Touchback do you know the 18th owners.?
They owe me several thousand and probably won't
see the money.
They owe me several thousand and probably won't
see the money.
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did you file a complaint with sbr? if they are stiffing you they deserve some sbr news feed for that.Comment -
Hey Doc.... I know the owners of the service provider. 18th turns out too be a subagent of a primary agent. The current situation is being reviewed by the service for possible service termination. I do not directly know the guy behind 18th, just his name. The way this is going to work is they will get a short amount of time to correct their issues and if not then they will be cut loose. Hope you get your money but as suggested they should of only been tried for a hundro so that should be the maximum of your principle losses... not so much how I see it.Comment -
I find it interesting you know so much touchback. I also would not suggest throwing a $100 in a book that is unknown and just comes out of nowhere and mass emails 100% bonus offers, I mean books like 1slice are in the game off 100 percent bonus hoping most will lose yet they are known to care about their reputation and limit and or show big winners the door yet alot of documented payouts. i got another damn email from 18th craphole today 200% bonus. I'd say the most alarming thing is the shills are tight lipped.Comment -
Well Hank... as long as I have been in Costa Rica in the business I am in I have managed to make quite a few friends. So in the end I can find out just about anything and if I cannot find out by calling I can just go to one of the local Sabana bars and get an IT or wagering clerk or CSD clerk drunk and suck everything he knows about the book he works at out of him... nothing like a drunk Tico, loves to talk. Not sure how this whole 18th deal is going to pan out but a hundro for me is nothing. It is the going amount to test a service so what the hell. If you cannot afford to lose a hundro stop gambling. Keep posting though, you make me laugh a lot.Comment -
i agree $100 is nothing that said why should send $10 deposit to some dirtbag that has not proven themself ,can't afford to advertise and chooses to create shill accounts on every forum on the net.Comment -
Well... to find out if they are a dirt bag someone has to pony up just enough to get the required data to make an honest judgment of the criteria we look at too consider them a good out so the rest know if they are safe or not. A hundro is a start not $10... and only those guys that need these types of outs should be the ones testing them out. A recreational player such as yourself has no need for a service like this and should actually avoid until the rest of us get to the bottom of things. I was originally given certain information based on the master agent which is one thing and it turns out 18th is run by a sub agent, so apples and oranges. They have nothing to do with the famous post up brand that people are linking them too. That crew has always paid its players and have always tried to pay them fast even if they are having P issues or things are running perfect. But they are not the same and contacting the postup service will do absolutely nothing for anyone that does. The service provider for 18th is also not responsible, just how perhead service works. The agent is responsible for all player financials, period. The most a service provider with a good reputation will do is cut service and not even all of them will do that if the agent is up to date with the service fees. This particular service provider has been around forever and will not tolerate bullshit, I know this for a fact. I have always tried to be helpful and truthful. If any recreational guys sent this crew a hundro based on what I posted, which they could not afford to lose and happened to win and not get paid then I apologize. Not everything is as black and white around these parts and I do the best I can to help you guys out. I am also in the process of dealing with this because I believe a few guys that follow my posts may of sent them some money and I am going to have 1 of 2 things happen. They will be paid or the place is going to lose its service provider within 10 business days. What more can I do... As stated before, at this point after 10 years in the biz the last 4 years I am a consultant and have worked with 30 to 40 different brands which is why I know so many people in the biz, a phone call or lunch away... and they are not just clerks. So take it for what it is worth, I do not like to see anyone lose money from service stiffage. Anyway, come Hank... give me a laugh. I like you.
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I have spoken to my guy at 18th and there was a bad line out there for a few minutes that several people took advantage of. Accounts were closed, 2 people were paid, same day, and the other 2 decided it was okay to start using threats, etc, etc. instead of just saying "Ok I admit, I bet a clear bad line I'll take my payout and won't play here again." They would've gotten paid, but they decided that to take a different approach.
Boom. End of discussion.Comment -
Steve... agreed that quite a few jerks run to the forums at the drop of a hat screaming the sky is falling. Not only should OPs be aware of these guys but MODs and the FORUM should be as well and handle the crap appropriately which SBR has done. Every time one of these guys pulls one of these stunts it leads to services adding another reason to not cooperate with the forums for arbitration or mediation of a dispute and this just hurts players and the forums when it comes to legitimate reasons. The forums are a valuable asset not to be abused by jerkoffs and you guys that use them should protect them as if they were yours because they are in a sense yours. So I am saying, do not let a guy come into your house and just take a crap...Comment -
Well... in my honest opinion I think this minor bump in the road will clear up as soon as a certain guy takes care ( gets taken care of) something and gets back in the shop and over sees his people. At the moment I have no comment about 18th other than this will be sorted out shortly and none of my guys are gonna get stiffed.Comment -
i read everything you wrote touchback, the fact remains why deposit a penny in an unrated book.Comment -
Like I said Hank... you should not deposit a penny. Only guys (PROs) that have been sharped, limited or kicked out who are looking for outs would be interested in a place like this. A Pro needs 8 to 10 outs and is gambling for a lively hood, this is a full time job for them. You with a 9 to 5 and gamble for entertainment do not need it... so do not deposit and ignore their emails. By the way.... where is my frickn laugh PAL.Comment -
PS... is your local rated. Something to think about.Comment -
imo at the end of the day i agree with touch. even as a rec player if someone is offering a decent bonus and you throw down a 100 if you turn it into something and get paid out if not you lost a 100 bucks no big deal. this is how you find some diamonds in the rough especially in the beginning of starting a book. easiest way for them to get business is by paying. that word spreads almost as fast as bad publicity. if you cant afford to risk a 100 bucks and take a shot you shouldnt be gambling.Comment -
I was one of them
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John... what was your principle deposit and did you take a bonus. If you took a bonus what was the rollover and or terms...Comment -
My first deposit was 500 and I think I got 100% and 10 times rollovers. That was back before last football season so not 100% sureComment -
Hmmm.... a nickel. That is not exactly light weight for a recreational player, 10 time rollover is nothing on a nickel though... hopefully this will all get sorted out soon enough. Have to sit back and see...Comment -
touchback what's the point of depositing 100 and making a bunch of 15 dollar wagers? then you cash out and they send you your $113.50 great but do you really think that is at all indicative of how they'll react when you deposit 5k and go to withdraw 10k in a month's time?
