FOR RENT: Millions of Americans Homes in Foreclosure

[opie1988]

Downsouth gets it. Good stuff, pal.

Liberal fukks always want to blame the upper class for the lower classes problems.

Why shouldn't a nail tech be able to have a 400k home with a media room & a gym?? The bank executive has one. How is that fair??

What a joke.

No worries, though. Only a few more months and we'll have that colored fella out of the white house. Should see improvement rather quickly.

[muldoon]

Why shouldn't a nail tech be able to have a 400k home with a media room & a gym?? The bank executive has one. How is that fair??

'People should not walk away from lawful debts'
‘What about the message they will send to their family and their kids and their friends?’
-- CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Association, John Courson

Now watch this

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-7-2010/mortgage-bankers-association-strategic-default

[TexansFan]

Only minorities and retards would vote for Obama the 2nd time around. The guy is a miserable failure. He took a bad situation left by Bush and has only made it worse.

[PAULYPOKER]

The only way you people can say this was the consumers fault is either you are criminals yourselves or just brain dead.........

Explained is 7 minutes,why the banks are to blame 100%...........

[PAULYPOKER]

The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia
By Matt Taibbi
June 21, 2012 11:20 AM ET






Illustration by Victor Juhasz

Someday, it will go down in history as the first trial of the modern American mafia. Of course, you won't hear the recent financial corruption case, United States of America v. Carollo, Goldberg and Grimm, called anything like that. If you heard about it at all, you're probably either in the municipal bond business or married to an antitrust lawyer. Even then, all you probably heard was that a threesome of bit players on Wall Street got convicted of obscure antitrust violations in one of the most inscrutable, jargon-packed legal snoozefests since the government's massive case against Microsoft in the Nineties – not exactly the thrilling courtroom drama offered by the famed trials of old-school mobsters like Al Capone or Anthony "Tony Ducks" Corallo.
But this just-completed trial in downtown New York against three faceless financial executives really was historic. Over 10 years in the making, the case allowed federal prosecutors to make public for the first time the astonishing inner workings of the reigning American crime syndicate, which now operates not out of Little Italy and Las Vegas, but out of Wall Street.
The defendants in the case – Dominick Carollo, Steven Goldberg and Peter Grimm – worked for GE Capital, the finance arm of General Electric. Along with virtually every major bank and finance company on Wall Street – not just GE, but J.P. Morgan Chase, BkofAma, UBS, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Wachovia and more – these three Wall Street wiseguys spent the past decade taking part in a breathtakingly broad scheme to skim billions of dollars from the coffers of cities and small towns across America. The banks achieved this gigantic rip-off by secretly colluding to rig the public bids on municipal bonds, a business worth $3.7 trillion. By conspiring to lower the interest rates that towns earn on these investments, the banks systematically stole from schools, hospitals, libraries and nursing homes – from "virtually every state, district and territory in the United States," according to one settlement. And they did it so cleverly that the victims never even knew they were being *cheated. No thumbs were broken, and nobody ended up in a landfill in New Jersey, but money disappeared, lots and lots of it, and its manner of disappearance had a familiar name: organized crime.
In fact, stripped of all the camouflaging financial verbiage, the crimes the defendants and their co-conspirators committed were virtually indistinguishable from the kind of thuggery practiced for decades by the Mafia, which has long made manipulation of public bids for things like garbage collection and construction contracts a cornerstone of its business. What's more, in the manner of old mob trials, Wall Street's secret machinations were revealed during the Carollo trial through crackling wiretap recordings and the lurid testimony of cooperating witnesses, who came into court with bowed heads, pointing fingers at their accomplices. The new-age gangsters even invented an elaborate code to hide their crimes. Like Elizabethan highway robbers who spoke in thieves' cant, or Italian mobsters who talked about "getting a button man to clip the capo," on tape after tape these Wall Street crooks coughed up phrases like "pull a nickel out" or "get to the right level" or "you're hanging out there" – all code words used to manipulate the interest rates on municipal bonds. The only thing that made this trial different from a typical mob trial was the scale of the crime.
