Win4real stiffs for $20,000

**Justin7** · 05-03-11, 10:44 AM

I handled this complaint, and recommended that they pay the player.

**sharpcat** · 05-03-11, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by JohnnyC

On February 26th I opened an account with Win4Real.com and deposited just under $12,000 within the next two days from my Moneybookers account. I played at the site until March 7th and ran my balance up to $32,000. On March 7th they zero'd out my account. I spoke to live chat, they sited terms and conditions that I cannot play at Win4Real because I also have an account at Sportsbetting.com. My account at sportsbetting.com is unfunded and I had not played there in at least 6 months.

I knew of the affiliation between the two sites, when I opened the account I specifically told them I used to play at sportsbetting.com and asked if that would be a problem. I was told 'no'. I have a screenshot of this conversation which I will forward. I made them well aware of my history with their self described 'sister site' over the phone and on live chat.

I made a complaint with SBR but WIN4REAL refused to pay me my winnings. They sent back deposits but they are still stealing my winnings. If I had lost my deposits they would keep them. I believe they need to honor the full amount of $32,000 and not site some fine print when I let them know up front that I had played at their sister site and was told that was no problem. I was told on the phone and by live chat that it was fine to play there even though I had an account at sportsbetting.com.

They booked my bets and should pay me my winnings.

I am forced to make this thread because for some reason this has not appeared on the SBR newsfeed despite WIN4REAL refusng to pay me and SBR telling me they can do nothing more. They should have been downgraded to F immediately after the no pay decision was made.

If it was a problem they should not have allowed the account to be opened and unless you were using both accounts to circumvent betting limits they have no excuse to not pay you.

**HedgeHog** · 05-03-11, 11:14 AM

Win4Real has confiscated funds in the past, one time for $90k--but SBR suspected fraud in that case. Given that SBR has found for the player in the current case, W4R's C- rating should be lowered:

Results News results for the search term: WIN4REAL
3/8/2011 10:30 AM
win4real theft of player winnings?
A win4real (SBR rating C-) player reports that his winnings are not being honored. On February 26th, the player opened his account with win4real, depositing $12,000 via Moneybookers. He increased his balance to $32,000.

On March 7th, win4real zeroed the player's balance claiming that he also has a Sportsbetting.com account. win4real is part of the Sportsbetting.com Group, which has a rule prohibiting players from having more than one account with the family. | win4real dispute 2/3/2011 04:52 PM
win4real sportsbook confiscation update
win4real (sportsbook rating C-) complaint update. On December 26th, SBR reported that a player stated win4real confiscated $90,000 in winnings from his account. The player told SBR that the bulk of his balance was generated by a seven team parlay. On January 1st, 2011, SBR reported that the player wished to retract his complaint, citing concerns over the well-being of his family. | win4real addresses complaint 1/1/2011 01:37 PM
win4real confiscation case update
Update: SBR finds the player likely defrauded win4real

The win4real (SBR rating C-) player that stated he had a $90,000 balance zeroed out has requested his complaint be retracted. When SBR asked the player if win4real had pressured the player into dropping his complaint, the player would not go into details other than stating a concern for the well-being of his family. SBR is continuing to attempt to confirm the dispute and any subsequent remarks from win4real to the player. 12/26/2010 01:00 PM
win4real confiscates $90,000 from player
Update: SBR finds the player likely defrauded win4real.

win4real (SBR rating C-) confiscates $90,000 from player. The player began playing with win4real in the fall of 2009. Over the course of a year, the player made roughly $10,000 in deposits. In October of 2009, the player risked $650 on a seven team parlay, which won and netted him approximately $70,000. The player proceeded to win another $20,000 in the casino. In late 2009, win4real suspended the player's balance and locked his account. win4real has not provided comment to the player or SBR on why the player's balance was seized. On 5/28/2009, SBR reported that win4real and sister sportsbooks Sportsbetting.com (SBR rating C-) and Racebook.com (SBR rating C-) confiscated $20,000 from a winning player with accounts at each outfit. 5/28/2009 10:55 PM
Sister books, Sportsbetting.com, Racebook, and win4real confiscate player's winnings and deposits
The player opened accounts at all three sportsbooks in June of 2008, depositing and playing consistently for five months. In November his accounts, which showed a profit of approximately $20,000, were frozen. The sportsbook cited a rule saying the player could only have an account at one sportsbook in the Sportsbetting.com Group. SBR has advised the sportsbook to pay the player for all wagers it booked since the player's funds were at risk. Bookmakers should have the ability to limit a player's action but should not retroactively void winning bets. Thus far Sportsbetting (SBR rating C-), win4real (SBR rating C-) and Racebook (SBR rating C-) have not agreed to pay the player for winning wagers, or even the winnings on the first of the three accounts joined. $9,500 in player deposits remain in possession of the sportsbook without an explanation, six months after closure. At the conclusion of this dispute, the Sportsbetting.com Group will be reevaluated. | Sportsbetting.com Discussions

