-
Comment -
Who cares if the poster is BS, if he/she lost those games beted would have been happy for the 1000 they wouldn't say " uh we noticed you have an ip in costa rica, we are giving you your money back, and closing your acct" I don't give a damm for a book that is willing to take shots at players, let the players take the shots right back.Comment -
ANyone can provide receipts and passport stamps these days... Where would you like me to have been last week???
Anyways, what the hell does it matter if he/she was in CR? He/she may well be a liar, but assuming there is a real person with real verifyable information, then Beted needs to pay.
If beted does not want CR bets, block the IP addresses... Other sites do for the US
SeanComment -
So lets see, increasetheodds, Justin7, and JC have a pony in this race.
You all are smart guys so I have to wonder why you are stating things you know to be untrue.
BTW so you won't pretend to not know what I am talking about. If bets were placed in CR and the player was never in CR then bets shoud be voided.
SBR what kind of operation are you running that allows mods to participate in a scam? Justin7s comments would seem to be grounds for termination if you intend to run a honest operation. If an honest operation is not your intention I am very impressed with your skills. You sure sold me.Comment -
In order to maintain an open dialog with the SportsbookReview community in regards to the SGC matter, we wish to offer further information in this matter. We have been in close contact with this player, and have adhered to all suggestions by SBR staff, and hope for a speedy, amicable resolution, regardless of the outcome. All of the following information has been made available to Bill Dozer, and the player has been made aware of all of these concerns.
* While conducting a standard payout review, we found the account had been opened in Costa Rica and the first 26 bets, not 7, were placed from an IP from within the country over the course of 3 days. Unfortunately, blocking all Costa Rican IP's is not an option as our local personnel need to be able to operate and use the site. Comprehensive fraud checking happens on withdrawal, or upon deposit with fraud-prone methods such as credit card and ACH, but not Western Union. Our terms and conditions, and Costa Rican law, prohibit us from accepting betting accounts and wagers originating from Costa Rica.
* Additionally, the IP address in question is allocated to an online sportsbook company. We are obviously concerned with the possibility that this account was opened on behalf of someone else, which is also a violation of our terms. Professional betting is also against our terms, as we are recreationally-focussed.
* The name on Western Union receipt, sent from the US, is identical to the player's. The player claimed to be in Costa Rica at this time.
* After speaking with Bill Dozer, he agreed to arbitrate the issue. Bill Dozer asked the player for documentation to support her claim at approximately 12:00PM on Friday 11/2. No documentation has yet been received. Once it is received, we will verify its authenticity with Costa Rican Immigration.
If our suspiscion is simply a misinterpretation of the evidence, and the SBR staff feels that everything checks out, we will apologize profusely for the extreme inconvenience to this player.
This is obviously a contentious issue, and we appreciate everyone's understanding while it is resolved as fairly as possibleComment -
I don't pretend to understand the details in this case concerning costa rican law, the sgc player's nationality, beted's rules, etc. But, there is one aspect of your post that I do know a great deal about. I don't buy the answer that you cannot block all internet addresses from costa rica because your employees need to "be able to operate and use the site". Your employee's IP addresses are well known and it is a simple matter to set up a firewall to accept traffic from trusted IP addresses and block out all other IP addresses. So, right away I have issues with your response.Comment -
BetED,
I think it is honorable of you to go through the motions on this one, and especially to allow Bill to be involved in the process.
"* Additionally, the IP address in question is allocated to an online sportsbook company."
If you guys could perhaps share this data with one of SBR's techie guys, I think that's game over right there no matter what documents are 'produced'. I'm sure some of us could crank out documents of the sort with the right tools.Comment -
Damn.....I don't check in for a week and I miss the best thread this place has seen in months.....Comment -
My "pony in the race" is that I want a fair resolution to the case. In the scenario you discussed, I'd simply say follow the book's rules if it addresses that, or honor the bets if it doesn't.
If you are going to accuse me of some kind of dishonesty that should prevent me from moderating and helping players with disputes, don't beat around the bush. Quote me, and accuse me. Show me the error of my ways. I might even rethink my position if you present it logically.
In this dispute, as in all disputes, I simply want the fair result.Comment -
My 2 dollars (inflation, buddy)
I can't help but notice a stark contrast between the professional and businesslike response by BetEd, and the BS story by the pink player.
I'm certainly no expert in dealing with books, but I've dealt with plenty of sh*t books and their 'vibe' tends to be different (think used car salesman). In other words, I'd be strongly inclined to take BetEd at its word.
