1. #316
    eaglesfan371
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    So I read one comment on this post. FYI 9/10 new "alt coins" which serve some glorious purpose, wow secure sportsbetting, no scams possible, orrrr poker on an alt blockchain, they never work.

    Its a bunch of "smart" people who create beautiful presentations to get a quick several million to sell at IPO. Then once they get the funds what is their motivation? Face a lot of scrutiny, challenge, hell maybe even legal issues, or just walk away with several million and enjoy time on some exotic beach.

    Hence why alt coins are pretty much all scams or ponzi schemes in my view.

  2. #317
    danshan11
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    Wagerr is not a ponzi in that sense IMHO but what it is a good high paying ass job for the people that started it and when that ICO funding runs out they will just kind of disappear and be back working in some tech shop in Canada or like you said on the beach with the smoking high salaries earned well the ICO was running, its a ponzi type scheme without the jail time or warrants.

    we came
    we built it
    never stole a penny just earned 7 figure salaries as CEO,CFO, COO and whatever other CXX you can come up with
    now it is not feasible because users dont want to do a big headache coin to coin to coin to cash and backwards to get the funds out, the fee structure is just too high for anyone to use it for betting and our user base has shrunk we paid taxes never kept a cent EXCEPT OUR hard earned salaries and we are closing the doors, The perfect crime!

  3. #318
    danshan11
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshan11 View Post
    ok, lets use your example
    on PInnacle I would have gotten 2.97 on Madrid so I bet 1 dollar and make 1.97 take home spend
    and on wagerr what would i have gotten on Madrid ? 1.88?????

    whats up ?? you did not read this or what? can you answer I am really excited to get started with wagerr if it pays more than pinny!

  4. #319
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshan11 View Post
    whats up ?? you did not read this or what? can you answer I am really excited to get started with wagerr if it pays more than pinny!
    Because cherry-picking one line is meaningless, especially with odds changing on both networks. Only the major pinny markets are better than WGR by 0.5% (2.5% overround vs 3%). Everywhere else is higher than 3%. Also pinny isn't available globally, so it's not an accurate comparison for many users. Lastly, when h2h betting is released for WGR the scheduled fee on profit (2%) for that would only result in an overround of 1%.

  5. #320
    danshan11
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    cherry picking LMAO, IT WAS YOUR EXAMPLE!

  6. #321
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshan11 View Post
    cherry picking LMAO, IT WAS YOUR EXAMPLE!
    I stated why I chose it, it was even odds to make the math faster/easier to understand. Maybe cherry-picking wasn't the right term, but was less effort than saying you chose to compare it to pinny and chose a line that most likely wasn't around the same time since it was far higher than 0.5%, 1.97 vs. 1.88

    The fees have been discussed in detail plenty before, I honestly didn't want to respond to you because it's clearly turning less sincere and more into trolling/derailment.

  7. #322
    danshan11
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    wouldnt it be easier to just answer the question?

  8. #323
    danshan11
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    I think your no response kinda seals the wagerr debate

  9. #324
    Bao Jingyan
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    Can someone who has been following Wagerr since the beginning provide a summary?

    It appears to be performing better than most of that initial wave of 2017 ICOs...

  10. #325
    bigtymer56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bao Jingyan View Post
    Can someone who has been following Wagerr since the beginning provide a summary?

    It appears to be performing better than most of that initial wave of 2017 ICOs...
    Super short summary - They've succeeded in enabling betting on a blockchain. Not decentralized yet. Team runs everything currently. They are currently working on new a wallet that allows them to list more betting events among other things.

  11. #326
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshan11 View Post
    i think if we knew what most books were doing behind the scenes we would not bet anywhere, fairlay at this moment is as safe as any, now can this change in 1 second OF COURSE
    Quote from the fairlay thread, seems there's a bit of a double-standard going on. Wagerr is one of the very few, if not the only, that transparently (and easily) shows all of the inner workings, balances, and traffic down to each specific bet and payout(using crypto addresses, not personal info).

    You can also view the WGR exchanges before even placing a bet, to get an idea of the expected trade liquidity and estimate any potential likely slippage. Furthermore, you can set your own buy/sell orders to a more favorable exchange rate with some patience...which helps to reduce or nullify earlier fees incurred.

