Bitcoin Sportsbooks: What factors matter if you are going Bitcoin bookie?

**capitalist pig** · 08-19-14, 11:50 AM

I bought my first btc las week on coinbase, it's harder than one thinks to find a btc thru a individual here in the US. Not to mention the btc rate has been all over the place the last week.

I didn't answer one of your questions but that's my experience with btc so far.

Later

**NunyaBidness** · 08-19-14, 12:02 PM

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To answer your question, speed of payouts is a big one, I like BTC because I don't have to keep a balance on any book. In fact the books that allow you to simply send funds for that bet alone and pay you on grading are the best, no fear of losing your entire roll.

**jjgold** · 08-19-14, 02:48 PM

Market participants speculated that Monday's losses came as a result of excessive margin trading, which caused a flash crash on the BTC-e platform and at least on one additional exchange.
The steep decline then had a cascading effect across the larger Bitcoin market, which dragged prices sharply lower.
A number of traders and market analysts also attributed the plunge to price manipulation by short-term profiteers who are deliberately driving prices down to eventually buy them back at lows.
Prices of the virtual currency have lost more than $100, or 17%, since the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a lengthy set of risks that virtual currencies pose to consumers on August 11.
Bitcoin is digital cash and is not backed by a government or central bank to regulate or issue it. It can be used to purchase goods and services from stores and online retailers.

**Optional** · 08-19-14, 03:06 PM

The thing that would tip me would be an easy to use ewallet that instantly converted my dollars to bitcoin to deposit, and back again on withdraw, so I am not dealing with BTC speculation. Just paying a small fee for the actual transfer.

Bill's edit reply: yea it seems that security being the main thing means that wont happen? Money has to be received in hand before you get a bitcoin.

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by capitalist pig

I bought my first btc las week on coinbase, it's harder than one thinks to find a btc thru a individual here in the US. Not to mention the btc rate has been all over the place the last week.

I didn't answer one of your questions but that's my experience with btc so far.

Later

hard to buy?

no its hard to sell

but the btc groupies on here will tell u different they should be in the thread momentarily

**Legions36** · 08-19-14, 03:31 PM

It's not worth even speaking about btc books since they feel the need to over charge on juice by a lot. I have done a thorough check on most of them and now that 5dimes is on board they are the top place that accepts btc. An average of .05 to .10 difference a lot of times, so u bet 1btc .05 costs u $50 more at a fully btc book. If and when comes a fully btc book that offers this then it will be worth it to bring this up. Nitrogen btc book is pretty good but 5dimes has way better stuff, the rest of them have horrible lines most of the time.

**jjgold** · 08-19-14, 03:31 PM

its just seems way to difficult to buy and sell

way too many channels to actually see the cash in your hand

**existential** · 08-19-14, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Legions36

It's not worth even speaking about btc books since they feel the need to over charge on juice by a lot. I have done a thorough check on most of them and now that 5Dimes is on board they are the top place that accepts btc. An average of .05 to .10 difference a lot of times, so u bet 1btc .05 costs u $50 more at a fully btc book. If and when comes a fully btc book that offers this then it will be worth it to bring this up. Nitrogen btc book is pretty good but 5dimes has way better stuff, the rest of them have horrible lines most of the time.

they're all terrible thus far because they're not truly invested in btc. they're constantly exchanging what's received for fiat and thus not truly holding any btc inventory (or even a modest float). it's somewhat understandable why they're not doing the latter thus far due to volatility, but until books start doing so, we'll see more of the same gouging.

**sports_quant99** · 08-19-14, 03:49 PM

A bitcoin book that has these will be a game changer (especially for US players):

1. instant transfers into the book with no payment processor or bank required

2. instant withdrawal after bets are graded (this minimizes payment risk, and also seizure risk e.g. Neteller in 2007)

3. peer-to-peer, like Matchbook, with low vigs, and no limits

4. the option to keep the whole transaction stream in bitcoin, OR to allow conversion (for a fee) to fiat currency back and forth so as to minimize exposure to bitcoin volatility risk.... this would probably require some sort of partnership with a currency processor

The first book that has these, and builds a Pinnacle-like trusted reputation, will forever change online sports betting.

