Let The Debate Begin: EVOLUTION VS CREATIONISM

[Footy4Jesus]

Yes Paul never wavered and either did most of the apostles and many christians however keep in mind that Hitler never wavered either and tens of thousands probably hundreds of thousands died with his name on their lips. In fact, at the Nuremberg trials very few even exhibited any remorse with the glaring exception of A Speer, which probably saved his life. So not swaying from a cause only shows blind allegiance nothing more, the terrorists do the same. Not sure this is a positive.

Also if you are well versed in the two testaments you must know that they teach contradictions, they teach especially in the old testament things that are considered today to be gross injustice and even murder, how can this be. How do you reconcile things in your holiest book that recommends actions that you know and everybody knows are criminal in nature? You would think that an all knowing god would not allow such inconsistencies to be written in a book that is supposedly inspired by him. Makes no sense. The bible is filled with crazy talk and ideas that are so foreign to civilized man that they are simply ignored by most christians. Yet many of those same Christians especially fundamentalists tell us that it is the inspired word of god and cannot be wrong and every single word means what it says literally. Again, makes no sense. It is a religion based on fallacy and if you don't see that you are diluted. I certainly respect your opinion and will fight for your rights but at least attempt to be honest.

Not most of the apostles never wavered, none of them did.

You cant compare evil as the same thing with good. Sure, Hitler and his henchmen did not waver in their ideologies of mass human extermination but even you said it, it was their blind allegiance. to an evil force under Satan. Godless people don't have any remorse for their actions. They have become sickened by evil and their hearts hardened by it to such a point that they have ultimately given their life for the evil cause. Killing of millions of Jews and other classes no longer brings guilt shame and despair on their souls, but rather seeing the destruction of human lives brings a smile to their face. If people cant come to believe evil actually exists when such a tragedy occurred in our recent history, then I don't know what will.

I don't claim to be a bible scholar other than that I read from it everyday. I can try to answer some questions you may have, but I will admittedly say I wont be able to answer them all or to the fullest extent of your satisfaction. If you really desire to know more, you must put in the effort to study yourself. Just as you wouldn't take the opinion of one man as gospel, you should seek out others to get a better understanding. I am just one man and I'm not perfect, but I am trying the best I can to share with you what I know.

Its a common argument that the Old Testament God contradicts so many things with morality and the New Testament. People often wonder, why would god let such things as murder happen? And also to be done in his name? Surely, the Jewish people did slaughter people unjustly throughout the Old Testament. But you will find that God also punished the Jewish people accordingly. Just because things are don in the name of God does not mean that God supports it. The Old Testament is very much a historical record of the Jewish people. And there are many things in it that cast the Jews in a negative light. Also many of the biblical figures had their own issues. David was an adulterer and a murderer, Elijah tried to commit suicide, Rahab was a hooker, Jacob was a compulsive liar, Noah was a drunk, Lot had sex with his daughters and offered others to join in, Abraham pimped out his wife... and so many other things.

My question is rather than this proving that the Old testament is a joke, doesn't the inclusion of these things prove that it is being honest? Honest that even men of god are susceptible to evil, that we all are sinners? If the Bible did not include these things that happened in history, it would be like any other religious book that tries to cast their religious figures in a positive light as if they are perfect and leave out anything that would make them appear as we all really are. Human. Born in a world of sin. No other religious text comes close to this sort of historical accuracy.

God is a merciful God, but he also a God of wrath. He has to be. Sure, there were a lot of people that were killed in the name of God and God really did have his hand in it. But if you want to know the reason why, there always is. When god destroyed places like Sodom and Gomorrah it was not without their fair share of warnings first of things to come. He always gives people a chance to turn back to him. But there comes a point where he is going to act. He is not going to let evil continue, because that would be evil and evil is not God. Many pagan civilizations practiced child sacrifice, gang rapes, murder in the streets, complete chaos. For God to destroy these kind of people and wipe them out of existence is no evil, it is being just.

