1. #1
    jamesrav
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    Orbit vs. Betfair

    I use Orbit (for UK horse racing) since I'm not in the UK. Today I logged on to a friends computer in London, and could access the BF site. To my surprise, the matched amounts were vastly different, Orbit was almost 10x higher than Betfair. I thought they'd be the same since Orbit is 'powered by Betfair', but apparently the 'Asian aspect' was not something I considered. All the Asian bettors are locked out of BF, but can bet using BetinAsia and AsiaConnect. But the question is: Orbit does not allow laying, so how do the matched amounts get so high? A lot of people are apparently laying horses (I assume from Asia), and not via Betfair website directly. I wonder how that can happen?

  2. #2
    Alfie White
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    Orbit forces agents to take position on their customers' bets.

    eg you see liquidity 1,000 on Orbit and 250 on Betfair. For every 10 EUR you match on Orbit, only 2.5 is matched on Betfair - meaning that 7.5 is Agent's risk against your bets. If you lose - agents/OrbitX win those 7.5 EUR, if you win, agents/OrbitX have to pay up (7.5 x odds).

  3. #3
    jamesrav
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    thanks for that answer, I didnt want to hear that though. So if I'm up (and hopefully with a method that will continue that forever), the agent will not be happy about that. I had assumed the Exchange was 'safe' in that I was simply betting against other BF people and Orbit was just grabbing a 3% commission, and doesnt care if I win (or lose). Now it sounds like if this got into the several thousands (up), they would see I'm a long-term 'winner' and potentially take action. Totally unexpected if so. I assume all the various Asian sites and others (BetInAsia, etc) are aggregating their agent matching amounts, and that's the total I see on the screen? So if I'm with ACC, they are only taking a part of a potential loss (?) ; the fact that BetInAsia might be losing is of no concern to them.

  4. #4
    infotimbo
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    it gets adjusted every now and then. You probably had a losing streak at some point, so they smelled an opportunity to make money and increased the "limits". Once they start losing too much with it, they reduce them back to normal.

    10x is the max I've seen, though. When you start a new account, it's 2,5x with most agents, I think

  5. #5
    jamesrav
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    If I'm betting primarily against agent(s) of AsiaConnect when I place a bet on Orbit, the Orbit Exchange concept is really not much different than against a sportsbook ? I'm taking from people in an environment they have control over (my participation), rather than a faceless opponent. I havent read about anyone getting banned on BF for simply winning legitimately (I know a penalty kicks in at 250K aggregate winnings), but it sounds like Orbit is a dicier situation. I guess that explains why they dont offer the BSP option

  6. #6
    infotimbo
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    yeah, it's a risky approach, and an agent could potentially lose lots of money by that - also because it's quite easy to be abused. I agree that a reliable agent normally shouldn't (need to) take major position on the customer's betfair bets.

    Not sure there's much left of the "betting against other BF people" anyway, though. It seems to be mainly bot-driven nowadays, and probably hedging elsewhere anyway? Maybe the agents use a similar system to reduce the risk when taking position on Orbit.

  7. #7
    jamesrav
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    As Mitt Romney might say "bots are people". Behind a bot is a person/syndicate who cannot affect me in any way. But if I'm betting against my 'benefactor' to some extent (AsiaConnect 'permits' me to bet on Orbit) and I win against them, that's a much different scenario than beating one of a myriad of strangers. I've been making small bets (10-20 EUR) but can see this ramping up to 80-100 EUR in the near future. The liquidity is certainly there for such a bet at racetime for a favorite on Orbit. Just have to see how this plays out, that's one reason I'm working with the guy in London. BSP on BF itself cant be any safer. Unrelated: I may start a new thread on the following question, but if anyone knows what size bet at racetime (taking BSP on BF) would really affect odds on a favorite or near favorite, I'd like any opinions. Would a 100 EUR bet change the odds, or 200 or 500? And when I say really change the payout, I mean from say 2.5 to 2.3. Going from 2.5 to 2.46 would not be a big deal.

