Wagerr - blockchain based P2P betting platform

[lotuspod]

I wouldn't trust any of my big money sitting there with that team. They all look shady.

I guess you didn't even get to the part where it's explains the trustless system. Nobody holds your money/keys but you, nobody has ever has access to it but you.

I think I have just come to the realization that the compromize required to satisfy investors and users of Wagerr is too much. (and probably the same for Peerplays)

6%/2% calculates out well for investor projections but as a bettor yourself you must know they sound very high. And with investors controlling the voting it's going to be tough to get them down I would think.

Also, the need to base it around your own coins to make these work is the major achilles heel I think.

Serious bettors are not wanting to have to gamble on multiple levels of exchange rates to use these.

Just being bitcoin based is a severe enough limitation. Adding an extra coin in the chain is a very tough sell to bettors.

Although I am sure opportunities will exist at first to get in early and see the base value of your WGR rise with the initial growth in betting use.

While that could possibly be valid for some, it's pretty doubtful over enough time. You're implying holders and bettors are two distinct group - when in fact there is massive overlap. It's pretty safe to say these days that gamblers are one of the largest groups that benefits from the advantages that crypto brings. We've already had about roughly 1% of the entire wgr supply bet and we've hardly been going only a week now.

There is far more support among the community for lower fees than you're assuming, I can tell you this first-hand. Speak to some of them yourself if you don't believe me. Even strictly non-bettors could be swayed by the simple fact that lower fees could bring in an amount of extra volume that more than outweighs the lesser overall fee.

Also as bigtymer said earlier, with crypto there is always the possibility of a fork. Holders know this too, and as more networks start to launch it's reasonable to expect more and more downward pressure on fees.

Lower fees are less a matter of if, and more of a matter of when.


Regarding danshan, there is no sense in engaging much with a troll posing as a big bettor. He's already blew up on the two other guys posting above, optional and danwinkler. I also found this very recent quote in his own words quite enlightening - "I truly want to learn to be profitable in this game and so far I have had only success in bouncing round balls and nothing else. I hope that continues this year. best of luck and I am glad to contribute but I wont argue line value but I will argue anything else if you want!"

Maybe I could teach you to win at poker at least? Once you start getting booted off of networks (or having to pay a higher commission) simply for winning, then maybe you'll start to understand some of the benefits that wgr is bringing to the table.

[danshan11]

ducking and dodging still, I asked you two simple questions
1 breakdown a bet so we can see the fees in real human numbers not node numbers
2 tell me why your book is good for the average bettor

trolling would be talking about your poker skills, I could care less I hope you are the best poker player ever!


what is the problem with answering these questions? dont blow smoke and start talking just type
1 the answer
2 the answer
and trust me, I am sure me and others would think a lot higher of you or know the truth one or the other.

I hate when someone tells me something is for me but wont even tell me why its better and what it costs, that to me is smoke and mirrors.

[lotuspod]

ducking and dodging still, I asked you two simple questions
1 breakdown a bet so we can see the fees in real human numbers not node numbers
2 tell me why your book is good for the average bettor

trolling would be talking about your poker skills, I could care less I hope you are the best poker player ever!


what is the problem with answering these questions? dont blow smoke and start talking just type
1 the answer
2 the answer
and trust me, I am sure me and others would think a lot higher of you or know the truth one or the other.

I hate when someone tells me something is for me but wont even tell me why its better and what it costs, that to me is smoke and mirrors.

1) Optional said it right after you asked I see you got open spots for juventus 3 way at 1.92 and its sitting at 1.88 at pinnacle but with your fees what I be actually getting it at? if I bet at your place at 1.92?

1.88 vs. 1.8648 (0.0152 in that single instance) but not everyone has access to Pinny, in many places we're talking -110 or even higher.

2) Winners get treated fairly and equally, users can easily earn a small return on coins by helping the network through staking/MNs/Oracles to effectively offset much or all of the fees, privacy/anonymization will likely be more and more important (especially for some locations) as we get into the future, extremely fast payouts and withdraws to btc since the user now has control of all of that - including the exchange rate, and also global availability...among other reasons.

