If God already knows how everything will happen, why bother to pray?

[princecharles]

Since it is believed God knows all things that have been, and will be, from the beginning of time to the infinite future, and God doesn't make mistakes or 'change His mind', why do we bother to beg him over and over for something in the future to happen, since all is all ready ordained.

If you say prayer is not for God, but really for us, than be honest and call it what it is, a self-affirming motivational behavior, akin to Tony Robbins-ish 'positive thinking'.

There's a lot more to this paradox, so let me hear the comments first, and reply accordingly.

Jewish, Christian or the other guys please chime in, as along with the seemingly senseless allowance of human pain, this is my one other top religious conundrum.

[acl123]

There is no god

[paranoyd androyd]

you pray for your salvation only.

[LordVodka]

This stuff has been argued to death. I suggest looking up George Carlin material on God, he addresses all this stuff better than any of us could.

[PAULYPOKER]

You pray because you were taught to believe you are powerless.................

[The Inevitable]

God knows the future, doesn't mean it's already happened. There are many different futures, if you pray you can find the right one. ......Understand?

[The Inevitable]

There is no god

Why not?

[Mikail]

The answer is: "GOD" knows what is going to happen in your case. But as far as you are concerned, your success or failure depends on so many factors. Some of these factors are at your disposal; "GOD" has willed it to be so. Some other factors are out of your control. You pray to "GOD" because "GOD" can hear your prayer and answer it, and if He wills it, He can remove those factors that may cause your failure so that you will be successful. It is not reasonable for you to say that the results will be the same whether you study or not; and you do not know the results in advance. "GOD" is Ever-Active and Watchful; remember that.

[betplom]

Fact:

God hates the Buffalo Bills.

[a4u2fear]

Fact:

God hates the Buffalo Bills.

Maybe Tim Russert can help the cause?

[baskets]

God sucked my dick one time


It was a hell of an orgasm!!!

[PAULYPOKER]

Fact:

God hates the Buffalo Bills.

Not as much as Cleveland...........

[downsouth]

So the all mighty powerful creator of the universe sits above and watches us go thru life screwing with selected ones for sometimes no apparent reason.

While I will not tell you there is not a higher power it is just fairly hard to imagine that he/she justs sits up above basically fukking with people on various levels.

[dante1]

Many people died over this question, and other similar questions. Protestants and Catholics killed each other for centuries over these exact type questions. Muslims are doing it now. I call it the evolution of religion, it has to happen before a religion wakes up and only kills on occasion and not like it is a sacrament.

Pity!

[MatI]

There is no god

Sharpest reply so far.

[JayHorne3]

So basically you believe that this entire world, every animal, insect, plant, and creature was made out of some miraculous miracle pertaining to an explosion of particles millions of years ago? So let me ask at the time when there was nothing, meaning absolute nothing (no planets, air, no matter nor anti-matter), where did the first particle of matter/anti-matter come from? Did it just miraculously appear? Newton's 3rd law states for every action, there is an equal or opposite reaction. What I am asking is what made the first action at a time of non-existence? I just do not understand how people say there is not a god. Take a look at the human anatomy and the complexity it takes just to take a single breath of air. I guess us humans are every so "lucky" to evolve/materialize over time into the most dominant living being on the planet. Pure luck I tell you. People have extreme issues psychologically believing something they can not see. I wonder if anyone here believes in ghost but not in God? Yet ghost are seen by millions every year and people still have a hard time believing because they have not seen. I for one, have seen the dead walk therefore believe in the afterlife and supreme power that is God. For me, the proof is everywhere.

In response to the opening question, God may know the outcome but that does not change each individual's control over their own destiny. God only knows what "will" happen, but each person determines their destiny to carry out what God knows will come to be.

[Dutch]

Does he create us just so he can test our faith? Just so he can judge us? Eve eats an apple and now we're all born of sin and expected to prove ourselves constantly? Sometimes expected to beg for forgiveness? Nonsense.

