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I agree with this as well and I posted it before. Bill even if you are adamant 5dimes is correct in how they handled the monetary amount, which is lol, but don't you have a problem with the threatening way in which this customer was treated?Originally Posted by Dan bouton
This is a bad analogy! There are wager limits to prevent this from happening as well! Absolutely to bet off 4mil in a day online! Not only that they should cover that in the rules and not say they would pay pending wagers with misgraded $$! U also said if I lost the subsequent wagers I would have lost nothing cuz it was house $$! Incorrect again I would have been charged the 3990 when the regrade was made on top of what I still had in my acct 1 or 2 hindered I never had a 0 balance!!
Help me out here, this was NOT A BAD LINE, it was a 'BAD' PAYTABLE, right?
How long had this paytable entry been on the 5Dimes website?
(Bill, haven't you already said you guys save the google cached sites of books in case they add or omit a rule Post Facto?)
Even if the OP had not 100% covered himself with transcript logs confirming his story, a bad and obvious line in a single game put up that day is WORLDS apart from a static payout chart.
Hey, books run promos all the time, many not advertised heavily, and all would be considered a bad line if taken out of context.
Heritage will let you out if a bet at half time, now if that promo was not so heavily talked about on here, that would be another example of a book free rolling when a customer would avail himself of this.
I just looked at these top 4 books' parlay payouts for an eight teamer.
TheGreek: 100:1
5Dimes: 175.44:1
Heritage: 150:1
BetOnline: 165:1
Now aren't these numbers emblematic of the wide disparity different books offer on big long shots?
My last point/question:
Bill,
What SHOULD the OP have done? If you heard this complete story over a beer at a bar, and were 'blindfolded' as to which book it was, are telling us you would reply to this man in the bar with the essence of your afore posted position?
"When someone persuades me that I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?"
John Maynard Keynes
Last edited by princecharles; 11-24-12 at 11:00 PM.
This was listed on the payable as+ 700000 or something like that! It was like this since the day I opened my acct! A week or so later It was still like this so I bet it. I then researched specific payouts cuz Im new to this and relized if this was a mistake I am suppose to call the book and tell them. That is exactly what I did I asked to speak to a manager. They asked why? I said I think u may have a bad line or bad pay out. I gave the specific bet and said I had a few of them placed in my acct! The person said u have multiple pleasers give me ticket numbers. I gave exact ticket numbers and they read wager and payout back to me and said nope no problem it's correct thanks and good luck!! I then was transferred cuz the first person I spoke to wanted to be sure she was not mistaking! I was then told the exact same thing after a similar convo!!
Having checked this forum on and off for many years, it's sad to see that such a good guy as BillDozer has hit the bottom with this thread.
Lou has been brain washed for years, but at least Bill had some honesty and integrity left.
Money tends to do that to the weak
Only part I don`t agree with OP is taking a shot at hurting a book that he just took advantage for 3900.00. Why keep betting there and knowing it all started from 57 cents bad paytable!! and thats what bill ( indirectly) is trying to say by defending the book. His position doesnt let him say so plainly but if you read between the lines,you ll see it. Other than that every bet afterwards from OP was the fruit of his sweat or handicapping or luck and he does deserve to be payed.
I have no clue as to who is in the 'right' here, mainly because it is so subjective. Assuming the bettor is 100% telling the truth I can see why he would feel he's been jobbed. I can also see the books stance. They know it's their error and they will try to lose as little as possible because of that.
As I say, subjective - not withstanding the fact SBR can in no way claim to be a neutral arbiter in any of this, given the checks that hit the mat each month, but even that can be seen as subjective if you're willing to believe Bill & Justin act independently of upper management when it comes to disputes.
What isn't subjective are the threats and those threats seem to be being ignored in this case, so my question would be this:
1) Would SBR downgrade a book on the basis their staff have been proven to issue threats of violence to its players, regardless of the reason for the threats.
2) Do SBR intend to contact 5Dimes and advise them their staff are behaving wholly unbecoming of an A Rated book?
I tend to agree. There's no doubt SBR are in a tough spot here because they are nothing but the middle man.
Had Tony acted in a reasonable and mature manner and suggested binding SBR intervention it wouldn't have even made it to the forum, a deal would have been reached and everyone would have been happy.
That's why SBR should side with the player - not because the book was 100% wrong - but because everything they did during communication with the player after the incident was.
Call it staff training fees, or better still take it out of Tony's paycheck.
Seriously guys -- consider this:
I bet a $1 parlay that should pay 11:1. Instead of $11, my account is credited with $1100. I then bet the $1100 on another 11:1 parlay, win, and am correctly paid $12100. So you are really saying that the book should receive the refund of the erroneous bet ($1089), and I should be entitled to $11011? Nice try.
What should happen is that it be assumed I would bet the maximum amount possible, in this case $11 on the new parlay, thus getting credited $121 ($11x11:1).
I can't believe you people think he is entitled to money that he wagered that wasn't his to rightfully wager.