Bettors are being given control over things that were previously impossible. Just saving on the withdraw fees and exchange rate alone is enough to offset quite a bit of the fees...no more getting stiffed on either of those. Staking is simple, all the user has to do is log into their wallet - it's all handled automatically.

Regarding the slowness and limited events of the QT wallet, it's going to be replaced shortly by a far better HTML5 wallet anyway. We're still in the earliest stages of this, there are many more years of improvements to come. Passing judgement this early isn't exactly fair, we're really only just now testing the prototype.



One other note - a Proof-of-Stake system like wgr has will inherently benefit the average bettor more than a Proof-of-Work based sportsbook ever could. They don't really care much about mining, but just logging in is certainly simple and fast enough.

[danshan11]

thanks 1.88 is not good as I am sure you know its horrible and way worse than -110 would be

winners get treated fairly and equally is there many of those?
you want me to run a miner to lower my fees?
privacy is for sure an issue sure, what does your model do to reduce that, I still have KYC AML requirements and disclosure of funds once I transfer to btc and cashout right?
fast payout and withdrawals to coins, yes but to turn that into cash takes weeks, i get wires from my book overnight some times same day.

I only pass judgement on your smoke and mirror show, trying to deflect and still hiding who are the investors and implying that sbr members are the people behind it which may or may not be true but if they were how come they dont come forward.

anyway thanks for your answers and you can keep calling me a troll if you want but I think I am very respected on this forum and people like my questions and on certain occasions want the same answers that I am looking for

[lotuspod]

thanks 1.88 is not good as I am sure you know its horrible and way worse than -110 would be

winners get treated fairly and equally is there many of those?
you want me to run a miner to lower my fees?
privacy is for sure an issue sure, what does your model do to reduce that, I still have KYC AML requirements and disclosure of funds once I transfer to btc and cashout right?
fast payout and withdrawals to coins, yes but to turn that into cash takes weeks, i get wires from my book overnight some times same day.

I only pass judgement on your smoke and mirror show, trying to deflect and still hiding who are the investors and implying that sbr members are the people behind it which may or may not be true but if they were how come they dont come forward.

anyway thanks for your answers and you can keep calling me a troll if you want but I think I am very respected on this forum and people like my questions and on certain occasions want the same answers that I am looking for

We were talking about 1.92 odds as a base though, the odds were over 2.0 on the other side. A -110 book would be less than both Pinny and WGR in that instance. By your logic, somehow Pinny got worse than the -110 books. You're just lashing out without even stopping to think it through. I don't have much interest or patience in dealing with that amount of bias, and it certainly isn't representative of the average bettor as you're trying to claim.

I didn't imply anything about those holding wgr coins, I said it's decentralized - anyone could participate. There are obviously at least a few around here who do, either current or former members.

Not sure what you mean by I'm hiding something, the whole blockchain is pretty transparent itself. If you want to speak to the users, you can go to them. Why haven't you done that yet?

[Mediterranean]

Hi @lotuspod

These are the only sport events for today you've got in your offer ?

2018-09-28 06:00:00 UTC

GOLF1

Ryder Cup

To Win

EUR

USA

2.44 ↓

13.22 ↑

1.94 ↑

70

35,034.62

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 20:00:00 UTC

SOC24

LaLiga

To Win

Sevilla

Real Madrid

4.15

4.32

1.89

25

11,782.15

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 19:00:00 UTC

SOC23

Cup

To Win

Tottenham

Watford

1.55

4.76

6.91

16

4,800.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:45:00 UTC

SOC22

Cup

To Win

Liverpool

Chelsea

1.91

4.22

4.14

27

10,322.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:45:00 UTC

SOC21

Cup

To Win

Arsenal

Brentford

1.39

6.28

8.15

26

18,542.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:00:00 UTC

SOC20

LaLiga

To Win

Leganes

Barcelona

13.36

6.81

1.28

34

26,203.00

OPEN

See Deta

[danshan11]

We were talking about 1.92 odds as a base though, the odds were over 2.0 on the other side. A -110 book would be less than both Pinny and WGR in that instance. By your logic, somehow Pinny got worse than the -110 books. You're just lashing out without even stopping to think it through. I don't have much interest or patience in dealing with that amount of bias, and it certainly isn't representative of the average bettor as you're trying to claim.