**Chopsticks** · 05-03-11, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

If it was a problem they should not have allowed the account to be opened and unless you were using both accounts to circumvent betting limits they have no excuse to not pay you.

They may if he took bonuses at both places. Especially if he had taken a bonus and then cashed out - and in the process exhausted any more bonuses from one site - before moving on to the next one and taking more bonuses.

All Signup Bonuses are designed for NEW individuals only. If you have an existing account at SPORTSBETTING.COM, win4real or RaceBook.com that has already made a deposit, you will not qualify for a signup bonus.

Bonus abusers will not be tolerated and could incur in account closure and/or forfeiting of all winnings. We reserve the right

I think it is harsh but if they did not have these rules in place they would go bankrupt. We all know that sportsbetting.com gives out very generous bonuses. But it would kind of be their fault since they would not have a system/routine in place to prevent players from getting bonuses/signing up to one site if you are already a member of a sister site.

I want to see the player paid but I can understand why they are pissed if bonuses were involved. From what I can tell from my (very) brief look at the terms and conditions, there are no rules to prevent one from having accounts at all three sites. The rules only say that you cannot take signup bonuses from more than one. I would assume reload bonuses are out of the question as well.

**SBR Lou** · 05-03-11, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by JohnnyC

I am forced to make this thread because for some reason this has not appeared on the SBR newsfeed despite WIN4REAL refusng to pay me and SBR telling me they can do nothing more.

Had you checked the news page? It's been the latest story on Win4Real since March 8th, 2011. All stories indexed on a sportbook's search page were published on the homepage.

Link to the full article.

**Chopsticks** · 05-03-11, 11:25 AM

Do all three sites have the same management? I ask because I thought sportsbetting.com were very reasonable in the casino dispute where some guy exploited a flaw to win big, got caught, but sportsbetting decided to give him a few % of his winnings anyway and not close his account. Of course they could have been lying and there was no error in the software...

**wrongturn** · 05-03-11, 11:43 AM

It is disturbing. If they have a rule against new account, then they should say no to player in the first place when the player asked about it specifically.

**sharpcat** · 05-03-11, 11:44 AM

They should not have allowed him to open the account at win4real if they are worried about bonus abuse, this is their mistake.

**JohnnyC** · 05-03-11, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

If it was a problem they should not have allowed the account to be opened and unless you were using both accounts to circumvent betting limits they have no excuse to not pay you.

I was not using my sportsbetting.com account, it had been unfunded for 6 months.

**JohnnyC** · 05-03-11, 12:06 PM

This was published when I first filed the complaint with SBR. Nothing has been updated to the newsfeed since Justin ruled in my favor and the book refused to pay.

**sharpcat** · 05-03-11, 12:10 PM

**trixtrix** · 05-03-11, 07:49 PM

can you provide the screenshot proof in which support explicitly stated that there's no problem in having both accounts?

**BettingWizard** · 05-03-11, 07:57 PM

they accepted his bets. Having a sister site is irrelevant

**TheBeautifulGame** · 05-04-11, 12:11 PM

They should pay and top screwing around. However, what attracted you to join WIN4REAL? I made a thread about this site years ago asking was it the worst looking site ever? I think it's.

EDIT: Apologies, looks like they have changed the look from a Disney colourful reject to something looking somewhat professional.

**JohnnyC** · 05-04-11, 04:50 PM

Trix I sent the screenshot to J7 when he handled this, I can post it

**JohnnyC** · 05-04-11, 06:12 PM

So, ya, is this book gonna get a downgrade?

**trixtrix** · 05-04-11, 06:30 PM

there's no legitimate reason why you cannot post the screenshot, just white out the irrelevant parts

**JohnnyC** · 05-04-11, 06:37 PM

for u trix

Attached Files

**JohnnyC** · 05-04-11, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by BettingWizard

they accepted his bets. Having a sister site is irrelevant

I agree and so did Justin. The fact that they said I could play there while knowing I used to play at sportsbetting.com just invalidates the book's argument further.