There is a new platform called Ethereum that uses blockchain technology that may help enable this to become reality.

The anonymity issue shouldnt really matter to serious sports bettors, who should be filing taxes on winnings, and (if in the US) filing offshore account forms with the IRS (e.g. TDF 90-22.1).

**Russian Rocket** · 08-19-14, 03:50 PM

The fact that people continue to put their hard earned cash into unregulated currency that can burst any day is truly mind boggling.
There are plenty of low to high risk investment vehicle out there to play with where you wouldn't have to sweat the uncertainty that this whole Bitcoin world brings.

**existential** · 08-19-14, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by sports_quant99

A bitcoin book that has these will be a game changer (especially for US players):

1. instant transfers into the book with no payment processor or bank required

2. instant withdrawal after bets are graded (this minimizes payment risk, and also seizure risk e.g. Neteller in 2007)

3. peer-to-peer, like Matchbook, with low vigs, and no limits

4. the option to keep the whole transaction stream in bitcoin, OR to allow conversion (for a fee) to fiat currency back and forth so as to minimize exposure to bitcoin volatility risk.... this would probably require some sort of partnership with a currency processor

The first book that has these, and builds a Pinnacle-like trusted reputation, will forever change online sports betting.

There is a new platform called Ethereum that uses blockchain technology that may help enable this to become reality.

The anonymity issue shouldnt really matter to serious sports bettors, who should be filing taxes on winnings, and (if in the US) filing offshore account forms with the IRS (e.g. TDF 90-22.1).

correct. but like i said above you, this won't be possible until books truly become investors in btc. none of them are looking to do that at this point (understandable to an extent).

books already have risk management departments, but they're not the least bit sophisticated. i'd wager that no one in any of these departments have commensurate experience with something like FX trading. a whole new arm of the department would have to be built out, an expensive investment. OR they'd have to outsource it, still expensive.

**Art Vandeleigh** · 08-19-14, 04:13 PM

I'm not completely sure what this thread is trying to get at. It seems like you may as well be asking what you would want from a sportsbook that accepts deposits P2P, or by C C. I mean you want the book to be solid for all the usual reasons, and you want the method of deposit to be quick, easy and reliable, regardless of what you're depositing.

Having said that, if a bitcoin only sportsbook (can't exchange BTC for USD at the book) had future betting, like NCAA season team wins, and you have no choice but to hold bitcoin there for a few months, I'd like to see wagers at the book where you could hedge against big BTC price drops (such as "will the price of Bitcoin be below $300 on Oct. 31"), because hedging bitcoin by shorting it by trading it elsewhere seems incredibly risky at this time.

**ItsMeMrMattE** · 08-19-14, 04:17 PM

@sports_quant99 i posted a video about Ethereum in a thread here a month or so ago. that platform is going revolutionize many things in my opinion. its good to see someone else on here knowing what it is.

**Chipup** · 08-19-14, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Russian Rocket

The fact that people continue to put their hard earned cash into unregulated currency that can burst any day is truly mind boggling.
There are plenty of low to high risk investment vehicle out there to play with where you wouldn't have to sweat the uncertainty that this whole Bitcoin world brings.

Bitcoin isn't for the investment, it isn't for anyone but the tin foil hat club members who believe that this crypto currency is actually Anonymous.

Because you know it's not like the Banks or government can't just track your withdrawal records from your bank to figure it out.

I for one wish I had bought this crap by the buttload when it was $25-$40 a coin. If I had taken one second to realize just how many Fox news watchers there really were I'd be rich. Bitcoins are such a huge scam I'm surprised Wall Street hasn't started taking it yet. Probably because no matter how easy it is to steal it's still basically a pain in the ass to cash out.