I didn't imply anything about those holding wgr coins, I said it's decentralized - anyone could participate. There are obviously at least a few around here who do, either current or former members.

Not sure what you mean by I'm hiding something, the whole blockchain is pretty transparent itself. If you want to speak to the users, you can go to them. Why haven't you done that yet?

Honestly I dont intend on using your system, it does not have good pricing, good luck I hope the huge market of gamblers you convert to miners works out well, best of luck!

[lotuspod]

Hi @lotuspod

These are the only sport events for today you've got in your offer ?

2018-09-28 06:00:00 UTC

GOLF1

Ryder Cup

To Win

EUR

USA

2.44 ↓

13.22 ↑

1.94 ↑

70

35,034.62

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 20:00:00 UTC

SOC24

LaLiga

To Win

Sevilla

Real Madrid

4.15

4.32

1.89

25

11,782.15

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 19:00:00 UTC

SOC23

Cup

To Win

Tottenham

Watford

1.55

4.76

6.91

16

4,800.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:45:00 UTC

SOC22

Cup

To Win

Liverpool

Chelsea

1.91

4.22

4.14

27

10,322.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:45:00 UTC

SOC21

Cup

To Win

Arsenal

Brentford

1.39

6.28

8.15

26

18,542.00

OPEN

See Detail

2018-09-26 18:00:00 UTC

SOC20

LaLiga

To Win

Leganes

Barcelona

13.36

6.81

1.28

34

26,203.00

OPEN

See Deta

Yes, until the new wallet arrives the schedule will be fairly limited - mainly just the largest events for now.

[snufflyjoe]

I invested in the ICO because the idea was very good and if they could execute the idea it would be succesfull.

I started getting cold feet when it didn't see many developments or communication.

They announced some good hires, started communicating well with investors and now they have a functional wallet (allbeit a prototype at this stage)

Its looking more and more like these guys will execute, after some improvements to the wallet a fiat gateway and a smart marketing campaign these guys could capture a small percentage of the gambling market.

[danshan11]

I invested in the ICO because the idea was very good and if they could execute the idea it would be succesfull.

I started getting cold feet when it didn't see many developments or communication.

They announced some good hires, started communicating well with investors and now they have a functional wallet (allbeit a prototype at this stage)

Its looking more and more like these guys will execute, after some improvements to the wallet a fiat gateway and a smart marketing campaign these guys could capture a small percentage of the gambling market.

one question, how do they capture any of the market? I know I am just a jerk but I just dont see it, there is no way in the world I would use it at those rates and that does not even include coin deflation and or cashout prices from the likes of coinbase. I am not sure who or why anyone would use this other than some techies playing around with it.

[bigtymer56]

one question, how do they capture any of the market? I know I am just a jerk but I just dont see it, there is no way in the world I would use it at those rates and that does not even include coin deflation and or cashout prices from the likes of coinbase. I am not sure who or why anyone would use this other than some techies playing around with it.

lol, stop thinking about the fees for a minute, and think about why decentralized anonymous betting would be appealing to people.

I mean just look through the Sportsbooks & The Industry section here. Sure alot of the people would love to avoid some of the headaches.

[danshan11]

its not the fees, well it kinda is the fees, nah really its the BS, this thing is a alt coin dude not a viable betting solution, nothing about it says that and I dont see it going that direction.

[lotuspod]

its not the fees, well it kinda is the fees, nah really its the BS, this thing is a alt coin dude not a viable betting solution, nothing about it says that and I dont see it going that direction.

LOL! Very enlightening answer, you can't bet on sports because it's an altcoin? Genius!

