1. #36
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Nickle View Post
    Speak of the devil. Wagerr is going to be a currency in and of itself correct? So as the volume of bets rises during the football season can't we expect a large increase in price for wagerr and a corresponding decline in value as the season ends and betting falls off? Aren't our returns going to be largely dependent on the price of wagerr more so than our actual betting?
    Yes it'll be its own currency on its own chain, which is specifically designed for betting(and possibly other kinds of gambling). And yeah I would expect some price changes due to events and such, but this will be tied into exchanges also so there will be investors expecting this...which may help to keep it a bit steady. Or if you're feeling particularly brave you could maybe take a shot at playing the wgr market alongside your bets. Another thing is that at least half of all total tokens will be tied up in masternodes on 30-day contracts...so not only will they help to cover all of the possible bets, but they will keep the majority of the total wgr pool fixed into place for the month.
    As for returns vs. actual betting - Actual betting will be very important in the early stages, it will likely be at its softest especially with only h2h betting in the beginning. You could run it up quite a bit while also possibly seeing a rise in wgr prices at the same time. Which leads in to investing in the first place, the huge potential rewards justify even a very high risk of failure. An added bonus is it sends a message to the current books that there's a much more efficient way to handle bets, I'd be very surprised if they aren't already looking at smart contracts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Nickle View Post
    Open an account with wagerr. Place no bets. Get rich.
    pfff...i'll be betting it up from day 1 since it's mainly why i got in anyway, in it to degen it. Besides almost half of the fees get permanently destroyed anyway so the early stages will be deflationary. To compensate for the eventual rampant deflation later on, 1m wgr will be minted each year to help keep the total supply from going too low(don't want it going down to 1 coin lol). The reasoning is to sort of reward early adopters but mainly for the future to keep the price more stable than the massive swings we've seen in other cryptos. A self-correcting system is basically is what it is designed to be, looks pretty solid on paper but in the wild you never know I suppose.
    Also developers and such have limitations on how much they can sell and when, they also must give everyone notice before making any big sales. Which I thought was kinda nice of them, especially since they are taking quite a bit less than they could have(and others did or plan to do). They're taking a pretty big risk themselves compared to others, and have a ton of incentive to make this work.
    Personally I want to see this done for poker too, once we have both decentralized betting and poker I'll be happy.
    Last edited by lotuspod; 06-05-17 at 05:02 PM.

  2. #37
    Buffalo Nickle
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    pfff...i'll be betting it up from day 1 since it's mainly why i got in anyway, in it to degen it...
    It will be interesting to follow the progress. You've got this PEERplays alongside it both coming out at the same time and with the same intentions although it seems to cast its net very wide and not really focus much on sports gambling and maybe just be some sort of hub for other providers.

    It looks more like a play for money to me with these efforts all coming out at the same time and with the same strategy but we will see where it leads.

  3. #38
    Optional
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    @Lotuspod thanks for adding more info and if you can keep the thread up to date with milestones that would be great.

    I want to be positive but with a system designed with so much internal manipulation of the price built in, along with 'rewarding early adopters' most (ie first investors) I am very skeptical the betting solution will come out very well.

    Have they spoken about how grading will be handled? By them? Or consensus systems?


    We don't need a blockchain tech exchange that uses a propriety currency set up to be controlled by someone... we just need an awesome platform where we can bet against other gamblers directly using any currency we like. Crypto, derivative of fiat, or whatever.

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  4. #39
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    be weary another scam