Of course people back then did not have as good of an understanding of science. They didnt know that lighting was just a buildup of static released between clouds and the ground, or what caused storms, floods, tornadoes, or other acts of God like we know today. Because today we have a better understanding of these forces and how they work and happen make them no less a part of Gods plan or under divine control.

Why do some of these things happen? Why do people have to die and suffer and have agonizing pain and sickness and hurt? We live in a fallen world, my brother, wrecked by sin from our disobedience to God and continued to be haunted by it as long as we are here sharing this earth with the evil creature. It wont last. One day, if you no longer decide to be disobedient to God, there will no longer be pain and suffering or any of the other horrible things you see happen here on earth. Order will once again be restored and we will no longer have to endure a life tempted by evil. Because only those who choose to believe and follow God can enter heaven to make this possible, those who do not believe in Him will spend eternity separated from His glory.

[SharkAA]

I'm really curious about the other, more important questions. Here goes:

1.) How can some Christians be racists, although Christianity refuses and condemns racism?
2.) Why is the majority of Christians against abortion, although it's not mentioned ONCE in the Bible and knowing, that science says it's not a murder?
3.) Why do some Christians commit adultery, although it's condemned in the Bible?

[dante1]

Yes, interesting but it is the same protestant explanation that I have heard for decades and has been around for over a century.

You do realize that catholics and other christians don't buy simply the "believing in him" concept. They say believing without works is empty. You think the works come through the believing. Different dogma and many very different beliefs even in the protestant faith.And the people back then argument doesn't really hold water because there goes the infallibility of the bible. Either it is or it isn't can't have it both ways.

I must get an MRI, this conversation can go on forever but I have had it too many times. Best of luck to you and keep fighting the good fight my friend.

[dante1]

I'm really curious about the other, more important questions. Here goes:

1.) How can some Christians be racists, although Christianity refuses and condemns racism?
2.) Why is the majority of Christians against abortion, although it's not mentioned ONCE in the Bible and knowing, that science says it's not a murder?
3.) Why do some Christians commit adultery, although it's condemned in the Bible?

Exactly, and many of those so called Christians are very racist, the two rifles for example. I have discovered in my life that whenever you hear any person talking incessantly about religion and god check your wallet. No not all but I have met so many christians that ended up being much worse in character than people who don't wear their religion on their sleeve. Back in the 80s and 90's you couldn't go a month without some tv evangelist doing something extraordinarily wicked.

[Bruce Norris]

I'm really curious about the other, more important questions. Here goes:

1.) How can some Christians be racists, although Christianity refuses and condemns racism?
2.) Why is the majority of Christians against abortion, although it's not mentioned ONCE in the Bible and knowing, that science says it's not a murder?
3.) Why do some Christians commit adultery, although it's condemned in the Bible?

To answer the first and the third... they are sinners. We all are. Being a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect, not by a long shot.

The second question, I can only speak for myself. It's murder. Science says it's not murder how exactly? If you believe a fetus is a human life, that is entitled to the same rights you and I have, I don't see any other way to look at it than it being murder.

[Footy4Jesus]

I'm really curious about the other, more important questions. Here goes:

1.) How can some Christians be racists, although Christianity refuses and condemns racism?
2.) Why is the majority of Christians against abortion, although it's not mentioned ONCE in the Bible and knowing, that science says it's not a murder?
3.) Why do some Christians commit adultery, although it's condemned in the Bible?

1. Because Christians are no less a sinner than those who are not Christian. If a Christian struggles with racism, its probably because they were racist before. This goes for many other things such as premarital sex, porn addiction, getting drunk every weekend, etc. All of it is sin and looked at the same way by God. Just because you now believe in Him doesn't make the temptation go away completely because you are still stuck here in a fallen world, but it does make it easier as long as you are willing to let go of all the things that hold you down and completely follow him. If a Christian struggles with racism but is truly dedicated to serving God, God will help take those racist feelings away from you. Becoming a great Christian doesnt happen overnight it is a lifelong journey doing what is right through this life of struggle. We may continue to fail and fall, but as a Christian you get back up again and make every effort you can to not fall back to wickedness and commit the same mistakes again.