    Lastly, the whole pinny/wgr comparison is nowhere near apples-to-apples which nullifies the whole foundation of the entire argument in the first place. Of the 6% WGR fee compared to Pinny 5%, 3% of the WGR is burned which benefits everyone proportionally and another 2.4% is returned to users running MNs and eventually Oracles. Only 0.6% is currently allocated to the development fund. For an average participating WGR user(running MN(s)), it could be seen like comparing WGR to as low as 0.6% (or possibly lower with more MNs?) to Pinny 5%. It's just value being added indirectly to the community as a whole, instead of to specific individuals.


    Why do you think people are continuing to bet here in larger and larger numbers each month (over 80m WGR total bet so far) if everywhere else was so much better? Nearly every other crypto betting network has lost substantial BTC value and betting volume in this extended bear market, yet this one hasn't...things are obviously being done the right way - even if it may not seem like it to outside observers at certain times.

    None of this includes one of the major end goals of having the betting exchange slowly take over, with its drastically lower fees. However the most important things to note on a macro-level are the incentives in play. Traditional exchanges have little-to-no incentive to push their exchange once it reaches a certain size, they can make more by pushing their higher-fee sportsbook side and charging premiums to exchange users. For WGR, the sportsbook-style betting we have now carries some inflationary risk to the chain. Even with the planned fees for the WGR exchange being much lower, the lack of inflationary risk (since users betting against each other) should give it more than enough long-term incentive over on-chain/sportsbook-style.
    Last edited by lotuspod; 03-11-19 at 08:39 PM.

  12. #327
    danshan11
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    all that is really good information if I could understand it. I bet on sports not ICO's or alt coins. You act like Wagerr coin has not tanked just like bitcoin. the fees for a bettor to use wagerr are higher than Pinnacle and Fairlay and really any other exchange. I have not compared wagerr to dime shops because obviously people betting at dime shops dont even care about the cost.

  13. #328
    lotuspod
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    A few recent screenshots of the new Electron wallet while private testing is underway. It's much faster and easier to use, with far more events than the previous QT wallet.







  14. #329
    danshan11
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    it looks great are the fees comparable to any major shops now?

  15. #330
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshan11 View Post
    it looks great are the fees comparable to any major shops now?
    It's been discussed here plenty already, with the release of h2h the initial fees are scheduled for 2% on it. The 6% for on-chain is certainly comparable, especially given that there aren't really any hard limits - just the 10k wgr max for each single bet. All are subject to change, Oracles would have to vote on it when the time comes.

  16. #331
    bigtymer56
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    Lotus are you done with Wagerr? Saw a bunch of team members left.

  17. #332
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtymer56 View Post
    Lotus are you done with Wagerr? Saw a bunch of team members left.
    Yes we left as a group and are still in pretty close contact(us non-ION guys), sorry it took so long to reply but a lot has been going on. It was becoming clearer and clearer that it was too centralized and a whole host of other issues - including missing/unaccounted funds that could total up to roughly $40mm.

    The Ionomy team is practically running everything from the shadows it seems, WGR ico funds are likely not being used at its sole benefit, and they have no betting experience left on the team...nor much funds left.

    Good news is that it has opened up whole new possibilities on an industry that will inevitably see the return of power rightfully back to the bettors/users...through consensus. I hope to be a part of the team that makes it happen and will do my best to see that things are done the right way for the users.

    Definitely don't sleep on this space though, the next few years are going to be very interesting

  18. #333
    eaglesfan371
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    Crypto ICOs: offer amazing promises

    1-2 years later: large majority of money paid out in extremely high development salaries / kept by “ICO founders”

    Project fizzles out, money left unaccounted for, nothing actually happens

    Rinse and repeat, make millions.

    That is what 95% of these crypto funds do. Majority are scams, no end product created.

    @optional this is a serious post, not a troll. Alt coin ICOs and crypto projects that raise capital are NOTORIOUS for this scheme. Google and you will see that over 50% of such crypto projects “run out of money” after raising millions.
    Last edited by eaglesfan371; 06-25-19 at 10:32 AM.

  19. #334
    bookie
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    @lotuspod...Wagerr seemed very unfocused in its mission so I didn't really track it. But was it at the point that people were buying those tokens to bet?

    Also @lotuspod, would be curious to hear: What are your lessons learned from associating with this enterprise?

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  20. #335
    raiders72001
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    Thanks for the info lotuspod. Good thread.

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  21. #336
    bigtymer56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspod View Post
    Yes we left as a group and are still in pretty close contact(us non-ION guys), sorry it took so long to reply but a lot has been going on. It was becoming clearer and clearer that it was too centralized and a whole host of other issues - including missing/unaccounted funds that could total up to roughly $40mm.

