Buff.bet screwed me for 16K Euros

[RemRoos]

I wanted to sign up at buff.bet in August 2020 but saw listed that they do not accept customers from my country Germany. So I asked in their Bitcointalk topic why they didn't, as their licensor does not forbid accepting Germans:

Under this license, apart from its own diligence and legalities, the license holder is not authorized to offer its services in the territories of Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, France, Netherlands, Australia, UK, Spain, Saba, Statia, St Martin, USA, or any other jurisdiction that the Central Government of Curaçao (formerly the Netherlands Antilles) deems online gambling illegal or are blacklisted.

And in this topic their representative said that Germans are allowed with crypto, but not with Fiat. Then I went to their website and saw indeed that when you select Euro or USD, Germany does not appear on the country list https://imgur.com/mIOyEFM but when you select Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency, Germany does appear https://imgur.com/Zm36Lor. So this confirmed what the representative told me and I opened my account. I played there without problems for a year, even had to do an extensive KYC including a video verification. All was fine and all this time they accepted the fact that I was from Germany. But now this week I requested another withdrawal and this time they asked for another KYC. This was already weird cause I have never seen a book do KYC twice in half a year, but okay. I sent them the documents again and this time I got the following email:

Thank you for the provided photos.

After thoroughly reviewing the provided files with our compliance and legal team it was deemed that, as a German resident, you are in breach of our T&C’s. Your account will be permanently closed in accordance with the released note by the German government body, not allowing us to accept bets and transactions, regardless the type of currency, from users residing in Germany.

Following from this, and being bound by the legal note of the relevant authority, all bets placed are in breach of the applicable law will be deemed void, and any deposits made to be refunded.

After carefully checking the transaction history of all incoming and outgoing transfers since initial account registration, the total amount of your deposits equals to 430 mBTC, while the total withdrawn amount up until now is 500 mBTC. With that being said, we consider that all deposits made so far have been reimbursed and there are no deposits left to be refunded.

Taking the above points into consideration the following terms and conditions have been breached:
3.5 We do not intend for anyone to use the Online Casino/Sportsbook and/or the Website where such use is illegal. The availability of the Online Casino/Sportsbook and/or the Website does not constitute an offer or invitation by us to use the Online Casino/Sportsbook in any place in which such use is illegal. We don’t offer our services to residents from following country or territory: Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Germany, France, Kazakhstan, Poland, Russia, Slovakia (Slovak Republic), Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States of America, S.A.R. and Bulgaria.

We would like to advise you to refrain from registering another account with us as it will be permanently closed and balance voided.

Best regards,

I was in complete shock......399mbtc which is almost 16K Euros confiscated. And even to this date they still allow German clients to sign up. Also no IP-ban on Germany. This is so incredibly unfair.
At first I thought this must be a miscommunication between departments and they didn't realize there is actually a difference between crypto and fiat accounts, but today they even confirmed they stick to their decision.
Any advice on what steps I can take? Surely many facts speak in my favour here?

[lonnie55]

Just pointing to a post of mine regarding books from Galaxy Group (it's in German, so you should be fine): https://www.wettforum.info/forum/boo...45#post5106045

Read also: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...pure-scam.html

[RemRoos]

Just pointing to a post of mine regarding books from Galaxy Group (it's in German, so you should be fine): https://www.wettforum.info/forum/boo...45#post5106045

Read also: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...pure-scam.html

Thanks, but that doesn't help me now....

[lonnie55]

Thanks, but that doesn't help me now....

It's a scam, say good bye to your money. Just wanted to prepare you...

[Optional]

Sounds like a trap, but I doubt there is anything you can do when their terms spend so much time talking about allowed and disallowed jurisdictions https://buff.bet/en/terms-conditions


@Lonnie, do all these Galaxy books ban Germans?

[lonnie55]

Sounds like a trap, but I doubt there is anything you can do when their terms spend so much time talking about allowed and disallowed jurisdictions https://buff.bet/en/terms-conditions


@Lonnie, do all these Galaxy books ban Germans?

I don't know. The last time I played at a Galaxy book was one year ago. But most Curacao books do not care about national laws in EU countries anyway.

[RemRoos]

Sounds like a trap, but I doubt there is anything you can do when their terms spend so much time talking about allowed and disallowed jurisdictions https://buff.bet/en/terms-conditions

@Lonnie, do all these Galaxy books ban Germans?

I clearly asked in the bitcointalk topic why Germans are not allowed, and the answer was that they are actually allowed to register and play, as long as they use crypto and not fiat. Hence also the fact that Germany is not listed in the country list when you sign up with fiat, but Germany is present in the list when you select Bitcoin.

[lonegambler23]

damn thats prob the worst feeling losing all that for zip.

[DontTailMe]

I clearly asked in the bitcointalk topic why Germans are not allowed, and the answer was that they are actually allowed to register and play, as long as they use crypto and not fiat. Hence also the fact that Germany is not listed in the country list when you sign up with fiat, but Germany is present in the list when you select Bitcoin.