USA v. Carollo involved classic cartel activity: not just one corrupt bank, but many, all acting in careful concert against the public interest. In the years since the economic crash of 2008, we've seen numerous hints that such orchestrated corruption exists. The collapses of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, for instance, both pointed to coordi*nated attacks by powerful banks and hedge funds determined to speed the demise of those firms. In the bankruptcy of Jefferson County, Alabama, we learned that Goldman Sachs accepted a $3 million bribe from J.P. Morgan Chase to permit Chase to serve as the sole provider of toxic swap deals to the rubes running metropolitan Birmingham – "an open-and-shut case of anti-competitive behavior," as one former regulator described it.
More recently, a major international investigation has been launched into the manipulation of Libor, the interbank lending index that is used to calculate global interest rates for products worth more than $3 trillion a year. If and when that case is presented to the public at trial – there are several major civil suits in the works here in the States – we may yet find out that the world's most powerful banks have, for years, been fixing the prices of almost every adjustable-rate vehicle on earth, from mortgages and ************ to interest-rate swaps and even currencies.
But USA v. Carollo marks the first time we actually got incontrovertible evidence that Wall Street has moved into this cartel-type brand of criminality. It also offered a disgusting glimpse into the enabling and grossly cynical role played by politicians, who took Super Bowl tickets and bribe-stuffed envelopes to look the other way while gangsters raided the public kitty. And though the punishments that were ultimately handed down in the trial – minor convictions of three bit players – felt deeply unsatisfying, it was still a watershed moment in the ongoing story of America's gradual awakening to the realities of financial corruption. In a post-crash era where Wall Street trials almost never make it into court, and even the harshest settlements end with the evidence buried by the government and the offending banks permitted to escape with no admission of wrongdoing, this case finally dragged the whole ugly truth of American finance out into the open – and it was a hell of a show.
1. THE SCAM
This was no trial scene from popular lore, no Inherit the Wind or State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson. No gallery packed with rapt spectators, no ceiling fans set whirring to beat back the tension and the heat, no defense counsel's resting a sympathetic hand on the defendant's shoulder as opening statements commence. No, the setting for USA v. Carollo reflected the bizarre alternate universe that exists on Wall Street. Like so many court cases involving big banks, the proceeding looked more like a roomful of expensive lawyers negotiating a major corporate merger than a public search for justice.
The trial began on April 16th in a federal court in Lower Manhattan. The courtroom, an aerielike setting 23 stories up, offered a panoramic view of the city and the East River. Though the gallery was usually full throughout the three-plus weeks of testimony, the spectators were not average citizens come to witness how they had been robbed blind by America's biggest banks. Instead, there were row after row of suits – other lawyers eager to observe a long-awaited case, one that could influence the outcome in a handful of civil suits pending across the country. In fact, the defendants themselves, whom the trial would reveal as easily replaceable cogs in a much larger machine of corruption, were barely visible from the gallery, obscured by the great chattering congress of prosecution and defense attorneys.
Only the presence of the mostly nonwhite and elderly jury, which resembled the front pew of a Harlem church, served as a reminder that the case had any connection to the real world. Even reporters from most of the major news outlets didn't bother to attend. The judge in the trial, the right honorable and amusingly cantankerous Harold Baer, acknowledged that the case was not likely to set the public's pulse racing. "It is unlikely, I think, that this will generate a lot of media publicity," Baer sighed to the jury in his preliminary instructions.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz1yZ24B9tb

[PickWinnerAllDay]

If you work hard and smart in this country, you will be financially sound.

That is a damn guarantee. This myth that there are people working hard and smart and struggling to buy food is just a myth.

[Thor4140]

The only way you people can say this was the consumers fault is either you are criminals yourselves or just brain dead.........

Explained is 7 minutes,why the banks are to blame 100%...........

u can't go this deep with Fox News watching nitwits who will run with a sound bite they are spoon fed, because they are to stupid and lazy to think for themselves. It sounds better to just blame it on the common man because Fox News and nitwit neo-con radio knows this works with these lazy thinkers. I bet none of them even attempted to listen to this piece. This is what the country is up against. These type of ass hats that will believe anything a bunch of crooks will shovel them.

[Thor4140]

If you work hard and smart in this country, you will be financially sound.

That is a damn guarantee. This myth that there are people working hard and smart and struggling to buy food is just a myth.

another nitwit running with a sound bite.