**RudyRuetigger** · 08-19-14, 04:21 PM

well i only have 1 thing to say about bitcoin

boondoggle guy always loved and wanted people to invest in it

i hated that guy because he shortstacked and hit n ran at sbr poker

well ofcourse i thought any opinion of his sucked but he was spot on

i hope that guy boondoggle is now a fukkin rich millionaire

he had a clue at poker, and if he had played me with a full stack straight up, id prolly be a millionaire too. fukk me

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

its just seems way to difficult to buy and sell

way too many channels to actually see the cash in your hand

**sports_quant99** · 08-19-14, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by existential

correct. but like i said above you, this won't be possible until books truly become investors in btc. none of them are looking to do that at this point (understandable to an extent).

books already have risk management departments, but they're not the least bit sophisticated. i'd wager that no one in any of these departments have commensurate experience with something like FX trading. a whole new arm of the department would have to be built out, an expensive investment. OR they'd have to outsource it, still expensive.

A book that i described, that wants to do bitcoin only, doesnt need to take on any currency risk. If it's like Matchbook, it's just matching winners and losers' bitcoins. The fiat conversion feature that i mentioned can come later as the bitcoin market matures and FX tools come online. But even without those, a book like this can be a game-changer. These FX tools will come online for the consumer to use as well, so a consumer can (for a small fee) outsource their currency risk for the 3 hours of an NFL game.

In any event, existing books are already figuring out ways to do this e.g. 5Dimes and AsianConnect88 are already taking Bitcoin

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 04:34 PM

this one of the better bitcoin threads

**jjgold** · 08-19-14, 04:37 PM

I do not think many Americans use Bitcoin

major Casino in Vegas accepts Bitcoin to check in and not one person has used it....go figure

The Currency fluctuates a lot also and is manipulated by big traders

**sports_quant99** · 08-19-14, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by ItsMeMrMattE

@sports_quant99 i posted a video about Ethereum in a thread here a month or so ago. that platform is going revolutionize many things in my opinion. its good to see someone else on here knowing what it is.

Thank you for that post! That was what got me turned on to Ethereum. I've watched their videos, and study what they do. A potential game-changer that could be as big as the internet. It could very well lead to the kind of platform that i'm talking about for sports betting, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Could be applied to just about any business / institution / system / industry.

Good stuff! thanks for that post

**existential** · 08-19-14, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by sports_quant99

A book that i described, that wants to do bitcoin only, doesnt need to take on any currency risk. The conversion feature that i mentioned can come later as the bitcoin market matures and FX tools come online. But even without those, a book like this can be a game-changer. These FX tools will come online for the consumer to use as well, so a consumer can (for a small fee) outsource their currency risk for the 3 hours of an NFL game.
..
In any event, existing books are already figuring out ways to do this e.g. 5Dimes and AsianConnect are already taking Bitcoin

understood in theory. but certainly a btc-only book does need to convert to fiat at some point. fiat is what got them in the game and what's needed to get them out in increments when necessary. they'll always need fiat for a whole range of operational needs - primarily, of course, to purchase btc hedge positions and, second, to maintain overhead. imagine the constant balancing act required (for a btc-only book) to efficiently inventory cash (fiat) and btc positions for such operational purposes.

**NunyaBidness** · 08-19-14, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Chipup

Bitcoin isn't for the investment, it isn't for anyone but the tin foil hat club members who believe that this crypto currency is actually Anonymous.

Because you know it's not like the Banks or government can't just track your withdrawal records from your bank to figure it out.

localbitcoins + bitcoin atms make it completely anonymous.

**NunyaBidness** · 08-19-14, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

I do not think many Americans use Bitcoin

major Casino in Vegas accepts Bitcoin to check in and not one person has used it....go figure

That's not what bitcoin is "for" at this point. Sure, when it becomes accepted everywhere and everyone has it that sort of transaction will be commonplace. At this point it is an anonymous replacement for cash in distance relationships. To use it instead of your *********** at the local store isn't very practical, especially since most holders of bitcoin believe it will only increase in value.