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  5. #40
    lotuspod
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    The economic system did throw me off a bit, but it's done in such a transparent way that I wouldn't really call it internal...it's meant to be a decentralized system after all. The rewards for early adoption are pretty standard in the crypto world and pretty much anywhere else, and the bonuses for this were actually very tame compared to some other recent ICOs giving out massive rewards to their initial investors. They even built a calculator for us to test different market conditions and see their effects on the currency, giving us some idea what to expect and letting us make preparations/adjustments for different situations. Given their outlook, I doubt outright price manipulation will be a problem and the team would be more than happy to include appropriate safeguards if you can find situations where this could happen. On the topic of this, David would probably be annoyed with me if I didn't include a link to his paper that talks about some of this:

    https://news.wagerr.com/bit-by-bit-a...entralization/

    From what I've seen, you don't have to get in early. Waiting to get in later has a whole number of benefits too, the main one being stability and just the guarantee of seeing everything up and running before spending a dime. You aren't very likely to see a mass devaluation, but you probably won't see your wgr go up by as much as it had before either. You'll have to rely more on solid betting then, but hey it'll still at least be one more book you can check for potential value. And the low fees would put pressure on traditional books to bring their costs down, which is always good for us.

    Pretty much everything will be handled by consensus, since there won't be a central authority. The currency won't be proprietary, and I'm guessing people will eventually be able to add on their own customizations and such...as long as it can still communicate properly with the rest of the network of course. Once it's up and running, nobody really knows exactly where it will go since it will be a community-driven project at that point and any changes will require a 2/3 masternode consensus.
    Last edited by lotuspod; 06-06-17 at 07:45 PM.
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  6. #41
    lotuspod
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    The devs just released the demo wallet and link is below. Just remember - it's not tied in to the testnet or main network (yet) so all of the data in it is just sample data for now. Also remember that it's a very, very early peek at what it will look like from the user's end and there is a lot more that will likely be added/changed.

    https://wagerr.com/#demo

    If anyone can find any problems or possible improvements, the devs would be happy to hear of them and try to address them.

  7. #42
    PaperTrail07
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    So many like this coming out....does it hold any weight....like potcoin...

  8. #43
    PaperTrail07
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    They will if certain books keep scamming their CC.....
    Quote Originally Posted by BrickJames View Post
    Guys over 40 are not getting into BTC

  9. #44
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaperTrail07 View Post
    So many like this coming out....does it hold any weight....like potcoin...
    That was another one of the things I looked into. There are others capable of doing sports betting, but it isn't a priority for them...it's more like a tiny footnote. Their focus is on other things, while this one was designed purely for betting and should be able to handle larger amounts of bets than any of the others.


    A good example would be to look at the confirm times of some of these coins, you're looking at hours in some cases. Or even outages because of non-betting related issues, like we've been seeing with the major exchanges lately. These delays and such just wouldn't be acceptable for sports betting, the game could be halfway over before the bet fully goes through lol.
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  10. #45
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    The devs just released the demo wallet and link is below. Just remember - it's not tied in to the testnet or main network (yet) so all of the data in it is just sample data for now. Also remember that it's a very, very early peek at what it will look like from the user's end and there is a lot more that will likely be added/changed.

    https://wagerr.com/#demo

    If anyone can find any problems or possible improvements, the devs would be happy to hear of them and try to address them.
    It looks more like a sportsbook interface where someone sets the odds, than an exchange style where I can make offers.

    Is that correct?



    Being able to buy and sell points easily looks good. Interface nice and simple to use.

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  11. #46
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    It looks more like a sportsbook interface where someone sets the odds, than an exchange style where I can make offers.

    Is that correct?



    Being able to buy and sell points easily looks good. Interface nice and simple to use.
    The initial odds can be pulled from pretty much anywhere reputable, or even averaged and/or weighted by quality somehow...it all depends on what the consensus is I'm assuming. After that, the dynamic odds balancing system should kick in and automatically adjust the odds as needed.

    The above applies mainly to betting directly against the chain, but for h2h betting it will be much more simple so that's why it will be the first betting format available. For h2h it would basically be a marketplace to make/take bets for a much smaller fee than direct on-chain betting(roughly -102 for h2h vs.-106 for on-chain).
    Last edited by lotuspod; 06-15-17 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #47
    lotuspod
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    Another update - The Waves exchange just verified the real wgr tokens(some scammers made similar fake coins lol), the legit ones have a green checkmark by them and the waves asset identifier for them should start with 8t8(and a ton of extra characters after). Some buy orders are already up, but the waves tokens haven't been released yet so trading hasn't started except for a few small test trades from what the transaction records looks like. They are due to be released anytime, likely within the next few days.