[Thor4140]

Only minorities and retards would vote for Obama the 2nd time around. The guy is a miserable failure. He took a bad situation left by Bush and has only made it worse.

Now this coming from a cop who votes republican while watching republicans cut cops jobs. Talk about voting against ur own economic interest. This braindead poster is the poster child for it. lmfao.

[rkelly110]

A friend of mine was a loan broker until 'bama shut him down. He was trying to push home loans on us
until I got tired of hearing it and told the guy he was trying to sell him a loan, to do his own assesment
on his finances to see if he could afford it.

The people selling those loans could care less what your Fica score was or did not take into account everyday
living expenses, insurance and taxes.

That's where the consumer should've done their own homework and decide what they can afford.
Yes, the mortgage industry was wrong, but so was the consumer. Economics 101.

[Thor4140]

Yes, because a real estate agent is the one who is tuned in. Afterall, they did take a $400 online course that surely qualifies them as an expert. 90% of real estate agents are fukk tard morons and that is who you think has a clue.

.

i get it so every real estate agent is retarded. Maybe down south they are but we have some sharp ones here in the east. Im sure u are one of many that refused to listen to the piece by Matt Tiabbi. Continue on throwing out those two cent sound bites u hear from Fix News.

[Thor4140]

A friend of mine was a loan broker until 'bama shut him down. He was trying to push home loans on us
until I got tired of hearing it and told the guy he was trying to sell him a loan, to do his own assesment
on his finances to see if he could afford it.

The people selling those loans could care less what your Fica score was or did not take into account everyday
living expenses, insurance and taxes.

That's where the consumer should've done their own homework and decide what they can afford.
Yes, the mortgage industry was wrong, but so was the consumer. Economics 101.

5 percent of the mortgages in question went belly up. 5 percent. Not 50 percent. five percent. It sounds like it is 1 out of every two. Heck it sounds like it is 3 out of every 4 if u want to believe misleading people who pedal their nonsense to gullible people..

[Bluehorseshoe]

I really hate sounding like im sticking up for banks as I generally dislike pretty much everything about them. But didnt 90 soemthing percent of the bailout money get repaid to the government plus interest, I hated that we gave it to them but they did give it back. And your a moron if you think they did not lose money on the housing market collapse(most of it deserved in my opinion)

Of course they could pay it back. They're always making money and get to play by different rules from the average person. They screw up, they get bailed out and their credit is intact, the person who lost their home doesn't get the same break. They're destroyed. On top of it, the banks don't try to make the situation any better by refinancing the people that are underwater. They let them rot! My GF and her mother (in order to the right thing of their "underwater" home) have two families living in their property and they have to live in a finished basement apartment. I told them to walk away, but they won't.

I'm not making excuses for the people who bought property who shouldn't have been buying. It was dumb. Owning a house is an investment and the prices on real estate were overinflated as it was, but the banks and Wall Street have their own penalties from the rest of us and to most degree it hasn't changed.

[Thor4140]

Of course they could pay it back. They're always making money and get to play by different rules from the average person. They screw up, they get bailed out and their credit is intact, the person who lost their home doesn't get the same break. They're destroyed. On top of it, the banks don't try to make the situation any better by refinancing the people that are underwater. They let them rot! My GF and her mother (in order to the right thing of their "underwater" home) have two families living in their property and they have to live in a finished basement apartment. I told them to walk away, but they won't.

I'm not making excuses for the people who bought property who shouldn't have been buying. It was dumb. Owning a house is an investment and the prices on real estate were overinflated as it was, but the banks and Wall Street have their own penalties from the rest of us and to most degree it hasn't changed.

Wasn't it funny how the media made people like your girlfriend and mother sound like complete losers if they walked away but then the banks got bailed out and this was okay? Sure enuf these same jackasses who are blaming these certain people have nothing to say about the banks who got the biggest welfare checks since the oil companies and their subsidies. This would be the real huge money stolen from the tax payers but these assholes would rather focus on people like your girlfriend and mother cause they are to stupid to think for themselves. Pigeons that get pluck with talking points over and over again.

[flyingillini]

I'm so glad I don't live in the US anymore. Place is becoming a disaster.

[Inkwell77]

It's a great time to be an American. Opportunity everywhere.
Crazy value in many markets. It is not easy, but staying strong through the struggle is what life is about.