**ericmangin** · 05-05-11, 12:31 AM

i feel so bad i'd be livid, but that's why u should never play with any book lower than an a b+ rating

**stikymess** · 05-05-11, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by ericmangin

i feel so bad i'd be livid, but that's why u should never play with any book lower than an a b+ rating

Agree, there are so many outs the fact that they are sister to sportsbetting.com would have kept me away.

**Glider** · 05-05-11, 09:29 PM

I've been with Sportsbetting.com for 3 years and have a love/hate type of relationship with them.

Despite being with them for a decent amount of time, making deposits and withdrawals during this entire period, they still do this ridiculous routine every once in a while where they make me send in pieces of ID 10 times, telling me the first nine times I sent it to them is unclear.
They're either stalling the payment hoping I cancel the withdrawal and keep betting, or they have the most incompetent payout department in the industry. No other book does this to me and I have (and have had) accounts at six or seven other places.

They also have these crazy limits at times. I'm not a big bettor, but have to laugh at times when they won't let you bet more than $25 or $50 bucks on a game. Seriously!

But they do have good promos and they are a MUST have book for betting 2nd half football and basketball. I know I've seen this mentioned a few times on the boards before, but if you watch Sportsbetting.com 2nd half lines, it can be a goldmine. You have to be low key or they'll limit you (a buddy of mine was just crushing them with 2nd half football last season and they limited his wagering limits to basically nothing). But they are often giving you a full point or point and half (or even more) value on key numbers. The type of numbers you can't get anywhere else. Not even close. The 2nd half football lines are one big reason I still play there.

**Chopsticks** · 05-05-11, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Glider

Despite being with them for a decent amount of time, making deposits and withdrawals during this entire period, they still do this ridiculous routine every once in a while where they make me send in pieces of ID 10 times, telling me the first nine times I sent it to them is unclear.
They're either stalling the payment hoping I cancel the withdrawal and keep betting, or they have the most incompetent payout department in the industry. No other book does this to me and I have (and have had) accounts at six or seven other places.

They did the same with me... I had to send id stuff like 5 times before they finally accepted it. Every time they sent me an e-mail and it was not really clear to me what the problem was on the documents I had sent them.. I had used the same ones with other books so I found it kind of odd.

I spoke to a rep on the phone and she explained that they are very picky about passport copies and they prefer a photo and not scans because it is easier for them to see the edges or whatever.

I have cashed out multiple times after this and it took about a week to ten days to get paid. Good book.

**Glider** · 05-05-11, 10:02 PM

Johnny, I just read your situation again. Quick question, why did you open the account with the sister book? I see you said you had an account already with them. Was it a bonus offer?

**justonetime** · 05-05-11, 10:24 PM

Pretty ridiculous. If it's an issue of a bonus, they should just take that away even though they really shouldn't. To void the winnings is theft.

**relaaxx** · 05-05-11, 10:41 PM

just another book stealing money. happens way to often. the only thing that surprises me is that noone has defendied the book yet. sick of hearing about trusting what most sportsbooks say to defend the theft.

**JohnnyC** · 05-06-11, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by justonetime

Pretty ridiculous. If it's an issue of a bonus, they should just take that away even though they really shouldn't. To void the winnings is theft.

Ya some of the theft is bonus money, I'd take my winnings minus bonus if that is a compromise. Still no update to their rating despite not following Justin's ruling to pay me $20,000.

**trixtrix** · 05-06-11, 07:11 PM

sally mckenzie sounds like a real name and a really hawt sista

**Glider** · 05-06-11, 09:08 PM

hey Johnny, I was curious as to why you would open an account with their sister book if you already had an account with them?

**calm** · 05-20-11, 11:04 AM

Wow. What a joke.

**JohnnyC** · 08-14-11, 10:25 PM

bump

**kisado** · 08-15-11, 12:59 AM

No one has commented on the part where the dude who was owed a cool 90k suddently retracts his complaint citing concerns for "the well-being" of his family. I mean, WTF!

**kisado** · 08-15-11, 01:03 AM

Ah, I see now that the player illegitimately got those funds by exploiting a bug in the book's software.

**sdiamond8065** · 08-15-11, 01:19 AM