Why don't you just be honest about the obvious personal bias you have instead, and explain that? No more beating around the bush about slightly different fees or 'average bettors' and such. Speak for yourself and yourself only.

[Mediterranean]

Yes, until the new wallet arrives the schedule will be fairly limited - mainly just the largest events for now.

Thanks, will check later then when HTML5 will be deployed.
And not sure if its been mentioned already but is there any step when KYC is required ? Or is it anonymous like some BTC ones ?

[lotuspod]

Thanks, will check later then when HTML5 will be deployed.
And not sure if its been mentioned already but is there any step when KYC is required ? Or is it anonymous like some BTC ones ?

Anonymous, the chain treats everyone equally...just WGR addresses.

[danshan11]

LOL! Very enlightening answer, you can't bet on sports because it's an altcoin? Genius!

Why don't you just be honest about the obvious personal bias you have instead, and explain that? No more beating around the bush about slightly different fees or 'average bettors' and such. Speak for yourself and yourself only.

OK the interface sucks
I think its a scam not in pure scam sense but in we will try but we will make a shit ton of money for our efforts even though they wont produce crap
the odds suck
the lack of sports suck
the switching from cash to btc to wagerr to btc to cash sucks
the having to download the whole network on your smart watch sucks
I do not see anyway this will ever be competitive with fairlays odds, and 10000000000 other books ease of function
your entire premise of only one payment method the wagerr coin makes it obsolete already, I mean all smart books accept as many payment options as they can
************, wires, bank transfer, debit cards, gift cards ( not so much anymore), **, dash, btc, bch, eth, ltc and more. why do they do this? BECAUSE IT IS NECESSARY
marketing, you will be very limited where you can market this product because of the legal limits and lack of KYC, your funding options are shrinking everyday and within a year it will be shut down because some cartel guy will wash his 1.4 trillion drug dollars through your wagerr coin and piss of the Russian, Chinese or US government.

no support even here on what the largest sports betting forum on the web ( I dont know that for fact but I think so) you have zero supporters. I cannot find one credible betting person that supports this project.

you used a 9.99 cent play off a name for the url and coin because you did not have the ICO money yet to buy the real wager.com

want me to keep going or stop there? Please do not hesitate to ask I will gladly give you more

[danwinkler]

lol, stop thinking about the fees for a minute, and think about why decentralized anonymous betting would be appealing to people.

I mean just look through the Sportsbooks & The Industry section here. Sure alot of the people would love to avoid some of the headaches.

Most of these headaches are really not headaches. Most bettors never win and cashout....some of these losing bettors get lucky and win and for the first time when they try to withdraw, they think the money is going to be in the account right away. But when the books tries to complete the verification process (normal with all books before the first payout) they panic and impatiently go crazy on forums instead of waiting a day or two to solve verification process.

If those idiots started betting on wagerr, there will be 100x more wagerr related headaches because wagerr r seems like a failed model/scam.

[danshan11]

the project is a complete success, they got their millions of coins turned into cash and now say they are building it well on salary and then, oh we tried and the money is spent on salaries and we are now broke!

[bigtymer56]

Most of these headaches are really not headaches. Most bettors never win and cashout....some of these losing bettors get lucky and win and for the first time when they try to withdraw, they think the money is going to be in the account right away. But when the books tries to complete the verification process (normal with all books before the first payout) they panic and impatiently go crazy on forums instead of waiting a day or two to solve verification process.

If those idiots started betting on wagerr, there will be 100x more wagerr related headaches because wagerr r seems like a failed model/scam.

I was just pointing out what I believe is a potential market for Wagerr since Danshan seems to think there isn't any.

If I can avoid having to go through a verification process to get paid, why wouldn't I? You don't see a problem with them taking everybody's money but then when its time to pay up, that's when they have to actually look into a person? Just because it's "normal" doesn't make the practice less scammy.

Anyway, im sure Wagerr will have some issues/headaches that pop up.