Why would BetEd bring up the IP of another online sportsbook if it can't proof that? (besides, in light of this thread, you got to love this angle, as the drama unfolds).
The statement below shows class and integrity, and is a far cry from the 'we are right even when we're wrong' attitude of scam books like sportsbook.com:
"If our suspiscion is simply a misinterpretation of the evidence, and the SBR staff feels that everything checks out, we will apologize profusely for the extreme inconvenience to this player."Comment -
I'm sure this is only round one, I'd like to see the one liners flowing in here if the "documents" produced turn out to be forged and the player gets shutdown. I wonder if SexyChick would treat us all to another serving of soccer mom bullshit.Comment -
We have record of all rated sportsbook IPs and are aware of what building in CR is close to this users vacation IP. This is why I have asked the player to also tell us which hotel the bets were placed from. The info by itself does not decide anything but may help to clarify. Since the player has offered to be transparent so she can show her innocence we wanted to give her the opportunity to address all questions and come to a speedy conclusion.Comment -
Her passport could be the hold up if it's in a safety deposit box. So I guess we will have to just play the waiting game until her next post explaining things in a little more detail.Comment -
Very true. Especially if someone lost the key.Comment -
She will never be heard from again on this forum.
Even she must realize the gig is up.
Shes on the phone to whoever freaking out.
However i must thank you SGC, the entertainment value contained within this thread is fantastic.Comment -
Well, I will give my two dollars, being someone who was ripped off by a sportsbook (SBG Global). If you honky mo fos had tried to put me through your kangaroo court and made demands like this on me, that I send you all my documentation, I would have told all of you where you coudl go and what you could do when you got there. So, I don't think that anything any of you have said proves anything.
Bill and company will sort this out.Comment -
Curious:
You are so soured by your SBG screwing that you would back any player against any Book, no matter the circumstances. I was screwed by SB.com (with no bailout) but it didn't cost me my objectivity. Unlike SB and SBG, Beted at least came forward and presented its case in our forum and agreed to arbitration. Instead of giving them credit, you go off on an absurd rant. Continue posting in pink in support of your sexy transvestite fraud from Minny, it shows how gullible you are. No wonder touts are approaching you with $500 plays, you present yourself as an easy mark. About the only agreement we have is that Bill and company will indeed sort this crap out.Last edited by HedgeHog; 11-05-07, 07:08 AM.Comment -
exactly. a very valid point, which none of the following posters have even noticed judging from their replies.
to me it's unbelievable how this forum can presume a player guilty without any proof, and in the meanwhile let the book get away with taking free shots on someone's balance.
nobody here thinks Beted would have returned the balance if the OP lost, yet almost everybody seems to think it's ok to confiscate the balance if the OP wins. i've said it before in this topic, but, regardless of who the OP is, where he/she lives, etc etc etc, that just strikes me as grossly unfair.Comment -
If this turns out to be a 'trying it on' attempt by the player the fact remains that BetEd booked the bets. They could have just have easily been losers rather then the winning run the player enjoyed.
If the player cannot supply the appropriate ID maybe BedEd should consider donating the 'Winnings' to a charity.
How about that BetEd
Would show a bookie in a good light for a change.
Comment -
Bet Ed, your excuses are ridiculous
This person bet 26 times before you discovered the bets were from Costa Rica. This is bull crap. This person won a lot of money and you never bothered to come up with this excuse until after it was determined the person had won. If the person had lost, none of this would have been refunded.
Secondly, your rules do not forbid people who are visiting Costa Rica from making bets. They forbid people who are Costa Rica citizens, or legal residents of the country. If you want to start cancelling winning wagers, I'm sorry, but you need to be specific and clear with the rules. There is a difference between a) someone who is from costa rica. (This could include anyone who was born in Costa Rica, or grew up there) b) a costa rica citizen (this person may live anywhere in the world but retains there citizen. c) a costa rican resident (this is legal permission from Costa Rica to live there for a period of time longer than what would be considered a vacation or short day d) short term visitors - Costa Rica gives them a permit of up to 90 days in order to enter the country e) vacationers - they usually stay up to 90 days.
Which of the above, a,b,c,d,& e are not allowed to play at your sportsbook. Amongst the ones that are not allowed to play, can they play when they are not physically in Costa Rica?
If you want to cancel winning bets, then you need to be specific. Just saying noone "from costa rica" can bet, what the hell does that mean? It seems to mean noone in Costa Rica who wins is going to be able to cash out. If you lose, too bad. I would strongly suggest that Bill Dozer start a list of everyone who is "from Costa Rica" in any of the ways I listed, a to e, who had losing bets at your book and demand they be refunded.
