[Barrakuda]

I’m sorry, but why would Fairlay forward all information to SBR if there was an actual formal investigation and risk pissing off or jeopardizing this agency/their investigation , why haven’t I been charged or heard anything from a third party, can an agency even freeze assets without a court order/charge? Why am I currently able to travel internationally?

I would imagine you'll need an attorney to get these answers.

[lonnie55]

I bet we will NEVER EVER learn which agency is involved. Not today, not tomorrow, not in 5 years.

[ichiro4thehall]

Degen1 has now been advised of the basic details of what has gone on here so I can share a small update.


Fairlay say that a USA based law enforcement related agency has requested the hold on these funds.

SBR has asked some questions including these;


Has this request come direct from the agency or from a lawyer or from interested third party?

How are you sure it is a bona fide request?

Will you require a proper legal order from a jurisdiction you are bound to follow (like Costa Rica courts or licensing agency) before you will hand this money to anyone apart from Degen1?


SBR asked Fairlay to consider;

Handing back the deposit and closing the account, if there is no proper legal reason forcing it to be held.

Telling Degen1 the complete story they have been told and discussing it with him re what to do.

Giving Degen1 the contact name of the person representing this 3rd party so he can argue his case directly.

Giving the third party a more reasonable time frame in which they must provide a proper legal basis for Fairlay to continue holding these funds for them. Like 14 days, or 28 days. Not the end of the year.


We have received replies, but none address any these questions or suggestions made.

As stated above Fairlay contacted SBR on Monday, we replied and are yet to hear anything more from them.

It appears that they have no answers and very probably zero legal basis to be acting in this manner. Again.




We also asked their CEO about the BetG matter;


We asked under what license or laws did they feel compelled to withhold his last deposit?

What Anti Money Laundering agency did they report this to?

Where has the money gone, or where will it go?


He asked to be given time to research what went on.

Some days later here was that response;


"BetG did not verify his identity yet.

People try to use us as a dark net bitcoin mixing service and we have to inhibit this behaviour - in fact we are required to implement procedures to prevent such misuse of our service.

So according to our terms we KYC alleged criminals / people who breach our T&Cs before allowing them to cashout.

Keep in mind that is is very very easy to make multiple anonymous accounts on Fairlay. So keeping bad people out is more difficult than with traditional bookmakers."


I find the Fairlay response to both these matters troubling.





Degen1 has maintained that the source of his funds is lawful.

SBR advised him to retain a lawyer to handle the matter further for his own protection, and to prepare a letter of demand for Fairlay to release his funds, whihc seems to be the next logical step.

Very informative update, thanks. And great job by the SBR rep, those are exactly the questions Fairlay should be asked.

This confirms that Fairlay can never be trusted.

I do not doubt it is intimidating to have US law enforcement agencies contact you and insist you do something.The fact remains, as we all understand it at least, the US Government nor any of its law enforcement agencies has jurisdiction over Fairlay.

I'm pretty sure the Fairlay CEO knows what he is currently doing is wrong but probably travels in the USA and wants to continue doing so worry free. Again, this is understandable, but means no player can ever trust Fairlay with their money as they have now verified they will comply with authorities who have absolutely no jurisdiction over them.

[ichiro4thehall]

Degen1

If you are hiring a lawyer, I'd have him look at ways to attack the Fairlay CEO under Costa Rican law that he is subject to.

He has shown he is scared of authority and I'd be very surprised if his current behaviour does not break any Costa Rican corporate laws. It might make him see your side clearer if he is as scared of you as he clearly is of the US law enforcement agency he is complying with.

[DroopyDog]

I have never gotten the impression Fairlay operates out of costa rica... maybe just their server is there? I seem to remember these guys are Eastern European

[ichiro4thehall]

I have never gotten the impression Fairlay operates out of costa rica... maybe just their server is there? I seem to remember these guys are Eastern European

Depends what you mean by operate. I don't doubt many employees spend all or most of their time not in Costa Rica. But legally they are incorporated in Costa Rica and therefore all relevant corporate law applies to them.

[raiders72001]

Very informative update, thanks. And great job by the SBR rep, those are exactly the questions Fairlay should be asked.

This confirms that Fairlay can never be trusted.

I do not doubt it is intimidating to have US law enforcement agencies contact you and insist you do something.The fact remains, as we all understand it at least, the US Government nor any of its law enforcement agencies has jurisdiction over Fairlay.

I'm pretty sure the Fairlay CEO knows what he is currently doing is wrong but probably travels in the USA and wants to continue doing so worry free. Again, this is understandable, but means no player can ever trust Fairlay with their money as they have now verified they will comply with authorities who have absolutely no jurisdiction over them.