    The Ionomy team is practically running everything from the shadows it seems, WGR ico funds are likely not being used at its sole benefit, and they have no betting experience left on the team...nor much funds left.

    Good news is that it has opened up whole new possibilities on an industry that will inevitably see the return of power rightfully back to the bettors/users...through consensus. I hope to be a part of the team that makes it happen and will do my best to see that things are done the right way for the users.

    Definitely don't sleep on this space though, the next few years are going to be very interesting
    Definitely disappointing.

    PS. At least the last few pages of the bitcointalk thread have been an interesting read. That posted screenshot is hilarious and mindblowing.

  22. #337
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by bookie View Post
    @lotuspod...Wagerr seemed very unfocused in its mission so I didn't really track it. But was it at the point that people were buying those tokens to bet?

    Also @lotuspod, would be curious to hear: What are your lessons learned from associating with this enterprise?

    Oh definitely, but have to remember that many people were stocked up pretty well at first and it would take time for coins to get lost on bets or scattered out among a large enough group of people.

    Learned so many lessons, and better yet - became a part of a great team and still in close contact with them...well the non-ION guys anyway. Definitely not the end of the road, there is a ton of legit potential and benefits to users as a whole. The industry just needs a bit more time to mature perhaps, akin to the internet of the late 90's and early 2000's. But we're getting damn close now and the path forward has gotten cleared out pretty well by all of the previous failures.

    And now we have a much clearer idea of the crypto situation with regards to regulation, tech, etc. And still as focused as ever on fixing users' problems in this half-broken gambling industry that we have now. For now...I'm saving my btc, grinding up even more at the tables, and will go all-in on the most promising upcoming solution. Looking at one or two in particular, but still way too early to tell.

    The best general advice I can give for now is to keep an eye on the crypto-gambling industry and make your voices heard when necessary. Being organized is mutually beneficial for all involved, and certainly (greatly) raises your chances of getting heard and actually implemented. Especially important early on while things are still quite fluid/flexible development-wise.

    If any of you would like, I could probably get one or two of the non-ION guys that left also to speak for themselves and give their own point of view. It would take ages for me to cover everything, and I'd feel a bit uncomfortable putting words in their mouths.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtymer56 View Post
    Definitely disappointing.

    PS. At least the last few pages of the bitcointalk thread have been an interesting read. That posted screenshot is hilarious and mindblowing.
    Yeah, they were almost completely clueless about betting and we were basically doing volunteer/charity work for the most part(while the ION guys were making big $). And then having to deal with their messed up past, it really should have been a red flag for us at the start but the current status quo with most/all existing networks isn't exactly the epitome of efficiency either(yay for alliteration!).


    Closing the thread seems like a loss of valuable lessons, but maybe a rename? Something like P2P/Decentralized/Trustless betting discussion. Or whatever the mod(s)/users feel like. But imho we need some kind of thread to easily keep track of all of these new projects and adequately inform people, but with strict rules regarding overly shilling(and trolling on the other end of the spectrum) and other lame/shady BS.
    Last edited by lotuspod; 06-26-19 at 01:54 AM.

  23. #338
    lotuspod
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesfan371 View Post
    Crypto ICOs: offer amazing promises

    1-2 years later: large majority of money paid out in extremely high development salaries / kept by “ICO founders”

    Project fizzles out, money left unaccounted for, nothing actually happens

    Rinse and repeat, make millions.

    That is what 95% of these crypto funds do. Majority are scams, no end product created.

    @optional this is a serious post, not a troll. Alt coin ICOs and crypto projects that raise capital are NOTORIOUS for this scheme. Google and you will see that over 50% of such crypto projects “run out of money” after raising millions.
    It really isn't much different than traditional VC investing, except that the crypto community believes that everyone should be allowed to participate if they want...and not have to be blocked by traditional 'gatekeepers' who have become essentially parasites on retail investors and they greatly stifle innovation. Sure they may lose 10,20, even 50 times in a row, but that eventual gem that does 100x or more - well that makes it all worth it and then some. From a poker perspective, look at it like big mtts rather than a big cash game.

    There are plenty of other similarities to poker too...with the ideology that people are free to do what they want with their money, and also that regulatory ring-fencing has proven to be a disaster for nearly all involved - except for a few privileged individuals. And as usual, the user at the bottom gets hit the worst since the crap tends to roll downhill.

    P.S. PLO8 is the new great game :P
    Last edited by lotuspod; 06-26-19 at 01:55 AM.

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