[PAULYPOKER]

^ This thread is not about personal interests,it is about "We the Peoples interests"...............

[itchypickle]

There are haves and have nots in this world. Get over it.

Haves and have nots and the did and did nots in life. If you plan well and save/invest over the years those left behind due to not doing the same have no right to criticize how or what you spend YOUR money on is my opinion.

[itchypickle]

I'm so glad I don't live in the US anymore. Place is becoming a disaster.

I hear its been raining rockets the last week or so....keep your head down Illini

[PAULYPOKER]

Haves and have nots and the did and did nots in life. If you plan well and save/invest over the years those left behind due to not doing the same have no right to criticize how or what you spend YOUR money on is my opinion.

Completely off topic as usual with your self centered remarks.....................

[itchypickle]

Completely off topic as usual with your self centered remarks.....................

Actually no it's tied directly into the thread. Sorry you can't follow along unless we pause and bullet everything to show you where it correlates.

Downsouth mentioned seeing the value in investing in lowered property values and that shows planning and forward looking....so in the future he will have a return on that move and not be stuck behind like those who only spend in the moment and not defer gratification.

You are so wound up that someone puts money into property and then rents/leases to others in hopes of a profit and demonize that. If nobody owns a property then it sits and rots and doesnt provide a shelter for the people who pay to live there....under your logic we should just all live rent free and mortgage free and not pay anyone because how dare them expect to make a living from the venture. This isn't a communal camp society pal...it's one thing to criticize slum lords (like White House pro Valerie Jarrett) but if I buy a street of duplexes and charge renters what the market will bear and make money in the process...it's how it is. This isn't a 1% evil forget everyone else situation. Some years it's good to own acreage and sell it to builders, some its existing homes, and some it is rental property or commercial.

[rkelly110]

Exactly, it's time to shut up and listen for once. Just maybe something might be learned.

[PAULYPOKER]

Actually no it's tied directly into the thread. Sorry you can't follow along unless we pause and bullet everything to show you where it correlates.

Downsouth mentioned seeing the value in investing in lowered property values and that shows planning and forward looking....so in the future he will have a return on that move and not be stuck behind like those who only spend in the moment and not defer gratification.

You are so wound up that someone puts money into property and then rents/leases to others in hopes of a profit and demonize that. If nobody owns a property then it sits and rots and doesnt provide a shelter for the people who pay to live there....under your logic we should just all live rent free and mortgage free and not pay anyone because how dare them expect to make a living from the venture. This isn't a communal camp society pal...it's one thing to criticize slum lords (like White House pro Valerie Jarrett) but if I buy a street of duplexes and charge renters what the market will bear and make money in the process...it's how it is. This isn't a 1% evil forget everyone else situation. Some years it's good to own acreage and sell it to builders, some its existing homes, and some it is rental property or commercial.

Of course it is on topic to people like yourself who only know how to use their YIN side of the brain....................

Carry on though you are allowed to say as you wish, for now anyhow...........

Exactly, it's time to shut up and listen for once. Just maybe something might be learned.

As for you RK,seems to me you are nothing but a cheer leader/follower which will make it impossible for you to understand the underlying message.............

You have been in my threads the most but yet you have absorbed nothing................

[TexansFan]

At least we finally agree that your daddy helped you more than mine ever did. Guess you will have to drop the tired bullshit act. If you ever met my dad, he used to shake his head when he gave me a $5 bill for McDonald's back when I was 12. To imagine this man handing me boat loads of cash as you have painted that picture, is downright hilarious to me. If you met him, you'd see the irony.

My Dad is an interesting specimen. I have seen his investment portfolio, he is better off than 99.9% of this forum and back when I was into the market, I helped him diversify a small percentage of it. But despite all that money, he'll never spend it. He drives around a beat up bronco when he should be driving a lambo around. Just an interesting guy all around. He'd never give me cash like you've described. Ever.

He probably give you some if you weren't such a loser. It sounds like your father knows he screwed up and should have shot you in a washrag.

[Thor4140]

O


As for you RK,seems to me you are nothing but a cheer leader/follower which will make it impossible for you to understand the underlying message.............

You have been in my threads the most but yet you have absorbed nothing................