2. The majority of Christians are against abortion because it is evil and wrong. Period. Just because the medical practice of abortion was not yet invented and couldnt be written in doesnt make it ok. Abortion is killing an innocent human life. It is an act out of selfishness. Although there is no specific scripture that states Thou shall not stick a needle thru the womans uterus, suck out the brain matter, then rip the unborn child limb from limb, it doesnt have to for a Christian to already know this would be evil. Although it is not stated in the bible in this specific way, there are plenty of scriptures that we can look to to see that abortion is a sin. These are only a few:

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;Before you were born I sanctified you;I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,The fruit of the womb is a reward.

Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder.

Psalm 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts;You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;[a]
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

Exodus 21:22-25 If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Job 31:15 Did not He who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same One fashion us in the womb?

1 Cor 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.



3.) Because we are still sinners and are tempted by the devil everyday. Even Jesus was tempted by satan while he was here on earth. This is also similar to your first question, and the answer is the same.

[lucullus]

I'm really curious about the other, more important questions. Here goes:

1.) How can some Christians be racists, although Christianity refuses and condemns racism?
2.) Why is the majority of Christians against abortion, although it's not mentioned ONCE in the Bible and knowing, that science says it's not a murder?
3.) Why do some Christians commit adultery, although it's condemned in the Bible?

Christianity is built on racism. Every single page this bible I have here remind's me that jew's are a superior people and are allowed to do anything they want to non-jews.

They did what ever they wanted in the fairy tales, to put it in your mind that they can do what ever they want now. Bible bullshit

[Footy4Jesus]

Christianity is built on racism. Every single page this bible I have here remind's me that jew's are a superior people and are allowed to do anything they want to non-jews.

They did what ever they wanted in the fairy tales, to put it in your mind that they can do what ever they want now. Bible bullshit

So you want to bring down Christianity for parts of it having a racist history because it fits your anti-religious agenda, but then you yourself are as racist as they come. How convenient for you.

Jews are also superior to no one and it isnt claimed like that in Old Testament. This is just some anti-Semitic bullcrap spoonfed to you by your peers on Neo-Nazi summer camps.

When the OT speaks of Jews being the chosen people by God, it doesn't mean that God loves them more than other people. God just chose the Jewish people to deliver His message to the world because they were the only ones willing to listen at that time in a world ruled by pagans(satan).

[SharkAA]

To answer the first and the third... they are sinners. We all are. Being a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect, not by a long shot.

The second question, I can only speak for myself. It's murder. Science says it's not murder how exactly? If you believe a fetus is a human life, that is entitled to the same rights you and I have, I don't see any other way to look at it than it being murder.

Science clearly states, that a baby can breathe independently after he/she exits a vagina. Before that, there's no possible way, that he/she can breathe independently without any help. Also, I see a theoretical ban of abortion a threat to the women's integrity. Imo, the right way, it's to increase the awareness and responsibility of having safe sex and unwanted pregnancy.

[Footy4Jesus]

Science clearly states, that a baby can breathe independently after he/she exits a vagina. Before that, there's no possible way, that he/she can breathe independently without any help. Also, I see a theoretical ban of abortion a threat to the women's integrity. Imo, the right way, it's to increase the awareness and responsibility of having safe sex and unwanted pregnancy.

Your exactly right that they cant breathe without the help of the mother inside the womb, but outside an infant cant live either without a mothers care.

Abortion is a selfish act that people dont want to live up to the responsibility for their own actions.

The its my body I can do what I want with it argument falls flat. It may be your body, but that life inside you is not. Its a separate living being.

The same people who are pro-choice would also look down upon a pregnant woman who consumes lots of alcohol or does drugs as doing great harm to her unborn baby. If its her body, then why is this so different?

You cant cherry-pick.

[Footy4Jesus]

Exactly, and many of those so called Christians are very racist, the two rifles for example. I have discovered in my life that whenever you hear any person talking incessantly about religion and god check your wallet. No not all but I have met so many christians that ended up being much worse in character than people who don't wear their religion on their sleeve. Back in the 80s and 90's you couldn't go a month without some tv evangelist doing something extraordinarily wicked.

