[SABAlove]

Edit by SBR: View official SBR response to this issue. The poster's entire, unedited complaint is posted below.

Update 11/7: 5Dimes has donated $7,200 — twice the amount of the circumvented limit — to the Make A Wish Foundation, through the same charity fundraiser that SBR Forum posters have raised over $10,000 for in 2015 alone.

Proof of donations:






_____________________



Hello, I am a new poster to this forum, apologies in advance for any poor etiquette.

I notice that SBR has an A+ rating for 5Dimes, and I just wanted to share my experience with them. I opened an account on the recommendation of a buddy while visiting him in Vegas. Gave all my personal info etc. Funded it to the tune of $4800 via BTC. After returning home a week or two later, decided to place my first and only bet, $4500. Bet accepted, and I won. Hooray!

Two weeks later, went to place another bet, and was met with "wagering account suspended". Apparently needed to speak with Tony. Once I finally got him on chat, he started to berate me for being a cheat and a liar??!? Apparently, my friend, whose iPad I had used to visit 5Dimes site while in Vegas, had had his limits lowered after winning a bunch. Tony took the position that we were actually the same person??!?, so his limits *should have* applied to me also! Kept saying I could only have one account. I kept saying I DO ONLY HAVE ONE ACCOUNT. He didn't care, and refused to pay out the full win. "Honored" $900, kept $3600. I offered multiple ways of confirming that this was, in fact, my account - I had given him full, accurate info at sign-up, could verify with photo ID, anything. But I guess it's hard to convince a man of the truth if his livelihood depends on the opposite.

Despite my efforts to remain calm and try to find a solution, Tony became increasingly belligerent, eventually locking my account, giving me the run-around to even get my deposit back, and locking my buddy's account (who he now admitted existed! I guess consistency doesn't matter when there's money at stake). I have checked the terms of service, what Tony did was IMHO clearly wrong. My account, my action, my limits given to me by 5Dimes. Tony just "decided" to keep 80% of my win. Had I lost, I'm 100% certain he would have kept all of it.

I understand that 5Dimes has had issues like this in the past, but thought they had straightened up a bit, based on the ratings here etc. Guess not.

So I guess this is a warning - if you're considering becoming a 5Dimes customer, be 100% sure that whatever device/computer/IP address you're using or are ever going to use to set up/place wagers/check balances etc. has never ever been used by anyone else with a 5Dimes account, or you are at significant risk of having your winnings retroactively confiscated at the "discretion" of management.

For the SBR mods - happy to provide more details if it helps for the next on-site visit/review or whatever.

Thanks everyone for your patience if you've read this far! Sorry again for any noob issues.

[recon1]

I know we always have two sides to every story and if what you say is true, when i go back home in a couple weeks and use one of the three others i turned onto 5dimes device to place an investment, somehow this could be misconstrued as fraud on my part.

Well, hopefully you file a complaint here with SBR and the truth comes out. If it is as you say, Good-luck in your quest.

[relaaxx]

new posters are always hiding facts that make them look bad. or that show they are trying to steal from a sportsbook as accused. fill out a complaint. it does at least seem you are telling the truth and have become a victim of circumstances. seems also you should have been given the chance to provide proof of who you are.

[SBR Forum]

Hi SABAlove,

Thanks for sharing with the board.

Question -- Were you wagering on the same markets your friendly had previously been limited on? This might explain the wagering being suspended/the association of your friend's account, especially since as you disclosed a common device was shared. An analyst will be in touch with you for the complaint you filed to go over the rest.

[OldschoolGambler]

Betting the same type of market "might" lend proof to Dimes point, but if he can prove who he says he is and the new IP address is vastly different then I would say he should be paid and then kicked out if they don't want his action.

[Optional]

Don't know the rights and wrongs of this case, but it's pretty much standard procedure at all books to ban and cancel bets for any account linked to another one that is already limited.

If you both used the same device I've seen much tougher responses than just knocking back your bet size to the first account's limit. Often.