  8. #8
    turk0011
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrav View Post
    Birleşik Krallık'ta olmadığım için Orbit'i (İngiltere at yarışı için) kullanıyorum. Bugün Londra'da bir arkadaşımın bilgisayarında oturum açtım ve BF sitesine erişebildim. Şaşırtıcı bir şekilde, eşleşen miktarlar çok farklıydı, Orbit, Betfair'den neredeyse 10 kat daha yüksekti. Orbit 'Betfair tarafından desteklendiğinden' aynı olacaklarını düşündüm, ama görünüşe göre 'Asya yönü' düşündüğüm bir şey değildi. Tüm Asyalı bahisçiler BF'nin dışında tutulmuştur, ancak BetinAsia ve AsiaConnect kullanarak bahis oynayabilirler. Ama soru şu: Orbit yumurtlamaya izin vermiyor, peki eşleşen miktarlar nasıl bu kadar yüksek oluyor? Pek çok insan görünüşe göre doğrudan Betfair web sitesi aracılığıyla değil (Asya'dan olduğunu varsayıyorum) at atıyor. Bunun nasıl olabileceğini merak ediyorum?
    Sir, if you have experience with orbit vs piwi247, which one is better?

  9. #9
    gamblehappier
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    Agents take positions on customers bets compared with Betfair.That is the reason when you will a lot you will have problem.

  10. #10
    kursonik
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    Guys, can you place 3k+ Euro bet on any market on Piwi Exchange (BACK side)?

  11. #11
    gamblehappier
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    I do not personally checked,but why have a trobule?3k especially in big leagues is small amount.

  12. #12
    kursonik
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    If you have that much money in your account then you can easily check it by putting 3001 Euro on the BACK side (any market) at some very high odds.
    My maximum is 3000 Euro ("The stake(s) you have entered are more the maximum allowed")

  13. #13
    gamblehappier
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    You may have a winning account so do not let you bet more.Contact your broker/orbit and ask them if they can solve your issue.
    Last edited by gamblehappier; 02-10-22 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #14
    kursonik
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamblehappier View Post
    You may have a winning account so do not let you bet more.Contact your broker/orbit and ask them if they can solve your issue.
    I'm talking about Piwi Exchange. I got an answer from AC that they have no control over it. Therefore, I wonder if only I have such a maximum on my account?

  15. #15
    infotimbo
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    AC has a 3k exposure limit on Orbit accounts as well, afaik. Don't think it's true that they have no control over it

  16. #16
    Radu Rachiteanu
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    Orbit Exchange

    I have an Orbit account, provided by Bet-Football. I have been trading with them for over 6 months now and the experience is just fine. I am over 8K up in winnings and they didn't shut down my account. I have no clue if the agent is taking any positions on me, but I doubt it would be something Orbit or Bet-Football require. I thinks is just down to the agent's own strategy.

  17. #17
    infotimbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radu Rachiteanu View Post
    I have no clue if the agent is taking any positions on me, but I doubt it would be something Orbit or Bet-Football require. I thinks is just down to the agent's own strategy.
    generally they do as well, but it depends on recent profit and so on. You can check yourself, by comparing the available volume on a bet before and after logging in into your account.
    Points Awarded:

    Optional gave infotimbo 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  18. #18
    goce
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    I want to ask a question abought Orbit account opened via Betinasia. I have this account and I am playing few months now.
    A couple of days ago I saw my friends account also on Orbit via Betinasia and he has bigger offers in every betting object than I have in my account.
    Example on match odds on Manchester united to win on odds 1.80 he has offer 15.000 and on same odds same market in my account I have offer 9.000.
    Also in his account if there are matched 200.000 on some market in mine in same moment are 120.000 matched.
    Why is that so?

  19. #19
    Alfie White
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    He is losing player and BIA is taking position on his bets, meaning they win when his bets lose.

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