**Kindred** · 08-19-14, 05:07 PM

- If bitcoin balances are converted to dollars?
I like seeing the value of the bitcoins in dollars when I'm placing a bet and value of my balance in dollars but prefer betting actual bitcoins over dollars because I like to cashout a lot from bitcoin books rather than hold a balance there. Also I hold bitcoin so not looking to sell them to bet, just looking to bet them, but that might not appeal to others and I can see people wanting their balance in dollars I'm just not one of them. That pretty much also answers the second question as far as my preferences.
- Is the sportsbook anonymous?
no preference. I do enjoy being able to post up without really going through the hassle of opening an account, however I've been gambling online for a long time and would like to see the books I already use to bet dollars accept bitcoin and the KYC shit isn't a problem if it's a reputable book I feel comfortable sharing my information with. I'm also a square so I'd probably get better bonus offers if they can profile me

**sports_quant99** · 08-19-14, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by existential

understood in theory. but certainly a btc-only book does need to convert to fiat at some point. fiat is what got them in the game and what's needed to get them out in increments when necessary. they'll always need fiat for a whole range of operational needs - primarily, of course, to purchase btc hedge positions and, second, to maintain overhead. imagine the constant balancing act required (for a btc-only book) to efficiently inventory cash (fiat) and btc positions for such operational purposes.

Yes, that all makes sense. Those on the cutting edge will take these risks, and figure out how to solve/manage those problems. There is too much at stake for this to go unsolved. Sports betting is a $500 billion per year business, there are hundreds of million$ to be made for those who get this to work.

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

localbitcoins + bitcoin atms make it completely anonymous.

not for anything legit

cant buy anything without your name

cant deposit to a book anonymously

yeah go buy some bunk shit from silk road but where you going to have it sent

**NunyaBidness** · 08-19-14, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by CWD

cant deposit to a book anonymously

Wrong.

Most bitcoin books don't require you to sign up with your real name.

A few don't even require you sign up at all, no username, password, anything.

Why would you talk about something that you don't know anything about?

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 05:41 PM

when a major book allows this let me now

wont hold my breath will never happen

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

Wrong.

Most bitcoin books don't require you to sign up with your real name.

A few don't even require you sign up at all, no username, password, anything.

Why would you talk about something that you don't know anything about?

told u guys the groupies were coming

**sports_quant99** · 08-19-14, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by CWD

when a major book allows this let me now

wont hold my breath will never happen

5Dimes, AsianConnect88.....doesnt get much bigger than that

**existential** · 08-19-14, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by sports_quant99

Yes, that all makes sense. Those on the cutting edge will take these risks, and figure out how to solve/manage those problems. There is too much at stake for this to go unsolved. Sports betting is a $500 billion per year business, there are hundreds of million$ to be made for those who get this to work.

so are you saying that until that time comes, btc books will essentially act as a middle man with relationship to the btc transaction? i.e. a 3rd party "btc bank" (if you will) will accept the btc deposits and execute btc payouts to the player? and thus the btc book will essentially only have a 1st party relationship with the player when it comes to bookmaking?

**CWD** · 08-19-14, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by sports_quant99

5Dimes, AsianConnect88.....doesnt get much bigger than that

not without ID at 5dimes i would bet on that

i dont know about that other one like i said MAJOR

**NunyaBidness** · 08-19-14, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by CWD

not without ID at 5dimes i would bet on that

i dont know about that other one like i said MAJOR

that's actually not what you said:

"cant deposit to a book anonymously "

**capitalist pig** · 08-19-14, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

localbitcoins + bitcoin atms make it completely anonymous.

Where I live there are no btc atms, and to do a localbtc thing the closest guy to me was 150 miles. I could have gone and made a deposit in his bank account and he probably would have sent me the btc # in less than 30 minutes like he said he would, but I see no benefit to me when I have to go to WF or BkofAma and make a deposit in someone elses bank account I dont even know, I may as well send the $ to Jose in Nicaragua. So I just went the route of coinbase then used a btc mixer to distance myself from the btc # as much as possible.

Now what Im going to do with my btc I have no idea, if Heritage was to start taking them Id probably deposit it there, but I dont see myself using a btc book.

later