Did you save that chat transcript? I would save the transcript of any conversation which is that critical.

[Pinocchio]

I clearly asked in the bitcointalk topic why Germans are not allowed, and the answer was that they are actually allowed to register and play, as long as they use crypto and not fiat. Hence also the fact that Germany is not listed in the country list when you sign up with fiat, but Germany is present in the list when you select Bitcoin.

It's simple, you are a victim of theft.
I hope you manage to get your BTC back.
Never keep a large balance at any book for any reason and never take any assurances they give you at face value.

[RemRoos]

Did you save that chat transcript? I would save the transcript of any conversation which is that critical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3309139.960

Yes, here go to page 49. And I made a screenshot just in case they later edit their posts.

[DontTailMe]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3309139.960
Yes, here go to page 49. And I made a screenshot just in case they later edit their posts.

I see. Well, good luck to you. Not sure if this will make a difference, since others in here seem to be implying that this company is not honorable. But having a representative tell you that it is allowed should weigh in your favor.

[RemRoos]

I see. Well, good luck to you. Not sure if this will make a difference, since others in here seem to be implying that this company is not honorable. But having a representative tell you that it is allowed should weigh in your favor.

Yes, that and the fact that Germany is on the country list when selecting Bitcoin. I have already submitted a complaint at Askgamblers, it will take 48 hours before they can pubish it. Buff at least seem to reply on there so let's see.

[PharaohUB]

Yea you got screwed. You gotta be a little more careful. Do a little google search before you put that much money on the line. Plenty of better options out there.

[redsox2004]

Buff.bet is now part of Xb.systems which is listed on the Vienna stock exchange. May be a long shot but perhaps there are consumer protection laws that could assist you here. If I were in your shoes, I would try absolutely everything before giving up.

[RemRoos]

Buff.bet is now part of Xb.systems which is listed on the Vienna stock exchange. May be a long shot but perhaps there are consumer protection laws that could assist you here. If I were in your shoes, I would try absolutely everything before giving up.

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/XB-SYSTEMS-AG-120279011/news/PRESS-RELEASE-XB-Systems-confirms-17th-September-as-delisting-date-from-Vienna-MTF-35945044/

And delisting in September before planning to list on the NASDAQ shortly after. Interesting.
I will definitely give this company a call on their listed phone number on Monday.

[lonnie55]

It's funny how Buff.bet is ignoring all of your recent posts at Bitcointalk, but spamming instead their promotions. Also, they seem to have removed you from their trust list.

@RemRoos I can forward the contact details of the lawyer in Curacao to you, if Timbo does not reply. Should be a pretty clear case. And with all that background information on Buff.bet (I have to admit that I didn't know they aren't directly linked to the Galaxy Group anymore), you actually should have a chance to get your money.

[RemRoos]

It's funny how Buff.bet is ignoring all of your recent posts at Bitcointalk, but spamming instead their promotions. Also, they seem to have removed you from their trust list.

@RemRoos I can forward the contact details of the lawyer in Curacao to you, if Timbo does not reply.

Yes, it's pathetic. He really thinks it will blow over by ignoring me. I'm glad some respected members in bitcointalk are now also sticking up for me.

No need to forward the details. Timbo already sent me a PM couple days ago. I will definitely contact the lawyer if things won't get resolved in the upcoming week.

[RemRoos]

Thought it would be nice of me to update: after some emails back and forth they have agreed to pay me out my full balance in increments. This is a fair solution to me. So this is a lesson for all to never just give up and keep fighting for your right. In this case court wasn't neccessary afterall but I would have been prepared to really go that way if needed. Thanks for your support in here.

[Optional]

Thought it would be nice of me to update: after some emails back and forth they have agreed to pay me out my full balance in increments. This is a fair solution to me. So this is a lesson for all to never just give up and keep fighting for your right. In this case court wasn't neccessary afterall but I would have been prepared to really go that way if needed. Thanks for your support in here.

Nice job! And thanks for updating this thread.


Glad you are happy but if Buff.bet are so money tight that they need a payment plan to cover your 16k, I'd suggest they will be looking for more bogus reasons to avoid paying other people still.

[RemRoos]

Nice job! And thanks for updating this thread.
Glad you are happy but if Buff.bet are so money tight that they need a payment plan to cover your 16k, I'd suggest they will be looking for more bogus reasons to avoid paying other people still.

They always had a 3000 euro per month max payout limit anyway and they have a solid company (XB Systems) behind them which is on the Vienna Stock Exchange and soon will enter the Nasday, so I'm sure I will receive all my funds just fine.
And yes, what they do to other people is out of my control. I just hope they learnt from this and think before they confiscate balances in the future.

[Optional]

3000 per month max withdraw!

And they wanted a payment plan on top of that??

Geebus, I hope everyone who reads this ignores your opinion that they are solid and takes notice of that limit that proves Buff.bet are far from solid.

