Over, why? Because I'm an idiot. Lost on Gashimov was less than impressed by Lineker prior, but damn he looked like a beast this time around.

[mirinquads]

Nice call on the Hollet/Fab over, how the penetrate was that at +odds? Fab could have finished it though, but he elected to make come at me brah motions to a man who was basically out on this feet instead.

[raag]

Vitor's style and build (big, explosive, tendency to flurry) don't facilitate him having good cardio. I don't mean to fighter bash but Vitor folded pretty quickly in the Jones fight, completely deviating from his corner's advice (who were screaming at him to setup and throw the high kick) and his strengths. Yes, Vitor did catch Jones in an armbar early (due to Jones being a bit foolish and Vitor being in a great position to use the cage for it) but every one of his buttflops to guard for the rest of the fight simply resulted in him getting beat up from top position by Jones.

Vitor has a lot of technical flaws in his striking game... they are mostly overcome by his sheer athleticism (speed, power, ferocity) but can be exposed against guys who fight smart and have superior technique. He is more of a brawler than a boxer.

Teixeira is not a great striker and is still consistently overrated as one. Someone like Gustaffson or Mousasi would likely destroy him on the feet. He pretty much just counters everything with hooks and moves forward and throws more hooks. He is effective because he has a solid top game, a great chin, and power, not because of his technical striking prowess. Machida, Gustaffson, probably Mousasi, Hendo, Jones would all beat him on the feet more often than not.

[Rubber Guard]

I'm sure you know how many times you've posted in an attempt to insult me, only for me to ignore it. Pretty sure that's you bro. I'm "narcisistic" for saying that I think the value was on Rockhold, but that I could see the argument for Vitor, and that his win certainly wasn't a fluke? Silly.

The last time Belfort gassed was the last time one of his fights actually went on for any significant period of time. I also find it funny that you call me "defensive" while you stalk me around the forum posting snide comments towards me like a 16-year-old highschool girl gossiping on Facebook, to which I almost never reply. Looking at the first page of your recent posts gives us:






That's four posts in literally ten seconds of searching. If I cared enough, I could find a couple dozen.

So upset that I don't think Glover Teixeira is a master striker that you're going to cry about it on an internet forum every day for months afterwards. Can't make this shit up.

So how many times have you or V or anyone else made jabs at Gabe or the Pouyana guy or anyone else who doesn't have sound betting principals or who doesn't agree with you? 100s? upwards of 1000?

So what is your point? Did those little jabs really get to you that much over any other bickering that happens here on a daily basis?

[Rubber Guard]

Teixeira is not a great striker and is still consistently overrated as one. Someone like Gustaffson or Mousasi would likely destroy him on the feet. He pretty much just counters everything with hooks and moves forward and throws more hooks. He is effective because he has a solid top game, a great chin, and power, not because of his technical striking prowess. Machida, Gustaffson, probably Mousasi, Hendo, Jones would all beat him on the feet more often than not.

Henderson and Roy Nelson aren't any more technical than Tex. And they throw a less variety of strikes. Yet they seem to win at a decent rate. I'm about results. Capping technique only gets you so far.

And it is ridiculous to compare Vitor's loss to Bones and capping Rockhold. Rockhold is nothing like Bones and is getting overrated by you guys a bit. Everyone gasses when they fight Bones. Rashad looked like crap. Sonnen did too. Of course Vitor will get ragdolled and then tired out. At least he made it to the what 4th round? Rockhold wouldn't last a round and a half with Bones.

I understand that Vitor in his days has seen gassing and seen a weak mind. But when? Are you guys using fights from the early 2000s to cap this last fight? Since coming to the UFC Vitor's mental game has evidently gotten better. The headkick to the face by Anderson would have sent him downhill if he was mentally as weak as you make it seem. Rockhold has nothing much to prove he is on Vitor's level. He has a couple nice wins in strikeforce. His best win, I didn't even score for him.

[mirinquads]

Vitor's style and build (big, explosive, tendency to flurry) don't facilitate him having good cardio. I don't mean to fighter bash but Vitor folded pretty quickly in the Jones fight, completely deviating from his corner's advice (who were screaming at him to setup and throw the high kick) and his strengths. Yes, Vitor did catch Jones in an armbar early (due to Jones being a bit foolish and Vitor being in a great position to use the cage for it) but every one of his buttflops to guard for the rest of the fight simply resulted in him getting beat up from top position by Jones.

Vitor has a lot of technical flaws in his striking game... they are mostly overcome by his sheer athleticism (speed, power, ferocity) but can be exposed against guys who fight smart and have superior technique. He is more of a brawler than a boxer.

Teixeira is not a great striker and is still consistently overrated as one. Someone like Gustaffson or Mousasi would likely destroy him on the feet. He pretty much just counters everything with hooks and moves forward and throws more hooks. He is effective because he has a solid top game, a great chin, and power, not because of his technical striking prowess. Machida, Gustaffson, probably Mousasi, Hendo, Jones would all beat him on the feet more often than not.

I absolutely adore this line of thinking. This is why i have gotten vitor at dog odds against these technical cardio fighters. Not saying your wrong either. But this isn't high level boxing. Technique is always the most central thing in an Mma fight.

[MD]

So how many times have you or V or anyone else made jabs at Gabe or the Pouyana guy or anyone else who doesn't have sound betting principals or who doesn't agree with you? 100s? upwards of 1000?

So what is your point? Did those little jabs really get to you that much over any other bickering that happens here on a daily basis?

Gabe actively insults people for absolutely no reason just because they disagree with him. Bit of a difference.