I have no opinion on how the universe began, but I have 100% faith that it's not the makings of some all knowing father figure in the sky.

The mysteries of the universe are so much more interesting than the concept of god.

[Sunde91]

Just in case he changes his mind

God has the plan that is best for every person to have ever existed. Pray your little baby son doesn't die a miserable and pointless life weeks after birth (hypothetical), and God may or may not change his mind. If he changes his mind, it's because he loves you. If he doesn't change his mind, it's because it's God's plan and he knows best. Just have FAITH and pray and God will work it out.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

Why not?

cause god doesn't make sense...

just think about it, if god really did exist would he make teblow that bad of a qb?

[kaspersports702]

God sucked my dick one time


It was a hell of an orgasm!!!

You better hope there is no God otherwise you might be in for a hell of a life.

[kaspersports702]

Newtons law?

I got news for you guys. Scientists "laws" are laws in their own minds. Im not saying they are all BS, but keep in mind 200 years ago it was a "law" that the Earth was flat.

[The Inevitable]

cause god doesn't make sense...

just think about it, if god really did exist would he make teblow that bad of a qb?

God provided us with a means to make a decision: a brain. Then provided us with a means to execute that decision: arms, legs, muscles, hands, feet. If Tebow sucks, it's because Tebow can't execute the right actions, using what he was given (i.e. make a proper pass). God provided us with tools, it's up to us to use them properly.

This is fun.

[face]

god is lazy. think about it

[pronk]

There is no god

^^^ idiot ^^^

Easiest thing for a fool is to say "there's no God".

[Dutch]

^^^ idiot ^^^

Easiest thing for a fool is to say "there's no God".

Not as easy as saying "I don't understand something, that must mean there is a god who dictates our lives."

[BettingWizard]

there's many biblical examples where a human negotiated with god

moses did it a ton, and you know the story of lot where God said there had to be 50 good people or whatever, and Lot negotiated down to 5 people

[BettingWizard]

So basically you believe that this entire world, every animal, insect, plant, and creature was made out of some miraculous miracle pertaining to an explosion of particles millions of years ago? So let me ask at the time when there was nothing, meaning absolute nothing (no planets, air, no matter nor anti-matter), where did the first particle of matter/anti-matter come from? Did it just miraculously appear? Newton's 3rd law states for every action, there is an equal or opposite reaction. What I am asking is what made the first action at a time of non-existence? I just do not understand how people say there is not a god. Take a look at the human anatomy and the complexity it takes just to take a single breath of air. I guess us humans are every so "lucky" to evolve/materialize over time into the most dominant living being on the planet. Pure luck I tell you. People have extreme issues psychologically believing something they can not see. I wonder if anyone here believes in ghost but not in God? Yet ghost are seen by millions every year and people still have a hard time believing because they have not seen. I for one, have seen the dead walk therefore believe in the afterlife and supreme power that is God. For me, the proof is everywhere.

In response to the opening question, God may know the outcome but that does not change each individual's control over their own destiny. God only knows what "will" happen, but each person determines their destiny to carry out what God knows will come to be.

I'll also add that the sun being the exact amount of distance it needs to be for life to be possible. Any closer or further, and we are all dead

Also things in space never colliding into our planet

You can add a million other things.


The Mathematical odds of everything falling in place for us to exist, is a number too big for us to even imagine

[Sunde91]

Here's a situation that demonstrates the majesty of God's plan.

2 drivers. One a loving father of 5, dedicates his life to the poor, goes to church, reads his bible. The other a murderer rapist. Both get killed in the same car accident.

The father died because God said it was HIS TIME to go. It was actually a blessing he was killed because God, of course, has a plan for him in heaven. OTOH, the murderer was PUNISHED FOR HIS SINS and his evilness was purged from the earth. God is good this way.