[unusialsusp5]

you made an honest mistake but my tony sources say your initial deposit which appears to be very bold. (you may be rich but a 4800.00 first time deposit drew a red flag). then the 4500.00 bet drew another red flag. you didn't exactly fly under the radar here. yes, if you lost it, of course they would have kept it. wouldn't you if you were them. however, you won and the blame is with your friend who should have told you he had reduced limits. using his device drew another red flag and is against tony's rules. of course he was suspicious and did what he had to do. hopefully you will get your 5700.00 and spread some deposits around to different books to avoid situations like this.

[SABAlove]

Just to clarify, I placed exactly 1 bet on a completely different device & IP than my friend regularly uses. We live in different states. We do both bet NFL however. I had no idea that using the wrong device to set up an account would be used to justify taking winnings. Since the books have all this device/IP info beforehand, they certainly could have 1. Refused to establish the account, 2. Set limits commensurate with my buddy's account, or 3. Asked to validate either/both accounts before proceeding, or 4. all of the above. Given any kind of notification/warning, I would have corrected the issue.

But by setting up the account/limits and booking my action, isn't 5Dimes getting a free roll with my deposit ? How many times have they refunded losses that were mistakenly over the limits ? Probably rarely

I totally understand the books' policy and need to have control over accounts and limits. They certainly have all the information they need to do so. Tony was right to question things given the facts he had. I was much more concerned that there was literally no way for me to show him what the truth was. I mean, they have a process to verify accounts with IDs for CC withdrawals I believe. That's not good enough ?

Given the increasingly aggressive responses when all I said was "I have one account.", it just seemed like there was no path to reason here. It just doesn't seem like Tony/5Dimes LIKES customers, period.

[unusialsusp5]

he "likes" customers who abide by the rules and don't chronically withdraw (his #1 pet peeve). i believe you have a legitimate gripe here but i'd take the 900.00 and run as tony seldom, if ever, caves. he can't. otherwise he'd be spending all his time judging disputes of all sorts. less reputable people would try everything and anything to put one over on him if he was considered "soft".

[relaaxx]

I totally understand the books' policy and need to have control over accounts and limits. They certainly have all the information they need to do so. Tony was right to question things given the facts he had. I was much more concerned that there was literally no way for me to show him what the truth was. I mean, they have a process to verify accounts with IDs for CC withdrawals I believe. That's not good enough ?



this seems to make sense - why not let him prove who he says he is. he does seem willing to jump thru any hoop.

[SBR Forum]

Just to clarify, I placed exactly 1 bet on a completely different device & IP than my friend regularly uses. We live in different states. We do both bet NFL however. I had no idea that using the wrong device to set up an account would be used to justify taking winnings. Since the books have all this device/IP info beforehand, they certainly could have 1. Refused to establish the account, 2. Set limits commensurate with my buddy's account, or 3. Asked to validate either/both accounts before proceeding, or 4. all of the above. Given any kind of notification/warning, I would have corrected the issue.

But by setting up the account/limits and booking my action, isn't 5Dimes getting a free roll with my deposit ? How many times have they refunded losses that were mistakenly over the limits ? Probably rarely

I totally understand the books' policy and need to have control over accounts and limits. They certainly have all the information they need to do so. Tony was right to question things given the facts he had. I was much more concerned that there was literally no way for me to show him what the truth was. I mean, they have a process to verify accounts with IDs for CC withdrawals I believe. That's not good enough ?

Given the increasingly aggressive responses when all I said was "I have one account.", it just seemed like there was no path to reason here. It just doesn't seem like Tony/5Dimes LIKES customers, period.

You were paid based on the limits your friend had in place. We are discussing the case with management, but so far the timeline has account one being limited, then cashing out his BTC and leaving, then your account being created and depositing through BTC and using the same device your friend used and wagering the same market your friend had wagered - do you disagree with this timeline? That's what we know so far.

[unusialsusp5]

I totally understand the books' policy and need to have control over accounts and limits. They certainly have all the information they need to do so. Tony was right to question things given the facts he had. I was much more concerned that there was literally no way for me to show him what the truth was. I mean, they have a process to verify accounts with IDs for CC withdrawals I believe. That's not good enough ?



this seems to make sense - why not let him prove who he says he is. he does seem willing to jump thru any hoop.

because if he does it for him he'd have to do it for dozens of others. and he simply does not want to spend his time doing it as it would consume his whole day, every day.