Words of Jesus:

Matthew 7: 21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

[lucullus]

So you want to bring down Christianity for parts of it having a racist history because it fits your anti-religious agenda, but then you yourself are as racist as they come. How convenient for you.

Jews are also superior to no one and it isnt claimed like that in Old Testament. This is just some anti-Semitic bullcrap spoonfed to you by your peers on Neo-Nazi summer camps.

When the OT speaks of Jews being the chosen people by God, it doesn't mean that God loves them more than other people. God just chose the Jewish people to deliver His message to the world because they were the only ones willing to listen at that time in a world ruled by pagans(satan).

It isn't part's, there you go making up thing's again, really reflect's your belief's - that it is ok to lie constantly. It is the whole bible, constantly repeating the fact that jew's are the chosen one's, have conquered all non jew's in past history (fairy tales), and can do any thing they please to non jews. This is seen all through out the bible.

You slander me by calling me a racist because you are jewish and do not like your people being exposed for what they have done. God didn't choose the jewish people, they choose themselves by creating the insidious program to gain supremacy over the pagans. Plain and simple.

[Footy4Jesus]

It isn't part's, there you go making up thing's again, really reflect's your belief's - that it is ok to lie constantly. It is the whole bible, constantly repeating the fact that jew's are the chosen one's, have conquered all non jew's in past history (fairy tales), and can do any thing they please to non jews. This is seen all through out the bible.

You slander me by calling me a racist because you are jewish and do not like your people being exposed for what they have done. God didn't choose the jewish people, they choose themselves by creating the insidious program to gain supremacy over the pagans. Plain and simple.

No, I don't slander you but I will continue to call you out for being full of evil which is so evident by how corrupt your mind is. I know exactly how Satan works, he is the master of deception, the master of lies. All that is evil. And he loves to use tactics such as yours turning the truth upside down lying about it and calling the truth a lie in the process. You don't fool me with your deception for one second.

For the record, I am not a Jew. And you are a fool.

Jesus love is for everyone, Jew or Gentile. So get over it, we are all made equal in the eyes of God.

If God didnt choose the Jews for his message to the world, then tell me why do non-Jews even bother with them? Why do Jews get under the skin of people like you so much that it makes your blood boil? Why are they made the scapegoat in every society for everything that goes wrong? Why kill millions and millions of them for their faith and nothing else?

Perhaps they are known for their intelligence, wealth, and power because they worship the almighty God and have been blessed and rewarded for it. Not worshipping a satanic force like yourself that leads to human destruction. Go ahead and get angry at Jews. Yeeaaahh, they're the problem in this world all right. No its people spewing evil and hatred any chance they can get, trying to point the finger at God for all of their problems when they should really look at themselves in the mirror.

[lucullus]

Yes keep pretending to ignore the fact's jew boy

Keep blabbering your mouth and throw in a few lies

Go on now you kunt

[Footy4Jesus]

Yes keep pretending to ignore the fact's jew boy

Keep blabbering your mouth and throw in a few lies

Go on now you kunt

What up bro, you mad?

[SharkAA]

Your exactly right that they cant breathe without the help of the mother inside the womb, but outside an infant cant live either without a mothers care.

Abortion is a selfish act that people dont want to live up to the responsibility for their own actions.

The its my body I can do what I want with it argument falls flat. It may be your body, but that life inside you is not. Its a separate living being.

The same people who are pro-choice would also look down upon a pregnant woman who consumes lots of alcohol or does drugs as doing great harm to her unborn baby. If its her body, then why is this so different?

You cant cherry-pick.

Like I said, we wouldn't be talking about abortion so much if awareness would be increased as stated previously. Signs of life inside still depend on a woman, so it's not up to a 'life' inside to decide. If a woman wants a baby, but consumes alcohol or any other substance, that is harmful, then that's her (dreadful) choice, but the ol' saying 'karma is a bytch' ignites pretty fast.