Now pretend neither died and live til 90. The father was given a full and healthy life under the graces of God, because he lived the way of Christ. The murderer was allowed to survive because God wanted to give him time to change his ways. God is very forgiving and always open for you to comeback to him.

We can never truly understand God's plan but this is a rough breakdown of its mastery and righteousness.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

Here's a situation that demonstrates the majesty of God's plan.

2 drivers. One a loving father of 5, dedicates his life to the poor, goes to church, reads his bible. The other a murderer rapist. Both get killed in the same car accident.

The father died because God said it was HIS TIME to go. It was actually a blessing he was killed because God, of course, has a plan for him in heaven. OTOH, the murderer was PUNISHED FOR HIS SINS and his evilness was purged from the earth. God is good this way.

Now pretend neither died and live til 90. The father was given a full and healthy life under the graces of God, because he lived the way of Christ. The murderer was allowed to survive because God wanted to give him time to change his ways. God is very forgiving and always open for you to comeback to him.

We can never truly understand God's plan but this is a rough breakdown of its mastery and righteousness.

what if the father of 5 didn't believe in god but was the biggest philanthropist on earth and wouldn't kill a fly.

otoh, the murderer was a devout christian but had mental problems in which he went on a killing spree shooting everything on sight then right before he was killed by the cops, he asks for forgiveness then dies?

what's god's plans for them now?

religion is a fairytale that can be scripted anyway they please. you know why? cause nobody can prove it but there will always be believers...

[Ghenghis Kahn]

God provided us with a means to make a decision: a brain. Then provided us with a means to execute that decision: arms, legs, muscles, hands, feet. If Tebow sucks, it's because Tebow can't execute the right actions, using what he was given (i.e. make a proper pass). God provided us with tools, it's up to us to use them properly.

This is fun.

[chilidog]

God supports incest. If you believe in God, then you also support incest.

[LarrysKid]

On the original topic about why pray if God is all knowing and omnipresent. The incorrect assumption is that all prayer is about asking for things or favors. Prayer can be used to give thanks to God or whatever higher power you believe in if in fact you do believe in one or more. Prayer is not a completely selfish act but is mostly used for selfish reasons. It is a shame that it is used as such but part of the core of prayer is that it is really just a form of wishful thinking. It doesn't have to be this way but that's just how it is, we are inherently selfish so our prayer is as well.

Also things in space never colliding into our planet


The Mathematical odds of everything falling in place for us to exist, is a number too big for us to even imagine

Please do some fact checking.

[muldoon]

Also things in space never colliding into our planet

Google Chicxulub crater

[SprayBoy]

So basically you believe that this entire world, every animal, insect, plant, and creature was made out of some miraculous miracle pertaining to an explosion of particles millions of years ago? So let me ask at the time when there was nothing, meaning absolute nothing (no planets, air, no matter nor anti-matter), where did the first particle of matter/anti-matter come from? Did it just miraculously appear? Newton's 3rd law states for every action, there is an equal or opposite reaction. What I am asking is what made the first action at a time of non-existence? I just do not understand how people say there is not a god. Take a look at the human anatomy and the complexity it takes just to take a single breath of air. I guess us humans are every so "lucky" to evolve/materialize over time into the most dominant living being on the planet. Pure luck I tell you. People have extreme issues psychologically believing something they can not see. I wonder if anyone here believes in ghost but not in God? Yet ghost are seen by millions every year and people still have a hard time believing because they have not seen. I for one, have seen the dead walk therefore believe in the afterlife and supreme power that is God. For me, the proof is everywhere.

In response to the opening question, God may know the outcome but that does not change each individual's control over their own destiny. God only knows what "will" happen, but each person determines their destiny to carry out what God knows will come to be.