Thirdly, it is unacceptable for a book to say "we don't take professional action" without specifying what is professional action. Based on what you did, professional action seems to be any series of bets that win; again if they had lost, can you proove there would have been a refund because the bets were "professional" action? What in your opinion is pofessional action. If I shop for the best line, and your book has it, is that professional action? If I handicap a game and come up with an opinion as to who is going to win that is better than the opinions of those who helped move the line, is that profesional action? Again, if you want to cancel bets you need to be specific.
You say the IP address is allocated to a professional sportsbook? Weird, but what rule does that break. Isn't is common for employees of sportsbooks to play action at othe books. Maybe some of the employees are "from Costa Rica". Others may be working in Costa Rica illegally, but that seems like immigrations problem, not an excuse to not pay.
Where in your rules is this forbidden. Yes, it forbids bets from people who are from Costa Rica, but there are different types of people who are in Costa Rica - it was asked of you which of them were excluded and that you be specific on your site. I do have to admit, that of all the evidence so far, an IP from a professional sportsbook is suspisious, but why do you wait to see if the bets are going to win or lose before deciding whether to take this action????
If you don't want professionals, then identify them, limit them, or don't allow them. Bodog doesn't want them; VIP doesn't either; Legendz doesn't want them. These books don't steal from them, because they believe that waiting to see if bets win before deciding whether or not to take action is wrong. If you allow someone to make 26 bets, it is a little too late to say - you know what maybe we should not have allowed these bets. Its too late. PAY UP.Last edited by louis; 11-05-07, 08:51 AM.Comment -
This jumped out at me as well. I don't see how anything that happens at a book with $1000 limits on everything can (perhaps) ever be classed as ''professional action.'' Regardless of the status of the OP in this thread (which I understand is a separate issue), this kind of ''professional action'' catchall sounds like ''go ahead and win and we'll ask for documents and then look at all your bets and decide whether your action was sharp enough that we can get away without paying you.''
I have no particular opinion on the main conflict in this thread (other than wondering why people always let their balances get this high at dodgy books then come here to complain), but this undefined ''professional action'' catchall reflects badly on the book.Last edited by Ortho; 11-05-07, 09:00 AM.Comment -
No matter which side of the argument you're on, there have been some excellent points and suggestions. The charity idea is great--give it to a worthy cause like St Jude's Children Hospital or many others. I don't want to see a Fraud collect, but I also understand the point about a Book having to pay on otherwise legit bets so as to avoid being a shot-taker too. I'd like to see Beted give the money to charity and make some necessary changes to their software (and T&C's).
No matter what, this is the most captivating thread of my short time here.Comment -
I am entirely against the charity idea. Many of these books give to charity anyhow. You can't steal from someone and then give it to charity; you take from yourself and give it to charity.
These guys say in their rules, word for word, "we are unable to accept players from Costa Rica". Again, what the heck does that mean? Is that someone who was born in Costa Rica and may live anywhere in the world? Someone who is a Costa Rican citizen? Someone on vacation in Costa Rica? My interpretation, would be that "from Costa Rica" means you were either born there, or grew up there; this sexy purple poster obviously isn't from costa rica.
Their other rule is that we agree that our use of the site is "personal and not professional". Again, what the heck does this mean. Does anyone's occupation require them to use the site? The U.S. definition of this is that anyone using schedule C to declare gambling winnings and losses would be a professional gambler, otherwise they are using schedule 1040, taking loss deductions on the standard deduction form, and are not professional. There is no way anyone can tell from 26 bets if they are a professional or not and should be using schedule C.
Bet ed needs to be specific in their rules if they are going to use them to punish winners; and then the same rules need to apply to losers, and they need to receive refunds.
They also say that anyone making a bet is legally as if they came to Costa Rica to make the bet; then it also says bets from "costa Ricans" are not allow. This conflict makes clear, that just coming to Costa Rica does not violate their policy, or they would not put in a statement that every bet is as if it was made in Costa Rica.
Bet Ed, give to chartiy from your profits, but money you steal from players is not profits.Last edited by louis; 11-05-07, 09:13 AM.Comment -
I think BetEd agrrees with you and that if SGC was in Costa Rica at the time the bets were placed they will pay her.
The issue seems to be that they dont believe she placed the bets and that someone in Costa Rica placed the bets for her.
If this is the case then the fact that SGC explicitly stated she placed the bets while holidaying in Cosrta Rica suggests a scam.Comment -
This all seems pretty simple to me.....