[Seaweed]

Like I said, we wouldn't be talking about abortion so much if awareness would be increased as stated previously. Signs of life inside still depend on a woman, so it's not up to a 'life' inside to decide. If a woman wants a baby, but consumes alcohol or any other substance, that is harmful, then that's her (dreadful) choice, but the ol' saying 'karma is a bytch' ignites pretty fast.

Read every biology textbook in High School. Human life begins at the moment of conception. This is an undeniable scientific fact. All humans have a right to life. When a baby is born, it depends on its mother to care for it just like when it is in the womb, but if the mother decided to kill the baby once born, she would be imprisoned. What is the difference between the two? Location? Every human has a right to develop and to live. Abortion denies that human life that ability.

[pronk]

Yes keep pretending to ignore the fact's jew boy

Keep blabbering your mouth and throw in a few lies

Go on now you kunt

My condolences Funguslus.
Your one way ticket to Hell was approved by your master Lucifer.

[Footy4Jesus]

Like I said, we wouldn't be talking about abortion so much if awareness would be increased as stated previously. Signs of life inside still depend on a woman, so it's not up to a 'life' inside to decide. If a woman wants a baby, but consumes alcohol or any other substance, that is harmful, then that's her (dreadful) choice, but the ol' saying 'karma is a bytch' ignites pretty fast.

Its not awareness that is the answer. Plenty of people are so-called aware yet these things continue. Condoms break, pills get counteracted with other medications and don't work, mistakes happen. We are not God and as much as we try to control these things ourselves thinking we can do it alone we will continue to have problems.

Sex was designed for marriage by God for enjoyment between man and wife and for procreation. Our carnal, sinful desires try to tell us otherwise and in a world saturated with sinful sexuality it can be hard to see through all of this darkness and see the light.

You can go all about it for yourself through this life and continue to feed the desires of the flesh, but you will never be satisfied. God made rules. He made them for us to follow. We may not like it and want to have sex with whomever we please whenever and however, but it does not come without consequence.

You say its not up for the life inside to decide, but it cant even if he/she wanted to. It is also not up to the woman to decide, because not only is that life not her own but her own life isn't either. Life is not a human possession. Our lives belong to God. To destroy life that He has created is sin and its exactly what the devil wants.

[SharkAA]

Read every biology textbook in High School. Human life begins at the moment of conception. This is an undeniable scientific fact. All humans have a right to life. When a baby is born, it depends on its mother to care for it just like when it is in the womb, but if the mother decided to kill the baby once born, she would be imprisoned. What is the difference between the two? Location? Every human has a right to develop and to live. Abortion denies that human life that ability.

Human life starts, when a baby exits a vagina. Not a minute before, not a minute after. At that point, he/she is able to breathe independently and that is considered human life. Just like death is announced, when a human is not able to breathe further or is unable to sustain any other crucial life functions by his own.

[SharkAA]

Its not awareness that is the answer. Plenty of people are so-called aware yet these things continue. Condoms break, pills get counteracted with other medications and don't work, mistakes happen. We are not God and as much as we try to control these things ourselves thinking we can do it alone we will continue to have problems.

Sex was designed for marriage by God for enjoyment between man and wife and for procreation. Our carnal, sinful desires try to tell us otherwise and in a world saturated with sinful sexuality it can be hard to see through all of this darkness and see the light.

You can go all about it for yourself through this life and continue to feed the desires of the flesh, but you will never be satisfied. God made rules. He made them for us to follow. We may not like it and want to have sex with whomever we please whenever and however, but it does not come without consequence.

You say its not up for the life inside to decide, but it cant even if he/she wanted to. It is also not up to the woman to decide, because not only is that life not her own but her own life isn't either. Life is not a human possession. Our lives belong to God. To destroy life that He has created is sin and its exactly what the devil wants.

Maslow clearly defines hierarchy of the needs. And sex falls into a Love/Belonging section. I'm pretty sure that explains it all. You know what happens for example to those (not all of them), who are committed to celibacy? They download porn in Vatican, they secretly visit hookers and last but not least-there are cases of paedophiles...

My life doesn't belong to God and actually you said it all-life is definitely a human possesion.

