US Citizens: You ARE required to declare your Neteller account to the US gov.

**isetcap** · 06-12-06, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

At least according to a US based tax attorney who specializes in offshore companies and banking.

The exception is that if your balance at no time during the year reached $10,000, then you are not required to declare the account.

The form US citizens are required to fill out is form is TD F90-22.1 and it is due by June 30, 2006. The fine for failing to file is $500,000

.

Oh great, now we're all going to jail. Thanks, John.

**Illusion** · 06-12-06, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

The fine for failing to file is $500,000

.

Damn, that's a bit extreme.

**jumper** · 06-12-06, 05:55 PM

how available do you think this information is to the irs

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 05:59 PM

Oh its super-duper available, it one in the same. The US Treasury Dept.

**Mudcat** · 06-12-06, 06:07 PM

Surely, it can't be as black and white as this.

That fine seems too far out of proportion with reality. I have to think there are some ifs, ands or buts attached to that.

**jumper** · 06-12-06, 06:15 PM

i understand the irs and treasury dept are one in the same,but why would neteller report balances to the us treasury dept.i have been told by neteller that if an acct is subpoenad by the us govt then they will release info.my guess is one is ok if not alot of red flags are raised,but the $500000 risk must be decided individually

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 06:23 PM

i understand the irs and treasury dept are one in the same,but why would neteller report balances to the us treasury dept.i have been told by neteller that if an acct is subpoenad by the us govt then they will release info.

Neteller does not NOT report anything to the IRS. This info comes voluntarily from the taxpayer ONLY. So you can decide not to disclose it but the penalty is so severe why chance it?

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 06:31 PM

The U.S. gvmt won't do anything....no need to worry fellows. The U.S. gvmt is a joke when it comes to these things....no way they will find out.

**jumper** · 06-12-06, 06:36 PM

thanks for sharing this potential penalty and providing one more issue to consider when playing offshore.this is a difficult market to play;especially with daily reports of rogue market makers

**jumper** · 06-12-06, 06:39 PM

regarding buddy bears post:if you are suspected of hiding money and/or audited,they can look at your bank statements and ask about all those incoming and outgoing eft,s-then they may request info from neteller.the answer is somewhere in between the 2 extremes but john is right about the risks and it is good to know.so start preparing to join the other ex-pats in costa rica

**joe blow** · 06-12-06, 07:15 PM

Note to self...Keep neteller balance under 10k

End of problum

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 07:17 PM

I would ignore Buddy Bear. For some reason he is mad at the world.

It just makes no sense NOT to disclose a Neteller account. The govermant is just itching to slam an online gambler and that gives them the perfect excuse. Put dat apple in your mouth boy and squealllll for your uncle!!

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

I would ignore Buddy Bear. For some reason he is mad at the world.

It just makes no sense NOT to disclose a Neteller account. The govermant is just itching to slam an online gambler and that gives them the perfect excuse. Put dat apple in your mouth boy and squealllll for your uncle!!

I guess I should go live in exile in some third world country like you guys do so I can gamble...give me a break nobody is going to get busted. Stop scaring people on here and giving tax advice.... John you don't live in this country anymore you've forgotten that the U.S. gvmt is just talk when it comes to this issue. Online gaming is illegal yet millions do it....I repeat nothing is likely to happen.

**Terris** · 06-12-06, 08:17 PM

I have a vision...it will be fun to read BBs crap for hmm maybe 1 more week? After that week is over, he may get what raiders and AK received for talking too much shit :-P

**Ganchrow** · 06-12-06, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

I guess I should go live in exile in some third world country like you guys do so I can gamble...give me a break nobody is going to get busted. Stop scaring people on here and giving tax advice.... John you don't live in this country anymore you've forgotten that the U.S. gvmt is just talk when it comes to this issue. Online gaming is illegal yet millions do it....I repeat nothing is going to happen.

I'd amend that to "Nothing is likely to happen."

Certainly a player is probably not going to get caught. But the IRS is basically saying, "We know we're only going to catch a very small percentage of offenders, so we're going to make so the fine so severe in order to nevertheless encourage tax payers to report."

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Terris

I have a vision...it will be fun to read BBs crap for hmm maybe 1 more week? After that week is over, he may get what raiders and AK received for talking too much shit :-P

relax Ferret, I am not going anywhere....We are having a healthy and long overdue debate which you know nothing about. SBR knows I am a nice guy and all will be forgiven in the next day or two and in the end, I have been a loyal poster and fan of there's and have the utmost respect for the crew here.

I suspect you'll leave before me. Go get laid or something and learn to get out a little bit more than you do.

**LVHerbie** · 06-13-06, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by SBR_John

At least according to a US based tax attorney who specializes in offshore companies and banking.

The exception is that if your balance at no time during the year reached $10,000, then you are not required to declare the account.

The form US citizens are required to fill out is form is TD F90-22.1 and it is due by June 30, 2006. The fine for failing to file is $500,000

.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't is ALL accounts outside the US if they are over 10 dimes IN TOTAL? Further, if you consider neteller as valid then you have to include other sportsboks and pokersites? This is how I've heard others discussing their readings of this law/regulation in poker forums I follow...