1) The deal was if SGC can prove she was in CR at the time she opened the account then all is well. If she can not, then we never hear from her again. Let's let Bill and SBR do their thing, maybe she'll surprise?
2) Even though SGC signed away any claim a competing sportsbook would have making it a moot point, had she not it seems to me A) The book knew they were not wanted as they are "From CR", B) They knew beted would know they're professional gamblers C) If SGC can not prove she was here then the sportsbook behind the curtain certainly falsified account information which after looking at the rules would be an undisputed violation of the T/C's.
3) I messaged BBD last night telling him I'd like to see the money donated to a local charity. Since both sportsbooks and SBR are from/located/in (whatever) Costa Rica why not donate it to the flood victims here in their own backyard? It's been a horrible rainy season and people are collecting donations for the flood victims all over town.Comment -
-
I have been in contact with BetEd since they have shut my account down. They have NOT answered why they need any information other than my ID to prove I am not Costa Rican in any email. Also, they will NOT confirm the balance on my account when my account was shut down.
The only contact I have got from Dozer is to "sent the required documents". Which I am going to assume is what betED asked for. They have asked for my passport copy and the passport stamp showing I was in Costa Rica.
betED now knows that my mom sent the funds in my name to their sportsbook. They have told me this is "against their rules". They know that I bet in my fiend's office which is "against their rules." I am sure that I didn't send everything they asked for plus pint of blood when they asked within an hour it would be "against some new rules"
I will be sending my ID and a piece of mail to show that I live where I say I did on the adress I signed up for originally on betED. I will also let them call the phone # I signed up for on betED which will show that is correct. This shows that I am an American and proves all their rules.
Another piece of information that I did not think about at the time, was that orginally I called up asking for a withdraw through Western Union on the 21st of October. They stalled on this over & over and now I think I know why. They were pushing SO HARD to get my checking account information to withdraw. I believe at the time they were looking for something fishy going on thinking I could not produce more & more information. They orginally had told me they could give me $3000/week max withdrawal per their rules. The lady then said because of the large amount in my account if I gave her the checking account information it could be upped to $4500/week. As soon as I gave my checking account information and they were ready for the withdrawal, withing a couple hours my account was shut off. With all the emotion and things going on, I forgot this and it got lost in the shuffle. I would invite SBR or betED to look into this and respond.
Now, from what I understand, if they can say I lied then they dont have to pay me, I dont know what to do now. My mom did send the funds and say she was me. Nothing I can do about that. I did bet lines that were "off" in my mind, nothing I can do about that. Basically I find this to be a game that they are going down a line to prove whatever they can to the general community until I dont pass their tests.
Now, they read this forum, and they think they have found a way not to pay in saying I was not in the country, and this will satisfy everyone. I then asked them on the first email to confirm that if I sent out my passport with the stamp showing I was in Costa Rica at the times that were stated would they release said funds? They did not reply because the answer is "no". They will then focus on my Mom sending funds or where in Costa Rica I made the bets. I have also asked over and over for them to call me so can talk on the phone and deal with this. Also, I know in this day an age, no matter what I send out there will be people out their claiming it is fake.
I would like a reason from betED if I send our my ID & mail confirming home adress, why I cannot be paid? If they have any other reasons, then I think is is bull, and basically they can say to anyone at anytime they can withhold funds if they feel like it.
I dont know if 3 guys are going to show up at my door threatening me. I dont know who betED is, or who is behind them. To send them additional personal information does not sound appealing. This is why I have been avoiding this in all previous posts. Like I said before even though no one believes me, the world of ONLINE gambling is new to me.
However, we are talking about a lot of money, and if betED tells me they will pay for sure then I will send out a copy of my passport and the stamp and you can check with Costa Rican immigration. I will tell you the building that I was in. I will tell you the flight I took. This is all personal information and BS for me to show it, but for 20k, I will do what I have to do, but I know that once I show everything, then they will just talk about how I am a "professional" (nice sounding term until you find out it costs you 20k) or that I lied saying I deposited the funds when it was my mother.
Everyone, say what you want, if I show my ID & home mailing adress, and they dont pay me, I think that gives the 1000+ people who have viewed this thread a lot of reason not to post up with them.Comment -
Haha, nope Hedge, just voicing my opinion. I've pretty much given up on both sides of this argument. I would just know how I felt if a place let me signup, took my money, and then gave me some bullshit like this.Comment -
Wow, what a coincidence that you and your daughter (son) would post at the exact same time.Comment