[Footy4Jesus]

Human life starts, when a baby exits a vagina. Not a minute before, not a minute after. At that point, he/she is able to breathe independently and that is considered human life. Just like death is announced, when a human is not able to breathe further or is unable to sustain any other crucial life functions.

How sad it is that you would reduce even your own existence to what man-made criteria has decided upon what the definition of life is and what it is worth. Abortion doesn't just hurt the baby. You wont believe how many support groups are out there for mothers who aborted their child. Many are wrecked by shame and guilt for the rest of their lives from it. My mother is one of them. She has only found peace through Christ who gives forgiveness to all that ask. That doesn't mean she don't regret it to this day. And her act of selfishness has also hurt me. When I found out that she had an abortion, it was very hard for me to forgive her or look at her the same way for a long time. To only think I was one fetus away from being that child and I could have grown up through life having a brother or sister. Someday I will meet them in heaven.

Women were designed by God to nurture and bring up their children to live for God, not throw them away in a medical waste bin because they didn't want to be a responsible adult and parent.

Children are always a blessing from God. The devil tries to tell you otherwise.

[Footy4Jesus]

My life doesn't belong to God

Whether you like it or not, it does.

[KingJD31]

Primordial soup theory, Google it. That's what these fuks believed in

[SharkAA]

How sad it is that you would reduce even your own existence to what man-made criteria has decided upon what the definition of life is and what it is worth. Abortion doesn't just hurt the baby. You wont believe how many support groups are out there for mothers who aborted their child. Many are wrecked by shame and guilt for the rest of their lives from it. My mother is one of them. She has only found peace through Christ who gives forgiveness to all that ask. That doesn't mean she don't regret it to this day. And her act of selfishness has also hurt me. When I found out that she had an abortion, it was very hard for me to forgive her or look at her the same way for a long time. To only think I was one fetus away from being that child and I could have grown up through life having a brother or sister. Someday I will meet them in heaven.

Women were designed by God to nurture and bring up their children to live for God, not throw them away in a medical waste bin because they didn't want to be a responsible adult and parent.

Children are always a blessing from God. The devil tries to tell you otherwise.

We are obviously getting nowhere with this debate. I'm familiar with women, who had an abortion and how much damage it caused, but the point was it's every woman's decision. Look, have your own opinion and I'll have mine, because we obviously firmly stand behind them with totally different arguments.

[KingJD31]

Wouldn't doubt most of these fuks in this thread came from fukin monkeys

[Footy4Jesus]

Maslow clearly defines hierarchy of the needs. And sex falls into a Love/Belonging section. I'm pretty sure that explains it all. You know what happens for example to those (not all of them), who are committed to celibacy? They download porn in Vatican, they secretly visit hookers and last but not least-there are cases of paedophiles...

My life doesn't belong to God and actually you said it all-life is definitely a human possesion.

It does not explain it all. We are designed in the image of God, but we also are not God. God gave us human needs like love and belonging, but sex is not a requirement to fill those needs. It is an impulse to procreate, I will grant you that, but not without the constraints of His law.

Ill ask you this: If we are not required to exhibit some self-control with our sexuality, then why must we exhibit self-control in other areas of life? Why is it not ok for me to go have sex with someone in the city park surrounded by children so they all can see? Why cant I walk around naked flashing myself to passersby?

Theres a reason why its called the walk of shame when you leave a persons house you just had sex with that you aren't married to. Its because there is guilt involved because you know deep down that it is wrong. Married couples don't have such feelings, and thats because they aren't doing anything wrong in the eyes of God.

The attack on catholic priests for their sexual sin is just another distraction by satan to steer people away from God. You said not all priests are like that, but really it is MOST of them that aren't like that. A small fraction of the priesthood has indeed fell into the enemies hands because priests are people. They are not infallible. And the ones that have fallen do not speak for the whole Catholic Church.

I am not catholic, so I have my own beliefs on this separate from the Catholic Church and I'm not trying to protect them just because my own beliefs would be involved.