    You will probably need the waves lite client, which has a wallet/exchange/etc all built into it and very low fees compared to other major cryptos(can make trades for about a penny lol). It's also quite fast and isn't as prone to the scaling issues of eth and others, all of these factors is why the dev team chose waves...add to that other some other very intelligent groups are jumping over to there also.

    First off a good starting place to learn about it if you don't know much about waves - wavescommunity.com

    Here's what you'll need to get started and be ready before any action starts - waveswallet.io or get the waves lite client from the google app store. Make sure it stays updated to the latest version!

  13. #48
    Optional
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    What is waves exactly?

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  14. #49
    lotuspod
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    It's similar to ethereum, but waves supporters might flame me for that quick comparison lol. It relies on proof-of-stake, which is what eth seeks to change to eventually iirc. It has a decentralized exchange built-in and trades are very cheap.

    http://wavescommunity.com/what-do-yo...wavesplatform/

  15. #50
    Optional
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    And what has Waves got to do with Wagerr now?

    You came back to the thread and started posting about this like everyone should understand what relationship it has without any explanation.

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  16. #51
    lotuspod
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    Also I forgot to mention that the testnet will go live sometime in the next month or two. We will be hammering away at the system trying to find bugs and break things because we want things to be rock-solid before the mainnet launches, especially for hardcore degens such as myself

    Help from experienced bettors would be greatly appreciated, and there possibly could be a bounty system for finding serious problems. Many of the investors and others in our current circle of support aren't very experienced with betting(to put it nicely)...so having the help of some of the betting-savvy SBR crowd would help ensure we get a high-quality system that strives to include everything you want and none of what you don't.

  17. #52
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    And what has Waves got to do with Wagerr now?

    You came back to the thread and started posting about this like everyone should understand what relationship it has without any explanation.
    Ohh sorry man, yeah I should've expanded on it a lot better now that I'm looking at it...I had a lot going on at the time because of the initial market craziness but again that's still not a good excuse on my part for not including the proper info. Thanks for pointing it out to me, I tend to assume a bit and/or get ahead of myself sometimes.

    Waves is the platform hosting the temporary tokens until the mainnet goes live, many investors wanted a quick way to trade and this was the optimal solution. Other crypto exchanges can (and likely will) eventually add the token, or they may choose to wait until mainnet and the real tokens. These temporary waves tokens can be exchanged at a 1:1 rate for the real tokens when the mainnet launches. The good news is that Waves is one of the most user-friendly platforms and should be fairly easy to understand, even for non-techy users. The wavescommunity site I mentioned has a ton of info that will help explain things better and in far more detail than I could.

    Also if you already bought some from the ICO, you can just leave it on the wagerr site if you don't want to deal with the whole Waves thing...it's completely optional(no pun intended lol). In short, wagerr just hit its first crypto stock exchange. You have to be extremely careful though especially because it is a decentralized exchange (pretty much the wild west of cryptos/exchanges) and joining the wagerr Slack channel is the best way to get quick advice and answers.

    Most importantly, the real wagerr asset has a Green checkmark by it...not the black one! If you feel uncomfortable at all with investing in it, definitely wait until you see enough progress in the project to justify your potential investment. Don't rely on me or anyone else to make the final decision for you, just research it to the best of your ability and get in if/when you feel it is best for you. I'll try to be around here and on slack to help with any questions or problems...I've checked in here nearly every day.

    Also I'd be down for your poker tournaments/leagues if you have any omaha or especially plo8 events, I'm sorta decent at it I guess
    Last edited by lotuspod; 07-01-17 at 11:51 AM.

  18. #53
    Kindred
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    I passed on this one.
    I'm hoping for a matchbook like decentralized market, the old matchbook not the current one. Not sure anyone will pull it off decentralized but still I really miss the old matchbook.
    I know there are projects like Augur but I gave up on them and dumped my ICO tokens a long time ago. Not sure there is a great decentralized solution for sports betting yet.