**bigboydan** · 06-13-06, 01:34 AM

there always a sure fire way to avoid this problem. you guys can all go back to playing with your locals again

**SBR_John** · 06-13-06, 08:54 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't is ALL accounts outside the US if they are over 10 dimes IN TOTAL? Further, if you consider neteller as valid then you have to include other sportsboks and pokersites? This is how I've heard others discussing their readings of this law/regulation in poker forums I follow...

not sportsbooks, but yes every account, that had at one time during the year 10k.

**Tchocky** · 06-13-06, 11:55 AM

I'm willing to take the risk. Fcuk Uncle Sam! Has anyone here ever been busted for not reporting their activity?

**SBR_John** · 06-13-06, 12:32 PM

I'm willing to take the risk. Fcuk Uncle Sam! Has anyone here ever been busted for not reporting their activity?

Yes. Billy Scott, former owner of WWTS, was recently indicted on this charge.

But I dont think this is a charge they go throwing around on average Joe's.

If you have nothing to hide I can't imagine why one wouldn't file this form. The IRS has proven that they are grabbing offshore info and doing cross checks. It could trigger a needless audit and a huge fine.

PS- SBR has filed this form for many years without any problems.

**JoshW** · 06-13-06, 02:41 PM

John,

Appreciate the answer as I have asked this question many times on all forums and never got a very informed answer. I figure a lot of us have balances at NT that are over 10k sometime during the year many every day. If one is audited and they see NT money coming in and out, that is when I think you risk having your NT records actually looked at. And then is when they would catch the account.

Certainly a risk everyone has to consider.

**SBR_John** · 06-13-06, 09:12 PM

No doubt about it Laker! This is not a deal you can take the 5th on. Its quite a simple form. We have 5 offshore accounts and it took me 15 minutes to fill it out. Nothing to fear but fear itself!

**freebie** · 06-14-06, 12:37 AM

John,
Are you talking about 10K total in NT?

What if I win 1K and transfer to NT every month and then EFT that 1K back to my bank 10 times. Does that count as 10K total?

Just wanna make sure on this tax Shit.
Plus, where can I get that form to file?
And what exactly are the IRS looking at when I do file the form?

**SBR_John** · 06-14-06, 12:58 AM

Your balance HAS to be $10k or more on at least one day during the year and not just volume.

**rolemand** · 06-14-06, 10:21 AM

Here's a link for it. Not that it was hard to find but...

404 | Internal Revenue Service

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f9022-1.pdf

404

**tennis28** · 06-14-06, 10:38 AM

Ok, so obviously they're not going to slap a 500k charge on someone who makes 50k gambling in a year and say 30k at his part time job. Does anyone know what the actual penalty would be for hiding 50k in gambling winnings? Does anyone know of someone who has been caught for this?

**rolemand** · 06-14-06, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by tennis28

Ok, so obviously they're not going to slap a 500k charge on someone who makes 50k gambling in a year and say 30k at his part time job. Does anyone know what the actual penalty would be for hiding 50k in gambling winnings? Does anyone know of someone who has been caught for this?

that's a completely separate discussion. What you're asking about is the penalty for tax evasion?

The form TD F 90-22.1 is called Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts. All they want is for you to tell them you have a neteller account and what the account # is and the range of $ you had in there in the last year. (as best I can tell anyways)

I'm not to fond of giving out my neteller account #.

**Bullajami** · 06-14-06, 11:04 AM

I must be a little dense. I understand that US citizens are required to report gambling earnings - and I do. But why would the IRS be interested in a non-interest bearing account like Neteller? It's an asset, not a source of income. If I bury $10K in my backyard (after I've already paid taxes on it) I don't have to declare that again. Why is Neteller different?

I wouldn't even know which form to use to report that I have a Neteller account.

[Edit: unless I'd read the preceeding post before posting!]

**rolemand** · 06-14-06, 11:07 AM

It's not the IRS. It's the Treasury Department that's interested.

**tennis28** · 06-14-06, 11:52 AM

It seems lucky that they ask what your average amount is in your NT account throughout the year. This number should totally misrepresent someone's gambling income, as the money is usually dispersed between neteller and however many sbooks, poker sites, and casinos one is using at a given time.

Rolemond, I understand the difference now between not filling out the form and simple tax evasion. Thank you.

Please, if anyone has information on this, i'm curious what the penalty is for tax evasion, specifically relating to gambling income if its at all different.

thanks.

**SBR_John** · 06-14-06, 12:47 PM

Rolemond, I understand the difference now between not filling out the form and simple tax evasion. Thank you.

It would depend on how much money and other factors. I think generally you are looking at a fine for what is considered accidental. If it looks more like a deliberate cheat you are looking at 1-3 years in the crossbar hotel.

**tennis28** · 06-14-06, 01:17 PM

i just don't get it. if gambling online is technically illegal but the government doesn't/can't enforce the law, then why pay taxes on it. it's like paying an income tax on prostitution or drug trafficking. who would do that and how could the government enforce it without enforcing the illegality of the underlying action.

**SBR_John** · 06-14-06, 01:28 PM

tennis.. Gambling on the federal level is not illegal. Pay your taxes on your winnings, thats the only law of the USA. You will sleep better too.