I'll second great job by SBR. Those were the pertinent questions.

[raiders72001]

I’m sorry, but why would Fairlay forward all information to SBR if there was an actual formal investigation and risk pissing off or jeopardizing this agency/their investigation , why haven’t I been charged or heard anything from a third party, can an agency even freeze assets without a court order/charge? Why am I currently able to travel internationally?

Legal authorities aren't going to divulge any information to Fairlay that would tip off a wrongdoer. A formal charge would have to be made against you first. It will be interesting to see how Fairlay tries to save face.

[fried cheese]

maybe they are trying to use asset forfeiture to seize the bitcoins. they dont have to charge you with a crime to be able to take your stuff because they charge the actual bitcoin with the crime lol. usa vs $100k of bitcoins. i know they seize stuff in international waters so maybe they are trying it with crypto currency now.

a few years ago i read that the cops actually stole more from ppl they never charged than burglars in the usa did.

[raiders72001]

maybe they are trying to use asset forfeiture to seize the bitcoins. they dont have to charge you with a crime to be able to take your stuff because they charge the actual bitcoin with the crime lol. usa vs $100k of bitcoins. i know they seize stuff in international waters so maybe they are trying it with crypto currency now.

a few years ago i read that the cops actually stole more from ppl they never charged than burglars in the usa did.

Although depositing from an exchange muddies the water.

[littlekona]

It's obvious that there is no investigation by legal authorities. Legal authorities aren't going to divulge any information to Fairlay that would tip off a wrongdoer. A formal charge would have to be made against you first.

There is nothing obvious here...SBR knows lots more then any of us and props to them for getting involved. SBR said that they do not believe Fairlay is trying to steal funds but are in an investigation..The last statement that Fairlay put out in troll box seemed pretty straight forward if DEGEN is rightful owner or if there is ANY DOUBT who is he will get the BTC back....Once this is all sorted out Im sure SBR and Fairlay will both issues statements...

[raiders72001]

Kona- Neither of us knows the story. SBR has the most information and Optional posted

But the lack of answers to even the basic questions about if they are sure the request is bona fide implies Fairlay are at least embellishing the situation.

It appears that they have no answers and very probably zero legal basis to be acting in this manner. Again.

I find the Fairlay response to both these matters troubling.

[biccie]

I found a organisation online, they say they can help with claims against bitcoin betting scams. maybe for other people this is also interesting. I got scammed by 1xbit for at least 15.000 USD, today I have send them an email. They replied they will review my case. It is worth a try, consider the money that is involved. They claim to have lawyers and connections.
http://www.gamestrict.com

[littlekona]

I found a organisation online, they say they can help with claims against bitcoin betting scams. maybe for other people this is also interesting. I got scammed by 1xbit for at least 15.000 USD, today I have send them an email. They replied they will review my case. It is worth a try, consider the money that is involved. They claim to have lawyers and connections.
http://www.gamestrict.com

can u ask them for list of claims that they have won...
They list

• 1Xbit
• Cloudbet
• Nitrogensports

[lonnie55]

I found a organisation online, they say they can help with claims against bitcoin betting scams. maybe for other people this is also interesting. I got scammed by 1xbit for at least 15.000 USD, today I have send them an email. They replied they will review my case. It is worth a try, consider the money that is involved. They claim to have lawyers and connections.
http://www.gamestrict.com

It could be a sister-site of game-protect.com. The email address of gamestrict is similar to the one that allegedly belongs to the foundation that collects the money (same provider)

gamestrict@protonmail.com
casinocollect@protonmail.com

Game-Protect is probably a scam, read the reviews in the Bitcointalk forum. He is the least trusted user in this forum.

[ehp6737]

The scariest thing here is not fairlay's actions (or lack there of) but rather how did US authorities even get wise to this transacation in the first place? And it seems Fairlay was contacted by them almost simultaneously from the time the transaction was sent. So big brother is watching all large transactions? Pretty scary

[Optional]

I found a organisation online, they say they can help with claims against bitcoin betting scams. maybe for other people this is also interesting. I got scammed by 1xbit for at least 15.000 USD, today I have send them an email. They replied they will review my case. It is worth a try, consider the money that is involved. They claim to have lawyers and connections.
http://www.gamestrict.com

Please be careful with this.

We have been warned about scams claiming they are Curacao lawyers, or have access to them, and can win cases, if you pay them.

I am not aware of a single successful legal action taken against one of the 1xbet related operations, or any Curacao licensed bookmaker.

[raiders72001]

SBR mention in the troll box.