  19. #54
    lotuspod
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    It could be possible if there is enough demand for a UI similar to the old matchbook, after all it'll be open source. Eventually I'd expect to see different clients and tie-ins to other sites/software. It's easier to think of wagerr being the betting protocol and all of the associated solutions and such, rather than being its own complete platform. A common phrase that comes up when explaining it, especially as it relates to legality and/or regulation - "There is no platform."

    Yeah it's good to pass unless you want a huge longshot gamboool right now or are supportive of the devs/idea, as the testnet isn't even out yet and you never really know until then. However, once it starts there will be value for everyone....it won't be some closed-minded group who aren't accepting of newcomers because they didn't support it early enough for their liking. Anyone can get in for free and have some fun once the network is up and running, my experience is mostly from the poker world so I'll be pushing for some kind of freeroll-type things as soon as it goes live. And as I was starting to talk about a few posts ago, solid contributions to development / maintenance / testing / marketing / etc will make themselves eligible for rewards.

  20. #55
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindred View Post
    I passed on this one.
    I'm hoping for a matchbook like decentralized market, the old matchbook not the current one. Not sure anyone will pull it off decentralized but still I really miss the old matchbook.
    I know there are projects like Augur but I gave up on them and dumped my ICO tokens a long time ago. Not sure there is a great decentralized solution for sports betting yet.
    The trouble is that the solution we yearn for does not have investors to pay off and a company with profit motives to run it.

    But it requires MANY man hours to build and perfect, so no one without a profit motive is doing it.

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  21. #56
    Memento
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    Are any of you familiar with NoLimitCoin? It is the crypto behind NoLimit Fantasy Sports that did a trial run last year with fantasy NFL and soccer using their NLC2 crypto. They will be going full scale August 1 with soccer and then NFL in september. Launching new site and ad spend next week. Anyway...they are introducing a p2p nfl stat game with over 100 betting categories using the nlc2 crypto....and it is rake free. Dev says he has been working on this for 3 years and spent $100K on this p2p game. The fantasy games are suppose to be 5% rake. Anyway...could be promising. Here are the links:

    http://www.cryptofantasysports.com - new site next week or so

    http://www.nflstatchallenge.com - wont go live until mid August but you can watch the dev show it off in this video at the 10:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMkHVeGHOo0&t=982s

  22. #57
    lotuspod
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    I guess because the fight will be so big, they opened up temporary betting on the mayweather/mcgregor fight. It's not on the actual Wagerr network yet since it's still in development, just a simple system using the Waves platform. I didn't quite like how it was presented/structured, one reason is that you can't see the odds before you make your pick and the whole thing might seem a bit complicated if you aren't familiar with crypto.

    The odds currently are at +/-550 with a 2% fee which will be burned, lowering the overall supply of wgr a bit. Probably worth betting some and getting a lil use out of them, especially if you've been holding them anyway.

  23. #58
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    I guess because the fight will be so big, they opened up temporary betting on the mayweather/mcgregor fight. It's not on the actual Wagerr network yet since it's still in development, just a simple system using the Waves platform. I didn't quite like how it was presented/structured, one reason is that you can't see the odds before you make your pick and the whole thing might seem a bit complicated if you aren't familiar with crypto.

    The odds currently are at +/-550 with a 2% fee which will be burned, lowering the overall supply of wgr a bit. Probably worth betting some and getting a lil use out of them, especially if you've been holding them anyway.
    Fascinating. I didn't have time to read all the posts, but am I right in assuming you're part of the development team, Lotus?

    I joined your slack, so I should be able to catch up, but when I first saw the video I assumed this was an app running on ETH, but now I'm thinking that's wrong(?) When we bet with you, will we be using Waves or are you guys your very own coin? (Apologies; I'm sure those answers are in the 56 previous posts; I just don't have time to read them all.)

  24. #59
    PROPlayerinSBR
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    Thanks for your sharing.