[lotuspod]

the project is a complete success, they got their millions of coins turned into cash and now say they are building it well on salary and then, oh we tried and the money is spent on salaries and we are now broke!

Not broke, the crypto addresses are publicly viewable - everything is quite transparent. Seems you're just grasping at straws now, loving these random baseless accusations.

[danshan11]

I am sorry I speak like a 3 year old
I am saying you are a hair smarter than the other 1,000,000,000 ICOS you cant just steal the money, you got to make it look like you did a bunch of hard work for your hard earned salaries and at the end (NOT NOW) you will say oh man it did not work out and the money will be spent on R&D and Salaries and the sad end will come! that is not an accusation that is my opinion. I also just noticed that you did not address any of my page long comments about the success of wagerrr, is it 2rrs or 5 rrrrrs? Wagerrrrrrrrrrr, hey its like tony the tiger!

[lotuspod]

I am sorry I speak like a 3 year old
I am saying you are a hair smarter than the other 1,000,000,000 ICOS you cant just steal the money, you got to make it look like you did a bunch of hard work for your hard earned salaries and at the end (NOT NOW) you will say oh man it did not work out and the money will be spent on R&D and Salaries and the sad end will come! that is not an accusation that is my opinion. I also just noticed that you did not address any of my page long comments about the success of wagerrr, is it 2rrs or 5 rrrrrs? Wagerrrrrrrrrrr, hey its like tony the tiger!

It's designed to stand on its own at some point, without any company behind it. Oracles will handle budgeting and such through consensus. As long as users are running Oracles, it can operate indefinitely.

Over 2 million wgr has been bet in less than two weeks, not really any headaches and everyone got paid within minutes of event completion.

[danshan11]

150 grand a week at 6% now that is a nice haul, I would never shut that baby down!

[snufflyjoe]

Not broke, the crypto addresses are publicly viewable - everything is quite transparent. Seems you're just grasping at straws now, loving these random baseless accusations.

I think you've been answering his questions in good faith but he's very clearly not here to ask questions in good faith.

If he was genuinely interested he would of bothered to read the whitepaper and taken the time to understand it. If he doesnt grasp it then we should welcome genuine questions.

A normal person wouldnt stick around a thread about a product they aren't interested in for over a month and keep making baseless accusations derived from his lack of understanding.

There is either something wrong with him mentally or he has dishonest intentions

[danshan11]

I agree, my interest is definitely bias, I think its a scam and I think its a scam to take advantage of people who dont know better like most scams and that kinda irks me, I am not a super hero by any stretch but I dont like to see people get taken because they are easily confused by all this crap. I honestly dont have enough knowledge to read a white paper and even have a clue, I dont even know what a node is BUT I do know what gamblers want and need. The backend stuff they will offer or are implying they offer pinnacle and betfair give that away for free. The betting is completely horrible with horrible odds and a garbage UI, how well do you think BOL or BM or Pinny would do if you had to download the whole internet to bet 10 bucks on the Yankees? no deposit or withdraw methods except one, that sucks badly! I have over talked about this subject just like I do on 100 others its a forum not church. I dont like the product and personally including you no one has stepped up to say how it benefits the average bettor or any bettor for that matter. is betting not the most important part of it? if its the data they are 2 days late and 3 dollars short, PINNY and BETFAir API have been dreaming for years how to not give data away but still make their bettors happy, has not worked.

[lotuspod]

Let me see if I can dissect this jumble of words above...


"I honestly dont have enough knowledge to read a white paper and even have a clue, I dont even know what a node is"

I should probably just stop here, but onwards!


"BUT I do know what gamblers want and need."

Covered earlier, you don't speak for everyone...just speak for yourself. We're talking about a worldwide userbase, so the whole 'average bettor' phrase can be very misleading anyway.


"The betting is completely horrible with horrible odds and a garbage UI, how well do you think BOL or BM or Pinny would do if you had to download the whole internet to bet 10 bucks on the Yankees?"