[relaaxx]

because if he does it for him he'd have to do it for dozens of others. and he simply does not want to spend his time doing it as it would consume his whole day, every day.

Tony does not have to do everything himself. SBR is in the middle of this. it will get straighten out one way or the other. time is not the main issue - doing what is right is and i think Tony would agree. he does have the last word and that's fine. let's see what happens. is the op a thief or a victim. we will find out.

[TheSchafe]

Hmm...

[T4TRUTH]

Tony does not have to do everything himself. SBR is in the middle of this. it will get straighten out one way or the other. time is not the main issue - doing what is right is and i think Tony would agree. he does have the last word and that's fine. let's see what happens. is the op a thief or a victim. we will find out.

IRREGARDLESS, the outfit took the wager so pay, if you didn't like the wager or the wager amount raise the issue at the time the bet goes in. Not after the fact cause he won.
How is someone a cheat even if he duped 5 dimes and made the wager, it is upon them to catch it the time it is made and deny the wager or allow it.
This after the fact is ridiculous.
you hung the line, you accepted the wager pay him, no matter who he is, you did not catch it ahead of time , so your bad. fire the guy who is supposed to watch over the wagers coming in, not the punter. the punter made his wager and it was accepted. END OF STORY.
Pay the guy kick him out or ban him for life, but got to take the bad with the good, pay the guy.

[ki dice]

This is bullshit if the player is a totally different person than the other he gets paid in full then shown the door because his friend probably giving him the picks.end of story right thing to do if wager had lost then tony keeps.the money penetrate all you players that say other wise you put the 4600 up win a game and then don't get paid penetrate you all who think it's right on 5 dimes behalf

[relaaxx]

sportsbooks just don't pay people even when they think they went around the rules , bent the rules, or just broke all the rules. and i would not want them to. the rules are there for a reason. i may not agree with all of them but i need them too. i need the sportsbook to stay solvent. not just let anyone win a ton a money buy breaking the rules. i want to get paid. so the business of running the sportsbook needs rules.

[The Kraken]

You were paid based on the limits your friend had in place. We are discussing the case with management, but so far the timeline has account one being limited, then cashing out his BTC and leaving, then your account being created and depositing through BTC and using the same device your friend used and wagering the same market your friend had wagered - do you disagree with this timeline? That's what we know so far.

Thread is over.

How many times have we seen this?

Here's my problem with this kind of shit, I've won a lot at 5dimes, much more than $4,500, and I got paid no questions asked.

Then this guy comes in, like many others, with some vague story, omits important facts and details, and tries to leverage his way into a bigger payout. Not gonna work.

It's the same fukking thing over and over with 5dimes, and every time it always ends the same, with Tony giving you the finger.

After reading this post by Lou, assuming it's correct and I assume it most likely is, but who could ignore the blatantly obvious and contest that he should be paid? By circumstances alone, I think he's lucky this happened at 5dimes and not a handful of other books.

Just my opinion but this story comes across like so many others that turned out to be fraud.

[T4TRUTH]

sportsbooks just don't pay people even when they think they went around the rules , bent the rules, or just broke all the rules. and i would not want them to. the rules are there for a reason. i may not agree with all of them but i need them too. i need the sportsbook to stay solvent. not just let anyone win a ton a money buy breaking the rules. i want to get paid. so the business of running the sportsbook needs rules.

ok enforce the rules I agree totally.100% but do not hang a line and then say oh I didnt want the bet, do not accept a wager the player is told to enter password and cofirm and accept the wager, this means by accepting the wager the book has to honor it, end of story. that is the most fundamental rule of book making since beginning of time..
do you know what a bet is , a bet is "debt of honour" that is what it means, hence all the credit betting around the world..
the book hung the line and accepted the wager.
books these days have all kinds of watch dogs, but they missed this one and the guy needs to get paid.. it is the fundamentals of book making, never mind principles etc etc etc