I.....I don't even know where to start. I hate to have to say this, but you give me the awful impression of having never read a book against your side ever.
If you respond back I'd be more than happy to give you a complete and detailed response to each point as I love enlightening people to humanism/atheism/science. But for now here's some very simple errors and assumptions you've made:

1. Essentially everyone that doesn't understand evolution believes it is as follows: Either it was luck, or God did it. Wrong...evolution is not "luck" whatsoever. We have a very detailed understanding as to why and how humanity emerged as it did: evolution by natural selection (which is, by definition, NON-random).

2. You absolutely cannot apply any of newton's laws outside this universe. Hence using those to annihilate the possibility of something from nothing is quite literally non-logical. (Here I would recommend the brilliant physicist Laurence Krauss' book: a universe from nothing).

3. The ghost argument you present isn't even really worth addressing. But seeing as you believe in the walking dead, I don't think you exactly ooze of credibility/sanity.

annnddd just for fun, here's my favourite statistic and a quote that sums up religion quite well:

The correlation between IQ/Academic standing and atheism is beyond staggering. Well over 80% in America believe in God....how about in the Universities you wonder?? 5%....yes exactly, 5% of our brightest minds believe in this "supreme being" while 95% do not. Go figure.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason".

Did you know that the most atheistic country in the world per capita is Sweden? They also happened to be ranked as the greatest place to live based on quality of life, they have extraordinarily low crime rates and they are remarkably advanced. Religion is hands down the most atrocious poison that humanity has ever fought. It has caused BILLIONS of deaths needlessly, and it only continues to do so.

Please please please, I beg you not to take a couple thousand year old book that promotes slavery, genocide and rape amongst MANY other things, as your guidance to life. Science, humanism and commitment to the Truth are what is important.

[princecharles]

I.....I don't even know where to start. I hate to have to say this, but you give me the awful impression of having never read a book against your side ever.
If you respond back I'd be more than happy to give you a complete and detailed response to each point as I love enlightening people to humanism/atheism/science. But for now here's some very simple errors and assumptions you've made:

1. Essentially everyone that doesn't understand evolution believes it is as follows: Either it was luck, or God did it. Wrong...evolution is not "luck" whatsoever. We have a very detailed understanding as to why and how humanity emerged as it did: evolution by natural selection (which is, by definition, NON-random).

2. You absolutely cannot apply any of newton's laws outside this universe. Hence using those to annihilate the possibility of something from nothing is quite literally non-logical. (Here I would recommend the brilliant physicist Laurence Krauss' book: a universe from nothing).

3. The ghost argument you present isn't even really worth addressing. But seeing as you believe in the walking dead, I don't think you exactly ooze of credibility/sanity.

annnddd just for fun, here's my favourite statistic and a quote that sums up religion quite well:

The correlation between IQ/Academic standing and atheism is beyond staggering. Well over 80% in America believe in God....how about in the Universities you wonder?? 5%....yes exactly, 5% of our brightest minds believe in this "supreme being" while 95% do not. Go figure.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason".

Did you know that the most atheistic country in the world per capita is Sweden? They also happened to be ranked as the greatest place to live based on quality of life, they have extraordinarily low crime rates and they are remarkably advanced. Religion is hands down the most atrocious poison that humanity has ever fought. It has caused BILLIONS of deaths needlessly, and it only continues to do so.

Please please please, I beg you not to take a couple thousand year old book that promotes slavery, genocide and rape amongst MANY other things, as your guidance to life. Science, humanism and commitment to the Truth are what is important.

EXCELLENT!
I have now found my sparring partner.
Let's start real 'easy'. And by the way I'm as Bill Mahar put it in Religilous not on any 'side', just looking for answers, and I'm amazed at the amount of certitude that exists.

I'm assuming understanding the brilliance of Dawkins, Hitchens(RIP), Harris, etc are well within your wheel house, right?

Let's take your first point about evolution being the front runner of the actual truth.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LACK OF AN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO EXPECTED FOSSIL RECORD.
(And no cheating bringing up the Galapolous Islands!) :-/)

Sorry for the caps there, but this point is highly charged, and for good reason.