We've covered odds already, you're really beating a dead horse here with this one. Regarding having to download the whole blockchain, that's only for the QT wallet - which is soon to be replaced and we already have the Android wallet which doesn't require downloading the chain. The main reasons for the QT wallet was to let our existing users have a bit of fun and (most importantly) to test 3 core functions, which have never been done before.

1.) Placing a Bet on the Blockchain. 2.) Processing a Bet on the Blockchain. 3.) Paying out a Bet on the Blockchain.

What has already been done are websites like Nitrogen (and plenty more Ethereum-based sportsbooks in development) which essentially take deposits of coins and/or pay out from a centralized source. But when you boil it all down, those kinds of solutions are really not much different than depositing/withdrawing cash at any of the other established books.


"no deposit or withdraw methods except one, that sucks badly!"

There are multiple exchanges and more are being added, this week for example two new exchanges were announced - one Chinese and the other Korean. It's fast and simple to exchange for btc or other coins, and the user controls the entire process. This includes the exchange rate it is posted at too. Certainly more preferable than paying whatever rate each specific book dictates.


"I dont like the product and personally including you no one has stepped up to say how it benefits the average bettor or any bettor for that matter. is betting not the most important part of it?"

Numerous reasons have already been listed, but it's already been stated that the whole average bettor angle is misleading. Simply put, it's about trying to guarantee some reasonable (and necessary) basic rights for online bettors worldwide through code and consensus. Much in the same spirit of what btc has started, but a more specialized application tailored for bettors.

[Optional]

think about why decentralized anonymous betting would be appealing to people.

Very appealing.

Imagine how much more appealing it would be if we could each bet in whatever local currency we choose and not have to deal with multiple levels of conversion rates to deposit/withdraw?

Just letting me bet against other users with bitcoin would be a lot more appealing too.

If Wagerr somehow locks in with a third party like shapeshifter or similar to handle the different currencies, that might make it look smoother to plain jane betting users.

[lotuspod]

Very appealing.

Imagine how much more appealing it would be if we could each bet in whatever local currency we choose and not have to deal with multiple levels of conversion rates to deposit/withdraw?

Just letting me bet against other users with bitcoin would be a lot more appealing too.

If Wagerr somehow locks in with a third party like shapeshifter or similar to handle the different currencies, that might make it look smoother to plain jane betting users.

As the technology matures, you're right that this will be more and more of a priority - ease of use. They're just now developing and testing the basic core functions, though there's plenty left in the tank to make sure there are some solid solutions to those issues along with many others.

It's an open network, there are all sorts of ways to build on top of it...we've really only seen the tip of the iceberg with even btc so far.

Getting on Shapeshift and/or others has more to do with getting on certain crypto exchanges. And for these kinds of things, we will only hear anything credible about it after the deal is already done. I can say that the ball is in the exchanges' court though, and they will give the first word on anything related to listings.

[danshan11]

what advantage would a typical pinnacle customer get, why would they switch?

anonymous yes your site might be at least until a big government steps in but if I need to go to an exchange to fund my account and its all on the blockchain dont the exchanges require KYC AML and then when you send funds to wagerr, its obviously on the blockchain.

safe,are you safe from someone closing your account or freezing your funds with wagerr, well with wagerr maybe but not with the exchanges they freeze funds and disappear with money all the time heard of mt gox

I dont see any other reason, can you please tell me what feature i missed for a typical pinnacle or bookmaker customer that would make it worth moving?

dude if you call me dumb one more time, I might decide to actually look closer and really call out your scam. I am burning out on you calling me stupid. Anyone can clearly see you are ducking and dodging these very basic questions, like I said BEFORE no one I mean no one has come and said yeah this is a real good idea, because it is not, you are basically breaking a sportsbook into 2 pieces the funding and betting and calling it anonymous, no where is it decentralized except for the sportbook and who cares who you bet on, all any central gov cares about is the money and the money is centralized, controlled and not anonymous at all, another shady little secret you keep on the DL
"free of all regulatory bodies" directly from your site yes not a single soul in the world gives a crap who you bet on, they only care about the money, do you not get that or just a little tiny secret?