●Thegreenmeans: Fairlay is #1 easy think about only 2 complaints ever and both by criminals...Post your positive experience on the SBr forum as this clown is spreading lies

[degen1]

SBR mention in the troll box.

That’s just Kona

[moojoo]

That’s just Kona

Guy is nothing more than a troll.

[Alfie White]

I can't really agree that Kona is a troll - his opinions come from an honest place; but the problem is he doesn't have enough empathy and understanding that someone else might have issues with a place he cherishes and uses regularly.

[littlekona]

I can't really agree that Kona is a troll - his opinions come from an honest place; but the problem is he doesn't have enough empathy and understanding that someone else might have issues with a place he cherishes and uses regularly.

that's a good point since. Since I was introduced to Fairlay by a poster @ SBR I have seen it grow from the old fairlay to the new site.. it's different then any other sites esp the responsive communication that you can have with admins about the site and how they can improve...Its most transparent site I use and I really feel the guys are sincere hardworking honest that run site...My whole point here is that there are bad guys in the gambling amongst us in community and if they scam they need to accept the consequences. Fairlay made the statement that the rightful owner of the BTC will get it and if there is any question or doubt who that is Degen will get it and it will be completed by Dec 31....that seems very fair to me....As far as investigations go at least the ones I see here typically there is no information from most books...So obviously Failray is trying to figure this out and speaking with SBR w details though not as in depth as we would like....I will also say my volume is down at Fairlay due to the UK horse market maker not posting the last few months. I have been using AC88 as my #1 and have nothing but good experience BUT the current case that is in forum regarding the FAIR EXCHANGE that I find troubling and the guy to me seems transparent and bet logs seem normal with no fund passing that is obvious..The no explanation and seizing of funds with that case even though I am heavy user of AC88 troubles me greatly..

[Craig22]

that's a good point since. Since I was introduced to Fairlay by a poster @ SBR I have seen it grow from the old fairlay to the new site.. it's different then any other sites esp the responsive communication that you can have with admins about the site and how they can improve...Its most transparent site I use and I really feel the guys are sincere hardworking honest that run site...My whole point here is that there are bad guys in the gambling amongst us in community and if they scam they need to accept the consequences. Fairlay made the statement that the rightful owner of the BTC will get it and if there is any question or doubt who that is Degen will get it and it will be completed by Dec 31....that seems very fair to me....As far as investigations go at least the ones I see here typically there is no information from most books...So obviously Failray is trying to figure this out and speaking with SBR w details though not as in depth as we would like....I will also say my volume is down at Fairlay due to the UK horse market maker not posting the last few months. I have been using AC88 as my #1 and have nothing but good experience BUT the current case that is in forum regarding the FAIR EXCHANGE that I find troubling and the guy to me seems transparent and bet logs seem normal with no fund passing that is obvious..The no explanation and seizing of funds with that case even though I am heavy user of AC88 troubles me greatly..

AC88 never seized the funds, it was Fair Exchange, though I agree Asian Connect needs to be held liable for offering them.

[littlekona]

AC88 never seized the funds, it was Fair Exchange, though I agree Asian Connect needs to be held liable for offering them.

Yes Sorry I miss spoke there

[raiders72001]

that's a good point since. Since I was introduced to Fairlay by a poster @ SBR I have seen it grow from the old fairlay to the new site.. it's different then any other sites esp the responsive communication that you can have with admins about the site and how they can improve...Its most transparent site I use and I really feel the guys are sincere hardworking honest that run site...My whole point here is that there are bad guys in the gambling amongst us in community and if they scam they need to accept the consequences. Fairlay made the statement that the rightful owner of the BTC will get it and if there is any question or doubt who that is Degen will get it and it will be completed by Dec 31....that seems very fair to me....As far as investigations go at least the ones I see here typically there is no information from most books...So obviously Failray is trying to figure this out and speaking with SBR w details though not as in depth as we would like....I will also say my volume is down at Fairlay due to the UK horse market maker not posting the last few months. I have been using AC88 as my #1 and have nothing but good experience BUT the current case that is in forum regarding the FAIR EXCHANGE that I find troubling and the guy to me seems transparent and bet logs seem normal with no fund passing that is obvious..The no explanation and seizing of funds with that case even though I am heavy user of AC88 troubles me greatly..

We seem to agree on everything except Fairlay. I disagree on almost everything posted above and that's not an overreach. Here are a couple of examples. Fairlay isn't transparent since the aren't answering questions from SBR. It's not plausible that Fairlay is working with US authorities.