My point is that for all your talk of just wanting to "discuss fights" on SBR, an absurd amount of your posts are just jabs at me. If they got to me, I'd be replying to them. Kind of like how I got to you, so you reply to things I post with insults so frequently.

[Grabaka]

I absolutely adore this line of thinking. This is why i have gotten vitor at dog odds against these technical cardio fighters. Not saying your wrong either. But this isn't high level boxing. Technique is always the most central thing in an Mma fight.

I absolutely adore your line of thinking too. Now that Vitor won its like....i knew it all along.
He was a dog but never passed +110. Why? Because it was a tough fight to call. Didnt you had a bad week the previous event? Why didnt you try to knew it all along before that event too?

Not picking a fight. I like you but that comment kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

As far as i know these "technical cardio fighters" do pretty good in MMA and they surely had made you and me a ton of money.

Goddam TRT, technique my ballz (well some technique yes)

[mirinquads]

^ Yeah it came off a bit dickish rereading it, wasn't ment to come off smug at all, i apologize.
Was trying to say that it has been proven twice now that TRT Vitor seems to have a good matchup against fighters that can't get his respect early, like Anderson. And I'm not saying Rockhold backers was wrong either, as it was indeed a very close fight. I hedged it, just hope you all did too. Still advocate respecting the improved Vitor instead of just being mad he's on the Jesus sauce though. (Not directed at anyone in particular. )

[Grabaka]

^ Yeah it came off a bit dickish rereading it, wasn't ment to come off smug at all, i apologize.
Was trying to say that it has been proven twice now that TRT Vitor seems to have a good matchup against fighters that can't get his respect early, like Anderson. And I'm not saying Rockhold backers was wrong either, as it was indeed a very close fight. I hedged it, just hope you all did too. Still advocate respecting the improved Vitor instead of just being mad he's on the Jesus sauce though. (Not directed at anyone in particular. )

Yeah i agree with that my amigo
Im def. gonna be scared to bet against TRT users and i def. gonna keep in mind Rockhold will not put his hands up for anyone!

Give TRT to the bullied children!

[Grabaka]

My fights always last less than a minute. MD and Rubber should try to get better at their finishing abilities. Or use TRT at least.

[NunyaBidness]

Give TRT to the bullied children!

Does TRT cause little boobs like anabolic steroids though?

[Grabaka]

Does TRT cause little boobs like anabolic steroids though?

IDK. We may need some research.

We dont want to create a vicious cycle.

Anyone has kids?

[Vaughany]

Does TRT cause little boobs like anabolic steroids though?

lol

[Rubber Guard]

Is this why Vitor is sort of shying away from Anderson rematch talk? Because it would probably be in Vegas?

[Vaughany]

maybe, but he probably also knows he'd get dominated again!

[mirinquads]

Rather because he doesn't want to get his head severed by a karate chop or whatever Anderson decides to do to him next. Make no mistake, Vitor doesn't want that fight.

He lamented for a rematch with Jones, after knocking out buttatoof for Christ sake. Should tell you something.

[Rubber Guard]

maybe, but he probably also knows he'd get dominated again!

Running out of decent fights. Dana doesn't want him knocking off all the contenders and not fighting for the title....ala what Rory is sort of doing/about to do.

[Rubber Guard]

I've thought he should stay at 205, but he seemed to make the cut well this time. He was talking to himself and all pumped up during weigh ins. Usually you don't see much energy used by anyone with a bad cut. Vitor/Hendo again would be a fun fight.

[MD]

Vitor/Hendo again would be a fun fight.

They could have the winner suck out the loser's testosterone and then fight Anderson Silva. Hendo by somersault kick.

[Rubber Guard]

They could have the winner suck out the loser's testosterone and then fight Anderson Silva. Hendo by somersault kick.

What would you set that line at if it was scheduled for 3 months from now in Brazil (Belfort on TRT)??

[Grabaka]

I feel like Belfort might kill his wife soon.
Too much TRT.

[MD]

What would you set that line at if it was scheduled for 3 months from now in Brazil (Belfort on TRT)??

Hard to call. No reason to think Hendo would have a cardio edge, and honestly, I don't think he's evolved with the sport. Vitor -220 I suppose.

[sideloaded]

ko's are rare, given that is the only way vitor wins I always favor rockhold

[Rubber Guard]

ko's are rare, given that is the only way vitor wins I always favor rockhold

Other than a decision, what other way did you see Rockhold winning most? I know he has some BJJ credentials, but not good enough to sub Vitor unless he was dead tired. He doesn't commit to really finishing guys so a TKO seems rare. I just wish Vitor could go 3 or 4 rounds at MW to see how bad his cardio really is. Seems like people are using fights from 8 years ago to determine he has real weak cardio. Or the fact he was dominated by a huge LHW that has dominated many quality fighters. It may not be a strong area of his....but I just don't think it is as bad as many capped it at. Rockhold looked genuinely in over his head in that first round. He backed up any time Vitor got aggressive. I don't think Rockhold is as good as many seem to believe. I may pick Bisping over him if they ever were matched up.

[mirinquads]

^Agreed. His takedown defense seems improved as well, maybe comes with the added strength. Being taken down by Jones is nothing to be ashamed of. Rockhold and Bisping is quite similar too and Rockhold was overhyped. He has one good fight against Jacare, which was close. He's had favourable matchups all the way, as he never fought a good, or at least decent, striker till Vitor. He has good takedown defense and ability to get up though. I think Bisping would out speed and technique him, and take a comfortable decision, if they ever fought. Unless he just puts his thumb in his eye and tko him of course. (yes still bitter.)