Question on online sportsbooks being siezed

**durito** · 02-29-12, 11:03 AM

They seized a domain name, nothing to do with Bodog, it's servers, data, etc.

**cyberinvestor** · 02-29-12, 04:54 PM

The only way that would happen is if, in the case of Bookmaker, the government actually seized the processors and their files. In such cases then yes, the government can see deposits and withdrawals.

Not to be rude but your $12,000 and gambling is nothing the government would spend $10 to investigate or care about. A lot of people on these forums think the government is after them. There are millions of people who bet online and transact in tens of thousands of dollars every month and year. The government has YET despite all the seizures to go after a SINGLE gambler in any way shape or form. It's not worth it from a cost standpoint and there is no federal law that makes it illegal to be a gambler.

**Hareeba!** · 02-29-12, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

The only way that would happen is if, in the case of Bookmaker, the government actually seized the processors and their files. In such cases then yes, the government can see deposits and withdrawals.

Not to be rude but your $12,000 and gambling is nothing the government would spend $10 to investigate or care about. A lot of people on these forums think the government is after them. There are millions of people who bet online and transact in tens of thousands of dollars every month and year. The government has YET despite all the seizures to go after a SINGLE gambler in any way shape or form. It's not worth it from a cost standpoint and there is no federal law that makes it illegal to be a gambler.

very true but I suspect the issue for many is more to do with tax evasion than being sprung for illegal(?) gambling

**Waterstpub87** · 02-29-12, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

very true but I suspect the issue for many is more to do with tax evasion than being sprung for illegal(?) gambling

If that was the case, they would first announce an amnesty if you were willing to settle up with them. Then they start going after big people for the missed taxes, people that owed over 100,000$ or more. They know about plenty of non-gamblers who evade for that amount, but don't go after them because trials take so long.

**FreeFall** · 02-29-12, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

very true but I suspect the issue for many is more to do with tax evasion than being sprung for illegal(?) gambling

if you want to go down that road they still need to go get the processors. That is what should scare you, but those changes rapidly. They come and go and books tend to have more than one. So again I'd just go with no.

If they won't charge you for illegal sports betting you think the IRS will ask for these documents to go find out if you are a winner or a loser and demand tax either way?

In short, the answer is no. I have been wrong before though.

**cyberinvestor** · 03-01-12, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

very true but I suspect the issue for many is more to do with tax evasion than being sprung for illegal(?) gambling

Very true! However even tax evasion is such a tough thing for them to enforce just because of the volume of data they need to sift through. So, unless someone is pulling in millions from offshore gambling (which is probably .00005% of the people doing it) then there would be no issue someone would have to worry about.

What they basically have to do is get all this data. Assuming they get all this data from the processors then they have to sift through it and calculate John Doe's wins versus what he deposited. Then they have to track down who John Doe is. Then cross reference his taxes with what was processed. It's not too difficult HOWEVER you have to do this literally 1-2 million times and the government just does not have the manpower.

The easier way would be to get all the data and then compile it and sort to see who received or deposited over a certain figure (i.e. $500K). At that level it would dramatically cut the data and ensure that if investigated it could be worth their while to pursue. Most people here and most people worrying about it don't even come close to being on the government's radar.

However I would add again that despite all the seizures and even the seizures of processors, no individual citizen has been attacked by the government using those records (illegal gambling, taxes, etc.).

**Justin7** · 03-01-12, 10:05 AM

The government in most cases didn't seize processors, they just seized the money of the processors.

Now with Beted, the processor was the US government.

**Dark Horse** · 03-01-12, 05:04 PM

The US government loves to bully the People into believing that it has much more power than it does.

Just remember that they're supposed to serve us and look after our interests. Obviously, these days politicians are much more interested in serving the interests of the lobbyists that paid for their election campaigns, etc. Nevertheless, the power is with us, the People, not with the politicians that are supposed to represent us. I have never come across a population that is less politically aware than in the US. That's because most people here believe that politics means to belong to one of two camps, and after that critical thought no longer applies. The divided-and-conquered States, in other words. So many people here just roll over, without any thought. The response to the seizure of domain names is a perfect example. The government seizes a $10 domain name, and they're completely intimidated by it. It's a form of cowardice.