[The Kraken]

IRREGARDLESS, the outfit took the wager so pay, if you didn't like the wager or the wager amount raise the issue at the time the bet goes in. Not after the fact cause he won.
How is someone a cheat even if he duped 5 dimes and made the wager, it is upon them to catch it the time it is made and deny the wager or allow it.
This after the fact is ridiculous.
you hung the line, you accepted the wager pay him, no matter who he is, you did not catch it ahead of time , so your bad. fire the guy who is supposed to watch over the wagers coming in, not the punter. the punter made his wager and it was accepted. END OF STORY.
Pay the guy kick him out or ban him for life, but got to take the bad with the good, pay the guy.

5dimes accepted the wager in good faith, once it was determined in retrospect that there was malice intent or an actual attempt to defraud the book, the wager is cancelled. I don't see the problem and can assure you this is completely ethical. The book has no obligation, nor should they have any obligation, to honor a bet that was made simply to defraud them. This would make absolutely no business sense.

It would be similar as if you went into a department store and took a $100 tag and put it on a $1,000 TV, purchased the TV and the cashier didn't catch your slyness. Do you really believe you're entitled to that TV because they sold it to you for $100?

[relaaxx]

ok enforce the rules I agree totally.100% but do not hang a line and then say oh I didnt want the bet, do not accept a wager the player is told to enter password and cofirm and accept the wager, this means by accepting the wager the book has to honor it, end of story. that is the most fundamental rule of book making since beginning of time..
do you know what a bet is , a bet is "debt of honour" that is what it means, hence all the credit betting around the world..
the book hung the line and accepted the wager.
books these days have all kinds of watch dogs, but they missed this one and the guy needs to get paid.. it is the fundamentals of book making, never mind principles etc etc etc

how much time can they have to accept a bet. i need them to be accepted in a few seconds. are you saying that is enough time to catch every sneaking scheme to circumvent rules. would you be willing to wait for a bet to be accepted while they check you out, your history., ip address and anything else they may want to know if they are paying out every single bet made. no matter what. every single bet everyone makes.

[The Kraken]

how much time can they have to accept a bet. i need them to be accepted in a few seconds. are you saying that is enough time to catch every sneaking scheme to circumvent rules. would you be willing to wait for a bet to be accepted while they check you out, your history., ip address and anything else they may want to know if they are paying out every single bet made. no matter what. every single bet everyone makes.

5dimes is a business and it's in their best interest, as well as ours, to accept wagers in a timely fashion. By doing so, they open themselves up to individuals that are trying to take advantage of them. If they manually verified each bet, if they looked into each accepted wager, it would be such a painstakingly slow process that they would likely go out of business and us punters would have one less quality out.

You cannot ignore the fact they're a business and simply view them as a bookie.

And principles certainly matter, especially in a case like this.

[bocajuniorska]

lolz if this is indeed true as it looks so, it's so poor from 5Dimes or this Tony bs fukker to do such thing. What a scam. This is unfukkingbelievable. @thekraken stop deffending them and making an idiot of yourself, please.

To start off these bookies that limit bettors are a disgrace. The bet was accepted, it was a different person, even if they see connection throw IP or w/e with his friend its STILL a different person and they have to assume it as such. Now after he's won they decide to take action? What the absolute FukK.

Not even bet365 would do this bs, they would purelly limit the account but pay the earnings, simple as that and thats what should be done in this case.

5Dimes -> SCAM.

[T4TRUTH]

5dimes is a business and it's in their best interest, as well as ours, to accept wagers in a timely fashion. By doing so, they open themselves up to individuals that are trying to take advantage of them. If they manually verified each bet, if they looked into each accepted wager, it would be such a painstakingly slow process that they would likely go out of business and us punters would have one less quality out.

You cannot ignore the fact they're a business and simply view them as a bookie.