[PAULYPOKER]

By:

Diana Olick

CNBC Real Estate Reporter

Short Sales: Necessary Compromise or Scamming the System?

I spent much of this week in Atlanta, which is currently one of the worst housing markets in the nation. Atlanta home prices are down 17 percent annually, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Index, thanks to a glut of distressed properties.Foreclosures are plentiful in Atlanta, and as in other highly distressed markets, investors are swooping in, some buying in bulk, to take advantage of the hot rental market. Another new trend helping to alleviate all the distress is short sales.Short sales (selling the home for less than the value of the loan) are rising across the nation, and while they have yet to overtake foreclosure numbers in Atlanta, they are in fact up 120 percent from a year ago, according to RealtyTrac.Knowing all this, I searched for a short sale specialist, and found Ben Hirsh, of Hirsh Real Estate Specialists. He does much of his work in foreclosure sales and has a contract with Fannie Mae, but lately short sales have been a growing part of his business.RELATED LINKS

• Saving Your House From Foreclosure
• Is it Time to Lock Your Mortgage Rate?
• World's Hottest Real Estate Markets

“The short sale market is overtaking the REO (bank-owned) market,” says Hirsh, who still expects to sell at least 300 foreclosed properties this year. He notes a greater willingness among real estate agents, thanks to a greater commitment by banks to expedite the once-lengthy process. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac just last month announced new rules requiring them to answer short-sale requests within thirty days. Hirsh is skeptical that that will happen:“The banks can make all the rules they want, but the banks are too large to be that nimble. And you can’t really blame them. They have millions of assets all around the country. You expect them to turn around in 30 days and give an answer on whether they are going to forgive the money you owe them? I wish that would happen in 30 days, but that’s my dream world.”Hirsh did say, however, that getting approved for a short sale, while time-consuming, does not require much hardship, if any. That struck me as strange, since short sales are supposed to be a foreclosure alternative. The nation’s five largest banks get credit for doing short sales as foreclosure alternatives in the $25 billion mortgage servicing settlement they recently signed.

“We do a lot of short sales where there truly is not a financial distress, but there may be a willingness on the part of the seller to walk away from that home,” Hirsh said.Twelve million borrowers nationwide currently owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth, according to John Burns Real Estate Consulting, with just about half of those borrowers still current on their payments. Negative equity puts borrowers at greater risk of walking away from their homes, according to several government studies. Short sales would therefore save the banks money by averting foreclosures by walkaways.But is that the real purpose of a short sale? Some say the banks are to blame for the housing crash and mass home-price depreciation, and therefore they should pay for all of our losses. Others blame borrowers for playing loose with credit and buying far more than they could afford, using their homes as ATMs and turning a blind eye to the fact that home prices can go down as well as up. Are short sales the compromise? The bank loses money and the owner loses the home without the credit hit? Everybody loses?I was about to buy that compromise, until Hirsh told me about some of his clients. They are short-selling their homes and turning right back around and buying new homes — and here’s the clincher: they’re getting mortgages. One is even building a new home!These borrowers have the wherewithal to make their monthly payments on their underwater homes but choose not to, because they know they won’t make their equity back any time soon. They also see that they can now buy more home for less money, given how low home prices have fallen. They can get in at the bottom, rather than pay what amounts to rent on their current homes. In other words, they’re in a position to make more money by walking away from their debt and letting their lender eat the loss.I’m no bank apologist, but is that fair? You tell me.

[PAULYPOKER]

If you are fukking over a bank, this is a great weapon.............

[PAULYPOKER]

US foreclosures rising once more



A new research suggests that foreclosures in the U.S. are rising again, with experts expecting the situation to continue.

U.S. foreclosures rose 2% in May and bank repossessions jumped 11%, according to RealtyTrac, a real-estate data firm.

The increase comes after five straight months of declines, the research said.

“The foreclosure problem was not resolved; it was simply delayed,” Daren Blomquist, vice president at RealtyTrac said, as reported by MarketWatch.

Blomquist expects the situation to continue until the banks catch up with the backlog of delayed foreclosures.

In May, one in 885 homes in the U.S. had a foreclosure filing, according to RealtyTrac.

The 5 states with the highest foreclosure rates are: Florida: 1 in 302, Nevada: 1 in 305, Ohio: 1 in 584, Maryland: 1 in 587, and South Carolina: 1 in 600.