even scamshops like betmania, betrevolution will probably send some chump his winnings when it is under a dime or a nickel. but that doesn't give me any confidence that they'll pay up when we're talking about real moneyComment -
Have to start somewhere and the start is a hundro and work your way up. A guy could realistically work a hundro with or without a good bonus into 2 to 5 dimes and the withdrawal on that and others would be the initial indicators... of a services potential. All new services are high risk and all new services offer big bonuses to get brand traction and establish a customer base, there are no exceptions in this aspect of the game/biz. I would throw down a hundro and take a 100% bonus with a 10x rollover... could do a lot of damage with that much and learn quite a bit with a small principle at stake. I like new shops for the fast hit and run, they are always good for paying fast the first 60 to 90 days... after that sit back and watch for a while and see how they do. They also usually have limited sharp lists and no action histories to profile you quickly so you can get in and out. At the moment I would not deposit and do a wait and see on how they deal with things...Comment -
touchback my man where we at with these guys, you think its safe to go in the water?Comment -
Well... to be honest I have heard nothing bad other than that one guy. It is now a case of he said-she said, but I have been around a while and was waiting to see if anyone else came forward with a complaint. You would think that there would be others if the players complaints were valid but I have heard nothing so I am at the point of giving 18th the benefit of the doubt. A tip though, be reasonable with the deposit amount and at the moment PROs would only look at this out for a big bonus which they would arb out at a 1st or 2nd tier service and withdrawal. If you do not understand what I mean let us know and someone will explain... I am sure.Comment -
so is it safe or not god damn.Comment -
Arbing a free play bonus only works if your free play happens to lose. If free play wins & you lose the opposite side in another book, you're essentially even. The only books I know that allow 4 team parlays on free plays for 76% guaranteed profit are DSI & Bookmaker. They are A+ books as well, the only 2 books I need to do business with.Comment -
two facts is 18th hole uses obvious shills on multiple forums and sends bulk emails constantly. These shills are not active now either. Why bother with 100% bonuses when you're gambling on getting paid. Hell if you deposited $20 at sportsbook.ag and won a $15000 on a 10 team parlay at least you know you'll get paid.(slow of course)Comment -
I was one of those shills, and I am still around lol. I have since hooked up with a local, and being a rec player, dont need a ton of options. I still stand by my schill like remarks though that customer service at 18th has always been awesome. BTW the reason there were so many schills is they offer a 50% referal bonus, with 10x roll over on it. So I had guys deposit a nickel and would get $250 in my account to play with, which means everyone trying to scrape together a roll will schill for them. I just like free shit lolComment -
I bet they would pay fast, I also bet if you won 20k on a 9 team parlay you would not be paid and I don't wanna play at a place were if you hit some big cash it very questionable. for examble i am on a forum sponsered by books that offer 100% freeplays all day long providing you are a first time customer or loser. The have been known to pay off winners and terminate the account. fine with me. but some unheard book, no thanks, take your 100% bonus and shove itt up your a$$Comment -
OK... about arbing. When we say "arb the bonus out" we actually mean the whole balance. That is the principle and the bonus at another funded out. Why you ask... well, arbers usually look for a large bonus of 100% or more which usually has a fairly large rollover or maybe you would prefer to try and withdrawal from a more established or trusted service. Really what they are doing is picking up a large bonus at multiple places and arbing them all out. So shop A 100% and shop B 100% or even C or D... which with methodical line comparison and action you will eventually convert it all out and withdrawal. This is what Euro arbers do and why bonus shops stopped taking on Euro accounts or heavily limiting them as of a couple years ago. Meaning either no Euro account or reduced bonuses at maybe 10% or 20% and being limited quickly... a good arber cannot be beat by the house, it is a matter of which service the arber chooses to bust and which ones pays. Also, arbers action are not necessarily sharp, so they are difficult to spot by risk teams because they are line comparing and not being wise. A professional, an example is Fishead who has claimed having 12 to 15 funded outs at any one time during the year, can easily arb out with this many available services and lines a bonus quite quickly and spread it out so no particular service will see it by looking at a wagering history. Being a Pro is also about being able to keep a good out which means not giving them (any particular service) an a55 whipping in any given 30 day period. If you did this with 18th and converted out you could ask for the bonus again and probably get it and by the 3rd time of getting it again could turn around and withdrawal on them since you are now profiled most likely as a hamburger. Pro wagering is not just about picking a line that is going to win and putting as much action as you possibly can. It is a long term, well thought out and executed job that generates a long term livelihood... So, one type of Pro is basically going to have 10 or more funded accounts and is going to try and pick up as many huge bonuses as possible not caring about the rollover and try and convert the bonuses out at his withdrawal shops while trying to get some locks down. All the while not hitting any particular withdrawal service too hard to be limited or kicked out. With this many services you can spread out the payouts as well as keep them reasonable and do it day after day, week after week and month after month... combined it can support a financially nice life style.Comment