And principles certainly matter, especially in a case like this.

the business is being a BOOKIE... what do they sell icecream on the side.
I have no gripe with 5dimes what so ever.
The point you are missing to accept the wager and then payout on it and then take it back later is all wrong.
as a business, a business you say and price tags.
if you go to best buy and buy a home theatre system and walk out of the store with your boxes, drive home of course you have your receipt, which is your proof of purchase and contract with the store.. same as your bet slip in the case of this business being a "BOOKIE"
you get to your house and start to install and then there is no remote controls and even worse there is no base booster.
You return to the store unhappy but certain it is a simple mix up, so you go to customer service and say" here is my receipt but the package is incomplete" " there are remotes missing and no booster box" this is not what I paid for and it is incomplete.
The rep says well we feel like doing that sometimes, now go get penetrated..........
do you have a case... you bought in good faith you walked out with your receipt, as did the bettor and they gets told go penetrate yourself.
wouldnt be acceptable at best buy why 5dimes, if all such great business??
even worse best buy customer rep says hmmm show me the box, I am taking back the dvd player too just for your complaining.....
and dont let any of your friends come here either you cheap unfathered child...........

those of you who support the decision of the book do not realize it is on the book to know what they are holding from whom they are holding and what is going on every second of every day 24 hrs a day. that is the BOOKIE BUSINESS...
Such carry on would not be acceptable in any proper BUSINESS and so it should not be acceptable in this "bookie business" either.

[recon1]

Wow, i'm not sure of the specifics opie speaks of or truthfulness, but the analogies in here are great.

[SABAlove]

Sorry for the delay, was offline. I think your timeline is mostly correct. I don't know for certain if my buddy withdrew all his 5Dimes BTC after getting limited, but I wouldn't doubt it, since he tends to bet more than me, so a $1k limit would probably be more trouble than it's worth for him. I definitely used his iPad in LV to create the account. Had no idea this would be an issue. Only minor difference is that the bet (singular) I placed was from MY home computer in LA. This coincides with the physical address I gave 5Dimes when registering, what my driver's license says, and where I would have continued betting had I been allowed. It's not like I tried to hit-and-run with a withdrawal request. Would have been a happy customer, and yes, this is a very typical play for me in NFL season.

[Edit]By the way, just want to say how impressive it is that SBR gets involved and actually talks to management on stuff like this. Thank you, that's pretty cool and unexpected.

You were paid based on the limits your friend had in place. We are discussing the case with management, but so far the timeline has account one being limited, then cashing out his BTC and leaving, then your account being created and depositing through BTC and using the same device your friend used and wagering the same market your friend had wagered - do you disagree with this timeline? That's what we know so far.

[SABAlove]

First of all, this is not some attempt to "defraud" 5Dimes. The wager in question was a straight bet, with the vig, on an NFL SIDE, within the quoted limits of the book. Stop acting like I'm trying to get paid on some parlay typo. IF INDEED there was only 1 person here and my "buddy" is actually my alter-ego living a secret double life in Las Vegas, then yes, Tony would be right to limit the action, close all the accounts, whatever. BUT UNFORTUNATELY that's not the case (my wife and kids can attest to that).

I opened an account on the wrong device. My bad. Had I known, been notified, been verified, it would have been sorted out. BUT UNFORTUNATELY rather than giving me that opportunity, management at 5Dimes has apparently decided to take a quick freeroll when these types of things happen, rather than trying to sort it out.

All of which is I guess great for you, Kraken, since by keeping my $3600 there's slightly less chance that 5Dimes goes under, so you can keep getting paid. That is, unless/until you happen to be traveling and login from the business center computer to make your bets in the middle of a big winning weekend, at which point just maybe you might be the one bitching here. Or do you think Tony will be "generous" with one of his "loyal customers"?

Thread is over.

How many times have we seen this?

Here's my problem with this kind of shit, I've won a lot at 5dimes, much more than $4,500, and I got paid no questions asked.

Then this guy comes in, like many others, with some vague story, omits important facts and details, and tries to leverage his way into a bigger payout. Not gonna work.

It's the same fukking thing over and over with 5dimes, and every time it always ends the same, with Tony giving you the finger.

After reading this post by Lou, assuming it's correct and I assume it most likely is, but who could ignore the blatantly obvious and contest that he should be paid? By circumstances alone, I think he's lucky this happened at 5dimes and not a handful of other books.