The 2008 financial crisis, followed by a recession, was a serious blow to the U.S. economy.

Experts believe that misguided monetary and housing policies as well as financial deregulation and private-sector greed were the main causes of the crisis.

The cheap money policy of the Federal Reserve fueled risky mortgages across the country, economists say.

Following the 2001 recession, Fed chairman Alan Greenspan slashed the federal funds rate from 6.25 to 1.75 percent. It was reduced further in 2002 and 2003, reaching a record low of 1 percent in mid-2003—where it stayed for a year. This created, as experts believe, excessive liquidity and generated a huge demand bubble, which led to the 2008 crisis.

ARA/ARA

[ChalkyDog]

A problem that has nothing Partisan about it.

Turned into a 100% partisan issue by mental midgets on both sides.

If you are a die hard republican - please remove yourself from this earth. The opposite... ditto.

Some of the posts in this thread prove money cant buy class or brains.

[PAULYPOKER]

Report: US homeowners re-defaulting at alarming rate!



Nearly half of the US homeowners, who had their loans modified under a government aid program, are now defaulting again on their mortgages at an alarming rate, according to a report on Wednesday by a watchdog organization.

The report by the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (SIGTARP), said that around 865,100 homeowners have avoided foreclosure with the help of The Home Affordable Modification Program, also known as HAMP, through loan modifications.

However, more than 306,000 other homeowners had redefaulted on their modified mortgages as of April, the report added.

HAMP was set up to help struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure by working with their lenders to lower monthly mortgage payments. The Obama administration launched HAMP in 2009 to aid struggling homeowners impacted by the housing crisis.

“This is a program where there's not enough people being helped," Christy Romero, special inspector general for SIGTARP, told Reuters.

"Exactly why people are falling out of HAMP isn't well understood by Treasury," said Romero. "If redefaults are happening at an alarming rate, then you've got to stop that and change the program somehow where you stop the trend."

The rescue plan was hoped to offer a lifeline for as many as four million home-owners. But the new report by SIGTARP has raised serious concerns about the program’s effectiveness.

The US Treasury has set aside $38.5 billion of its TARP funds to pay for the program, but it has only spent $8.6 billion, about 22 percent, so far.

US foreclosures are a sensitive issue for Americans, and have already triggered protests in the country.

[teaserpleaser]

This may possibly be the funniest thread I've read this year on sbr some epic shit talking in this mofo

[Inkwell77]

US dollar hitting a decent bump up in the market, but I think it will fall within the next 3-4 years.

Where is the value?

[PAULYPOKER]

BkofAma facing $864 million fine over mortgage fraud


The bank was found liable for fraud over defective mortgages sold by its Countrywide unit.



BkofAma has been urged by the US government to pay $863.6 million in damages after it was found liable for fraud over defective mortgages sold by its Countrywide unit.


The US government has also asked for penalties against Rebeca Mairone, a former midlevel executive at the bank’s Countrywide unit District Court in Manhattan, who was also found liable by a federal jury.

Both BkofAma and Mairone were found liable for defrauding government-controlled mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac through selling substandard loans purchased from Countrywide in 2007 and 2008.

According to the government, the penalties were necessary to punish the bank and Mairone "and to send a clear and unambiguous message that mortgage fraud for profit will not be tolerated."

The amount of penalties is based on the gross loss Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac incurred on the loans, the government said.

The case is related to a mortgage lending process at Countrywide, bought by BkofAma in July 2008, which is known as the “High Speed Swim Lane,” or HSSL or Hustle.

According to the government, the Countrywide’s program rewarded employees for the quantity rather than the quality of loans given and eliminated checkpoints used to ensure that loans were sound.

Also in August, the US government filed two lawsuits against the bank stating that it committed a fraud involving $850 million of residential mortgage-backed securities.

“Unprecedented portion of the mortgage loans backing the security had been originated through mortgage brokers unaffiliated with the Bank of America Entities,” read the lawsuits.

The bank deliberately kept investors unaware of the risks connected to the securities.

AT/HJ

[C-Gold]

"urged" by government to pay????

WTF does that even mean? Obama says pay or else?

[PAULYPOKER]

Forcing.........