[danshan11]

Very appealing.

Imagine how much more appealing it would be if we could each bet in whatever local currency we choose and not have to deal with multiple levels of conversion rates to deposit/withdraw?

Just letting me bet against other users with bitcoin would be a lot more appealing too.

If Wagerr somehow locks in with a third party like shapeshifter or similar to handle the different currencies, that might make it look smoother to plain jane betting users.

this dont work, look at fairlay, they are dead, no action and nobody uses it and it has very low fees, its anonymous and it just dont work, crypto based sportsbetting exchanges just have not worked. I personally love fairlay and I have no clue how anyone from the US uses anything else. the red green on against crap is annoying at first but once you are use to it, you save a ton of money on the lines alone. but its dead, I api'd volume and matches and it was like .3 btc for a typical day of baseball for the whole network all wagers matched, that is funny

[lotuspod]

Wagerr has surpassed 5 million WGR in bets(on a limited schedule), approximately $1 million at current token prices. The network has grown also, now close to 2400 nodes spread out worldwide. Exceeding all expectations for being so early in the process, this will be interesting to look back on.

https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/betevents

[danshan11]

what drives the token price, what is the value of a token derived from?

[kingdom]

Let me see if I can dissect this jumble of words above...


"I honestly dont have enough knowledge to read a white paper and even have a clue, I dont even know what a node is"

I should probably just stop here, but onwards!


"BUT I do know what gamblers want and need."

Covered earlier, you don't speak for everyone...just speak for yourself. We're talking about a worldwide userbase, so the whole 'average bettor' phrase can be very misleading anyway.


"The betting is completely horrible with horrible odds and a garbage UI, how well do you think BOL or BM or Pinny would do if you had to download the whole internet to bet 10 bucks on the Yankees?"

We've covered odds already, you're really beating a dead horse here with this one. Regarding having to download the whole blockchain, that's only for the QT wallet - which is soon to be replaced and we already have the Android wallet which doesn't require downloading the chain. The main reasons for the QT wallet was to let our existing users have a bit of fun and (most importantly) to test 3 core functions, which have never been done before.

1.) Placing a Bet on the Blockchain. 2.) Processing a Bet on the Blockchain. 3.) Paying out a Bet on the Blockchain.

What has already been done are websites like Nitrogen (and plenty more Ethereum-based sportsbooks in development) which essentially take deposits of coins and/or pay out from a centralized source. But when you boil it all down, those kinds of solutions are really not much different than depositing/withdrawing cash at any of the other established books.


"no deposit or withdraw methods except one, that sucks badly!"

There are multiple exchanges and more are being added, this week for example two new exchanges were announced - one Chinese and the other Korean. It's fast and simple to exchange for btc or other coins, and the user controls the entire process. This includes the exchange rate it is posted at too. Certainly more preferable than paying whatever rate each specific book dictates.


"I dont like the product and personally including you no one has stepped up to say how it benefits the average bettor or any bettor for that matter. is betting not the most important part of it?"

Numerous reasons have already been listed, but it's already been stated that the whole average bettor angle is misleading. Simply put, it's about trying to guarantee some reasonable (and necessary) basic rights for online bettors worldwide through code and consensus. Much in the same spirit of what btc has started, but a more specialized application tailored for bettors.

your patience and professionalism are both admirable. i have read this thread like a book and you have answered all questions posed despite the attacking manner. the concept is interesting and seems to have potential. even being able to raise the 10 million is impressive showing others believe in it's potential as well. i am definitely rooting for you all and have bookmarked some sites to watch progress. please keep us updated here as well.

[bigtymer56]

what drives the token price, what is the value of a token derived from?

What people are willing to pay for it.

[danshan11]

oh, I thought the market of coins is driven by some force behind the coin, maybe I am confused, I truly did not know things are worth what people are willing to pay for it, thanks for the superb insight. My thought of the day, will be something is worth what somebody will pay for it.