Hope you get your money before they are gone.

[RemRoos]

3000 per month max withdraw!

And they wanted a payment plan on top of that??

Geebus, I hope everyone who reads this ignores your opinion that they are solid and takes notice of that limit that proves Buff.bet are far from solid.

Hope you get your money before they are gone.

No, the payment plan of 2000 euro per month was my own idea. I felt I had a better chance of them accepting my offer if I gave them a little bit too. That's negotiating. The most important for me is that I receive my full balance. Whether this take 5 or 7 months is not so important to me. Even in the best scenario it would have taken 5 months cause 3000 euro max is listed in their terms so even legally they could implement this.

They will not be gone anytime soon. They have a solid German company behind them which are going on the Nasdaq soon. They are just one of those careful companies who try to lower their costs on all aspects and have these payout limits in place for that reason too. That means more money for them to grow. There are more solid bookmakers who operate like this, for example the Condor Gaming group (b-bets, 24bettle etc).

[lonnie55]

There are more solid bookmakers who operate like this, for example the Condor Gaming group (b-bets, 24bettle etc).

Condor Gaming = solid???



This group has such a long history of scamming. I have no idea how you can say they are "solid".

RemRoos, seriously. I'm glad you get paid but please stop bootlicking.

[DontTailMe]

Is this what Stockholm Syndrome looks like?

[RemRoos]

Condor Gaming = solid???



This group has such a long history of scamming. I have no idea how you can say they are "solid".

RemRoos, seriously. I'm glad you get paid but please stop bootlicking.

Okay, I didn't know that. All I knew is I had some money in there couple years ago and they paid it all nicely till the last penny, but they had some rediculous low limits too. I didn't mean to make an actual statement about Condor Gaming, it was just meant as an example. A bad one apparently.

And yes I might be a little too posivitive about Buff now, but put yourself in my shoes. Would be pretty stupid to keep badmouthing them when I still have a lot of money to receive in the upcoming months.

[lonnie55]

And yes I might be a little too posivitive about Buff now, but put yourself in my shoes. Would be pretty stupid to keep badmouthing them when I still have a lot of money to receive in the upcoming months.

No one says you have to keep badmouthing them. Just stick to the truth. They tried to scam you. You revealed the scam. Now they are trying to keep face and pretend to be rueful.

Just no need to describe them as "good people" or "solid company" just because they reversed their decision. BTW, if you live in Germany you might have heard of Wirecard. It was a DAX30 company but, nonetheless, a pure scam. Being listed on a stock exchange is not necessarily an indication for a reliable business.

No offense, but to me it seems a bit like it was part of your deal that you have to write positively about them. That's just what disturbs me a bit.

[RemRoos]

No one says you have to keep badmouthing them. Just stick to the truth. They tried to scam you. You revealed the scam. Now they are trying to keep face and pretend to be rueful.

Just no need to describe them as "good people" or "solid company" just because they reversed their decision. BTW, if you live in Germany you might have heard of Wirecard. It was a DAX30 company but, nonetheless, a pure scam. Being listed on a stock exchange is not necessarily an indication for a reliable business.

No offense, but to me it seems a bit like it was part of your deal that you have to write positively about them. That's just what disturbs me a bit.

I understand your point, but I can assure you that was not part of the deal. The only deal was that I had to delete my comments from their Buff topic in the bitcointalk forum, which I will do as soon as they have re-opened it.
You're right, I should not have brought up "good people" and "good company" etc. I guess I just did it cause I was relieved, that's all.

[DontTailMe]

I understand your point, but I can assure you that was not part of the deal. The only deal was that I had to delete my comments from their Buff topic in the bitcointalk forum, which I will do as soon as they have re-opened it.
You're right, I should not have brought up "good people" and "good company" etc. I guess I just did it cause I was relieved, that's all.

I don't blame you for doing what you have to do to get your money. But I absolutely hate that they made this a stipulation. They want to whitewash their history. Regardless of the outcome, they still put you through this ordeal, and it should be known. If they don't want negative posts about them, then they should be more careful not to do this to their customers. They should get credit for making good on it in the end, and that can be done by posting an update to the case. But deleting posts...that's BS IMO.

[RemRoos]

I don't blame you for doing what you have to do to get your money. But I absolutely hate that they made this a stipulation. They want to whitewash their history. Regardless of the outcome, they still put you through this ordeal, and it should be known. If they don't want negative posts about them, then they should be more careful not to do this to their customers. They should get credit for making good on it in the end, and that can be done by posting an update to the case. But deleting posts...that's BS IMO.

Well to be honest, I offered this myself. I figured they might want this from me so I thought I better offer it already, it doesn't cost me anything to remove the posts. So I guess we will never know if they would have required me to do so in order to get a deal.
By the way, they are not very eager to have the posts deleted since now, 3 days after the deal, they still haven't unlocked their own Bitcointalk topic so the posts are all still there. They're not in a hurry so maybe it's not that important to them after all.