[littlekona]

We seem to agree on everything except Fairlay and disagree on everything Fairlay since I disagree with almost everything posted above. I'll just mention a couple. Fairlay isn't transparent since the aren't answering questions from SBR. It's not plausible that Fairlay is working with US authorities.

Raiders, How could you agree as you do not use Fairlay and have no direct experience using them over the years... I said this is getting way to way wayyyy too messy and I believe you or other posters admitted that DEGEN1 most likely has committed some sort of fraud or obtained stolen coins...If I where Fairlay I would like i said in prior post just send the coins back to the last address he DEGEN sent from if that is possible which I think it is and just be done with this...What do you suggest? Sending back to last address should make everyone happy and if DEGEN is innocent bada bing bada boom he has coins and if it was not his the rightful owner gets..

[fried cheese]

i dont know if i would say its likely he committed a crime. he did transfer from an exchange. im not sure how easy it would be to get into someone elses exchange account and transfer the funds. do some exchanges not have 2 factor authentication?

[raiders72001]

Raiders, I said this is getting way to way wayyyy too messy and I believe you or other posters admitted that DEGEN1 most likely has committed some sort of fraud or obtained stolen coins...If I where Fairlay I would like i said in prior post just send the coins back to the last address he DEGEN sent from if that is possible which I think it is and just be done with this...What do you suggest? Sending back to last address should make everyone happy and if DEGEN is innocent bada bing bada boom he has coins and if it was not his the rightful owner gets..

I've never said that degen committed a crime although that doesn't matter. It's practically inconceivable that Fairlay is working with US authorities with the facts given. The only way this would be possible is if Fairlay, on their own accord, turned degen in for some crime.

[raiders72001]

The money shouldn't be returned to the last address since the money came from an exchange. Give degen his money back. He's even complied with KYC.

[littlekona]

i dont know if i would say its likely he committed a crime. he did transfer from an exchange. im not sure how easy it would be to get into someone elses exchange account and transfer the funds. do some exchanges not have 2 factor authentication?

The main exchange I use is pretty tight BUT if someone stole or I lost my phone and they figured my 4 digit exchange app or wallet code I would be sunk...Who knows what went down here BUT something triggered...

[TheMoneyShot]

Why would Fairlay keep digging their own grave? lol Clown college.

[littlekona]

Why would Fairlay keep digging their own grave? lol Clown college.

they are smart guys but I agree this has gotten out of hand. This is not typical case esp since its 6 figures and if it is stolen or if its not can affect many peoples lives...Its life changing money at least for most of us round here...They should of just sent it back to where it came from to begin with when suspicion occurred and case closed....Better then a soap opera though I will admit the forum

[Craig22]

They aren't going to pay out- these are just stalling tactics to try and get this to blow over. The best way to give Degen's funds back is to get everyone to stop playing there. Notice how they give ambiguous answers to SBR's requests and won't go into detail etc... because they have no basis to hold funds. Should be a warning to everyone: any offshore sports book that is outside of any regulatory body will continue to payout customers only if it is beneficial for them to do so. If the operations start to break down, seems reasonable they will rob a high volume player to keep everything running smoothly.

[littlekona]

They aren't going to pay out- these are just stalling tactics to try and get this to blow over. The best way to give Degen's funds back is to get everyone to stop playing there. Notice how they give ambiguous answers to SBR's requests and won't go into detail etc... because they have no basis to hold funds. Should be a warning to everyone: any offshore sports book that is outside of any regulatory body will continue to payout customers only if it is beneficial for them to do so. If the operations start to break down, seems reasonable they will rob a high volume player to keep everything running smoothly.

if they keep it for profit I will be the first to scream foul and not use them again. Until then they have said by DEC 31 they will take action and hopefully sooner.....I still think that sending btc back to address it came from solves all their problems and gets them out this mess

[mrpapageorgio]

if they keep it for profit I will be the first to scream foul and not use them again. Until then they have said by DEC 31 they will take action and hopefully sooner.....I still think that sending btc back to address it came from solves all their problems and gets them out this mess

Only problem for a Dec 31st deadline is what remedy does he have if the price of Bitcoin severely drops by then?
Hell, even playing devil's advocate, if the third party is a victim, what remedy do they have if the price drops and now they're out lost value if it gets turned over to them.

Are they going to compensate the rightful party for the loss of value he incurred because he couldn't sell since they seem to want to play custodian/trustee of the Bitcoin?


This is where I'm confused because I would assume the "law-enforcement agency" would understand why it's better to settle the matter sooner than later because of how volatile the bitcoin market it.


Another side "what if", are they going to pay interest for holding onto the Bitcoin?