HOWEVER.......... If he had lost the large bets, would the book then make his balance negative, because he wagered and lost with money he didn't rightfully have? I do not believe for a second that the book would just zero out the account and say, oops, our mistake. This is where I have the problem. My guess is the book would 'charge off' his account, and hurt his ability open accounts elsewhere, and harass the player and try to collect.
There needs to be a middle ground here. the player is not entitled to full funds, but the book just can't wipe it away either.
My understanding is the following bets werent made on the 6 teams pleaser, if thats the case then he doesnt deserve ay penny but I think mtneer 1212 has it wrong
Is the rule on 5 Dimes also illogical, Bill?
http://www.5dimes.eu/rules.html
It explicitly states that the wagers stand.
What the fukk happened to this place, Bill? It's absolutely sickening.
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At some point Tony's employees take some blame. According to the OP he asked (2) SUPERVISORS if the wager was valid. They both said YES. I mean what more is expected of the player here? The player is basically saying "I think this is wrong can you verify if I can continue with it" at which point they say EVERYTHING IS FINE.
He continued to wager on REGULAR plays..not the pleasers. You better be absolutely certain that someone checked his wagering history before the 11k in payouts as well. All his winnings should be paid minus the initial ~$3900 grading error if 5Dimes wants to compromise.
The OP is basically shit out of luck now though. I don't see Tony coming down from this. Keep in mind all my posts in this thread are under the assumption the OP is telling the 100% truth.
Very perceptive. Was it the way he virtually tells him to fukk off in the chat logs that make you think this, or the outright threats?
lol
Just in general terms. I love Tony though.
5Dimes only owes for the original pleaser at 70-1.
reversing the application means cancelling bets of unearned funds.5Dimes reserves the right to reverse the incorrect application of funds into an account due to human or system/software error.
Funds that were not intended to be credited into a customer's account will be reverted upon discovery of the inaccuracy.
Last edited by raiders72001; 11-25-12 at 02:50 AM.
some in this thread said he was paid 10x the amount but it was 100x. It went from 70-1 to 7000-1.
Edit by SBR Lou: No, was a six-team pleaser: http://www.5dimes.eu/sb_charts/PleasersChart.htm
Last edited by SBR Lou; 11-25-12 at 07:48 AM. Reason: added reply
As a response to some posts, I am telling the 100% truth I know sbr knows and tony knows because they have all the facts! I'm not holding nothing back! As far as talking to 2supervisors I'm not sure if they were or we're not. I asked to speak with a manager, I then spoke to 2 separate people who ensured me they could handle this and it was fine! No bad line no bad pay table good luck sir and continue on with ur wagers. At the time they seemed very curtious and helpful for a novice like myself! I read if u point out a mistake in a book u r sometimes offered a free play or something! I felt here the worste case my bets would be canceled prior to even winning them and I possibly get a free play but neither happened cuz they stated everything was fine!Then all this time passes I get paid some money and I never even bet the bet again cuz it was so hard to hit the first time having to give 8 PTs. If all the $ was won on the wager in question and cs did not tell me what they did I don't argue this, but I feel I did everything I was supposed to do here!
What did you bet on to win so much afterward?
More pleasers?
Could you please elaborate on this Bill? Maybe my english comprehension isnt the best since its not my native language, but this to me reads, regardless of the regraded wager, subsequent wagers will stand. Winning or losing, doesnt matter.
I'm not commenting on any verdict in the case since I havent read through it closely enough, but these rules are from their very own terms, they have to count for something, right? I'm just trying to logically understand the rule's meaning, if its not too much to ask.
I think he said he made quite a lot of straight wagers, some up to 4k per bet. Thats the vast majority of his winnings. I actually think he said all winnings were from straight bets, or parlays (legit lines I assume), apart from that one pleaser payout of 3900 ish. I may be wrong though.
This is the stickler part.No way in hell a $.57 bettor is throwing out 4k bets without the benefit of funds that he got over and above what he should have.5 dimes fukked up no doubt and should have to eat something on this deal but to have to eat all this guys bets is rediculous considering his normal play would never have increased his balance to the status it is now.Tony should but wont eat what the guy has been paid and close his account and fix his in house mistake so something this stupid doesn't occur again.
IMO, that logic is fine only as long as it goes both ways. If an old wager is regraded makes an account be put in a negative balance, you would have to apply it there; No way the player would have made all those bets, or bets so large, had he not won so much from the wrongly graded bet, so the debt has to be decreased.
perhaps that should be the standard practice here in the future.
explain the issue, but don't say what book it was. then when bill says his 2 cents, reveal which book was the culprit.
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Look at it this way:
You go to your bank and deposit $100 and the clerk accidently enters $100,000 that doesnt get noticed.
You notice the error when you check your online bank statement later that day, and immediately go on a spending spree and spend $50k of the $100k you were accidently given.
When the mistake is noticed and reversed you, leaving you with a negative balance - do you expect the bank to just chalk it up to an error and wipe it out allowing you to keep the $50k worth of stuff you bought or do you think you would be expected to pay back what you owe them ?
Lets ask this guy:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/loca...fcb720acb.html
Yes but the money didn't get plopped into his account and then he took it and ran. First of all there is wagering and risk involved here with the bets. It's not as if they kept depositing money into his account for no reason.