  25. #60
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    Fascinating. I didn't have time to read all the posts, but am I right in assuming you're part of the development team, Lotus?
    I joined your slack, so I should be able to catch up, but when I first saw the video I assumed this was an app running on ETH, but now I'm thinking that's wrong(?) When we bet with you, will we be using Waves or are you guys your very own coin? (Apologies; I'm sure those answers are in the 56 previous posts; I just don't have time to read them all.)
    Nah I'm not a developer(degenerate maybe more accurate for me), and once it is released I think further development will be done by a bounty system or something similar since it will be decentralized and open-source. So I guess anyone could be a potential dev for this...if they can build the proverbial better mouse trap.

    Thankfully it won't be on eth, it'll be its own coin based on a fork of Dash. This means it'll be a proof-of-stake system which is much more friendly to holders, since they can lease their coins to essentially do the work of the miners and collect the associated rewards. It also means they can structure bets and reduce some potential risks in ways that wouldn't be possible with a fiat-based book or even one that is tied to btc/eth.

    But things are never usually perfect or even easy, so there's still a lot of work left to be done and some pretty big hurdles to clear.

  26. #61
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    It also means they can structure bets and reduce some potential risks in ways that wouldn't be possible with a fiat-based book
    This sounds interesting.

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  27. #62
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    Nah I'm not a developer(degenerate maybe more accurate for me)
    Heh, heh, heh. Cool, I think I'll give wagerr the proverbial college try.

  28. #63
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    Heh, heh, heh. Cool, I think I'll give wagerr the proverbial college try.
    There's still at least a month or a few months until the testnet though, and even longer for the actual network so there's no rush. You might even get it cheaper by waiting for a dip in prices, probably a bit after the floyd/conor fight. If anyone is trying to buy a fairly large amount(for a few masternodes or more), it's usually best if they do it in smaller pieces over time to avoid pushing the price up too much before much of your buy order can fill.

    Also there's been a ton of bets on mcgregor so far with wgr, so the mayweather -550 line won't be getting any worse for awhile it seems.
    Last edited by lotuspod; 08-09-17 at 11:40 PM.

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  30. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by hossa8110 View Post
    Probably the most important sentence in there, this is very good news since this would mean they have working proof of one of the core concepts...managing bets and their associated info on a blockchain. We won't know for sure though until the testnet is released for us to play with. It's going to take a lot of effort from the community to try and find bugs and other issues with it before the main network is released. If anyone wants a rough idea how it will likely look though, dig up some info on Dash and its masternodes/nodes since this will be a modified version of it.

    "On our internal private testnet we have tested a head to head blockchain bet, successfully embedding betting information into the transactions. "

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  32. #67
    lotuspod
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    Small Update - The fight odds changed from -550/+550 to -450/+450 with the same 2% fee.

  33. #68
    lotuspod
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    4.8m wgr was bet in total on the mayweather fight, or nearly 3% of the entire available supply. Because betting was so heavy on conor, there was about 1.6m wgr left over that the house would normally keep (or hedge/arb elsewhere?) in return for the risk on the exposure. Instead the team was generous and decided to burn those tokens along with all of the fees collected, removing them from the economy permanently and lowering the overall total supply. So those who had bet on mayweather basically got a double win, and even those who lost had some positive news.

    Hopefully we get a chance to burn some more tokens soon, it was pretty fun to see the comments from some of the guys...many had never placed a bet before trying this one. There was one or a few who had all of their wgr riding on it, and I'm now fairly certain we'll see some pretty wild stuff once the actual network is up and running.

  34. #69
    lotuspod
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    New updates just came out, testnet is getting closer and the dev team found a potential security hole which they're working on patching. They brought a new project manager onboard who will help them bring more high-quality developers into the project. The first version of the new wallet is ready, and will eventually include a token swap feature to help us with the move from waves to the main network. There's a browser version, a google app, or you can get the code straight from github.

    https://wallet.wagerr.com/

    https://github.com/wagerr/waves-lite-wallet

    Also they're going to offer more bets while the main network is still in development. This should be really good for us since a lot of wgr will get burned and there will probably be some good lines to take advantage of.

  35. #70
    mikel45
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    i have a friend working in this project. If you need some piece of information, i can send him the questions.
    He also works in another similar project calle STOX

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