**indio** · 03-01-12, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

The US government loves to bully the People into believing that it has much more power than it does.

Just remember that they're supposed to serve us and look after our interests. Obviously, these days politicians are much more interested in serving the interests of the lobbyists that paid for their election campaigns, etc. Nevertheless, the power is with us, the People, not with the politicians that are supposed to represent us. I have never come across a population that is less politically aware than in the US. That's because most people here believe that politics means to belong to one of two camps, and after that critical thought no longer applies. The divided-and-conquered States, in other words. So many people here just roll over, without any thought. The response to the seizure of domain names is a perfect example. The government seizes a $10 domain name, and they're completely intimidated by it. It's a form of cowardice.

Well stated.

The DOJ (and most branches of law enforcement) use intimidation as their no. 1 weapon, and many times have a weak case, or have committed an illegal prosecution and can always fall back on the intimidation factor.

These money processors are a great example. While really doing nothing illegal, they often plead guilty to receive a guaranteed short sentence because they are threatened with 30 year+ term if they lose in court. Even if you think you're innocent, or have done nothing wrong, it takes a lot of courage to face 30 years in a cage when you can plead out to a 6 month term in a country club.

That's why citizens like Michael Allison are heroes, and every citizen should know this man's story and be proud we have people like him.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"If you are afraid to speak against tyranny, then you are already a slave." - John Bryant

**korbal29** · 03-01-12, 08:10 PM

I think the us government has a small penis...wants to prove something

**touchback** · 03-02-12, 12:54 AM

You have got to remember, they are not seizing the company or a building or something... it is the domain they are seizing. That is it, which is basically just some virtual letters... kind of like taking a sign from out front of an office but not being able to enter the building or anything, so they do not have any customer data technically from this particular action. But you have got to ask yourself, an on going long or not so long investigation led up to a warrant being requested to seize the domain... so data was collected at some point and may or may not include customer information. If this information was collected during the course of an investigation and was obtained without breaking any laws or violating any citizens personal rights then it may be used to support any case against criminal activity. Also, keep in mind that the afore mentioned citizens personal rights or legal rights really no longer exist after the passing of the patriot act and other numerous pieces of legislation since 911. Also, these business s are located outside of US territory so US laws do not apply to methods of obtaining case data when the source is in say Costa Rica. So a common and or ignorant misconception that many US citizens have is that US law always apply to them wherever they are in the world. Not so... Costa Rican laws apply to anything in Costa Rica... which means there are many methods available to obtain information and not break US laws because they are non-applicable. Once the data is collected it is processed I would guess and then they try and figure out how to use it to give someone the shaft... kind of a cart before the horse kind of deal. Here is another example of how a work around is done... want to look at Joe Blow and all his phone calls and emails and yadadayyayaaya in say Texas. Well, call your buddy over in say London and tell him you want this and this and this. The Brit just goes ahead and does what is technically a violation of rights and gathers all asked for information on said Joe Blow, and then gives it to the interested parties. When the interested parties are asked where they got it they can say from such and such and they were not involved in the primary acquisition so they did not violate any rights, but the information is still good and helped them develop their case. But in all reality they are just not interested in a single player or players in general... they are interested in the primary business men (owners, backers) and those involved in financial violations that involve huge sums of money. Always nice to seize large amounts of money I would guess... no matter what the circumstances. Also, I believe J7 had a commentary on how the actual wagering of a player in many forms is technically legal and nothing can be done about it or they are not interested enough to go to the trouble. So I would think you are safe Guru... even if they did know you had a 7 team parlay in on hoops...or that you got a $500 payout. $500k might be a different story though... you have any really big payouts? Any feedback from the SBR Spy would be appreciated though, let us know if you have a second or a break during your case work