How about if you are in the stock market and you get dividends... You normally get $50 but this year they deposit $5000. You're thinking wow that is a lot more than I usually get so you contact the firms manager to confirm. Two different people who call themselves managers/supervisors review the payment and say everything is fine. 6 weeks later they say HEY HEY there is a problem while in that time you put money at risk in the market...
At some point Tony/5Dimes has to take some responsibility for his business. Are his employees lying and saying they are manager when they are not? Are they not reviewing the payout and just brushing the player aside? Do they not know what their own payout table looks like? Give me a break. Tony is making it sound like it's strictly the players fault when his employees screwed up 2-3 times. The player knew something was wrong AND QUESTIONED IT. He did NOT TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN. TOTALLY different scenario as there is wagering/risk involved..not just getting money deposited to your account...plus there is no damn regulation in this industry.
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"A week after the money was put in his account, Bucci allegedly made a $12,000 cash withdrawal at a Wells Fargo branch in Feasterville, according to police. He bought a used car with the money, according to Bensalem Sgt. Andrew Aninsman."
He did not contact the bank to alert them of the error. He immediately started spending it like a sneaky bastard. TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCENARIO. He had no expectation of the money. It arrived there magically on error. He didn't place a wager (even if they payout table in the end was wrong) and expect some return on that to be in his account.
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If at any point someone at 5Dimes did their job...nobody is in this situation today. Their employees failed 5Dimes...to what extent we'll probably never know.
Last edited by cloverfield; 11-25-12 at 12:16 PM.
Bad line. It's the same as -6 +110 compared to -6 +11000
What's really interesting with this thread is that we aren't talking about a wrong line. We're talking about what we "believe" is a wrong ratio of the "payout" on a play/wager. If all of this evidence is accurate... the OP wasn't taking a chance on a wrong line Ex: the line should of been +3 but it was +14. He was making a wager based upon the return on his investment. It is kind of ludicrous to risk 58 cents or 57 cents... whatever it was. But, to a novice player... we really don't know what the return should of been?
Again, I can't say the OP is wrong here. The truth of the matter is if someone is selling you a stock at $0.31 a share. And you purchase the stock because you know the same stock is around $7.81 a share. And you call to confirm this and 2 people confirm the amount. And you place your order. They can't say Oh sorry sir... it was our error a week later that stock was actually $7.81 a share and you paid $0.31? Gambling or not... he did call to confirm. It just goes to show Tony better hire better employees. I believe 5 dimes is responsible to negotiate and pay the man. According to the story... he did call and confirm. What more did you want the OP to do? Not place the wager based upon belief or theory what he assumed it should of been? That's absurd. Teasers, parlays, are all complexed formulas. As clients/gamblers we're suppose to calculate a betting ticket? It's not our job to double check 5dimes's calculations.
AGAIN... this wasn't a LINE ERROR. HE WON HIS WAGERS.
I remember cases before that if a customer who was cut from a bonus program receives a bonus offer (by mistake) and checks the offer with the CS then the offer HAS to stand.
if the player checked twice if the odds are correct then the responsibility is on CS. Also, if there is the rule that all bets stand and that the account can be in negative then there is only one issue here and that is if the player should be paid full on his first bet or the amended amount
doesn't work, justin7 sided with thremp in the payout issue then changed his tune after he found out the book.
Tony will be thinking the guy knew he was taking a shot, and the contact to CS proves it. So by his logic the OP has stolen from him and is the enemy.
It even states in 5D rules that the customer is never given the benefit of doubt.
I want to make it clear that only the 3990 was won on the pleaser in question. The rest of the money was won on strait wagers and parlays! Yes I admit my bets SLOWLY increased as I won more and more money and weeks and weeks went by withdraw after withdraw was approved. I did at least 8 p2p withdraws in this time so many the flagged it stating I should try another payment method considering I was winning on a weekly basis! The last weekend I bet about 4k on the packers between 1st and 2nd half also multiple 3-5 team parlays for 1-400 that hit as well! This was my largest win and was done last weekend! After winning the wager in question I probly bet 1500 or less the first week! So yes my bets increased but doesn't everyone's when there consistently winning money week to week! This should not be called a "small account" as I deposited almost 1000 in the first week of opening and only stopped when I was told to stop cuz it wasn't necessary if my bets would not deplete my entire new balance! Why would I add $ to an acct overseas that has 4 k in it already in wich I am told is legitimate and fairly won $$! I don't see the logic here as I'm just going to take it out anyways and be charged to do so!!
Last edited by Dan bouton; 11-26-12 at 02:54 AM.
In the end all the subsequent bets would have been made regardless of the misgrade or not! I would have put more $ in my acct to cover those bets of there was an immediate regrade! I can't help they not only took so long to correct this but told me twice it was done correctly! However I think that should not even have to be said to honor these wagers! Not only this I've been wrongly called a thief and my life was threatened multiple times and this has yet to even be acknowledged or addressed!
SlickRick1382 gave MonkeyF0cker 5 SBR Point(s) for this post.