My belief on celibacy is that it should be a choice that a believer makes. Paul was celibate and he writes in his letter to the church about the issue. He was so in love with God that he was entirely dedicated to his service. Having a wife would have got in the way of his mission for the church. He writes that it is good for a believer to remain unwed, but if he feels that desire within him to procreate, then there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is done under the covenant of marriage.

Being celibate or not doesn't make you any more or less holy, but being celibate would certainly give a believer more time for God and not his wife. I feel that the catholic church is wrong in enforcing celibacy among clergy, and many who would otherwise be great servants of God are kept from the priesthood because they are married. Celibacy was not always enforced within the Catholic Church either. Priests and Popes in the early church had wives and children of their own. Look it up, its true.

[Footy4Jesus]

We are obviously getting nowhere with this debate. I'm familiar with women, who had an abortion and how much damage it caused, but the point was it's every woman's decision. Look, have your own opinion and I'll have mine, because we obviously firmly stand behind them with totally different arguments.

Ill agree with you that we both have different opinions. However I don't fall into the thinking that there is no such thing as a wrong way or a right way. When you are talking about sin, good and evil, there is no grey area in-between.

Man says, 'I want to live my way!'. God says 'No'. Devil says, ' Perhaps we can make a compromise... '.

[SharkAA]

Ill ask you this: If we are not required to exhibit some self-control with our sexuality, then why must we exhibit self-control in other areas of life? Why is it not ok for me to go have sex with someone in the city park surrounded by children so they all can see? Why cant I walk around naked flashing myself to passersby?

Theres a reason why its called the walk of shame when you leave a persons house you just had sex with that you aren't married to. Its because there is guilt involved because you know deep down that it is wrong. Married couples don't have such feelings, and thats because they aren't doing anything wrong in the eyes of God.

There are limits and there is a clear distinction between private and public. That's why, people don't bang each other in front of the kids.
As I've said earlier, we are getting nowhere with this. It's better to end this discussion.

[lucullus]

Ill agree with you that we both have different opinions. However I don't fall into the thinking that there is no such thing as a wrong way or a right way. When you are talking about sin, good and evil, there is no grey area in-between.

Man says, 'I want to live my way!'. God says 'No'. Devil says, ' Perhaps we can make a compromise... '.

[Seaweed]

Human life starts, when a baby exits a vagina. Not a minute before, not a minute after. At that point, he/she is able to breathe independently and that is considered human life. Just like death is announced, when a human is not able to breathe further or is unable to sustain any other crucial life functions by his own.

Please provide me scientific evidence of this claim. Thank you.What planet is it on then? I would suspect Earth, like the rest of us. Why should we have the right to kill someone just because of where they live?


1. How can something that’s growing not be alive?
2. Biology says that the fetus is alive, and abortion makes it dead, isn’t
that killing?
3. What is it? A dog? A fish? A carrot?
4. If a being has human parents, isn’t it human?

An unborn child is alive, human, and a member of our species who is developing into a fully grown human being. Shouldn’t we treat them and all human beings equally under the law?

[SharkAA]

Please provide me scientific evidence of this claim. Thank you.


1. How can something that’s growing not be alive?
2. Biology says that the fetus is alive, and abortion makes it dead, isn’t
that killing?

Read the whole paragraph I wrote and there's an answer.

[Seaweed]

We are obviously getting nowhere with this debate. I'm familiar with women, who had an abortion and how much damage it caused, but the point was it's every woman's decision. Look, have your own opinion and I'll have mine, because we obviously firmly stand behind them with totally different arguments.

Should we cherish the helpless, or kill them? Isn't a toddler dependent on his/hermother too? Should we allow the killing of toddlers as well?

[Seaweed]

Read the whole paragraph I wrote and there's an answer.

Science and biology says otherwise.

[Seaweed]

We are obviously getting nowhere with this debate. I'm familiar with women, who had an abortion and how much damage it caused, but the point was it's every woman's decision. Look, have your own opinion and I'll have mine, because we obviously firmly stand behind them with totally different arguments.

A right to choose what? Women have a right to choose their college, spouse, and careers. But should anyone have the right to choose to kill a human being for virtually any reason? That is what it means to choose abortion