Just my opinion but this story comes across like so many others that turned out to be fraud.

[Plaza23]

If 5 dimes accepts a bet, then they need to pay out if they lose. Bottom line. We all know they would have kept the money if the OP's bet had lost. Putting limits on players is bush league too. If you want to put limits on overall action - that makes sense. But dont put limits on individual players. Thats horse shit.

[relaaxx]

i think the op ends up getting his money. but i also see why they need some questions answered. to bad 5dimes did not ask any questions before making decisions. SBR will end up sorting it out.

[edawg]

My question to the OP would be why he would deposit and place a sizeable bet at a shop where his good buddy just withdrew from because of limits in the same markets? I agree every line hung should be paid but also every shop has the right to limit and refuse further action from any player.

[The Kraken]

For the purpose of discussion here, whether you bet a reasonble line within your limits is irrelevant, the entire account is in question, which makes the bet null and void. Nothing else matters if your account is fraudulent. And if it turns out that is the case, then yes, by definition you were trying to defraud them.

I wouldn't be completely surprised if Tony pays you and your buddy, the precedent is there. I've seen Tony pay guys in situations similar to this but he generally lets you know up front, you're no longer welcome at 5 dimes.

And don't be surprised if you end up blacklisted at many other places as well.

[The Kraken]

the business is being a BOOKIE... what do they sell icecream on the side.
I have no gripe with 5dimes what so ever.
The point you are missing to accept the wager and then payout on it and then take it back later is all wrong.
as a business, a business you say and price tags.
if you go to best buy and buy a home theatre system and walk out of the store with your boxes, drive home of course you have your receipt, which is your proof of purchase and contract with the store.. same as your bet slip in the case of this business being a "BOOKIE"
you get to your house and start to install and then there is no remote controls and even worse there is no base booster.
You return to the store unhappy but certain it is a simple mix up, so you go to customer service and say" here is my receipt but the package is incomplete" " there are remotes missing and no booster box" this is not what I paid for and it is incomplete.
The rep says well we feel like doing that sometimes, now go get penetrated..........
do you have a case... you bought in good faith you walked out with your receipt, as did the bettor and they gets told go penetrate yourself.
wouldnt be acceptable at best buy why 5dimes, if all such great business??
even worse best buy customer rep says hmmm show me the box, I am taking back the dvd player too just for your complaining.....
and dont let any of your friends come here either you cheap unfathered child...........

those of you who support the decision of the book do not realize it is on the book to know what they are holding from whom they are holding and what is going on every second of every day 24 hrs a day. that is the BOOKIE BUSINESS...
Such carry on would not be acceptable in any proper BUSINESS and so it should not be acceptable in this "bookie business" either.

So Now Tony owes the guy a remote AND a booster box?

"Um, yes, Tony, This is Sabalove. I implore you to send me my $4,500. And throw in a remote. And a booster box. Thanks pal."

Man, tough crowd

[jjgold]

Strange story

Every guy likes this starts posts exactly the same

5Dimes never screws anyone

[Caip34000]

That's funny to see how people protect book here... I'm sorry but if the guy did have lose 5 dimes would have keep everything and here they gave to pay the whole bet

[cloverfield]

That's funny to see how people protect book here... I'm sorry but if the guy did have lose 5 dimes would have keep everything and here they gave to pay the whole bet

Regardless what do you think of the situation that led up to this?

What a coincidence. Guy A. wagers on certain markets...and gets limited.. Withdraws via Bitcoin.

Guy B. suddenly creates an account, deposits with Bitcoin, wagers on the same markets (no longer limited due to new account), and gets caught. Oh and he just happened to wager from the same device Guy A. got limited from.

Yeah.. CALL ME CRAZY but something tells me there was shady crap going on here and I have no sympathy. How come we never hear of a case of clear "theft" from 5Dimes. Oh that's right, because it doesn't happen.

Do shady crap and don't complain when you get caught. I have no sympathy for these fools. Thank God for technology because this guy had no idea it could be tracked to the same device.